| Improved on 12 months ago? 09:09 - Sep 30 with 1421 views | Poolman |
Thought your might like to see the team from 12 months ago when we got a 1-1 draw with Huddersfield (Angel was sent off)
01 Gilks
03 Robinson Booked
05 MacKenzie Booked
06 Broadfoot
20 Cathcart
11 Ince
12 Bishop Booked (Delfouneso - 64' )
15 Dobbie (Tyson - 76' )
17 Basham
31 Angel Dismissed after an earlier booking
19 Fuller Booked (Chopra - 90' )
Have we improved? For me Lewis is better than Gilks. I did prefer Robinson to Oriol but he is getting better. For me, Clarke and Donervan are a better pairing than McKenzie and Broadfoor whilst Cathcart was ultimately a better centre half than a right back where he's on a par with McMahon. Obviously Ince is better than anything we have and Dobbie would get in our team. Basham and Bishop are much of a muchness players whilst Angel had little form last year. Fuller is better than what we've got up front.
Looking at this other than for Ince, Dobbie and Fuller there's not much that I'd take from last season but the problem is we don't have an equivalent of those three players and this is what is letting us down. We need just those 2/3 quality players who can help us get those results. | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 09:39 - Sep 30 with 1407 views | BertandErnie |
Ince, Dobbie, Fuller and Cathcart would all walk in to this team and so undoubtedly weaker for me. | | | |
| Improved on 12 months ago? on 09:55 - Sep 30 with 1400 views | straightatthewall |
The current team is way off last years 11. You're also 'remembering' Mackenzie and Broadfoot based on their weakest performances rather than their strongest. For the first half of their partnership together - when Ince took over to around Yeovil - there were few who were slagging them off. If anything, they were getting praised for their stoic, 'thou shalt not pass' attitude. Cathcart and McMahon shouldn't be even mentioned in the same breath. One is a comfortable Championship defender, the other is a League 1 full back.
As a defensive midfielder, Basham is fine and as solid as the similar players we now have. Perkins is probably a little better than Bishop.
Ince, Dobbie and Fuller would stroll in.
There's no comparison whatsoever. Sorry. | |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 10:59 - Sep 30 with 1387 views | Seasider91 |
Well the style of football been played is certainly better and more pleasing to the eye than last season. | |
| "We shall take baby steps up the league" Ian Holloway in July 2009 |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 22:39 - Sep 30 with 1310 views | Bigbrother |
For me, I've not seen enough of these players and I don't think Riga has had enough time to get the best out of the players and the formations. It looks like he's getting there - even small tweaks like leaving some of the weaker players like Lundstram and Zoko out will start to improve the team and arguably better players will improve some of their team mates performances? | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 09:02 - Oct 1 with 1286 views | rigabeliever |
I think the point has been made earlier that our problem is that we don't have a 'stand out' player! Whatever you thought of Ince he was a game changer and someone the opposition feared and marked out of the game leaving space elsewhere - sadly we have no one in this current crop even close to that. | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 09:20 - Oct 1 with 1282 views | 20togo |
Like with any team compared to previous ones it's always likely to be a mix of both to find your best one.
Although the football is slow and predictable this season, at least they are trying to play the right way. Last season was nine men behind the balll at all times, even when we were attacking, and just hoof it forward.
So we've improved football wise, there's just not the quality of Ince and to a lesser degree Dobbie and Fuller. | | | |
| Improved on 12 months ago? on 16:43 - Oct 1 with 1264 views | ArchibaldKnox |
All last year's midfielders, and I include Neal Bishop, would be better than Lundstram. He really seems to have lost all confidence, and yet he has played in all our games. | | | |
| Improved on 12 months ago? on 16:55 - Oct 1 with 1257 views | basilrobbiereborn |
I think it's hard to call - results wise, no. But they are certainly playing better football (in the sense of being easy on the eye).
Looking at that side, the two CBs were on a slow slide, and Angel, Dobbie, Cathcart and Ince very wasteful of the talents they had. I'd rather have the current crop, personally. [Post edited 1 Oct 2014 17:10]
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 18:11 - Oct 1 with 1232 views | ArchibaldKnox |
'... Angel, Dobbie, Cathcart and Ince very wasteful of the talents they had...' ???
So why was that then ? Were they malingerers all ?
Or were there other reasons that you can put your finger on ? [Post edited 1 Oct 2014 18:16]
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 18:41 - Oct 1 with 1217 views | basilrobbiereborn |
It could have been a number of reasons. I'm just attempting to answer the question asked.
You seem very angry about something Archie. | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 18:50 - Oct 1 with 1214 views | ArchibaldKnox |
Nope, not angry at all. Just new to this board and its calm, cool environment perhaps.
Just asked if you could think of any reasons for so many players 'wasting their talent'.
It's fairly well accepted that to get to be a pro footballer, one must have shown a healthy competitive streak throughout one's formative years, as the winnowing out rate is very high.
So having got there, why would these footballers, and by your judgement, most of last year's BFC midfield, all suddenly decide to lose that attitude and 'waste their talent' ? Have you got any logically reasoned understanding that you may like to share? | | | |
| Improved on 12 months ago? on 19:02 - Oct 1 with 1205 views | basilrobbiereborn |
Well Archie, it could have been the way they were coached, or managed. In young Ince's case, it could have been that his father had a difficult conflict of interest to manage that he didn't cope with very well.
Or possibly the chairman was sending them subliminal messages through secrets speakers at Squires Gate. | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 19:13 - Oct 1 with 1203 views | straightatthewall |
Does adrian durham mind you taking his act?
Just to point out that at least 2 of the 4 you mentioned are clearly in a better position now than last season or if they'd stayed with us for this season.
It's fine to agree with the masses once in a while you know robbie, it doesn't make you weak. | |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 19:18 - Oct 1 with 1198 views | basilrobbiereborn |
SATW
I'm not sure what relevance "the masses" have. The OP asked a question, I tried to answer it by reference to some of the players involved.
In doing so I drew upon the experience of watching an entire season (at least, actually quite a bit more) of the former and eleven games of the latter.
You are allowed to have an opinion of your own, instead of just pulling apart those of others. It doesn't make YOU look weak either. | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 20:56 - Oct 1 with 1170 views | ArchibaldKnox |
>> You seem very angry about something Archie.
Well, that was a rather patronising welcome to the board, wasn't it, sonny?
But you are completely right about the Chairman's subliminal messages. Very perceptive of you.
Edit to say: You gave an explanation for young Tom, and I think that holds water. But it does not explain the wider loss of morale and loss of form for the players you listed. Your term 'wasteful of the talents they had' implies you mean it was a conscious choice they made. Why, then? [Post edited 1 Oct 2014 21:07]
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 21:53 - Oct 1 with 1150 views | basilrobbiereborn |
AK
who knows? I'm perplexed, for example, as to why Angel went from being a smashing player to someone who couldn't pass to a tangerine shirt overnight. I don't think it can be anything other than that he was unhappy with something, or had his mind on other things, but he wasn't playing to potential.
Cathcart was routinely slagged off by our support when he was in the team, but like a lot of others seems to have miraculously got a lot better since he left. I'm not convinced.
The two centre halves had a very good spell, but they were both struggling (and in the case of McKenzie, that is being charitable) by the season end. Gilkes had a pretty good season, but he wasn't infallible.
My main gripe with them was that they lay down and capitulated a number of times that season, Reading and Watford being the worst examples. I don't see that happening with this team as yet.
There you go, a fuller answer. I don't have to justify myself though, I just have an opinion like everyone else. | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 09:44 - Oct 2 with 1110 views | straightatthewall |
Robbie,
couldn't reply last night, but I can now and will pick up on a few things.
It was only the other day that you were telling us that you were 'unconvinced' by the manager. Yet this same unconvincing chap is the one who has brought together the rag tag and bobtail bunch and got them playing in a way that you prefer to last season's side. Something within that equation doesn't quite stack up for me.
Your defence of your view is incredibly selective (when in Rome I suppose) and to be frank, whether you've viewed them a couple of times or consistently some things stand out very quickly. Such as Perkins commendable work rate and energy, but also his lack of consistent quality on the ball or Delfounso's obvious lack of a true position - neither a winger, a striker or a 'hole' player.
We have now, what we had in the second half of last season; a group of players where too many are at a level higher than their ability can carry them. Fine if supporting others of higher quality. But we simply don't have those players either. They work manfully and with passion, but that has never been enough. The facts tell you their own story. No wins, only 5 goals scored and never scoring more than 1 goal per game. If that isn't a sign of a lack of quality, then I don't know what is.
I'd also have to take issue with the comment that Cathcart was routinely slagged off. Now, I'm not going to pretend there weren't critics - it's the same for any player - but he certainly wasn't a target for the boo-boys in the way someone like Ben Burgess or Adrian Forbes had been. Most could see that while he was made of too brittle a substance at times, he was a good quality footballer that would be the best player in our current defence.
As for having opinions of my own, I think i state them pretty clearly most days. At present, my opinion is that you're posting some pretty laughable comments probably to try and get some better discussion going on this site. Which for all the haughty talk of being above some of the undoubtedly nasty stuff on the old board, is still lagging way way behind when it comes to real debate. Which, incidentally, is still very much alive and well on the other site if you know where to look for it.
And you DO have to justify yourself. That's what stating an opinion on a discussion board is all about. Or did the Cambridge debating society just allow people to make an endless series of statements without the facts to back them up? I doubt you'd allow anyone else to not justify themselves, so why not you?
I admire your ability to try and see past the shite and focus on the pitch. I can also agree that the spirit of this side is currently to be admired and it's good to see slow, but obvious progress being made. We're in baby steps mode because of the complete farce of the last 2 seasons. If I'm being totally charitable, I'll say that should we keep the nucleus of the side for the next 2 seasons, then by May 2016, we may be in reasonable shape. We'll almost certainly be in League 1, but we may have a team that finishes that season with pride and rewards.
Bearish on my part, I accept. But I don't really think anyone can truly say much else when you really stop to analyse the overall ability of the squad at present.
And if I seem overly aggressive in my opinions at present, it's because I want total unity in the supporting ranks. I want everyone to see, what I see. I appreciate that won't happen and at times I should just step away and let it be. But I want the club to be better than it currently is and standing idly by and pretending we're on the way to something better just seems wrong to me.
Right, I'm off to pack for my Petrochemical sojourn in Vienna. Which, ironically, means nothing to me...... | |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 11:14 - Oct 2 with 1096 views | basilrobbiereborn |
SATW
thanks for the full and considered reply.
First of all - I see no inconsistency in having reservations about this manager and yet thinking we are playing better football than we were last season. The two points of view are NOT mutually exclusive, and I know that you understand that perfectly well.
Secondly, I suppose i AM selective sometimes in what I choose to defend, but I do get a lot of shit flung my way and in my opinions, a lot of it doesn't deserve a response. As it happens, I tend to agree with you about Delfouneso, who has been a crashing disappointment, but not about Perkins. Seen through the eyes of the opposition, he's a pest, and I think you are one of many who underestimate the value of that.
I also think that some of the comparisons you make with last season are valid, especially about the lack of star quality in the side. But I also stand by my view that last season we had a number of better quality players who simply were not performing to their potential. I'm not going to get into the who slagged off who debate, except to say that Cathcart was - along with Southern and GTF - someone who was routinely criticised even through the glory years. I remember it, even if you don't.
As for your wider remarks, I'm afraid I'm one of those old-fashioned people who will make my own mind up about things, and in doing so, how strongly YOU feel about the rightness of YOUR arguments is- frankly - completely irrelevant. You say you want unity, but what you really mean is that you want unity on your terms. That is something that doesn't quite stack up for me, you might say.
As for justifying myself in debate, I'd defend my record when it comes to offering evidence to back up arguments - I've been doing it on this site and others for fifteen years or so. Let's not forget that this particular argument started because I offered an answer to the OP and then you and others decided to make an issue of it. How that places me under an obligation to explain myself to you or anyone else I don't really know. And if you think my views laughable - well that's your prerogative. It's also my prerogative to place only limited value on the opinions of people who hardly ever watch us but are prolific in offering us their take on what they haven't and don't actually see.
As for the debate on the old site, yes, I know it's there, and some of it is, as you say, very interesting and worth following. But the place is also packed these days with hateful, hate-filled people who seem to think that they have the right to tell others how and when to support their football team ; even to the extent of trying to bully and intimidate anyone who argues back. FansOnLine have a lot to answer for, inviting some of them back on site when they had been banned for very good reasons.
Enjoy Vienna. And shaddappayourface.  | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 12:26 - Oct 2 with 1072 views | 20togo |
Some good posts.
I'll only comment on the Cathcart issue. Don't believe he was ever widely criticised. Just that in his early years with us he wasprone to lack of concentration leading to mistakes. But certainly he was a decent player. When fit. | | | |
| Improved on 12 months ago? on 12:07 - Oct 3 with 1006 views | TwoPhillips |
Owen Oyston clearly thinks so - he reckons we'll be play off contenders  | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 22:27 - Oct 4 with 935 views | steve_g |
I would say you have to compare the end of last season with this for the true picture .,
So if you look at how we ended against Charlton
01 Gilks - LEWIS
02 McMahon - McMahon
14 Halliday - ORIOL
18 Osbourne - CUBERO
35 McGahey - DANIELS
20 Cathcart - CLARKE
17 Basham - FONZ
04 Perkins - PERKINS
24 Keogh - Miller
33 DOBBIE - Ranger
12 Bishop - ANYONE
Other than Dobbie would anyone disagree we now have a stronger side? | |
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| Improved on 12 months ago? on 10:16 - Oct 5 with 921 views | Orioltwins |
Interesting you say Dobbie is the only player that's better from last season - he's exactly the sort of player we need now! For me, we have plenty of muscle up front but lack that player with an eye for goal. Will never understand how KO let him go - had he have kept McGahey, Angel and Dobbie whilst we had no manager he could have avoided so much of the current flack. | |
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