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Someone phone Ronaldo (slim) and tell him he can go back to the sand, as Messi has finished with the desert!
Of the two, I always thought Messi the better player, and nicer bloke too. But in terms of GOAT, it’s impossible to definitively decide. Pele (probably for me) made football post-war. He played on crap pitches, with balls and boots that weighed a ton and, like Maradona, at a time when they had lumps kicked out of them every game. Those two playing in the modern era of conditioning, better nutrition, rule changes and ref protection would still be phenomenal. Maybe more so.
As exceptional as Ronaldo (slim) was, never a doubt when comparing with Messi as to who was better. For me, the latter nudges ahead of Maradona and stands next to Pele in the debate.
But I wonder: if ‘Messi’ was born in Rotherham, would little Leonard Messithorpe have turned out to be the genius his Argentine comparator has? And, what if such a genius was unearthed in Rotherham today, would we turn out a candidate for GOAT or not?
For I cannot help but wonder if Best and Gazza started out in any other country, would they have turned out differently?
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Pele, Maradona and Messi. It’s the three of them at the top table in any order. The likes of De Stefano, Cruyff, Best, Brazilian Ronaldo etc just behind.
It’s too difficult to compare different eras. Maradona probably reached the highest heights between the mid 80’s and 1990 winning the World Cup and two league titles with Napoli. But Messi has been doing this consistently for 15+ years and to finally win the World Cup at 35 years old. Wow.
Easy to forget that Messi /Argentina lost three finals in a row between 2014 to 2016, two of them on penalties. Messi’s Argentina career was dead and buried. His obituaries had been written. Now they’ve won a Copa America and World Cup final back to back. Incredible and I doubt we’ll ever see something like this again.
I was too young to watch Pele but his World Cup and goal scoring records tell a story. He’ll forever be part of the conversation.
I can see arguments for any of the big three. It probably depends to an extent upon the era you watched most of your football. I’ve watched Messi since he was a youngster making his Barcelona debut. I started watching La Liga religiously on Sky purely to see what Messi would do next, more often than not laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. I made a football pilgrimage to Camp Nou purely to see him in the flesh. I doubt I’ll ever follow a footballer to this extent again so my judgment is probably biased but I’m forever grateful for the moments Messi has given to me as a football fan. Gracias, Leo.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2022 8:57]
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(No subject) (n/t) on 08:45 - Dec 19 with 4349 views
I'm not sure there's a correct answer to the Greatest of all Time. I think it's impossible to compare accurately across the generations. To my mind, there's little doubt that Messi is the best of this generation, but I didn't think there was any doubt about that anyway.
Delighted to see him get his World Cup. One of the sporting highlights of my life to witness his career, and now to see it rewarded with the ultimate prize. Justice.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
I'm not sure there's a correct answer to the Greatest of all Time. I think it's impossible to compare accurately across the generations. To my mind, there's little doubt that Messi is the best of this generation, but I didn't think there was any doubt about that anyway.
Delighted to see him get his World Cup. One of the sporting highlights of my life to witness his career, and now to see it rewarded with the ultimate prize. Justice.
Difficult indeed for lesser mortals, but surely not you Brian!
But when you weigh up all the variables down the decades, I think this generation of candidates would have more ‘adjusting’ to the variables at play in their predecessors’ eras. I couldn’t see Messi and certainly not Ronaldo (slim) coping as well with football played between the 50s and 80s, as Pele and Maradona to the 90s and 20s.
As several of us have mentioned, Pele and Maradona doing it in their eras while being subjected to violent thuggery makes their cases extremely compelling. I once saw a video of tackles on Maradona that was horrific. Alas, the one game where he should have had a battering, Shilton was too slow and Fenwick already on a yellow!
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Maradonna was incredible for 5/6 years but for me is tainted by the end of his career the failed drugs tests and his club career fading away. Messi has been outstanding for nearly 20 years and won everything so is the best I've personally ever seen.
Been a pleasure to watch them both though really and do feel Ronaldo is not far behind, had a very tough year with the loss of his baby and his career going down the pan but has been an outstanding player for the last 2 decades.
Difficult indeed for lesser mortals, but surely not you Brian!
But when you weigh up all the variables down the decades, I think this generation of candidates would have more ‘adjusting’ to the variables at play in their predecessors’ eras. I couldn’t see Messi and certainly not Ronaldo (slim) coping as well with football played between the 50s and 80s, as Pele and Maradona to the 90s and 20s.
As several of us have mentioned, Pele and Maradona doing it in their eras while being subjected to violent thuggery makes their cases extremely compelling. I once saw a video of tackles on Maradona that was horrific. Alas, the one game where he should have had a battering, Shilton was too slow and Fenwick already on a yellow!
Ooh, you ol' charmer!
I don't remember Pele playing, and I really didn't see enough of Maradonna in his brief prime because at the time my obsession was English football.
I think the kicking thing is sometimes overplayed, though - Messi got kicked plenty, too, and didnt make a meal of it either.
Cristiano really doesn't belong in this conversation, imo. Just not at the same level, and never was.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
I think that it is impossible to compare throughout the different eras, as we will all be seduced by the players that were around when we were at our most impressionable.
My individual vote would be for Alfredo Di Stefano, but that may be because Nandor Hidegkuti was before my days of memory. This was the player who made the Hungarians of the early 50's so great & Puskas had to play second fiddle to him.
In my head I would rate Maradonna as the best since Pele, but my heart would still place Cryuff and Georgi Asparuhov above him!
I'm too young for Pele (or George Best), so always thought Diego was the greatest player I've ever seen. Literally won the WC single-handed, and as others have said above, won the title in the world's best league at the time with an unfashionable club twice.
Messi has obviously been more consistently great for a longer time and has now matched him with a WC. But it's worth remembering that he was in a much better team than Diego (Barca) full of great players.
Plus, Diego is the archetypical tortured genius and his vices arguably make him even more magnificent. For every WC 86, there's WC 94 and his coke-addled snarl down the camera - Scarface playing top-level international football. There's a pathos to his story that the phenomenal consistency of Messi can never attain, which will always appeal to a certain type of person.
Saw Messi live once - didn’t stand out Saw Ronaldo (adams apple) twice - fairly average
So for me the greatest player I ever saw has to be Adel I missed out on Stan and only saw Gazza a few times.
In terms of career accomplishments then I suppose Messi gets it but I’d still go Pele
Same here.
I went to see Barce play with a mate I used to sit with at QPR. Sat in the bar for pre-game cervezas, the recurring comment was: how many times had we seen rubbish Rangers performances over the years and said, wouldn’t it be wonderful to turn up in full expectation of a great display from the team and performances from Messi and his chums, Neymar and Suarez.
Instead, we got a day when Barce fans got the Rangers experience, withering defeat, and the Tres Amigos put in performances akin to Malcolm, Nygaard, and Slade!
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Ronaldo has soured his reputation with his petulance and “it’s all bout me attitude” also he has t won a World Cup, in my lifetime I say Maradona edges it slightly over pele.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
In all my years of watching football I have not seen a player as good as Messi, I have seen Pele , Best Maradona etc but Messi for me is the greatest not only for his goal scoring but for the assists and how he affects games
I'm old enough to have seen Pele play and he's still the GOAT. Got kicked out of the 1966 World Cup, but came back to play a blinder in 1970.
Messi better than Ronaldo definitely, although CR7 is an athlete anybody could aspire to be.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop
Football a lot of the time is about emotion, and Messi gives me the most joy. This WC rekindled that.
From the more robotic parameters I don’t think anyone from before the last twenty should be considered. The fitness of players now would blow them all the way.
I’m certain a League Two team would have beaten that 1970 Brazil side, especially after 60 minutes. Which side gives your the most joy though?
There was a thread about Macca the other day. Was he my favourite / best defender of my lifetime? Yes.
Would he make it today? No, I don’t think he would.
This just in from the Defenders' Union: v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v
Right up there.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I’ve been a massive Messi fan right from the beginning. The man is a joy to watch and if he hadn’t been around for the past couple of decades football would’ve been a much poorer thing for it. But Maradonna still shades it for me.
As said I don’t think you can dismiss the on-pitch ultra-violence that was frequently dished out to Diego M. I’m sure Messi was given a hard time now and then but nowhere near what went on in the 80s when Maradonna roamed the turf.
Another factor, Messi has generally played in teams of other (admittedly lesser) galacticos whereas THOG sometimes found himself in a few somewhat ordinary line-ups, most notably the Napoli side that he buccaneered to a Serie A title. Taking nothing away from Messi but Maradonna’s achievements and performances took place in harsher and more difficult circumstances. And let’s not discount the hair.
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