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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:08 - Apr 17 by A40Bosh
"Turns out the 10 year old boy killed, along with so many other children, was a cousin of Gerrards. The point is compassion for those that lost loved ones at the football and were subsequently smeared by the filth and there political paymasters, does not let Pool off the hook for Heysel, who have blamed the wall, the state of the stadium, policing and the Italians, everyone but there own supporters ultimately. But you cant confuse the two as the same."...........................
This is a valid point, and the problem is that many will lump "the 96" into a single generic "Liverpool" entity and then associate that entity with Heysel, but the lives lost were those of individuals and the effects of Hillsborough touched the lives of many people far outside of the city. What happened at Heysel was clearly very wrong but it cannot be justified to use it to counter argument for the sympathy for the 96. The families of the 96 left to pick up the pieces of their lives, then had to further suffer the results of the blatant cover up and tarnishing of their lost ones reputation as if being a Liverpool "supporter" at that match automatically meant you contributed to your own doom because you must have been a drunken hooligan. There is no correlation between the two events because it was individuals involved in both tragedies not a single entity call The Pool .
One example.....
Body 27 was in my class all the way through secondary school. I did not get the grades needed to do History at Sheffield, but he did get the grades to get there.
Yes, Body 27 was a 21 year old Liverpool Fan - his crime? - He happened to be an Ealing-born Liverpool fan who picked Sheffield University for his degree in Economics and it probably made sense to go to that game as it was on his doorstep.
Body 27 was left on the pitch until a copper came across him and put him on a hoarding and carried him off to a make shift morgue making the assumption he must already be dead because he was blue in the face and did not appear to be breathing. The 21 year old copper who carried him off the pitch did not know what he was supposed to be doing.
The parents of Body 27 got a phone call from their oldest son at 5am the next morning in Turkey where they were on holiday to say that his brother was one of the dead.
The father of body 27 had to catch the first flight back to LHR and then get to Sheffield to a morgue to identify the body of Body 27.
The father of Body 27 looked a wreck at the funeral but his grief took too much of a toll on his heart and he dropped down dead in the street in Ealing around the time of the 1st year anniversary.
The family of body 27 are still pondering to this day what might have been if the organisations and services charged with hosting a large scale football match had actually put as much effort into doing their jobs properly as they did in covering up for their inadequacies .
The family of body 27 are still pondering to this day why so many Liverpool fans were able to gain entry into Hillsborough without tickets or with fakes.
It was a tragedy, yes, and the authorities have a lot to answer for but I don't but into the theory that Liverpool fans were utterly blameless. Heysel is relevant because it further highlights Liverpool's refusal to accept responsibility for a tragedy they caused.
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:54 - Apr 17 with 1526 views
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:45 - Apr 17 by RangersAreBack
The family of body 27 are still pondering to this day why so many Liverpool fans were able to gain entry into Hillsborough without tickets or with fakes.
It was a tragedy, yes, and the authorities have a lot to answer for but I don't but into the theory that Liverpool fans were utterly blameless. Heysel is relevant because it further highlights Liverpool's refusal to accept responsibility for a tragedy they caused.
"Heysel is relevant because it further highlights Liverpool's refusal to accept responsibility for a tragedy they caused"
They have a memorial for the Heysel dead within Anfield. That and their traetment of their Champions League meeting of 2005 would indicate to me that they have completetly accepted responsibility.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:45 - Apr 17 by RangersAreBack
The family of body 27 are still pondering to this day why so many Liverpool fans were able to gain entry into Hillsborough without tickets or with fakes.
It was a tragedy, yes, and the authorities have a lot to answer for but I don't but into the theory that Liverpool fans were utterly blameless. Heysel is relevant because it further highlights Liverpool's refusal to accept responsibility for a tragedy they caused.
and that is a nutshell is why they are still fighting for justice as people still want to believe that it was ticketless fans who caused the problem when it's now been proved that wasn't the case.
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:54 - Apr 17 by BrianMcCarthy
"Heysel is relevant because it further highlights Liverpool's refusal to accept responsibility for a tragedy they caused"
They have a memorial for the Heysel dead within Anfield. That and their traetment of their Champions League meeting of 2005 would indicate to me that they have completetly accepted responsibility.
Not according to Juventus fans.
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:13 - Apr 17 with 1488 views
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:57 - Apr 17 by daveB
and that is a nutshell is why they are still fighting for justice as people still want to believe that it was ticketless fans who caused the problem when it's now been proved that wasn't the case.
It was part of the problem but many Liverpool fans refuse to acknowledge it. Fight for justice, by all means, but accept your share of the responsibility, no matter how small.
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:15 - Apr 17 with 1483 views
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:13 - Apr 17 by RangersAreBack
It was part of the problem but many Liverpool fans refuse to acknowledge it. Fight for justice, by all means, but accept your share of the responsibility, no matter how small.
But WHO should accept WHOSE share of the responsibility? How can dead people and the family of dead people who had bought legal tickets take responsibility for getting killed in a horrific accident.
It's back to the whole lump them together into a single entity argument. How can Liverpool as an entity be to blame for the actions of individuals at either disaster. Yes, there are a small minority who rioted at Heysel, but they like those who died at both disasters are individuals. There is no group culpability outside of a "group" of fans who may have acted as a "firm" and instigated the fighting.
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:20 - Apr 17 by A40Bosh
But WHO should accept WHOSE share of the responsibility? How can dead people and the family of dead people who had bought legal tickets take responsibility for getting killed in a horrific accident.
It's back to the whole lump them together into a single entity argument. How can Liverpool as an entity be to blame for the actions of individuals at either disaster. Yes, there are a small minority who rioted at Heysel, but they like those who died at both disasters are individuals. There is no group culpability outside of a "group" of fans who may have acted as a "firm" and instigated the fighting.
They needn't take responsibility, just acknowledge that some Liverpool fans contributed towards the tragedy instead of conveniently trying to pass all blame on the authorities.
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:39 - Apr 17 with 1440 views
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:20 - Apr 17 by A40Bosh
But WHO should accept WHOSE share of the responsibility? How can dead people and the family of dead people who had bought legal tickets take responsibility for getting killed in a horrific accident.
It's back to the whole lump them together into a single entity argument. How can Liverpool as an entity be to blame for the actions of individuals at either disaster. Yes, there are a small minority who rioted at Heysel, but they like those who died at both disasters are individuals. There is no group culpability outside of a "group" of fans who may have acted as a "firm" and instigated the fighting.
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 14:57 - Apr 17 by daveB
and that is a nutshell is why they are still fighting for justice as people still want to believe that it was ticketless fans who caused the problem when it's now been proved that wasn't the case.
Has it been proved ?
As far as i have seen all that has been proved is the police lied and covered up there errors on the day, the FA made big errors on the day and Sheff Wed made big errors and as such there will be arrests made, and rightly so. . As Liverpool and there fans have NEVER excepted any responsibility in any shape or form there was not an enquiry made by Liverpool FC if there own fans were to blame as was said in the media they just refused to except that, end of.
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:59 - Apr 17 with 1411 views
they have history and were doing this type of thing
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 16:16 - Apr 17 with 1391 views
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 15:26 - Apr 17 by RangersAreBack
They needn't take responsibility, just acknowledge that some Liverpool fans contributed towards the tragedy instead of conveniently trying to pass all blame on the authorities.
They have done, RAB, they've erected a memorial and included in their history a large section on the day and their culpability in it.
As Bosh says, this is not one group who make one collective. It's made up of may constituents and millions of individuals. The club for their part acted honourably, I feel.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 16:16 - Apr 17 by BrianMcCarthy
They have done, RAB, they've erected a memorial and included in their history a large section on the day and their culpability in it.
As Bosh says, this is not one group who make one collective. It's made up of may constituents and millions of individuals. The club for their part acted honourably, I feel.
But it took the guy who was in charge of the Hillsborough memorial to suggest a memorial for those fans that died at Heysal. Would there have been a Heysal memorial if Hillsborough did not happen ?
In 2000 the city of Liverpool officially commemorated the anniversary of Heysel for the first time — on the suggestion, incidentally, of Peter Millea, the chairman of Liverpool City Council’s Hillsborough disaster working party
Why was there not one before ??
[Post edited 17 Apr 2014 16:25]
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 16:24 - Apr 17 with 1369 views
Hillsborough was terrible, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to go on about it too much. It has had more enquiries than pretty much any incident in the history of Britain. Even the world wars didn't have as much time and effort put into finding out what started them as Hillsborough.
They will continue searching for "justice", but more has come out about the whole thing than any other comparable incident. You're never going to get exactly what happened in every detail because it was so chaotic and a long time ago now.
Heysel hasn't had anywhere near the effort put into it into finding out what happened and who was to blame. Hillsborough was partly a result of police negligence, whereas Heysel was worse as it was caused by Liverpool supporters actually trying to do harm to the Juventus supporters.
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Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 16:33 - Apr 17 with 1356 views
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 16:21 - Apr 17 by QPR1882
But it took the guy who was in charge of the Hillsborough memorial to suggest a memorial for those fans that died at Heysal. Would there have been a Heysal memorial if Hillsborough did not happen ?
In 2000 the city of Liverpool officially commemorated the anniversary of Heysel for the first time — on the suggestion, incidentally, of Peter Millea, the chairman of Liverpool City Council’s Hillsborough disaster working party
Why was there not one before ??
[Post edited 17 Apr 2014 16:25]
I don't know who or how many people suggested it. I know they built it in their memory, I think it's decent and it's honourable. And I am glad that they have accepted responsibility publicly as a club.
I see no point in arguing on this, as I find that Heysel and Hillsborough are not overtly linked, except to say that the cages at Hillsborough were as a result of the thuggishness of hooligans of all clubs, ours included. Beyond that, I find any attempt to deny justice for the Hillsborough dead solely because different fans of the same club misbehaved on a a prior occasion to be devoid of compassion and respect.
I'll say it again, if it was my son or daughter, or any of you, whose lifeless body was welded to a cage and whose memory was being tarnished by lies and corruption, they wouldn't shut me up until I too took my last breath.
I couldn't respect them more.
[Post edited 17 Apr 2014 16:35]
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Is It Wrong to Want Liverpool to Win the Title in View of Hillsborough on 16:33 - Apr 17 by BrianMcCarthy
I don't know who or how many people suggested it. I know they built it in their memory, I think it's decent and it's honourable. And I am glad that they have accepted responsibility publicly as a club.
I see no point in arguing on this, as I find that Heysel and Hillsborough are not overtly linked, except to say that the cages at Hillsborough were as a result of the thuggishness of hooligans of all clubs, ours included. Beyond that, I find any attempt to deny justice for the Hillsborough dead solely because different fans of the same club misbehaved on a a prior occasion to be devoid of compassion and respect.
I'll say it again, if it was my son or daughter, or any of you, whose lifeless body was welded to a cage and whose memory was being tarnished by lies and corruption, they wouldn't shut me up until I too took my last breath.
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