| Is Britain a Christian Country? 15:04 - Apr 23 with 3952 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I've been following this debate with interest, but I'm no wiser for all that I've read. The debate seems to be about whether Britain feels Christian, or has a majority of Christians.
Do any of you wise souls know if Britain is actually Christian by definition ie is Britain constitutionally a theocracy? Or, like other Countries, does its constitutuon recognise God in some other way other than as its divine leader? Or has theology nop part at all in Britain's constitution apart from shared roles by the British Queen and some peers.
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 17:51 - Apr 23 with 785 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 17:39 - Apr 23 by izlingtonhoop |
I would guess that most theocratic states ban and/or punish beliefs - or lack thereof - which is clearly not the case in the UK.
This is from the Wiki article on the British Constitution:
Church of England
The Church of England is the established church in England (i.e., not in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland). The Monarch is ex officio Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and is required by the Act of Settlement 1701 to "join in communion with the Church of England". As part of the coronation ceremony, the Monarch swears an oath to "maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England" before being crowned by the senior cleric of the Church, the Archbishop of Canterbury — a similar oath concerning the established Church of Scotland, which is a Presbyterian church, having already been given by the new Monarch in his or her Accession Council. All clergy of the Church swear an oath of allegiance to the Monarch before taking office.
Parliament retains authority to pass laws regulating the Church of England. In practice, much of this authority is delegated to the Church's General Synod. The appointment of bishops and archbishops of the Church falls within the royal prerogative. In current practice, the Prime Minister makes the choice from two candidates submitted by a commission of prominent Church members, then passes his choice on to the Monarch. The Prime Minister plays this role even though he himself is not required to be a member of the Church of England or even a Christian–for example Clement Attlee was an agnostic who described himself as "incapable of religious feeling".[23]
Unlike many nations in continental Europe, the United Kingdom does not directly fund the established church with public money (although many publicly funded voluntary aided schools are run by religious foundations, including those of the Church of England). Instead, the Church of England relies on donations, land and investments.
Does it help? |
It does, Izlington. Thanks.
Where Ireland is still held back (in my own humble opinion, of course) is that, in contrast to your piece, most of our schools are still vested in the catholic church. Control their minds and their bodies will follow! | |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 17:57 - Apr 23 with 774 views | Aunt_Nelly |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 17:45 - Apr 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
Hey, the no snakes thing is pretty damn good! I'm no fan of them snakes.
I'm no fan of christianity either, mind you. It's caused us nothing but problems that I can see. Ireland has never beenn christian though, to answer your question, which makes the catholic church's succesful coup d'etat in the period from the late 20's to the early 40's all the more remarkable.
As you say, Ireland was always secular, and hugely for a large part of our history. My grandparents remembered a more secular and bohemian age, certainly piety was at a minimum, humour was ripe and where christianity had a part to play in the customs of the people there was certainly none of the submissiveness before the Vatican that was to sadly follow. Women got the vote alongside their male citizens when the Free State was formed in 1922, women were in many ways more powerful than men in the Irish family. The catholic church soon trod them down in the most horrendous way. Similarly, children were to suffer in silence, in dreadful silence, due to the arch-conservatism of the early-twentieth century making them voiceless and sub-human. Their protests might have been listened to had society not robbed them of the confidence to speak up.
On the constitutional front, Ireland does not proclaim itself to be a christian country. All of its powers are reserved for the people, none for a church or for any agents of a church. So it is secular in its entirity.
There is only one mention of God in the Constitution proper (which God is not specified but we can presume it's the christian one) and that is when it states that the "powers derive from the people, under God" before swiftly establishing that the powers belong to the people and not to the christian God, or any God.
So, I would say that socially, morally, culturally, Ireland is not a christian country. More importantly, it is not legally theocratic but firmly and inarguably secular. Thank God!
Oh, and sorry about the English/British thing. I try not to make that mistake but Cameron was talking aboput Britain and that got me confused. |
That's really interesting. I presumed that christianity was far more integral in Ireland's politics and law. I probably based it on the country's stance on abortion. |  | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:23 - Apr 23 with 750 views | TheBlob |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 17:45 - Apr 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
Hey, the no snakes thing is pretty damn good! I'm no fan of them snakes.
I'm no fan of christianity either, mind you. It's caused us nothing but problems that I can see. Ireland has never beenn christian though, to answer your question, which makes the catholic church's succesful coup d'etat in the period from the late 20's to the early 40's all the more remarkable.
As you say, Ireland was always secular, and hugely for a large part of our history. My grandparents remembered a more secular and bohemian age, certainly piety was at a minimum, humour was ripe and where christianity had a part to play in the customs of the people there was certainly none of the submissiveness before the Vatican that was to sadly follow. Women got the vote alongside their male citizens when the Free State was formed in 1922, women were in many ways more powerful than men in the Irish family. The catholic church soon trod them down in the most horrendous way. Similarly, children were to suffer in silence, in dreadful silence, due to the arch-conservatism of the early-twentieth century making them voiceless and sub-human. Their protests might have been listened to had society not robbed them of the confidence to speak up.
On the constitutional front, Ireland does not proclaim itself to be a christian country. All of its powers are reserved for the people, none for a church or for any agents of a church. So it is secular in its entirity.
There is only one mention of God in the Constitution proper (which God is not specified but we can presume it's the christian one) and that is when it states that the "powers derive from the people, under God" before swiftly establishing that the powers belong to the people and not to the christian God, or any God.
So, I would say that socially, morally, culturally, Ireland is not a christian country. More importantly, it is not legally theocratic but firmly and inarguably secular. Thank God!
Oh, and sorry about the English/British thing. I try not to make that mistake but Cameron was talking aboput Britain and that got me confused. |
Very enlightening Brian,thanks for that.
I know that matters were divisive when I visited your fair country back in the day when Protestants and Catholics walked on different sides of the street.But then that was Co.Kerry.
But then that's Christianity,the aggressive absorbtion and the institution of monstrous guilt via Original Sin and other goodies.Whereas the "pagan" faiths seemed to be relatively existentialist and you could have more of the pleasures of the flesh.
Cameron is an ignorant prat btw,less direction than a weather vane. |  |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 with 738 views | HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |  |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:39 - Apr 23 with 732 views | TheBlob |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 by HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |
Well at least it'll get rid of Ant & Dec. | |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:45 - Apr 23 with 732 views | danehoop |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 by HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |
Ahh, Holloway, As reliable as the average Daily Mail reader and only slightly less convincing. Love your statistical extrapolations, about as accurate as the ones used by UKIP. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:49 - Apr 23 with 729 views | exiled_dictator |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 by HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |
Blimey Holloway!
You sound just like the front page of the Daily Mail!
Only with considerably less intelligence.
Halal meat - why not? You get to eat pork. Jews have Kosher meat. Vegetarians can choose broccoli or cabbage. So why can't I buy, serve & sell halal meat? Nobody in my restaurant has ever complained of me serving them it.
Sharia Law - the wonderful stick invented to beat us with. Tell me, where in Britain does Sharia Law exist instead of or even next to British Law? The answer is it doesn't. Just because one or two (and it is only just one or two) extreme Muslims demand it, does not mean that the other 99.8% of us want it or want you to live under it either. Myth Busted.
Muslim Schools - Yes they do exist, just as Catholic, Jewish & Montessori ones do too. I don't want you to go to them, and contrary to popular belief, they follow the British curriculum. The ones that the Daily Mail report are in the very minority. They teach children to live in a tolerant society that accepts all. They are not Madras Schools. Myth Busted.
Second largest religion. Err, someone has to be? And just because we have more children that the average British couple do, does that make us the New Catholics?
You are a xenophobe of the highest order.
And an even bigger fool for spreading rubbish masked as truth.
I say again, the very majority of Muslims in this country want to live in peace & quiet amongst the locals. Getting on with their lives & education. Bringing up their children. Understanding the local community & culture, but wanting to keep our own too.
Do you really believe that all Muslims are Abu Hamza or Anjem Choudhry or those two converts who killed Lee Rigby? |  |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:02 - Apr 23 with 704 views | Discodroid |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 by HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |
dont bother holloway..i find this aint a bad message board with decent people if you knock the politics...the 'daily mail' shit that gets flung about on here is tiresome as it is predictable. were bigots, remember ?, gordon brown said so.
i'll stick to rangers and music with the lads on here..and for politics there's the old ballot box to register our vote, coming up on may the 22nd.
with the greatest of respect, lets see where we are on the 23rd..ed , dave and clegg may be in for a shock imho. [Post edited 23 Apr 2014 19:12]
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| " I guess in four or five years, the new generation's music will be .. electronics, tapes. I can kind of envision .. maybe one person .. with a lot of machines, tapes, and electronics setups, singin or speaking .. and using machines " James Douglas Morrison | 1969 |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:06 - Apr 23 with 706 views | THEBUSH |
To the op's question, my opinion is, that's it's down to ones own beliefs.
As far as I can see, we can choose whatever we want to be, although we have to accept that parliament and the house of lords is based upon some form of christianity !! |  | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:13 - Apr 23 with 683 views | Jigsore |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 by HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |
wow, that's impressive. Does Rupert Murdoch just press a large button at his desk and you automatically bark that out word for word? or has the constant barrage of scare tactics just slowly diffused into your brain until saturation point and this is just the spillover
it's always them and us with you people. We're living in completely different realities, I swear. |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:21 - Apr 23 with 664 views | HollowayRanger |
question was is this still a christian country?
never said a thing about lee rigby or murdering terriosts or anything of the like
but hey ho because i highlight things ........im a racist!
hala meat id like the choice NOT to eat it something our kids dont have anymore
sharia law http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-Brit
muslim schools doing well in birmingham not!
as for the rising population ? seems more crowded to me
still im sure theres room for everyone | |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:27 - Apr 23 with 656 views | Lblock |
As a force fed Catholic I stopped practicing religion at about 16 years old (and for a few years then it was just Xmas mass)... now I'd agree religion is the root of all evil
BUT! This country had Christian values as a bedrock for years. Those Christian values were grabbed by those who saw it as a meal ticket, diluted and now all but expunged. Now the place is fook'd.
Even when I did wrong as a young un (or now) I knew the limits and knew the consequences; now there's no morals.
It's a grab grab grab society from the bottom up and top down
HOWEVER... if there is a God out there I'll be praying to him for the first 3 weeks in May that we win the play offs and Old Jerky wheels is entourage off to Sandbanks pronto thereafter
Jesus is a Rangers fan... Jesus is a Rangers fan.. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:27 - Apr 23 with 659 views | Maggsinho |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:13 - Apr 23 by Jigsore |
wow, that's impressive. Does Rupert Murdoch just press a large button at his desk and you automatically bark that out word for word? or has the constant barrage of scare tactics just slowly diffused into your brain until saturation point and this is just the spillover
it's always them and us with you people. We're living in completely different realities, I swear. |
It's not even from the Daily Mail, it appears to be from something called The Commentator whatever that is, that is liberally sprinkled with anti Islamic commentary. |  | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 19:32 - Apr 23 with 652 views | derbyhoop |
Constitutionally, the UK is a Christian country.
Statistically, the last census had about 60% stating that they were Christian, so yes on that point too.
In practise, we're largely a secular country. The average attendance at a Christian church is only about 800,000 per week. How many professed Christians have gone to church this year?
Do we, despite the secularity, display Christian values. Probably. But they aren't unique to Christianity. Nearly all religions teach their followers to look out for and care for those less fortunate. Including Islam.
Cameron's declaration was more politics than religion. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 20:22 - Apr 23 with 604 views | DylanP |
The Queen is the head of state. She is also the head of the Anglican church. There is no seperation of church and state and they are one and the same thing. Anglican Bishops are automatically part of the House of Lords.
As a result, Britain is clearly a theocracy run by a bunch of religious zealots and mullahs. |  |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 20:28 - Apr 23 with 600 views | BlackCrowe |
Whatever you're faith (and I admit to mine being cloudy at best), the churches (and many are absolutely stunning) around our country are a fantastic part of the landscape and the local vicar, hymns, congregation seems to be more of a good thing than a negative whether you are religious, agnostic or atheist. |  |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 20:42 - Apr 23 with 576 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 18:35 - Apr 23 by HollowayRanger |
yes it is
but not for much longer
halal meat
Sharia law
muslim schools
islam 2nd largest religion
total Muslim population had reached 2.7 million, 4.8% of the total population.
Between 2001 and 2009 the Muslim population increased almost 10 times faster than the non-Muslim population.
Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.
What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.
This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. |
Sorry you're only allowed to use extrapolation when talking about climate change. Trying to do the same with population data is racist and proves you read the Daily Mail or something. |  | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:07 - Apr 23 with 556 views | stansleftfoot |
Cameron is a political snake with short term intent.
He is borrowing christianity as an electoral call to arms.
Christianity is a religion out of paganism, as vegetarianism is bent out meat eating.
Clearly we can actually believe whatever we want, and given a number of crucial rules we can do what we want.
We can defraud, we can haphazardly tax with no consideration for long term damage, we can invade foreign countries to save them from themselves, we can sponsor particular markets for short term gain, all in the name of Christianity!
This country is the result of 3000 years of historical change, most of our current social rules have been in place on a local basis for the full extent of that time, most of these rules are merely practical solutions to neighbours living next door to each other.
If Cameron wants to claim them for Christianity, he only seperates himself from the mass, and creates an greater division.
His constitutional opponent must be a Jew? Mandelson?
The constitution makes The Church of England integral to its Governments responsibilities. The constitution requires Governments licensed by our King or Queen to lean towards Christian values. Education of our Children. Reward the good, punish the bad.
As ever the British people find a half way approach to conforming to the wishes of our rulers whilst actually not giving a monkeys.
Other than a general boredom or ennui in regard to people like Cameron telling us how our country is and how we should behave. I'm offended at the idea my rulers think I'm a Christian. Do as we say! Not as we do!
I'm a complex animal made up of bigotry, lack of education, free will, too much drink, biased information, shame and guilt; Christian...I want to get laid with no consequences.
Cameron has no idea whether we live in a Christian country or a secular one, even in this discussion it doesn't cross some peoples mind that for every 1000 muslim who arrives, 900 are fully functioning quazi christians down the Local within 5 years of living here...Church's are dead, we pray at the Church of the Shopping Mall, we pray at the feet of Harry Redknapp for release from our pain and guilt, our children have NO sense of "C"hristianity, we are returning to a well ordered paganism, where fruitful pleasure taking is our dream and for many it can be achieved. We need faith otherwise we don't get up, faith is returning with a humanist and natural understanding of our world. Cameron is grasping at straws and a dying population.
For me; my God has been the other David, Attenborough. He saved, he explained, he was long term and broadly christian....
I'd say that the British are non-believers but will go to Church and sing if the prices dropped.....bit like Football really! More wine less bread, more singing, less talking....maybe a nice bar! | | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:20 - Apr 23 with 542 views | SpiritofGregory |
Saying 'Do you read the Daily Mail' and using the race card is becoming tiresome. It's a form of bullying, a way of trying to shame someone into shutting up instead of asking and trying to understand why a person feels that way.
People are entitled to voice an opinion if they are alarmed at the marked change in our society. In particular the poor indigenous population of this country who feel that they have been shat on from a great height and will retaliate in the next election.
Britain is a Christian country and people better hang on to it as it underpins the nation and is in the very fabric that forms the heritage and culture of this great nation. |  | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:27 - Apr 23 with 530 views | essextaxiboy |
I think that if we dont assert ourselves as Christian then Islam will steadily fill the vacuum .
I have a great interest in Daoism , but I respect Christianity. |  | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:58 - Apr 23 with 509 views | stansleftfoot |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:20 - Apr 23 by SpiritofGregory |
Saying 'Do you read the Daily Mail' and using the race card is becoming tiresome. It's a form of bullying, a way of trying to shame someone into shutting up instead of asking and trying to understand why a person feels that way.
People are entitled to voice an opinion if they are alarmed at the marked change in our society. In particular the poor indigenous population of this country who feel that they have been shat on from a great height and will retaliate in the next election.
Britain is a Christian country and people better hang on to it as it underpins the nation and is in the very fabric that forms the heritage and culture of this great nation. |
Ha! Alarm does not give a person the right to become a zenophobic Daily Mail opinion vomiting extremist......its not Christian!
Calm, intellectual debate, discovery, revelations in regard to unknown facts and information will reveal solutions and therefore peace amongst man and womankind..
Opinion is what David Cameron has come out with here, and the limitations of his imagination and aim leave us with a dialogue based on the polemic of a comic newspaper.
Opinion is a typical English suburban term for a deeply held belief....so the retaliation of the shit covered indigenous population is to do what exactly? Ummm! I'd freshen up and chill a little.
The purpose of religion is to turn people into the very scared and alarmed person you describe...their saviour will arrive after many dark days into bright light to bring calm and sense to chaos...the modern british christian belief is religion " lite " and I think its attractive to races, creeds and religions of all sorts....the more we get, the more the bigotry dilutes.
It's not for Cameron to lecture us, it's his job to count us in and out of the country and fix pot holes, he's a minor accountant in the scheme of things not a deep thinker. If I want deep thoughts or intellect I'll listen to good people who have proved their value.
Alec Stock, Dalai Lhama, Cassius Clay, Bob Dylan, whoever....David Cameron, you may as well listen to Nigel Farage or Mandelson... | | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:59 - Apr 23 with 507 views | danehoop |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 21:20 - Apr 23 by SpiritofGregory |
Saying 'Do you read the Daily Mail' and using the race card is becoming tiresome. It's a form of bullying, a way of trying to shame someone into shutting up instead of asking and trying to understand why a person feels that way.
People are entitled to voice an opinion if they are alarmed at the marked change in our society. In particular the poor indigenous population of this country who feel that they have been shat on from a great height and will retaliate in the next election.
Britain is a Christian country and people better hang on to it as it underpins the nation and is in the very fabric that forms the heritage and culture of this great nation. |
If Holloway and others of whatever political spectrum chose to write baseless diatribe masquerading as fact then it will be challenged. | |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 22:05 - Apr 23 with 493 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 16:49 - Apr 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
Izlington,
That seems to be the closest answer to what I was getting at. Even so, I can't find anything that tells me that Britain is actually a christian or theocratic state.
As long as the Monarch is also head of a church then you're right - church and state are linked, and I also take your point that Britain's laws are based on an ethical code that is similar to the laws of christianity, or th most common interpretations of christianity at least, though they are probably also similar to various interpretations of the laws of judaism, buddhism, islamism and sikhism.
Despite all that, there's a huge difference between a state being actually theocratic, where a religon and its hierarchy rule the state, and being a state that gives equal opportunities to citizens of all faiths or no faith, whose laws reference no deity and whose customs, mores and cultures reflect the customs, mores and cultures of many faiths, atheism included.
If, and it's still an if, there is nothing in the British constitution on the subject, then what is Cameron really talking about? Because the answer to that simple question is either yes or no, surely. Maybe there' s another debate that he's trying to kickstart - not whether Britian is a Christian country, but whether it should be.
There's votes in that. |
Brian - factual answer [as best as I can manage] - not only is HM the Q head of the Church of England but it is the Established Church and furthermore its archbishops and selected bishops sit in the House of Lords as of right and are able to vote on laws [though by convention they restrict themselves. Not sure if that could be enforced and if so how - back in the last century my constitutional law lecturer was always saying things like "it is thought that the Queen no longer has this right" i.e. no-one bloody knows.] The PM gets to appoint the Archbishops on behalf of the Queen, though he always picks whoever it is the CofE has asked him/her to do. [Maggie Thatcher rubber stamped Robert Runcie and seemed to regret it when he said killing people in the Falklands was a bit of a shame. What would he know, he only won a Military Cross in the Guards Armoured after all, but I digress.]
I think - is there a vicar on this board? - that being the established church also means that the C of E *has* to perform marriage christening and burial services for parishioners irrespective of whether or not they've ever turned up [I think they can refuse marriage services for people who've already had one go.]
The Queen is also Defender of the Faith - its on all the coins in latin ["fid. dei"" for short] - which laughably was awarded to Henry VIII by the Pope before they had that falling out over his divorce.
But being Britain, nothing is that simple - cos in Scotland the anglicans i.e. C of E ["Episcopalians" up there] aren't the established church at all, that's the Church of Scotland, which is presbyterian and therefore has different beliefs. Not sure if the Queen is head of it, but it is subject to some official control which is why the Free and Wee Free broke away. And in Wales since 1920 there's been no established church at all - the anglicans there are the Church IN Wales, not OF it. As you must know, in Ireland [all of it] there's the C of I for anglicans but they've not been established since Victorian times I think. Isn't the RC church still recognised under the Irish constitution, or did that get abolished?
FWIW I think pretty much any European country, however atheist, has Christianity in its moral DNA, just as any Arab country has Islam, both cases due to history. But Europe also has Plato and Aristotle and all the other classical philosophers in its moral DNA - in fact a lot of their stuff is in mainstream christianity - and quite a lot of pre-christian paganism too [having Christmas in December ain't in the Bible, its entirely pagan. And "Easter" was an anglo-saxon goddess, that's why no other European country uses that word for it.] | | | |
| Is Britain a Christian Country? on 22:06 - Apr 23 with 495 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Predicatably, this thread has gone away from the question which was to do with constitutional christianity and has veered towards islamism.
Thanks for the answers on topic, though. I still can't see how exactly Britain is constitutionally christian. Maybe it's more a case of having many links between church and state rather than having a written link? | |
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