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This is a LoftForWords Board chief Clive AKA Northernr (Constant notorious disparagment of jock footie means he's barred) and LoftForWords Sweaty Hater free thread.
If you cannae write or upload something nice,don't write or upload anything. [prepares for inevitable incoming inundation of rabid sassenach bigoted posts]
sexier than sheep,yougottaadmit? #CantWeLoseTheTaffsInstead?
[Post edited 30 Jan 2015 0:15]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:40 - Sep 9 with 1305 views
I'm on holiday. I'm on the loo. I've been on the sauce for ten hours etc, but I will be absolutely bereft if the Scots vote for independence. I'm English, but I love being British. As I've said before, my Dad's from Edinburgh, so I've an emotional attachment to Scotland, but I just love that country and the historical, social and cultural ties we share are enormous. The no campaign has been so negative- Scotland will be fuc ked if it goes it alone - it seems to have ignored how much the rest of us value Scotland's huge contribution to the union and the ridiculous things we've achieved together as a poxy rain-lashed island in the middle of the North Sea (and I type this as an internationalist rather than a natural born unionist). Viva la union. PS. I proposed to my wife with a Rabbie Burns poem - hardcore.
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:40 - Sep 9 with 1305 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:32 - Sep 9 by CiderwithRsie
"it is very difficult to promote a position of retaining the status quo because obviously there are faults with it, you can't promise a utopia,"
Say what you like about the SNP and Salmond, they've got a vision of a new Scotland, free to do it's own thing. Not everyone buys it but a lot of people do.
I don't think ANYONE at Westminster can articulate a clear vision of where they want the UK to be in 10 years time. Never mind utopia, just some sort of idea of where we should be going. Thatcher, Blair, Attlee, Churchill, even Harold Wilson to some extent could all do that [leave aside whether or not you agree with that vision - chances are everyone on here will hate at least one of those.] In England it doesn't make much of a difference because you choose between three parties who have no vision - hence popularity of UKIP IMO - but in Scotland you've got an alternative.
Another interesting thing was a radio piece by a Scots academic who said that in social attitudes English and Scottish are pretty much identical - the proportions of liberals and conservatives are the same; but Scots THINK that they are much more inclusive and socially aware. So Salmond can say "vote Yes to build a fairer society" and some people will assume it's more likely if they aren't shackled to the English, who they assume are all Thatcherites.
Keir Hardie, the Scottish trade unionist who was the first Labour Party leader and its first MP, represented West Ham, and later Merthyr Tydfil.
Ramsay Macdonald, the first Labour Prime Minister and another Scot, represented Leicester, then Aberavon, then Seaham in County Durham and finally the combined Scottish Universities.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:47 - Sep 9 with 1298 views
I would be in the no camp. its a bit rich me not having a vote when my descendants left Paisley to come to Co.Antrim in the 1800s after serving King and Country at Waterloo.
just say NO
should that be forefathers rather than descendants ?
[Post edited 9 Sep 2014 22:48]
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 23:06 - Sep 9 with 1271 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:13 - Sep 9 by Aunt_Nelly
Absolutely and 'Our Dave' has even more to lose. The PM who loses the union will go down in history as a complete disaster. It's doubtful he would be able to stand at the next election and the party will want him out sooner.
I think I've just changed my mind and now hoping for a Yes on the 18th.
[Post edited 9 Sep 2014 22:15]
That would leave the way clear for Boris . He would have steamed into IS by now .. and would be PM for years without The Scottish Labour vote.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 23:44 - Sep 9 with 1252 views
I have to say fair play to you all (nearly) on this thread as I was getting p1ssed right off with this fcking jocks this and Hadrians wall that in previous debates. I'm obviously not voting, but the vast majority of my family are and we used to argue a bit about it at the beginning as I felt that devolution and the powers given to Hollyrood have been used very well to improve Scotland, for its people (which ultimately is what a government is there to do), provide its citizens with better lives. The reason I'd be a yes voter now, comes down to 2 points: 1. Why shouldn't a country be allowed to be in control of its own affairs? Scotland isn't a South Sudan for example, where greed and unprepared leaders are given the free reign. Of course it's no utopia, I can't think of a truly fair and equal nation in the world, but beleive that Scotland and the Parliment, are capable of delivering a functioning country. 2. The 'No' vote campaign has been (or is seen to be) quite malicious, like George.W.Bushs famous 'you're either with us or against us' quote. It's just been bullying and a bit of a boys only type affair with Osbourne, Carney, Spains leaders, Australian PM et al, basically saying, we will fck you up if you go. The vote isn't about being anti-England, but pro-Scotland and the people of Scotland should be allowed to vote how they feel. I do worry that things like the free higher education and prescriptions, which are inherantly good things may not continue and maybe it's a heart over head feeling that I have. The one thing I will add though, is that if 1 vote wins over the other, say 53-47 or whatever, it still ultimately means that practically half the country won't agree with the outcome.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 23:55 - Sep 9 with 1246 views
Great thread. My Scottish friends are still undecided how to vote. What they have said though, and it has been touched on several times here, is that the no campaign has been very poor. Telling people what they can't do puts their backs up and drives them to the other side. The no campaign needed to be much more positive from the sound of it.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:04 - Sep 10 with 1243 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:08 - Sep 9 by kysersosaqpr
They won't be in the EU, so no freedom of movement for any eu migrants to Scotland. They can all come to England, but not Scotland!
How will that effect the scots already in England ?
Scotland are no longer part of the Union or the EU so they should not have free movement in the UK and therefore are they treated as immigrants ? ( genuine question )
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:14 - Sep 10 with 1226 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:04 - Sep 10 by QPR1882
How will that effect the scots already in England ?
Scotland are no longer part of the Union or the EU so they should not have free movement in the UK and therefore are they treated as immigrants ? ( genuine question )
Maybe a naive answer or I'm reading the question wrong mate, but anyone with a British passport, whether you're born in Edinburgh or Entebbe, won't be affected. However, if Scotland do get independence, will any Brit with an expiring passport have to apply for an English one? Or will they get a GB passport (England, Wales, Northern Ireland). Also, a bit off topic... A lady I know has told me that Gallicia are having a referendum vote in December? Sure she said Gallicia, maybe it's Catalonia?
say salmon loses 49-51 is that it Scotland stays in the union for ever? 10 years 1 years? before he stars calling for another vote? and same if Scotland vote yes 51-49 is that it Scotlands gone forever? or say in 4 years time salmons messed up labour win by a landslide and say they are rejoining union
can they or will we get a say in it at all?
wales n.ireland England must all get a separate vote on allowing them back surely
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:04 - Sep 10 by QPR1882
How will that effect the scots already in England ?
Scotland are no longer part of the Union or the EU so they should not have free movement in the UK and therefore are they treated as immigrants ? ( genuine question )
My understanding is that people who identify themselves as Scottish will probably be able to live and work in the rest of the UK under an agreement made between the two countries. All this is up for grabs if the people in Scotland vote for independence, during prolonged and complicated discussions, as I imagine the last thing the UK will want to do is foot the bill for forced evacuation. One thing though, and I am sure that I am in a minority, but if we stop thinking of non-English people as 'immigrants' and thought of them as people, like you and I, with families, aspirations etc, then the debate about immigration becomes more logical and less reactionary. I am willing to give odds higher than QPR to beat Man U, that there is no-one on this forum that does not have foreign blood. The English are a nation of immigrants, so I ask people to consider that and engage their brains before spouting hateful bile towards people who, in the main, are trying to do what is best for themselves and their families.
Nik (third or fourth generation French, with a sprinkling of Dutch)
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:48 - Sep 10 with 1208 views
It looks like its going to be close, so will be divisive. It might as well be now, because if it isn't now the Scottish nationalists will be back in a couple of years for another go. That will only generate more uncertainty. The English can't win because the Scots will be bribed to stay by getting an even bigger slice of the national cake than they get now, so whichever way it goes we will probably be worse off and if they say yes then it might mean a slight benefit for us English. Overall if they do split I think long term it will be financially negative on both sides of the border, but I think their decision is up to them.
For the Labour Party the split would be a real disaster as about 50 of their MP's are in Scottish constituencies and thats a big slice of their presence at Westminster. No wonder we have all of Labour's big guns going berserk to canvass against the split. The thing is I think the Scotts can see that they are motivated by self interest so that might actually persuade them toward nationalism.
Who's Next?
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 01:23 - Sep 10 with 1201 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:35 - Sep 10 by barabajagal
My understanding is that people who identify themselves as Scottish will probably be able to live and work in the rest of the UK under an agreement made between the two countries. All this is up for grabs if the people in Scotland vote for independence, during prolonged and complicated discussions, as I imagine the last thing the UK will want to do is foot the bill for forced evacuation. One thing though, and I am sure that I am in a minority, but if we stop thinking of non-English people as 'immigrants' and thought of them as people, like you and I, with families, aspirations etc, then the debate about immigration becomes more logical and less reactionary. I am willing to give odds higher than QPR to beat Man U, that there is no-one on this forum that does not have foreign blood. The English are a nation of immigrants, so I ask people to consider that and engage their brains before spouting hateful bile towards people who, in the main, are trying to do what is best for themselves and their families.
Nik (third or fourth generation French, with a sprinkling of Dutch)
Did not mean anything by using the word ' immigrants ' the word is often used to describe the hoards trying to get into the country via the lorrys in France. We will have to treat the scots as we would do anyone from outside the EU trying to get into England, wont we ?
As for spouting hateful bile ?????????????
you will have to explain that one to me.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 03:03 - Sep 10 with 1182 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 00:35 - Sep 10 by barabajagal
My understanding is that people who identify themselves as Scottish will probably be able to live and work in the rest of the UK under an agreement made between the two countries. All this is up for grabs if the people in Scotland vote for independence, during prolonged and complicated discussions, as I imagine the last thing the UK will want to do is foot the bill for forced evacuation. One thing though, and I am sure that I am in a minority, but if we stop thinking of non-English people as 'immigrants' and thought of them as people, like you and I, with families, aspirations etc, then the debate about immigration becomes more logical and less reactionary. I am willing to give odds higher than QPR to beat Man U, that there is no-one on this forum that does not have foreign blood. The English are a nation of immigrants, so I ask people to consider that and engage their brains before spouting hateful bile towards people who, in the main, are trying to do what is best for themselves and their families.
Nik (third or fourth generation French, with a sprinkling of Dutch)
Immigrant :- " A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country:"
Oxford English Dictionary
Its not an insult , its a real word .not "hateful bile"
After independence if Scotland are not in the EU , Scottish people would have to apply for indefinate leave to remain or apply for dual citizenship .
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 08:23 - Sep 10 with 1116 views
turkeys voting for xmas comes to mind,salmond will create the socialist rebulic of scotland.scotland are very left wing which could mean a permanent labour goverment i might move there. there are already companys pulling there investment out even thou salmond has promissed a cut in tax. well as much as they dont like london we still send a lot of subsides there way. free prescriptions,free uni places better pensions, i think they got to have problems keeping them.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 08:23 - Sep 10 with 1116 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 03:03 - Sep 10 by essextaxiboy
Immigrant :- " A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country:"
Oxford English Dictionary
Its not an insult , its a real word .not "hateful bile"
After independence if Scotland are not in the EU , Scottish people would have to apply for indefinate leave to remain or apply for dual citizenship .
This is the first great LFW-type thread on this, and I've learned a lot.
Irish people born before the Republic was formed held their British citizenship indefinitely, while those born in the new Republic post-independence held only Irish Nationality. Surely that would have to be the case here as well?
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Was up in Scotland for a funeral last week and was shocked at how many people are voting 'Yes' in the wife's family. It's definitely going to be close.
There's no proper debate up there as it's just Labour talking bollocks against the SNP talking bollocks. What I don't understand is why Cameron allowed the referendum if he didn't feel able to go up and present his case to the Scottish nation. If they aren't good enough to hear him then surely they aren't good enough to vote?
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 08:56 - Sep 10 with 1091 views
Adds to what has been said earlier but honestly this has only had merest mention locally, wouldn't be surprised if it gets a good airing now to scare a few undecided
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 09:03 - Sep 10 with 1079 views
I saw a copy of the Daily Record whilst i was up there and it's always good for a laugh. It actually had teams of old Scottish footballers sorted into 'Yes' and 'No'. There's pages of this nionsense up there.
As The Clash once sang, 'King Solomon he never lived round here'.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 09:18 - Sep 10 with 1062 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 22:27 - Sep 9 by Aunt_Nelly
As I understand it the GBP is a tradeable currency and if they wish they can use it and there is fck all Carney or anyone else can do about it.
You can also be sure after all the hot air and bluff of campaigning, if the outcome is Yes a seperate UK would also enter a formal currency agreement. It would be naive to believe otherwise. There is far too much wealth invested on both sides of the border and the City would demand it. Governments come and go and it's money that really calls the shots.
[Post edited 10 Sep 2014 7:29]
Payment is a two way thing,use the pound by all means but you can't force another party to accept it.Have you tried to pass a Jock Fiver in England?When you cross the border to Carlisle you go and top up your petrol,buy stuff you wouldn't normally just to get rid of the useless soggy shit. And what's to stop Salmond doing a Spanish type land grab?Balmoral would make a wonderful hotel and golfing estate.
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 23:44 - Sep 9 by ganjR
I have to say fair play to you all (nearly) on this thread as I was getting p1ssed right off with this fcking jocks this and Hadrians wall that in previous debates. I'm obviously not voting, but the vast majority of my family are and we used to argue a bit about it at the beginning as I felt that devolution and the powers given to Hollyrood have been used very well to improve Scotland, for its people (which ultimately is what a government is there to do), provide its citizens with better lives. The reason I'd be a yes voter now, comes down to 2 points: 1. Why shouldn't a country be allowed to be in control of its own affairs? Scotland isn't a South Sudan for example, where greed and unprepared leaders are given the free reign. Of course it's no utopia, I can't think of a truly fair and equal nation in the world, but beleive that Scotland and the Parliment, are capable of delivering a functioning country. 2. The 'No' vote campaign has been (or is seen to be) quite malicious, like George.W.Bushs famous 'you're either with us or against us' quote. It's just been bullying and a bit of a boys only type affair with Osbourne, Carney, Spains leaders, Australian PM et al, basically saying, we will fck you up if you go. The vote isn't about being anti-England, but pro-Scotland and the people of Scotland should be allowed to vote how they feel. I do worry that things like the free higher education and prescriptions, which are inherantly good things may not continue and maybe it's a heart over head feeling that I have. The one thing I will add though, is that if 1 vote wins over the other, say 53-47 or whatever, it still ultimately means that practically half the country won't agree with the outcome.
I rember my first tutorial at university - medieval British history - and the question came up of "what defines a country or nation." Because most of the European nation states that exist now - including not only the UK and Republic of Ireland but also England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales - simply didn't exist at the start of the period of study; whereas many of kingdoms and nations existed then that don't now. [When was the last time you met a Pict, or a Jute, or a Frank, or a Sarmatian?]
Turned out really hard to find any simple definition. Ethnicity doesn't work - immigrants have been integrated into other societies for as long as history goes back, and many ethnic groups don't have their own state. Language doesn't work - Switzerland is a country with three languages, Austria and Germany are two countries with one language. Back in the day people thought a common religion was important, but for most of us in Europe it doesn't matter now. In a lot of cases [including, I would say, the UK] the facts are that "nations" exist now because a government created it, not the other way round. But once a group of people start to think of themselves as a nation, then they are one
So the question isn't "why shouldn't a country be in charge of it's own affairs?" If you're British, you already have a country that's in charge of its own affairs, its called the UK. It's "do you think Scotland is your country, or do you think the UK is your country?" I'd be a "no" if I was a Scot, because my answer would have been "both." Voting "yes" means the UK is no longer your country and I think that will diminish Scotland and Scots. It will also diminish the UK and all its English, Welsh and Northern Irish people. Everything that Scotland has given and still gives the UK will be lost to the rest of us. I'll be sad to find that, e.g, the Highlands and the Edinburgh Fringe are not part of my children's heritage. But I'm even sadder to think that Scots are happy that, e.g. London's theatreland or the Cotswolds won't be part of theirs. If Andy Murray wins Wimbledon again we won't have a home grown champion and he won't be doing it before his home crowd - he won't have a home Grand Slam tournament at all.
The Yes campaign say "its not about being anti-England." They are mistaken, honestly or not. You can't decide that the UK is not your country without saying that the English, Welsh and Irish are foreigners to you. That "your own affairs" do not include what happens in Cornwall or Belfast. That you care about jobs in Scotland but you don't care whether unemployment goes up in Liverpool because that's not your country. An independent Scotland may not be against us but it will have said quite bluntly that it's not with us.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 09:24 - Sep 10 with 1050 views
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 09:03 - Sep 10 by ElHoop
I saw a copy of the Daily Record whilst i was up there and it's always good for a laugh. It actually had teams of old Scottish footballers sorted into 'Yes' and 'No'. There's pages of this nionsense up there.
As The Clash once sang, 'King Solomon he never lived round here'.
Yes the Clash were spot on mate. It could happen anywhere.
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My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 09:24 - Sep 10 with 1049 views
as much as it would be a disaster (for both countries) at least they have been allowed to vote on it. No Uk Government has had the balls to give us a vote on Europe.
If they do vote Yes then there could be an upside - could we do a bogof and get rid of the Welsh?
My Dear Jock Brothers and Sisters.. on 09:24 - Sep 10 by headhoops
entertaining thread.
as much as it would be a disaster (for both countries) at least they have been allowed to vote on it. No Uk Government has had the balls to give us a vote on Europe.
If they do vote Yes then there could be an upside - could we do a bogof and get rid of the Welsh?
only kidding taffs.
The Welsh are a bit more savvy,they know which side of the bread is buttered and which is covered in flies.If you take away the emotional element there's nothing here.....no oil reserves,no industry,no easy links to the continent,only sheep and a few wind farms.The first English word a Welsh baby learns is "funding".The general philosophy is exactly the same as Scotland .....just give us the money and f*ck off......but much more overt.
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