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SCOTLAND 02:12 - Sep 18 with 10905 viewsSonofNorfolt

BTW


NOOOOOOOOOOOO.


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SCOTLAND on 22:21 - Sep 18 with 1370 viewsTheBlob

SCOTLAND on 22:13 - Sep 18 by londonscottish

Oh yeah. That too.....

(still like his No speech, though)


Snake oil salesman.Better check your wallet's still there.

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SCOTLAND on 22:21 - Sep 18 with 1366 viewsCiderwithRsie

SCOTLAND on 21:53 - Sep 18 by SomersetHoops

If you mean by being very good that he was responsible for a large part of our financial crisis then you would be right. He also destroyed pension funds when chancellor and got rid of our gold reserves at a stupidly low price. The guy is a disaster and just because he can shout well doesn't make him any better. He was the epitome of short termism as chancellor making sneaky tax changes that he thought people were too stupid to notice. Well only some people were and apart from the global slow down, his policies made it worse for us than it needed to be by not putting money into reserves during the good times.

Does nobody remember him saying there will be no boom and bust under this government followed by the biggest bust seen since the depression. He really is one of the worst politicians we've had to suffer in decades including his dirty tricks department working against members of his own party. I really do hope the Scots vote yes if just to keep that a..hole out of England.


He certainly failed to regulate the City, but the problem with that argument is that de-regulation started under the Tories with the Big Bang and he was consistently criticised by the Tories for not de-regulaying more. If he had stood up in 1997 and said I'm going to regulate the financial sector then he'd have been torn to shreds by the Tories and the press and labour wouldn't have got elected at all - the promise that Labour would not interfere with Thatcherite was key to Labour becoming electable.

He certainly didn't "destroy" pension finds with his windfall tax - my pension find is still gong fine, thank you. Pension funds are still the major investors on the stock exchange. Previously pension funds had taken contribution holidays so there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have done the same if he hadn't introduced that tax.

As for "no boom and bust", he has the longest period of sustained economic growth in the history of the UK. It's a matter of record that no Chancellor has ever matched his record. It was the main reason for Labour's long period in office

I'm not trying to pretend he didn't screw up somethings as Chancellor and he was hopeless as PM, I certainly voted against him, but the financial crisis was worldwide and we ddi not have it worse than many other countries, as any Greek could tell you. On the OP, he was the guy who kicked the yanks into co-ordinated action that avoided the sort of crash that happened in 1929.
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SCOTLAND on 22:33 - Sep 18 with 1338 viewsElHoop

The betting says no - it's just a case of how much no it is.
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SCOTLAND on 22:36 - Sep 18 with 1328 viewsCiderwithRsie

SCOTLAND on 16:46 - Sep 18 by kropotkin41

I totally accept that argument, Cider. I'm absolutely no friend of nationalism and no dewy-eyed fan of Salmond. There are a number of reasons that I'm hoping for an apparently unlikely yes vote today, none of them to do with liking nationalism.

1. I hope that breaking the Union will bring us all down to Earth about our true place in the world. It might just take the last lowering of the Union Jack to stop us forever playing the Big Imperial power and fighting in stupid wars around the world.

2. I believe that the end of the Union would make all of us consider the way democracy might be, how it doesn't work now and should be in the future. This is a slim hope, but as my hope is for democracy in every community and every workplace I'll take almost any conversation that makes people think about what it might mean to be a real citizen.

3. I hope that the English regions and Wales would benefit from increased devolution.

4. I hope that Salmond would get seriously bitten on the ar*e by his own regionalist "problems".

I have no attachment to the UK or indeed to any nation state; all nation states are run in the interests of the ruling class. A very large part of my hope for a yes vote is just the hope that breaking something as big as the UK might induce the kind of shock we all need to address the problems we face.

Anyway, it seems that No is going to win and we'll see how far devo-max goes in the years to come. There may yet come a day when the No campaign wish they'd gone in '14, and certainly when the Unionists wish they'd accepted Scottish independence now rather than later under more acrimonious circumstances.


I think the shock of the closeness of the vote ought to provoke a move to increased devolution in the regions too, and some thinking about the way that democracy works, or doesn't as the case may be. It's gonna be hard to push through devo-max for Scotland while telling Wales and the English regions to just shut up and pay yer taxes so Scotland can still take its cash under the Barnett formula.

The thing about wars is another of the things I don't buy. First off lots of small countries e.g. Estonia and Georgia were part of Bush's "coalition of the willing" in Iraq precisely because they are open to U.S. pressure/bribes, while the biggest European country [Germany] wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Secondly, sometimes it's right to be in the war. If Scotland had been independent in 1940, would it have fought Hitler? Eire didn't [notwithstanding many Irish volunteers and Irish co-operation with Britain.] From "5 Days in May" by John Lukacs, Lord Halifax argued that if Britain could get a deal with Hitler that left us independent, then we should take it - it wasn't our job to take on Hitler for the sake of other countries when the reality was that we weren't big enough to do it. Churchill argued to the contrary and he was right. I'm against fighting stupid wars, and against fighting rightful wars stupidly, but against making it impossible for us to ever fight a war.
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SCOTLAND on 22:41 - Sep 18 with 1314 viewsElHoop

'Yes' vote falling between 40 and 45% is now the favourite. It looks as if Salmond has been routed.
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SCOTLAND on 22:48 - Sep 18 with 1287 viewsMrSheen

SCOTLAND on 22:21 - Sep 18 by CiderwithRsie

He certainly failed to regulate the City, but the problem with that argument is that de-regulation started under the Tories with the Big Bang and he was consistently criticised by the Tories for not de-regulaying more. If he had stood up in 1997 and said I'm going to regulate the financial sector then he'd have been torn to shreds by the Tories and the press and labour wouldn't have got elected at all - the promise that Labour would not interfere with Thatcherite was key to Labour becoming electable.

He certainly didn't "destroy" pension finds with his windfall tax - my pension find is still gong fine, thank you. Pension funds are still the major investors on the stock exchange. Previously pension funds had taken contribution holidays so there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have done the same if he hadn't introduced that tax.

As for "no boom and bust", he has the longest period of sustained economic growth in the history of the UK. It's a matter of record that no Chancellor has ever matched his record. It was the main reason for Labour's long period in office

I'm not trying to pretend he didn't screw up somethings as Chancellor and he was hopeless as PM, I certainly voted against him, but the financial crisis was worldwide and we ddi not have it worse than many other countries, as any Greek could tell you. On the OP, he was the guy who kicked the yanks into co-ordinated action that avoided the sort of crash that happened in 1929.


Good news that your pension fund is hunky dory, but there isn't a single FTSE100 company with a final salary scheme open to new members and most have closed to existing members too. This is a massive transfer of risk onto private individuals and we don't know the consequences yet as hardly any of the people affected have retired, let alone tried to making their savings last 30 years. I know there are other enormous factors at work, principally longer life expectancy and the collapse of interest rates and the implied promise was unsustainable for private sector companies forced to account for future liabilities - no such problem for the public sector though while there are still taxpayers and QE. However, ripping £40bn out of private sector pensions hardly helped.

As for GB shocking the Yanks into action, pull the other one. All the Western governments allowed credit to let rip to substitute for falling productivity and competitiveness. Not just because the bankers told them to, but because everyone likes the taste of jam today.
[Post edited 18 Sep 2014 22:49]
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SCOTLAND on 22:49 - Sep 18 with 1282 viewsNortholt_Rs

"We're all voting Yes, we're all voting Yes, phuck off Scotland, We're all voting Yes!"

Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR.

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SCOTLAND on 23:15 - Sep 18 with 1255 viewsCiderwithRsie

SCOTLAND on 22:48 - Sep 18 by MrSheen

Good news that your pension fund is hunky dory, but there isn't a single FTSE100 company with a final salary scheme open to new members and most have closed to existing members too. This is a massive transfer of risk onto private individuals and we don't know the consequences yet as hardly any of the people affected have retired, let alone tried to making their savings last 30 years. I know there are other enormous factors at work, principally longer life expectancy and the collapse of interest rates and the implied promise was unsustainable for private sector companies forced to account for future liabilities - no such problem for the public sector though while there are still taxpayers and QE. However, ripping £40bn out of private sector pensions hardly helped.

As for GB shocking the Yanks into action, pull the other one. All the Western governments allowed credit to let rip to substitute for falling productivity and competitiveness. Not just because the bankers told them to, but because everyone likes the taste of jam today.
[Post edited 18 Sep 2014 22:49]


W-e-e-ll, I wouldn't want try to defend the tax on pensions too much, but I think the other factors you mention were far and away the biggest reasons for the end of final salary schemes. As I've said, employers were already in the habit of declaring pension holidays when funds were flush, [or just stealing the bloody things in the case of Bob Maxwell and a few others] so the idea that they would have nobly carried on but for wicked old Gordon doesn't convince me.

My point about kicking the yanks into action is nothing to do with interest rates, [I accept your critique btw] I was referring to the G20 summit in 2009 which Brown not only called but at which he pushed for and got a global trillion dollar rescue package. Bush was US President and showed no interest in any such stimulus prior to the meeting. Brown's acknowledged by all the leaders who were there as the driving force in that whole process.

He was also key in the writing off of African debt, in so far as it has been.

A very flawed guy, but far from the clueless incompetent sometimes portrayed.
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SCOTLAND on 23:17 - Sep 18 with 1253 viewsBrianMcCarthy

I'm looking for exit polls and different sites are producing different data. Any ideas or pointers, please, people?

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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SCOTLAND on 23:27 - Sep 18 with 1239 viewsFDC

SCOTLAND on 23:17 - Sep 18 by BrianMcCarthy

I'm looking for exit polls and different sites are producing different data. Any ideas or pointers, please, people?


From CNN

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SCOTLAND on 23:29 - Sep 18 with 1235 viewsBrianMcCarthy

SCOTLAND on 23:27 - Sep 18 by FDC

From CNN



Scotland giving 110%, eh? I thought that was only possible in the world of football commentators?

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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SCOTLAND on 23:48 - Sep 18 with 1197 viewsBrightonhoop

SCOTLAND on 22:48 - Sep 18 by MrSheen

Good news that your pension fund is hunky dory, but there isn't a single FTSE100 company with a final salary scheme open to new members and most have closed to existing members too. This is a massive transfer of risk onto private individuals and we don't know the consequences yet as hardly any of the people affected have retired, let alone tried to making their savings last 30 years. I know there are other enormous factors at work, principally longer life expectancy and the collapse of interest rates and the implied promise was unsustainable for private sector companies forced to account for future liabilities - no such problem for the public sector though while there are still taxpayers and QE. However, ripping £40bn out of private sector pensions hardly helped.

As for GB shocking the Yanks into action, pull the other one. All the Western governments allowed credit to let rip to substitute for falling productivity and competitiveness. Not just because the bankers told them to, but because everyone likes the taste of jam today.
[Post edited 18 Sep 2014 22:49]


Spot on sadly. Closure of Final Salary schemes were not intended to enrich the Pensioner or saver.

And mortgage de-regulation started under Thacther to shift housing stock that has lead to the housing crises today. Brown was just a muppet of little consequence. Thatcher opened the flood gates. Refused to sell the Post Office that left us all short of £2 Billion, and the same unelected scrotes are selling the NHS with no right to reverse. Smell the coffee and wake up. Scotland is just the start regardless of the outcome. The world is at a cross roads. It's up to us. Not elected wannabees.
[Post edited 18 Sep 2014 23:52]
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SCOTLAND on 07:06 - Sep 19 with 1080 viewslondonscottish

Just woke up to the news. Thank f.cku for that.

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SCOTLAND on 07:43 - Sep 19 with 1042 viewsRangersDave

Now just shut the Fcuk up Salmond'.

Go away and never darken our doorstep again you weasel.
However, he should now be,a tad more contrite, but I can't see that happening.

WWW.northernphotography.com
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SCOTLAND on 07:53 - Sep 19 with 1033 viewslondonscottish

SCOTLAND on 07:43 - Sep 19 by RangersDave

Now just shut the Fcuk up Salmond'.

Go away and never darken our doorstep again you weasel.
However, he should now be,a tad more contrite, but I can't see that happening.


What's pissing me off this morning is that we've just had to spend many millions of pounds of taxpayers money telling him and his lynch mob to fcuk off.

And now we have commit untold millions more to keep the peace.

FFS.

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SCOTLAND on 07:53 - Sep 19 with 1021 viewsHollowayRanger



its culloden all over again

Listen to the band play!
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SCOTLAND on 08:17 - Sep 19 with 1003 viewsElHoop

Yes campaign fell away in the finishing straight. I think that the No brigade finally got their act together but left it late.

now the politicking starts. SNP wants the quick job that was promised. This of course impacts on the powers ofthe future English parliament. No surprise that Cameron wants to give Scotland more powers than Labour wants to do - Tories more likely to have control over policies given to Scotland when it comes to the same powers being given over to the English parliament. If they don't set up an English parliament then UKIP are likely to step in and offer to do it for them. Complicated but interesting times.
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SCOTLAND on 08:25 - Sep 19 with 976 viewsbosh67

Och aye the noooooo.

Never knowingly right.
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SCOTLAND on 08:29 - Sep 19 with 970 viewsMrSheen

SCOTLAND on 23:15 - Sep 18 by CiderwithRsie

W-e-e-ll, I wouldn't want try to defend the tax on pensions too much, but I think the other factors you mention were far and away the biggest reasons for the end of final salary schemes. As I've said, employers were already in the habit of declaring pension holidays when funds were flush, [or just stealing the bloody things in the case of Bob Maxwell and a few others] so the idea that they would have nobly carried on but for wicked old Gordon doesn't convince me.

My point about kicking the yanks into action is nothing to do with interest rates, [I accept your critique btw] I was referring to the G20 summit in 2009 which Brown not only called but at which he pushed for and got a global trillion dollar rescue package. Bush was US President and showed no interest in any such stimulus prior to the meeting. Brown's acknowledged by all the leaders who were there as the driving force in that whole process.

He was also key in the writing off of African debt, in so far as it has been.

A very flawed guy, but far from the clueless incompetent sometimes portrayed.


Bush was the President in April 2009? News to Obama! Brown was given the credit as the host of the summit, but that's just protocol. But as we agree, the pension impact was one factor, along with longevity and interest rates.
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SCOTLAND on 08:53 - Sep 19 with 942 viewsenfieldargh

think we should make them all speak English now

captains fantastic
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SCOTLAND on 09:06 - Sep 19 with 925 viewsHantsR

It was the son wot did it!

Well done Mel
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SCOTLAND on 09:30 - Sep 19 with 892 viewsballbag

Leon Knight shares his views

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SCOTLAND on 09:37 - Sep 19 with 875 viewsClive_Anderson

SCOTLAND on 22:21 - Sep 18 by CiderwithRsie

He certainly failed to regulate the City, but the problem with that argument is that de-regulation started under the Tories with the Big Bang and he was consistently criticised by the Tories for not de-regulaying more. If he had stood up in 1997 and said I'm going to regulate the financial sector then he'd have been torn to shreds by the Tories and the press and labour wouldn't have got elected at all - the promise that Labour would not interfere with Thatcherite was key to Labour becoming electable.

He certainly didn't "destroy" pension finds with his windfall tax - my pension find is still gong fine, thank you. Pension funds are still the major investors on the stock exchange. Previously pension funds had taken contribution holidays so there is no guarantee that they wouldn't have done the same if he hadn't introduced that tax.

As for "no boom and bust", he has the longest period of sustained economic growth in the history of the UK. It's a matter of record that no Chancellor has ever matched his record. It was the main reason for Labour's long period in office

I'm not trying to pretend he didn't screw up somethings as Chancellor and he was hopeless as PM, I certainly voted against him, but the financial crisis was worldwide and we ddi not have it worse than many other countries, as any Greek could tell you. On the OP, he was the guy who kicked the yanks into co-ordinated action that avoided the sort of crash that happened in 1929.


He didn't just do further deregulations, he removed the regulatory body completely and told the new one not to bother enforcing any regulations whatsoever. Then when it turned out the banks were involved in huge amounts of fraud which he had helped cause, he bailed them out with taxpayers money no questions asked.

He should have bailed out the depositors up to the FSA limit, let the banks go bust whilst keeping a skeleton banking service going until things got sorted out and prosecuted the bankers involved in illegal activity and then afterwards sorted out the regulatory system so it never happened again.

But no he wanted to get re-elected so he just did his usual trick of chucking money at the problem hoping it goes away.

And now I see him on the telly promising more powers and money for the Scottish people like him at the expense of the English who voted him out.
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SCOTLAND on 09:38 - Sep 19 with 873 viewsPhildo

whole thing reminds me of 92 when all the chatter was one way (Kinnock) but a lot of people were quietly going off to do something else(Major).

Whatever happens things have to change for english matters.

Whole thing has been worth it to give the political establishment a boot up the backside. Did get a bit bored of it towards the end though.

I would quite like Salmond as PM though as he seemed to run rings round all the other lot.
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SCOTLAND on 09:45 - Sep 19 with 859 viewswrinklyhoop

Seen on Twitter

RT @Queen_UK: Having looked up the kilt of nationalism, Scotland has chosen the trousers of Union.
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