| Tactics, training and fitness levels 17:45 - Sep 20 with 2272 views | bosh67 |
Tactics - we don't have any.
Training - not sure what is being trained.
Fitness - Severely lacking apart from Henry and a much improved Niko.
Not sure that there is too much wrong with the personnel on the pitch but there seems to be a general lack of belief at this level, no particular tactical plan and lord knows what Harry, Hods etc are doing for training.
Back four are slow to get the ball out. Very little link up play with the midfield. No tracking back leaving the back 4 exposed. No real link up or real service between midfield and the forwards. Far too much room between the three phases on the pitch. Far too little pace, mainly because there seems to be a general lack of plan on the counter as to what to do. Very poor ball management and possession management.
Mostly the right personnel but lacking in link ups between the defence, midfield and forwards. Austin and Vargas had to travel far too far to get the ball and ended up too wide or isolated.
If Niko hadn't played so well and Henry didn't stamp on the midfield second half we would have been taken apart and clueless.
We are quick to jump on the players but you look at them and think, if this lot had proper coaching, discipline in shape through training and were actually fitter then they should be holding their own. But they are struggling and the problem is the coaching in my humble opinion, or obvious lack of it, or at least a shape that the players understand where they are meant to be within.
I thought we were clueless under Wally last season but with new players and a better atmosphere around the place, allegedly, you would hope for better, but Glenn hasn't been at this level for a decade and Harry just seems to be tired and overwhelmed.
The players need to hunt and track in groups and back each other up and they just don't seem trained to do so. That has to be down to the coaching rather than the players. |  |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 17:48 - Sep 20 with 1741 views | Antti_Heinola |
Very little to disagree with here Bosh, excellent round-up.
We've played 5 games, scored just 3, and all three were set pieces. That is a serious worry, especially as we created next to nothing today, and didn't look like creating much either. The only thing that got the team going was the injustice of not getting a pen for the foul(s) on Caulker.
Very concerning - to me, there was no plan today, again, and the selection, again, was... eccentric. |  |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:14 - Sep 20 with 1691 views | QPR_ARG |
I'd also raise some concerns regarding our training methods.
When so many muscular injuries happen to so many players, there could be something wrong in the methods applied.
Same goes for serious knee injuries. There could be an element of bad luck, but if you remember last season and the many done knees we had and this season it has already happened to Ale. Now Harry says Sandro "did his knee yesterday".
Our players were falling like flies today.
Something needs to change.
And we can't go changing 25 players. |  | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:20 - Sep 20 with 1667 views | kropotkin41 |
On this subject, just watching the West Ham v Liverpool game and asking myself if man-for-man we have an inferior squad to that of WH. I don't think we do, so why do we LOOK like we're not a team AGAIN? |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:20 - Sep 20 with 1667 views | jamois |
Amen, Bosh. We seem to be saying the same things, over and over again, for the best part of 2 years now. Total agreement. |  |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:25 - Sep 20 with 1639 views | Jamie |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:20 - Sep 20 by kropotkin41 |
On this subject, just watching the West Ham v Liverpool game and asking myself if man-for-man we have an inferior squad to that of WH. I don't think we do, so why do we LOOK like we're not a team AGAIN? |
Because the longest serving player in our 18 was Joey Barton at 3 years, one of which was out on loan... |  | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:28 - Sep 20 with 1629 views | Bluce_Ree |
I thought we played quite well in the first half. Good movement and passing just a lack of individual ability.
We were bullshit in the second half though. |  |
| ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH MARTI THE REDEEMER WHO STRENGTHENS ME. |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:29 - Sep 20 with 1620 views | kropotkin41 |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:25 - Sep 20 by Jamie |
Because the longest serving player in our 18 was Joey Barton at 3 years, one of which was out on loan... |
Point taken.
Still, surely we might expect some rapid improvement if that's the only problem, all these guys and the coaches are professionals allegedly. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:36 - Sep 20 with 1600 views | qprewan |
in regards to fitness over the last couple of years have you ever known a period when so many players have gone down with Hamstring injuries; it is getting ridiculous and is now beyond simply unlucky; Imo the players are not fit enough.
I too am watching the West Ham game and think that they look much better than us; much more pace, more attacking and much keener and quicker to close the opposition down. Think that they have done better transfer business than us too- still not to worry the Standard are reporting that HR wants to team up Defoe and Crouch in January! [Post edited 20 Sep 2014 18:37]
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:40 - Sep 20 with 1586 views | VancouverHoop |
There was a point today when Ferdinand had his foot on the ball in open play for what seemed an eternity, waiting for players to get into passing lanes. He finally passed it to Caulker, five yards away on the touchline, who wasn't expecting it. Throw to Stoke. It was a real face-palm moment, Ferdinand clearly yelled "move!" to his team mates but, apparently, no one did.
In our defence, we're only five league games into season with six new regular starters. Team building doesn't happen instantly. To me most of our mistakes are about timing and positioning, not skill. There was no one today who looked like they didn't belong on the pitch. They just need to become familiar with each other. We'll be OK – no better than that – but certainly OK.
Let's revisit this in another five matches. | | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:46 - Sep 20 with 1559 views | kropotkin41 |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:40 - Sep 20 by VancouverHoop |
There was a point today when Ferdinand had his foot on the ball in open play for what seemed an eternity, waiting for players to get into passing lanes. He finally passed it to Caulker, five yards away on the touchline, who wasn't expecting it. Throw to Stoke. It was a real face-palm moment, Ferdinand clearly yelled "move!" to his team mates but, apparently, no one did.
In our defence, we're only five league games into season with six new regular starters. Team building doesn't happen instantly. To me most of our mistakes are about timing and positioning, not skill. There was no one today who looked like they didn't belong on the pitch. They just need to become familiar with each other. We'll be OK – no better than that – but certainly OK.
Let's revisit this in another five matches. |
I think that's a good call............. I sincerely hope that your optimism proves to be justified. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:50 - Sep 20 with 1541 views | BlackCrowe |
Very static, no pass and move or box to box and fluidity. Strange thing is that that I actually think we've got the players to be great going forward. |  |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:51 - Sep 20 with 1538 views | vegasranger |
Spot on Bosh. Our level of fitness looks really poor. On the first goal Islas was at fault but Barton had a chance to close down Moses and he just stood there and watched. When Stoke broke in the first half our players were just not tracking back with any urgency. Our players look as if they are trying to conserve energy. We have to get fitter. When we had the ball we were so obvious, without Niko we would have had no attacking threat. | | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:51 - Sep 20 with 1535 views | kropotkin41 |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:46 - Sep 20 by kropotkin41 |
I think that's a good call............. I sincerely hope that your optimism proves to be justified. |
Mind you, our next five or six games look pretty terrifying to me!! | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:58 - Sep 20 with 1521 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:51 - Sep 20 by kropotkin41 |
Mind you, our next five or six games look pretty terrifying to me!! |
Yes I was looking at that earlier. Nasty run of fixtures coming up. |  | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 19:05 - Sep 20 with 1496 views | kropotkin41 |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:58 - Sep 20 by CroydonCaptJack |
Yes I was looking at that earlier. Nasty run of fixtures coming up. |
I think we'll have to play much better than today to get any points at all before the Leicester game.............. and probably even including that one given how good they've looked. Hope this doesn't seem too pessimistic, but I thought we looked shambolic at times today. | |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 19:27 - Sep 20 with 1426 views | qprewan |
On the positive side we have so far played 3 sides at home who will probably finish in the bottom half and have been competitive at least in each of them.
on the negative; we have played 2 top half teams away and been totally outclassed and out played; the problem is as Clive noted in his Man u match report is that our away record has now been very dismal for some time now. Under both Hughes and Harry we have basically approached every away game with a negative let's try and stop them scoring aproach; this generally unravels quite quickly and we rarely display any sign of a plan b. As someone who goes to the vast majority of away matches I am now getting sick of it and it seems like I am not alone, this season we are taking the lower a locations and yet still Southampton and West Ham tickets are available. I am going to the next 2 but if I don't see some effort and self belief think I will knock it on the head. If we do not sort this out it is going to put immense pressure on the home games. Please Harry give me a team that I can be proud of at least. [Post edited 20 Sep 2014 19:29]
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 20:47 - Sep 20 with 1291 views | terryb |
Was fitness a problem at previous clubs Harry managed?If not, what is the difference in the training regime now to what he used in the past?
Please, is there anybody who can explain to me what shape we were meant to be playing prior to Philliops replacing Barton?
Mutch certainly didn't know as he just moved in the same five yards circumference as Barton & Fer did. Upto his injury Barton may heve been our best player, but we improved as a team after that as we then had some width & Mutch understood his role more.
In the first half I thought that Vargas made some great runs but the pass to him was normally ignored in preference of a five yard sideways ball. I would put this down to minds being at the same level of fitness as the physical side is.
Why? Why? Why? We probably had less players away on international duty than every Premier club (perhaps except Burnley) so how has fitness not improved. Never mind that we have also lost three players to injuries that must have occurred during training. | | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:03 - Sep 20 with 1247 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 19:27 - Sep 20 by qprewan |
On the positive side we have so far played 3 sides at home who will probably finish in the bottom half and have been competitive at least in each of them.
on the negative; we have played 2 top half teams away and been totally outclassed and out played; the problem is as Clive noted in his Man u match report is that our away record has now been very dismal for some time now. Under both Hughes and Harry we have basically approached every away game with a negative let's try and stop them scoring aproach; this generally unravels quite quickly and we rarely display any sign of a plan b. As someone who goes to the vast majority of away matches I am now getting sick of it and it seems like I am not alone, this season we are taking the lower a locations and yet still Southampton and West Ham tickets are available. I am going to the next 2 but if I don't see some effort and self belief think I will knock it on the head. If we do not sort this out it is going to put immense pressure on the home games. Please Harry give me a team that I can be proud of at least. [Post edited 20 Sep 2014 19:29]
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"On the positive side we have so far played 3 sides at home who will probably finish in the bottom half and have been competitive at least in each of them"
.... and only won one of them.
If we'd played better against Spurs and Man U away we would still more than likely have lost by the odd goal. But the Hull and Stoke home games are 4 points dropped. Add in an extra -4 or -5 goals on the GD and we are below target. | | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:07 - Sep 20 with 1233 views | fakekerby |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:03 - Sep 20 by CiderwithRsie |
"On the positive side we have so far played 3 sides at home who will probably finish in the bottom half and have been competitive at least in each of them"
.... and only won one of them.
If we'd played better against Spurs and Man U away we would still more than likely have lost by the odd goal. But the Hull and Stoke home games are 4 points dropped. Add in an extra -4 or -5 goals on the GD and we are below target. |
Fitness has been a major issue for several seasons now - how has our fitness coach stayed in the job?! | | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:24 - Sep 20 with 1181 views | andygg |
Exactly what I thought today. Unfit and shite tactics.
Hurry up and sort it out Bagpuss, ffs. |  | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:30 - Sep 20 with 1160 views | kropotkin41 |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:24 - Sep 20 by andygg |
Exactly what I thought today. Unfit and shite tactics.
Hurry up and sort it out Bagpuss, ffs. |
He's been in charge for a long time now. Do you really see him changing what he does and how he does it unless he's told to from above? I'm not sure he's capable of adapting.
I know they lost, but after 19 minutes this evening, Brendan Rogers was changing things around for Liverpool, responding to what was going wrong. Harry doesn't seem to do much of that in games or between games. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:54 - Sep 20 with 1135 views | Discodroids |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 18:40 - Sep 20 by VancouverHoop |
There was a point today when Ferdinand had his foot on the ball in open play for what seemed an eternity, waiting for players to get into passing lanes. He finally passed it to Caulker, five yards away on the touchline, who wasn't expecting it. Throw to Stoke. It was a real face-palm moment, Ferdinand clearly yelled "move!" to his team mates but, apparently, no one did.
In our defence, we're only five league games into season with six new regular starters. Team building doesn't happen instantly. To me most of our mistakes are about timing and positioning, not skill. There was no one today who looked like they didn't belong on the pitch. They just need to become familiar with each other. We'll be OK – no better than that – but certainly OK.
Let's revisit this in another five matches. |
i remember that bit well , i think the return pass to 'rio' went straight into touch!!.
a team that play with a bell inside the ball couldnt have produced a worst passage of play,.
the geezer next to me got up and walked out!! |  |
| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 23:04 - Sep 20 with 1058 views | kropotkin41 |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 21:54 - Sep 20 by Discodroids |
i remember that bit well , i think the return pass to 'rio' went straight into touch!!.
a team that play with a bell inside the ball couldnt have produced a worst passage of play,.
the geezer next to me got up and walked out!! |
So if we can assume that a number of our experienced players can see the problems - I would have thought at the very least Barton, Kranjcar, Hill, and Ferdinand you'd hope - then once again we are back at what the bloody hell are they doing in training? This is desperate stuff. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 00:15 - Sep 21 with 994 views | LythamR |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 23:04 - Sep 20 by kropotkin41 |
So if we can assume that a number of our experienced players can see the problems - I would have thought at the very least Barton, Kranjcar, Hill, and Ferdinand you'd hope - then once again we are back at what the bloody hell are they doing in training? This is desperate stuff. |
I would dearly love to know what actually goes on in training at our club and what the responsibilites and contributions of Bondy and Jordan are.
We appear to have a bigger and more experienced management and coaching team than most other clubs certainly outside the top 6 but as mentioned their doesnt seem to be any coherent discernable improvement, it was the same last season, after mclaren left we got progressively worse throughout the season until the play offs and we all know we were very lucky in the final
Traore for example has not improved one iota in 3 + years, he still makes the same mistakes consistently, same with Hoilett 2 players with ability but need to improve their application significantly, it just isnt happening and i think the only place you can look at is the coaching and ,management |  | | |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 07:13 - Sep 21 with 878 views | jonno |
| Tactics, training and fitness levels on 00:15 - Sep 21 by LythamR |
I would dearly love to know what actually goes on in training at our club and what the responsibilites and contributions of Bondy and Jordan are.
We appear to have a bigger and more experienced management and coaching team than most other clubs certainly outside the top 6 but as mentioned their doesnt seem to be any coherent discernable improvement, it was the same last season, after mclaren left we got progressively worse throughout the season until the play offs and we all know we were very lucky in the final
Traore for example has not improved one iota in 3 + years, he still makes the same mistakes consistently, same with Hoilett 2 players with ability but need to improve their application significantly, it just isnt happening and i think the only place you can look at is the coaching and ,management |
Of course it's the coaching, training and fitness levels. What are the track records of Bond and Jordan? What qualifications do they have with regard to coaching? What sort of understanding of modern tactics do they have, or Redknapp come to that? What sort of fitness regime is there at the Club? The fact that Taarabt was allowed to gain the weight he did over the summer shows there is no monitoring of the players outside the season, and the fact that he was clearly allowed to simply not bother to train for the first few weeks of the season implies a very lax regime. Most players will do as little as they can get away with in training, it's just a job to them after all, so they need to be pushed to achieve the fitness levels required in many cases. I get the impression that not a lot of fitness work is done in training as we are consistently less fit or as sharp as the opposition generally. There also appears to be very little work done on team shape, patterns of play etc. We have signed some decent players and they don't become poor players overnight. I suspect our coaching is nowhere near at the modern level and is still in the dark ages. |  | | |
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