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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? 12:55 - Nov 20 with 4829 viewsrunningman75

Heard on the news today, that last Friday there was a record number of users on the London underground. I travel regularly around London and notice more often that English is a more uncommon language. My great grandparents were immigrants to the UK but their children all spoke English.
I used to take the liberal viewpoint of diversity being beneficial but when I see people selling the big issue and others not contributing to society think we need to have an Australian type points system and visa system rather then openly letting everyone into the country. I could not support UKIP as they have poor policies in terms of the NHS and other policies but feel the country is reaching breaking point and many more people will be looking towards UKIP. Immigration is not just the natural place for the far right any more.
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 16:59 - Nov 20 with 900 viewsEastR

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 15:28 - Nov 20 by runningman75

I work in North west London, there are local businesses staffed with Italians, Polish , French and Spanish. Meanwhile I have often passed the local weatherspoons which seems to be busy during a working day with British adults of working age. I have always thought that these people appeared fit to work but wondered what the problem is in regards to them not working.


maybe they work shifts?

just sayin' like

Poll: Is time up for Ainsworth?

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:03 - Nov 20 with 890 viewsElHoop

I never get this stuff about UKIP being racist or blaming immigrants. The people I know who are voting UKIP aren't remotely racist or blamers of immigrants. That was the manor of the BNP, British Movement and National Front in their day, and no way would so many people be supporting those parties now even if they were fed up with the level of immigration. UKIP has given those concerned about immigration a voice which previously didn't exist within a reputable party. It's just that there's no plan to control immigration and you can't be racist if you don't want so many people coming in. If you in some way discriminated against them when they got here then that would be racism but you can't be racist towards people who aren't here, and you can't be racist if you think that some of those immigrants shouldn't be here - assuming that you don't single out a particular racial group amongst them.
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:07 - Nov 20 with 880 viewsTheBlob

The election process is now just to decide who becomes Hell's Chief Stoker.

Poll: So how was the season for you?

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:10 - Nov 20 with 873 viewseasthertsr

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:03 - Nov 20 by ElHoop

I never get this stuff about UKIP being racist or blaming immigrants. The people I know who are voting UKIP aren't remotely racist or blamers of immigrants. That was the manor of the BNP, British Movement and National Front in their day, and no way would so many people be supporting those parties now even if they were fed up with the level of immigration. UKIP has given those concerned about immigration a voice which previously didn't exist within a reputable party. It's just that there's no plan to control immigration and you can't be racist if you don't want so many people coming in. If you in some way discriminated against them when they got here then that would be racism but you can't be racist towards people who aren't here, and you can't be racist if you think that some of those immigrants shouldn't be here - assuming that you don't single out a particular racial group amongst them.


Go into any Pub, and talk to most UKIPPER'S standing at the bar(We've all met them!). I have, you get a long diatribe about 'blacks and poles' ruining the country and how they should be sent home. But they don't have any problems with Australians or Canadians doing the same thing. I'd say there was a tad of racism there myself!
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:23 - Nov 20 with 857 viewspaulparker

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:10 - Nov 20 by easthertsr

Go into any Pub, and talk to most UKIPPER'S standing at the bar(We've all met them!). I have, you get a long diatribe about 'blacks and poles' ruining the country and how they should be sent home. But they don't have any problems with Australians or Canadians doing the same thing. I'd say there was a tad of racism there myself!


Yeah right oh

that's like saying every left wing socialist hangs around health food cafes slurping Carrot & tarragon smoothies
you cannot wait can you, to brand any right wing voter racist
id vote UKIP but I don't hang around the pub all day talking about "blacks" & "poles"

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:27 - Nov 20 with 845 viewsstevec

The election will come and go, immigration will continue to rise and the same people who say immigration should continue unabated will, in their next sentence, moan about their wages stagnating.

For the economic illiterates, its supply and demand. More people than jobs = less wages. Get used to it.
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:29 - Nov 20 with 834 viewsQPRDave

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:10 - Nov 20 by easthertsr

Go into any Pub, and talk to most UKIPPER'S standing at the bar(We've all met them!). I have, you get a long diatribe about 'blacks and poles' ruining the country and how they should be sent home. But they don't have any problems with Australians or Canadians doing the same thing. I'd say there was a tad of racism there myself!


Think its just the company you keep
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:36 - Nov 20 with 816 viewseasthertsr

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:23 - Nov 20 by paulparker

Yeah right oh

that's like saying every left wing socialist hangs around health food cafes slurping Carrot & tarragon smoothies
you cannot wait can you, to brand any right wing voter racist
id vote UKIP but I don't hang around the pub all day talking about "blacks" & "poles"


Of course not all right wing voters are racist, and I never said they were, but it is undeniable that a sizeable number of them are!
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:38 - Nov 20 with 810 viewsAntti_Heinola

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:03 - Nov 20 by ElHoop

I never get this stuff about UKIP being racist or blaming immigrants. The people I know who are voting UKIP aren't remotely racist or blamers of immigrants. That was the manor of the BNP, British Movement and National Front in their day, and no way would so many people be supporting those parties now even if they were fed up with the level of immigration. UKIP has given those concerned about immigration a voice which previously didn't exist within a reputable party. It's just that there's no plan to control immigration and you can't be racist if you don't want so many people coming in. If you in some way discriminated against them when they got here then that would be racism but you can't be racist towards people who aren't here, and you can't be racist if you think that some of those immigrants shouldn't be here - assuming that you don't single out a particular racial group amongst them.


Mark Reckless, who is likely to be elected as Ukip’s second MP today, this week appeared to call for European immigrants to be repatriated. This is straightforward BNP rhetoric. Even a couple of years ago, for a mainstream politician to make such a public declaration would surely have provoked a national scandal.

Bare bones.

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:47 - Nov 20 with 799 viewsQPRDave

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:36 - Nov 20 by easthertsr

Of course not all right wing voters are racist, and I never said they were, but it is undeniable that a sizeable number of them are!


Only because you and your like label them as such...and that's because they don't agree with you
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:53 - Nov 20 with 792 viewsElHoop

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:38 - Nov 20 by Antti_Heinola

Mark Reckless, who is likely to be elected as Ukip’s second MP today, this week appeared to call for European immigrants to be repatriated. This is straightforward BNP rhetoric. Even a couple of years ago, for a mainstream politician to make such a public declaration would surely have provoked a national scandal.


Well he's certainly going to be elected but for all their ballsups they come across as more incompetent at finding and toeing a party line than they are racist.
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 18:01 - Nov 20 with 787 viewsClive_Anderson

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:10 - Nov 20 by easthertsr

Go into any Pub, and talk to most UKIPPER'S standing at the bar(We've all met them!). I have, you get a long diatribe about 'blacks and poles' ruining the country and how they should be sent home. But they don't have any problems with Australians or Canadians doing the same thing. I'd say there was a tad of racism there myself!


So you're willing to brand millions of people racist because you've "overheard their type at the pub".

And you're the one calling others bigoted.

Why is the left so completely and utterly devoid of self awareness?
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 18:02 - Nov 20 with 784 viewsDiscodroids

ahhh the uber left wing , with their sweeping shrills of racism...a sonnet to these shell likes.

....it's thin-skinned, temperamental, ripens early. It's, you know, it's not a survivor like us on the right , which can just grow anywhere and uh, thrive even when it's neglected.

No, the left needs constant care and attention. You know? And in fact it can only grow in these really specific, little, tucked away corners of the world. And, and only the most patient and nurturing of M.P'S can do it, really.

Only somebody who really takes the time to understand The lefts potential can then coax it into its fullest expression. Then, I mean, oh its sounds , they're just the most haunting and piercing and squawking and and... anciently dull on the planet.....


well some of them anyway.

"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 18:06 - Nov 20 with 776 viewsbarabajagal

People are also happy with ingroup-outgroup thinking. Just look at our prejudices towards certain supporters. Are we not socialised into disliking those who are not like us? And when people in the 'ingroup' believe that some people in the 'outgroup' are getting advantages that our 'ingroup' don't get (perceived or truth), this dislike often turns to hatred, then the facts are ignored and lies are told. Remeber wehn football fans were the outgroup? we were treated like animals.

Here's an example, some people have linked immigration to crime, however, criminal behaviour (as recorded by police arrest statistics) is at is lowest it has been since crime surveys were taken.

"Latest figures from the CSEW show there were an estimated 7.3 million incidents of crime against households and resident adults (aged 16 and over) in England and Wales for the year ending March 2014. This represents a 14% decrease compared with the previous year’s survey, and is the lowest estimate since the survey began in 1981."

but if we believe some, immigration has caused our streets to become no go areas. for example this in a conservative leaflet for the Rochester by-election "...Others don’t feel safe walking down the high street of our town.” However, the crime stats over the last few years have been reasonably stable in that area, (with a small jump in the number of Anti-social behaviour arrests in the last few months). I don't live there, but I suggest that immigration has not caused the area to become anymore dangerous than it was say, 10, 20 or 50 years ago.

Immigration to the UK does not cause poverty, inequality has however, and that is what we have in the UK. for example, this comes from the website 'therichest.com'

The UK has more billionaires per capita than any other country in the world and London houses more billionaires than any city full stop. Since last year alone the country added 16 new billionaires and $94 billion among their personal net worth, despite the government raising its fees slightly for tax exempt “non-domiciled” billionaires. Legally speaking, most of the billionaires on this list aren’t permanent UK residents, so they pay little or no income tax at all. Instead, a fee of about $84,000 USD for long term non-domiciled tax exemptions in the UK calls it square. According to analysts, the growing billionaire list refutes warnings that raising fees on tax havens sends the wealthy running for the hills. In reality, that $84,000 fee would equal about .008% of tax on a billion dollars of income.

The duke of Westmister has a wealth of about £10 billion. Don't tell me 'he worked hard all his life'

You R's

Nik
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 18:08 - Nov 20 with 772 viewsstansleftfoot

The management of our benefits system makes Britain the destination of choice as we have the most liberal and easily abused system in the UK.
2.8 million people born in the other states of the EU live in Blighty. 1.8 Million are in work.
4 times as many EU workers live in the UK as Brits live in other EU countries.
All the legislation in place in France, Spain or any other EU country is available to PLC UK only the incompetence and corruption of our politicians and political parties fail us as the UK's citizens.
Unfortunately the failure of all Governments since the 60's has left the UK with an unbalanced economy, a failing educational system. The simple indicators are the Buy to Let housing market subsidised by Housing Benefit, ownership of property in London by foreigners and 760,000 under 21 year UK children on the Dole.
Our Governments husbandry of the Countries finances are shameful, a single man in an average one bedroom Housing association flat in work will receive benefit, tax credit, council tax of around £6500 per annum, effectively subsiding his employment to allow a minimum of £6.50 an hour. This places our gent on 75% of the UK's average wage, producing no Income tax and perhaps £600 or £700 Value added tax.
No income tax, No infrastructure, No Education, these are budgets that cannot be met and are magnified by the £46 billion we pay in interest to fund our £1.2 trillion public debt....this is not immigrants fault....it's the Bank, George Osborne, our political masters of all parties....vote UKIP, its not going to get them a voice but it will scare the shxt out of Cameron and Mandelson, enough perhaps to get them to shape up.
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 18:21 - Nov 20 with 754 viewsOakR

Will it be a major issue - of course it will.

It's not been allowed to be discussed for so long, and not it is out in the open. Farage is a far more interesting person for the media to interview than Cameron, Clegg or Milliband - this means he will get plenty of airtime, keeping the issue at the top.

Personally I don't care about immigration so much (from Europe, from beyond, from english northerners, Scots, Irish - where do you stop).

What I do care about is Infrastructure. Children should not be excluded from good schools if they do not live within a 200 metre radius only the better off can get into, hospitals should not be overloaded etc etc all because of our obsession with building more and more flats into areas which cannot sustain the population.

Have some proper town planning or whoever manages these things, and control the population of local areas that way. If services work better, are not so oversubscribed we will care less about immigration IMO.

Poll: Will we stay up?

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 18:46 - Nov 20 with 725 viewsDoughnut

My my ...the lefties are out in force tonight on here. Feeling a bit touchy about another UKIP win??? Slapping everybody down with the old 'rascist' slur if they object, in any way, to 'right on diversity and mass immigration....ala New Labour. Dear oh dear...
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 19:09 - Nov 20 with 710 viewsLblock

People pro mass immigration surely cant be living in London or any other major city... if they do then they must walk around with their eyes shut and ears closed.

It's taboo to be against Ozzie type border controls but hey ho.

Anyway, it's too late now, the county is in a mess top to bottom with this just being one of the big issues (but contributes to ALL of them)... in the end it's all bollox.


Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 19:19 - Nov 20 with 703 viewseasthertsr

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 17:47 - Nov 20 by QPRDave

Only because you and your like label them as such...and that's because they don't agree with you


No, not because I label them as such, but because THEY ARE. I am accused of lack of self awareness well ,if the Right, that brave band of Men who want us to return to the 'Good Old Days' are not aware that a large number of their supporters ,' do not like 'ethnics' to use THEIR OWN phrase, then their heads are well and truly stuck in the sand. I had the misfortune to work one year at A Tory Party Conference, the amount of overt racism overheard was quite appalling, even from M.P.'s and Ministers when talking to 'their own' audience! and NO don't 'hit back' with a go at Milliband because I ain't voting for him either!
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 19:33 - Nov 20 with 691 viewsMatch82

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 15:53 - Nov 20 by robith

In short - no.

It will probably get the most airtime, despite Cameron having been an absolute catastrophe, even managed to lose a vote on going to war FFS.

But as a determining factor, no.

Because - Westminster system & Duverger's Law. UKIP need a 647% increase in the number of votes received to hit Lib Dem in 2010 levels.

Secondly, as Duverger's Law shows in a single candidate plurality (winner takes all) system, it will always gravitate towards a two part system and the incumbents after all the Lib dems in 2010 got 23% of the popular vote but only got 8.8% of the seats. The most famous example was 1983 when Labour only got 2% more of the vote than the SDLP but received 209 seats to the alliance's 23 (for 25% of the popular vote). As such while polling intentions put UKIP at 14% of the vote, I'd be surprised if it amounted to more than 7% of seats. The two current MPs they are likely to have quite soon have essentially been incumbents.

Further - moderates who tend to be where elections are decided are pretty anti UKIP



The biggest issue for the election will actually be what happens as a consequence of the collapse in the Lib Dem vote as they're likely to poll as little as 6% compared to the 23% last time, and there's about 20% undecided by latest polls.

The Lib Dem strongholds have always been, as representative of the mongrel party it is being the liberal side of the Tories and the people for whom Labour isn't radical enough, the south west and Sheffield. The south west will most likely return to the Tory fold, the northern part probably part of the Green surge (current polling intention up to 6% from 0.9% in 2010), though I think they'll struggle to take seats.

Current UNS seat projections has hung parliament, labour short of a majority by 1 and a Tory/UKIP coalition (which would never happen) would be quite a way short.

So much like the Tories banging on about the pound constantly in 2005, it'll be the thing talked about the most, but actually have little impact on the result


Worth noting that this information is brought to you by the same people who have QPR fans tagged as Cliff Richard fanatics...
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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 20:02 - Nov 20 with 672 viewsHollowayRanger

best I don't comment other then to say i am increasingly feeling that i am the ethnic minority in my own capital city and cant wait to move out

Listen to the band play!
Poll: How much will you pay for adult season ticket next season if in championship

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 22:29 - Nov 20 with 584 viewsDiscodroids

just make sure you dont drive a white van or have a st georges cross outside your house fellas....certain labour MPs take a dim view of such flagrant pleb behaviour among the great unwashed.

so out of touch and patronising.."an image of rochester'.......white van man.

http://news.sky.com/story/1377386/mp-quits-shadow-cabinet-over-rochester-tweet



the islington glitterati strike again!
resigned 3 mins ago.

bye bye!!!!
[Post edited 20 Nov 2014 23:45]

"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 22:37 - Nov 20 with 572 viewsderbyhoop

Immigration will be one factor but it should be way behind the economy, the NHS and education. UKIP have managed to make it high profile but they don't seem to have anything else to talk about.
All the parties now want to control immigration but it may be an issue that has only become high profile due to recession and falling living standards.
I suspect we'll end with another coalition but I cant see anybody wanting to link with Farage's loonies.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain) Find me on twitter @derbyhoop

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 22:48 - Nov 20 with 559 viewsDiscodroids

just popping outside to lock up my white van , and roll up my england flags for the night, then a quick pint of spitfire with nige..


huzzah!!


"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 22:54 - Nov 20 with 554 viewsLblock

Will immigration be the determining factor in the general election? on 22:37 - Nov 20 by derbyhoop

Immigration will be one factor but it should be way behind the economy, the NHS and education. UKIP have managed to make it high profile but they don't seem to have anything else to talk about.
All the parties now want to control immigration but it may be an issue that has only become high profile due to recession and falling living standards.
I suspect we'll end with another coalition but I cant see anybody wanting to link with Farage's loonies.


The economy
The NHS
Education
Immigration

The perfect square no?
Those for mass unfettered immigration will say it enhances and strengthens the other 3 corners of the square
Those against will argue it strains and weakens those very same 3 corners.

Who's right?
I have my view and it's not for shaking as it's based on personal experiences - so to those who try to argue to me different I say... bollox

Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal

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