| Good news for Karl Henry 08:39 - Mar 28 with 6114 views | 1BobbyHazell |
The Tories are planning to tax Disabled Benefits and reduce eligibility for the Carers Allowance.
There you go Karl you talentless, ungrateful f*ck. Hopefully Stan knocks you out f-ing cold and in a beautiful twist of fate you are required needing a carer and benefits but find you're not allowed, your only solace being able to know that footballers can now buy 4 luxury cars a year instead of 3, that Starbucks/Amazon/Google etc can still pay little to no tax, that the Guaranteed Profits offered to private companies that took over OUR railways etc will continue to drain societies resources and cash even when their incompetence means they should experience a loss, that the banking and financial sector will continue to drive society deeper into debt with its control of the illusionary money system whilst handsomely paying its members for doing f**k all but moving numbers around a computer screen creaming off a percentage of all the Real Work being done in the world whilst contributing f**k all. etc etc etc
Deep breath
Love is the key
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/27/potential-conservative-welfare-c [Post edited 28 Mar 2015 8:40]
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 10:45 - Mar 28 with 1236 views | Clive_Anderson |
"driven through a pretty fierce and extreme programme"
I dunno Kropotkin seems a bit crazy to call it a fierce and extreme considering they've been the biggest wet lettuce Tory government for decades.
They've kept foreign aid, kept the green crap, kept spending as high as they could without spooking investors, kept most of the pointless quangos and bureaucracy, increased NHS spending, kept mass immigration. They even raised the personal allowance from £6500 to £10k to help the lowest paid.
They've done a bit of pointless tinkering with the benefits system and spent a tiny bit less. If that's fierce and extreme then I'd hate to see how you'd describe a half decent Tory government. |  | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 10:50 - Mar 28 with 1228 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 10:30 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
"it's about just being a decent human being and not believing all the sh1te we are fed about how things 'have to be' and educating ourselves on the deeper nature of issues that could lead to better solutions than the limited ones being offered to us"
Isn't it a bit arrogant to assume that people who have reached a different conclusion to yourself have done so purely because they are uneducated or hadn't thought things through properly.
Also you've jumped to the conclusion that because he is calling for less tax and spend he must support the dodgy banking system. |
Arrogant? Maybe. I guess most of us on this thread think we're 'right' to some degree.
I suppose I am a firm believer that the vast majority of mainstream media presents a very limited angle of the whole picture, I think it actually encourages us to fight amongst ourselves. I genuinely believe that a lot of information is misrepresented or just plain hidden or lied about, leaving us with a warped perspective that we may otherwise not have.
I think most of us know it's all a bit of a wrongun these days, I think we need drastic change but realise that it is very difficult and unlikely.
Love is, definitely, the key.
Thanks everyone, it's been fun.
Here's wishing Karl Henry a long and fruitful life. [Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:53]
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 11:15 - Mar 28 with 1201 views | LythamR |
doesnt it just come down to human nature at the end of the day
if you are in a position where you see most people have more than you , you want them to share it with you. if you are in a position where you have more than the majority you dont want to give it away to them
Politics generally is the carrot and stick hung in front of the swing voters in the middle who cant decide which side their bread is buttered |  | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 11:54 - Mar 28 with 1158 views | NW5Hoop |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 09:23 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
Whenever the Tories change anything the Guardian scours the small print trying to find any possible way it could affect "the worse off" and starts screaming and shouting about it.
They never take into account whether something is affordable, whether more will benefit than lose out or what the long term implications are of sticking with the current system. There's no nuance, no debate just plain moral outrage.
Then mindless lefties lap it up and start a two minute hate against anyone who dares to give an opposite opinion (in this case Karl Henry). They literally hate him now and wish ill on him as you can see on this thread, purely for giving an opinion that is different to theirs.
Completely and utterly mental. |
1. The story is based on documents that have come out of the government. The Guardian then gave the government the chance to gives its response, which it did.
2. It's the job of journalists to look behind spin and point out what the effect of things would really be.
3. Why is pointing out that the worst off would suffer the most from a change a bad thing to do?
4. That's a news story. There's no moral outrage or screaming and shouting in it. Just reporting.
5. The Guardian is one of two broadly leftwing national newspapers. If it doesn't draw attention to this stuff, no one will.
6. Patrrick Wintour, who wrote the story, supports QPR.
7. I'm a journalist on the Guardian. I'm proud of that. The organisation I work for tries to do good. That's nothing to feel ashamed about. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:00 - Mar 28 with 1150 views | terryb |
Is it not frightening that the party with the most elected MP's will be forming a government afer receiving less than 30% of the votes?
I have no idea how we would replace our current electional process, but it seems pretty clear to me that NO mandate will have been given to our next leadership.
Under Cameron we are likely to receive cuts in Income Tax but being offset by a rise in NIC. Plus an eventual increase in VAT. VAT being the tax that conservative governments prefer to attack.
Under Milliband we are like to have an increase in Income Tax offset by a dercrese in VAT.
Which policy is better? I have no idea, but I do know that the economic policy that Thatcher & Bush followed (the spending from the top 10% will pass their wealth down to the masses) is now regarded by many economists as not having worked & that the gap is increasing each year.
I suspect this is because the wealthy will buy their products from abrosd as that is cheaper!
For the first time in my life I have no idea which party will receive my vote in a General Election. Perhaps that is good. Perhaps it is negative & sad that I can't find one politician worth supporting! | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:14 - Mar 28 with 1133 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 11:54 - Mar 28 by NW5Hoop |
1. The story is based on documents that have come out of the government. The Guardian then gave the government the chance to gives its response, which it did.
2. It's the job of journalists to look behind spin and point out what the effect of things would really be.
3. Why is pointing out that the worst off would suffer the most from a change a bad thing to do?
4. That's a news story. There's no moral outrage or screaming and shouting in it. Just reporting.
5. The Guardian is one of two broadly leftwing national newspapers. If it doesn't draw attention to this stuff, no one will.
6. Patrrick Wintour, who wrote the story, supports QPR.
7. I'm a journalist on the Guardian. I'm proud of that. The organisation I work for tries to do good. That's nothing to feel ashamed about. |
If you think the Guardian is fair and balanced then I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Which is all fair enough really, it's just the faux moral superiority that grates.
By the way are their finances still based in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying any tax? It's a good thing if so because it leaves them more money to report on other peoples tax avoidance. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:59 - Mar 28 with 1088 views | terryb |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:14 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
If you think the Guardian is fair and balanced then I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Which is all fair enough really, it's just the faux moral superiority that grates.
By the way are their finances still based in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying any tax? It's a good thing if so because it leaves them more money to report on other peoples tax avoidance. |
And what paper in the UK (and probably the world) is fair & balanced? | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:00 - Mar 28 with 1085 views | TheBlob |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:59 - Mar 28 by terryb |
And what paper in the UK (and probably the world) is fair & balanced? |
The Beano. |  |
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:08 - Mar 28 with 1072 views | Pommyhoop |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:59 - Mar 28 by terryb |
And what paper in the UK (and probably the world) is fair & balanced? |
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:15 - Mar 28 with 1061 views | baz_qpr |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 09:59 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
The Tories have been shit, but they have reduced the deficit year on year. It went up pretty much every year under Labour and would have continued to do so if they had got back in.
The only way the Tories could have eliminated the deficit completely would have been with absolutely massive cuts, which I'm guessing you would have opposed. [Post edited 28 Mar 2015 9:59]
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Lols
Have you seen the 40 year graph of the history of the deficit? There are about 3 or 4 years of surplus in 40 or so and half of those were under Brown in the late nineties.
It is a total myth the debt is caused by proliferate spending it was caused by a massive global financial collapse the need to fund that and a total collapse in tax revenues. The main reason with higher employment why we still have a massive deficit is that incomes are down and therefore are tax receipts. There has been a massive fall in living standards for the majority and ALL growth profits have gone to the superrich.
BTW I do nt vote labour but cannot abide political BS that is not based in reality |  | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:31 - Mar 28 with 1040 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:15 - Mar 28 by baz_qpr |
Lols
Have you seen the 40 year graph of the history of the deficit? There are about 3 or 4 years of surplus in 40 or so and half of those were under Brown in the late nineties.
It is a total myth the debt is caused by proliferate spending it was caused by a massive global financial collapse the need to fund that and a total collapse in tax revenues. The main reason with higher employment why we still have a massive deficit is that incomes are down and therefore are tax receipts. There has been a massive fall in living standards for the majority and ALL growth profits have gone to the superrich.
BTW I do nt vote labour but cannot abide political BS that is not based in reality |
Yes I have and indeed there was a surplus under Brown in the late 90s up until 2000. What happened in 2000? He broke from the Tory spending plans that he promised to keep during their 1997 manifesto.
After that the surplus disappeared and the deficit increased until they left power, including years before the banking crisis you are blaming it all on - they even ran a deficit at the top of the biggest credit bubble in history in 2005 (despite repeated warnings from the IMF he was overspending).
Plus I've never believed the UK caught an international banking flu from American that was unavoidable. Canada didn't seem to suffer anywhere near as much from the banking crisis despite having far closer economic ties to America than the UK. But then they probably didn't purposely stoke the housing and credit bubble to stave off recession like the UK did under Brown:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/exgovernor-george-says-bank-deliberat
No doubt he wanted to keep the economy out of recession whilst waiting for this "turn" as prime-minister. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 14:49 - Mar 28 with 988 views | DWQPR |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:31 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
Yes I have and indeed there was a surplus under Brown in the late 90s up until 2000. What happened in 2000? He broke from the Tory spending plans that he promised to keep during their 1997 manifesto.
After that the surplus disappeared and the deficit increased until they left power, including years before the banking crisis you are blaming it all on - they even ran a deficit at the top of the biggest credit bubble in history in 2005 (despite repeated warnings from the IMF he was overspending).
Plus I've never believed the UK caught an international banking flu from American that was unavoidable. Canada didn't seem to suffer anywhere near as much from the banking crisis despite having far closer economic ties to America than the UK. But then they probably didn't purposely stoke the housing and credit bubble to stave off recession like the UK did under Brown:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/exgovernor-george-says-bank-deliberat
No doubt he wanted to keep the economy out of recession whilst waiting for this "turn" as prime-minister. |
And don't forget the extra 'revenue' he raised for a couple of years from 1999 by selling two-thirds of the UK's gold reserves for the price of a Mk4 Cortina. History will dictate that for 13 years the UK was taken for the biggest ride in history by two of the greatest conmen that ever existed. | |
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 15:07 - Mar 28 with 979 views | derbyhoop |
The Govt want to cut the welfare budget by £12billion within 2 years. They haven't managed that sort of cut in the last 5. So taxing disability benefits could be a policy that will be adopted. For me that's an open goal for Labour. If you vote Conservative they'll tax the disabled.
Doesn't sound nice, does it? |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 15:11 - Mar 28 with 978 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 14:49 - Mar 28 by DWQPR |
And don't forget the extra 'revenue' he raised for a couple of years from 1999 by selling two-thirds of the UK's gold reserves for the price of a Mk4 Cortina. History will dictate that for 13 years the UK was taken for the biggest ride in history by two of the greatest conmen that ever existed. |
Yep and he did it primarily to save American investment banks that were in trouble for shorting gold:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/thomaspascoe/100018367/revealed-why-gordon- | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 15:34 - Mar 28 with 960 views | wood_hoop |
Funny thing views when it comes to politics & politicians, I have lived through quite few different governments and endured their sycophantic policies from all sides, no doubt many of them do enter the game hoping to make peoples lives better, soon have that knocked out of them and very very few stick to why they entered the political world in the first place.
We have the means to make the lives of all our citizens reasonably tolerable from those most disadvantaged to a fair few who help is only required to be shared out fairly, the splits in how the help is distributed is frightening, for various reasons politics in this country has been reduced to nothing more than playground squabbles, I wonder how those who did introduce the NHS, one of the best things ever thought up by a government, financial aid for those not able to find the way to earn a wage, short or long term, would feel about those supposedly nowadays 'helping make things better'. |  | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 16:03 - Mar 28 with 936 views | NW5Hoop |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 12:14 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
If you think the Guardian is fair and balanced then I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Which is all fair enough really, it's just the faux moral superiority that grates.
By the way are their finances still based in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying any tax? It's a good thing if so because it leaves them more money to report on other peoples tax avoidance. |
That's not an answer to anything I wrote. That's knocking down a straw man that I didn't put up.
Like all newspapers, the Guardian has a viewpoint. Unlike most other newspapers - because it does not have a proprietor - the Guardian is not devoted to protecting the interests of the super rich. Any newspaper that is owned by extremely rich individuals finds itself sticking up for their interests: that's explicitly the case with the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph, and the Murdoch papers, and increasingly the Independent. It is not the case with the Guardian, yet you appear to think that is a bad thing.
Yes, unfortunately - and to the dismay of many of the Guardian's staff - the Guardian Media Group, which controls the Guardian, went into bed with private equity and put some money offshore. But how that discredits a story about the weakest in society being disadvanted by Conservative plans, I really don't know. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 16:10 - Mar 28 with 930 views | baz_qpr |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 13:31 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
Yes I have and indeed there was a surplus under Brown in the late 90s up until 2000. What happened in 2000? He broke from the Tory spending plans that he promised to keep during their 1997 manifesto.
After that the surplus disappeared and the deficit increased until they left power, including years before the banking crisis you are blaming it all on - they even ran a deficit at the top of the biggest credit bubble in history in 2005 (despite repeated warnings from the IMF he was overspending).
Plus I've never believed the UK caught an international banking flu from American that was unavoidable. Canada didn't seem to suffer anywhere near as much from the banking crisis despite having far closer economic ties to America than the UK. But then they probably didn't purposely stoke the housing and credit bubble to stave off recession like the UK did under Brown:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/exgovernor-george-says-bank-deliberat
No doubt he wanted to keep the economy out of recession whilst waiting for this "turn" as prime-minister. |
Canada and Australia had the nice weighty cushion of key mineral resources that the Chinese and the world needin order to manufacturer electronics and modern goods. If China catches a cold so do Australia and Canada. It's like arguing that the Russians did alright in the same period and as everyone can see because of oil wealth.
Little old UK has / had no mineral or oil wealth and is wholly dependent on services and financial services hence why it's exposure was so high.
It's pure propaganda to suggest the UKs deficit is down to ordinary government spending. It is pure propaganda to suggest the norm for national finances has ever been anything but defect. It was for Thatcher as it was for Blair as it was for Brown as it is and will be for Cameron | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 17:42 - Mar 28 with 894 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 16:10 - Mar 28 by baz_qpr |
Canada and Australia had the nice weighty cushion of key mineral resources that the Chinese and the world needin order to manufacturer electronics and modern goods. If China catches a cold so do Australia and Canada. It's like arguing that the Russians did alright in the same period and as everyone can see because of oil wealth.
Little old UK has / had no mineral or oil wealth and is wholly dependent on services and financial services hence why it's exposure was so high.
It's pure propaganda to suggest the UKs deficit is down to ordinary government spending. It is pure propaganda to suggest the norm for national finances has ever been anything but defect. It was for Thatcher as it was for Blair as it was for Brown as it is and will be for Cameron |
Canada didn't have a banking boom and bust because they had mineral resources? The US and Russia have the worlds most natural resources and they've both had banking and financial crises.
But you seem determined to pretend Labour didn't massively increase government spending whilst encouraging a banking and credit boom to pay for it despite the documented evidence so there's not really much else I can say really. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 17:55 - Mar 28 with 881 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 16:03 - Mar 28 by NW5Hoop |
That's not an answer to anything I wrote. That's knocking down a straw man that I didn't put up.
Like all newspapers, the Guardian has a viewpoint. Unlike most other newspapers - because it does not have a proprietor - the Guardian is not devoted to protecting the interests of the super rich. Any newspaper that is owned by extremely rich individuals finds itself sticking up for their interests: that's explicitly the case with the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph, and the Murdoch papers, and increasingly the Independent. It is not the case with the Guardian, yet you appear to think that is a bad thing.
Yes, unfortunately - and to the dismay of many of the Guardian's staff - the Guardian Media Group, which controls the Guardian, went into bed with private equity and put some money offshore. But how that discredits a story about the weakest in society being disadvanted by Conservative plans, I really don't know. |
If the Guardian really cared about the weakest in society then they'd be happy to stump up their fair share in taxes. And they don't. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 18:21 - Mar 28 with 856 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 18:07 - Mar 28 by baz_qpr |
So the global financial crisis begins in 2007. Look at the above the graph of net borrowing against % of GDP . So the period you say that labour borrowed us into this mess is what 2002 - 2007.
Looks on a par or less than the first 10 years of thatcher. In fact 97 -06 is the lowest period of net borrowing since the 60s.
Now you can hammer labour for idealogical reasons, tax, immigration or failure to regulate the banks or the economic system they allowed to develop but lets keep to the things that are true and provable rather than propaganda and myths
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 18:20]
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Look at the absolute figures rather than the % of GDP (which is entirely meaningless as it now includes drugs, prostitutes and imputed rents and other complete nonsense).
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-bor
Even with the GDP figures the deficit was highest in 2010.
Edit: The mistake was overspending while we had the biggest banking boom in history. Of course it ended with a massive deficit afterwards. [Post edited 28 Mar 2015 18:26]
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| Good news for Karl Henry on 19:00 - Mar 28 with 834 views | QPRMUSO |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 09:52 - Mar 28 by ElHoop |
That's an absolute spot on top posting.
Labour doesn't have a game plan at all when it comes to improving the lot of the underprivileged. It's all about sniding about public school education and 50% tax rates and spreading fear about preserving the inadequate status quo. Nothing serious about solving inequalities in opportunity or income. |
And yours is a spot on post about a spot on post! | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 19:07 - Mar 28 with 833 views | QPRMUSO |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 10:10 - Mar 28 by DejR_vu |
The difference between Labour and Conservative when it comes to the ability to look after the public finances, is that one follows the other and they therefore start from very different places. Labour leave an almighty mess, the Tories come in and have to clean it up, the electorate become complacent, Labour are re-elected, inheriting a relatively healthier economy, and do their level best to destroy it. And then the cycle continues. |
Agree with this 100%. Only this time if millibot gets in we are royaly screwed. The bloke is a moron of the highest order, good luck everybody. | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 20:29 - Mar 28 with 800 views | terryb |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 18:21 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson |
Look at the absolute figures rather than the % of GDP (which is entirely meaningless as it now includes drugs, prostitutes and imputed rents and other complete nonsense).
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-bor
Even with the GDP figures the deficit was highest in 2010.
Edit: The mistake was overspending while we had the biggest banking boom in history. Of course it ended with a massive deficit afterwards. [Post edited 28 Mar 2015 18:26]
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Are you posting a report from a newspaper that you claimed was unfair & unbalanced? Is that not a little hypocritical?
By all means blame a right wing government, led by Blair, for giving away the gold reserves. At the same time blame a right wing government, led by Thatcher, for selling off all of the public companies at prices that didn't reflect their true value & waste the revenue that was raised.
As a consumer, I would still love to have one electric company, one gas company & one railway company. Their prices were affordable. "Free choice" has led to a increased prices & a lowering standard of the service received! | | | |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 20:38 - Mar 28 with 790 views | RangersAreBack |
| Good news for Karl Henry on 11:54 - Mar 28 by NW5Hoop |
1. The story is based on documents that have come out of the government. The Guardian then gave the government the chance to gives its response, which it did.
2. It's the job of journalists to look behind spin and point out what the effect of things would really be.
3. Why is pointing out that the worst off would suffer the most from a change a bad thing to do?
4. That's a news story. There's no moral outrage or screaming and shouting in it. Just reporting.
5. The Guardian is one of two broadly leftwing national newspapers. If it doesn't draw attention to this stuff, no one will.
6. Patrrick Wintour, who wrote the story, supports QPR.
7. I'm a journalist on the Guardian. I'm proud of that. The organisation I work for tries to do good. That's nothing to feel ashamed about. |
Perhaps in your rose-tinted spectacles it's trying to do good. In my eyes it's just another rag.
Going back on topic. In the blue corner you have Karl Henry - a council estate kid made good who feels aggrieved at being taxed to buggery to support the lazy. What a scumbag.
In the red corner you have a wealthy, loud-mouthed, woman beater with a penchant for dogging. Oh, but he votes Labour; what a jolly good fellow. [Post edited 28 Mar 2015 20:44]
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