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Good news for Karl Henry 08:39 - Mar 28 with 6094 views1BobbyHazell

The Tories are planning to tax Disabled Benefits and reduce eligibility for the Carers Allowance.

There you go Karl you talentless, ungrateful f*ck. Hopefully Stan knocks you out f-ing cold and in a beautiful twist of fate you are required needing a carer and benefits but find you're not allowed, your only solace being able to know that footballers can now buy 4 luxury cars a year instead of 3, that Starbucks/Amazon/Google etc can still pay little to no tax, that the Guaranteed Profits offered to private companies that took over OUR railways etc will continue to drain societies resources and cash even when their incompetence means they should experience a loss, that the banking and financial sector will continue to drive society deeper into debt with its control of the illusionary money system whilst handsomely paying its members for doing f**k all but moving numbers around a computer screen creaming off a percentage of all the Real Work being done in the world whilst contributing f**k all. etc etc etc

Deep breath

Love is the key

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/27/potential-conservative-welfare-c
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 8:40]
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:04 - Mar 28 with 1324 viewskropotkin41

Good news for Karl Henry on 09:59 - Mar 28 by Clive_Anderson

The Tories have been shit, but they have reduced the deficit year on year. It went up pretty much every year under Labour and would have continued to do so if they had got back in.

The only way the Tories could have eliminated the deficit completely would have been with absolutely massive cuts, which I'm guessing you would have opposed.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 9:59]


I'm not suggesting for one minute that Labour are a solution, I just find it laughable that people credit the Tories with being interested in or capable of delivering sound finance. I'm not making a party political point at all.

‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:08 - Mar 28 with 1312 views1BobbyHazell

Good news for Karl Henry on 09:33 - Mar 28 by ElHoop

Er yeah, what exactly is your depth then Hazell?

As deep as piling up ever increasing billions of debt for the kids to pay off or default or restructure because the likes of you can't be arsed to do any more than fire a few shots across a footie forum?

You mean THAT f*cking deep?
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 9:35]


I see this thread is going to be fun.

For the second time may I add I don't really wish Karl Henry physical injury, it was message board talk, I was making (an excellent!) point about people who have a lot wanting even more whilst there are those genuinely suffering having it taken away from them.

No EIHoop, the depth I'm talking about are some of the things I mentioned in my original post. I have many other such subjects we could discuss that highlight the reality of where and how our financial situation is being managed in a way that always ends up with one result, and that is the rich getting richer and everyone else having less and less to share amongst themselves. As Paul Parker and Krop have rightly pointed out this situation endures whether we have Tories or Labour in, I should make I clear I support neither, although Labour may make a few superficial concessions to the worse off they are still in the hands of the Financial/Corporate sector and it's still all about how little they can get away with letting us have. All this Tory V Labour, Left V Right bollox is just a distraction to keep us thinking that democracy is healthy and in full swing as well as keep us divided as this thread rightly shows. Posters think I some labour supporter, nothing could be further from the truth.

I would be happy to discuss the deeper reality behind this debt you talk of the kids having to pay off and where and how it really came about, why it it is deliberately created and maintained, just how illusionary it is and what we can do as a community to ensure that they are not left with such an impossible task. If you are genuinely interested to know more about it than any politician or newspaper would tell you then I recommend watching this for starters


I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

Clive A - calm down brother it was a message board rant, I don't really hate Karl Henry (apart from when he has the ball at his feet). I just find it very disheartening when someone who has been given so much for contributing very little to society thinks they should have more of it. It's not about Tories or The Guardian or Labour or even f-ing UKIP, it's about just being a decent human being and not believing all the sh1te we are fed about how things 'have to be' and educating ourselves on the deeper nature of issues that could lead to better solutions than the limited ones being offered to us by those who answer to the truly powerful groups that wish for things to remain this way. What happened to our beautiful Thursday morning man cuddle love in!?

Deep breath

Love is the key
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:08 - Mar 28 with 1310 viewskropotkin41

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:02 - Mar 28 by ElHoop

Um, thanks for the lecture, but in fact I'm fully aware of the size of the debt, despite all of the 'massive' cuts made by those nasty Tories plus the 'even worse' ones that they might add on after the election if they are ever allowed to get into such a position, courtesy of our kindly Scottish brothers. The balance between austerity and common sense is always easier to make in hindsight. Karl Henry - if he had said that footballers were paid too much then I'd have more time for his sentiments about 'getting on' - as it stands he's not entirely wrong or right.


Interesting that you characterise it as a lecture. I thought it was just another post in a pissy football forum politics debate, but whatever. If you want to ramp up the hostility go for it, after all you don't know me and it's not like we're in a pub where a punch might be thrown.

Anyway, this is quite interesting I think and kind of relevant:


‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:09 - Mar 28 with 1309 viewsClive_Anderson

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:04 - Mar 28 by kropotkin41

I'm not suggesting for one minute that Labour are a solution, I just find it laughable that people credit the Tories with being interested in or capable of delivering sound finance. I'm not making a party political point at all.


That's fair enough I guess.

But let's be honest the reason they gave up bothering trying to balance the books properly in 2011 was because of the ludicrous over the top whining from the left about how evil it was. Now the same people who wanted less cuts back then seem to be complaining about how there is too much debt now as if the two aren't in any way related.
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:10 - Mar 28 with 1302 viewsDejR_vu

Good news for Karl Henry on 09:50 - Mar 28 by kropotkin41

I'm afraid that's a bit laughable though E1Hoop. I'm not boosting Labour here, but to suggest that Osborne and the Tories have been anything but catastrophic for the UK's finances is well wide of the mark. They've presided over a debt tsunami and sold off a huge pile of what was left of the "family silver" as Lord Stockton famously described it. The Tories are coke-fuelled and corrupt; trust them with your money if you like, but don't get attached to the idea that we're anywhere but already in a deep ocean of financial sh*t.

http://www.debtbombshell.com/


The difference between Labour and Conservative when it comes to the ability to look after the public finances, is that one follows the other and they therefore start from very different places. Labour leave an almighty mess, the Tories come in and have to clean it up, the electorate become complacent, Labour are re-elected, inheriting a relatively healthier economy, and do their level best to destroy it. And then the cycle continues.

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:13 - Mar 28 with 1299 viewsMetallica_Hoop

Cuts needed to be made but I think sometimes they are cutting the wrong things.

There was that copper on the debate who mentioned the Police cuts. Cameron replied crime is down 20%.

A couple of years ago I was speaking to a 'Chopper Copper' over a beer as we were helping out in his fiancee's garden. He told me crime is as bad as ever at the carnival it's just they are massaged so only 3 streets (forget exact example) are considered "Carnival crime" I can help but think the same is being done to the general figures.

Though maybe that is digressing.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:14]

Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:15 - Mar 28 with 1288 viewsDiscodroids

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:08 - Mar 28 by kropotkin41

Interesting that you characterise it as a lecture. I thought it was just another post in a pissy football forum politics debate, but whatever. If you want to ramp up the hostility go for it, after all you don't know me and it's not like we're in a pub where a punch might be thrown.

Anyway, this is quite interesting I think and kind of relevant:



is that the mini moog player from kraftwerk!

"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:15 - Mar 28 with 1287 viewsTheBlob

Good news for Karl Henry on 09:58 - Mar 28 by Discodroids

makes me very sad blob . wish you and scotty could come down and have a break at the old discodroid gaff for a few bevviesand nice grub in the smoke..

my ethans DLA was cut in 2006 and again in 2011 for his cystic fibrosis.same for all the other kids that i take for football as well.

i dont want to start a war here for once, but i genuinely wish any government would cut the foriegn aid budget from 12 billion a year to 8 billion and distribute these funds among people with these aching needs here .



god bless you and jim

glenn

xx
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:02]


Many thanks for the kind offer Glenn.,I echo the sentiments,you've got it tough as well.
Similarly if you or any other worthy R's supporters find yourself in the environs of Devil's Bridge,Aberystwyth....


....keep on driving.



Only kidding..All creeds and political persuasions welcome.

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:16 - Mar 28 with 1284 viewsClive_Anderson

"I was making (an excellent!) point about people who have a lot wanting even more whilst there are those genuinely suffering having it taken away from them. "

But you have to realise that it's only on those from the left that think that someone having something automatically means that someone else is missing out.

Those on the right think that if you take away stuff from people because they have done well then the wealth creators won't bother at all and then you've got even less for for the poor than before.

I live in a country where the most right-wing party is basically like old Labour. The other two parties are the socialists and the communists. And guess what? Far from being a land where the poor are doing fantastically well due to all these high taxes and redistribution, in reality most of the wealth creators have left (a lot of them for Britain) meaning the poor are far more screwed than more right wing countries.
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:16 - Mar 28 with 1284 views1BobbyHazell

PS EIHoop, on a personal note, not that it makes my opinion any more valid, but in light of your " because the likes of you can't be arsed to do any more than fire a few shots across a footie forum?", I should add that I have dedicated my professional ( and often personal) life to helping others less fortunate (in various ways) than me, eschewing the sort of high paid career that a lot of my educational peers chose. I know it sounds a bit c*nty saying all that, but you did bring it up!!
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:17 - Mar 28 with 1282 viewskropotkin41

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:10 - Mar 28 by DejR_vu

The difference between Labour and Conservative when it comes to the ability to look after the public finances, is that one follows the other and they therefore start from very different places. Labour leave an almighty mess, the Tories come in and have to clean it up, the electorate become complacent, Labour are re-elected, inheriting a relatively healthier economy, and do their level best to destroy it. And then the cycle continues.


Ha ha ha ha! Whatever. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. I don't give a flying fox whether it's Tories or Labour really, a plague on both their houses. Your standpoint sounds like it's straight from an editorial in a Tory paper, but me saying that doesn't make me a Labour supporter. They're all crooks as far as I'm concerned and they all work for the City at the end of the day.

‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:20 - Mar 28 with 1277 viewsElHoop

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:08 - Mar 28 by kropotkin41

Interesting that you characterise it as a lecture. I thought it was just another post in a pissy football forum politics debate, but whatever. If you want to ramp up the hostility go for it, after all you don't know me and it's not like we're in a pub where a punch might be thrown.

Anyway, this is quite interesting I think and kind of relevant:



Look I probably don't disagree with a lot of stuff that you or Hazell might think, but we face an election and somebody has to win it and what is on offer? Not much. You can't just dismiss it as all being beneath you because you don't like any of them. If footballers come up with half-baked ideas then where's the surprise anyway? Where have they been equipped to do anything else and by whom? How will we avoid future Karl Henrys if you hate his views so much? We won't because the song remains the same, particularly from Labour. The Tories have had to become less nasty looking than was the case 40 years ago. The whole political landscape is fractured but it's in danger of becoming a total mess - I think that this year will quite possibly be the messiest political year in our history, with two elections, but we shall see.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:31]
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:22 - Mar 28 with 1267 viewsDiscodroids

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:13 - Mar 28 by Metallica_Hoop

Cuts needed to be made but I think sometimes they are cutting the wrong things.

There was that copper on the debate who mentioned the Police cuts. Cameron replied crime is down 20%.

A couple of years ago I was speaking to a 'Chopper Copper' over a beer as we were helping out in his fiancee's garden. He told me crime is as bad as ever at the carnival it's just they are massaged so only 3 streets (forget exact example) are considered "Carnival crime" I can help but think the same is being done to the general figures.

Though maybe that is digressing.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:14]


not to worry metallica , its statistically proven that policeman dancing at carnival with black women with nice big bums to 'shanks and bigfoot' for the tv camera's ,reduces stabbings, steamings ,muggings and white middle hipsters wearing red gold and green rasta hats while shitting themselves by up to 23%.

if a tory or labour politician express himself through the medium of dance to 'chakdemus and pliers' he ends up on loose women declaring carnival a roaring success with only 2 or 3 unsolved murders this year by the norman jay soundstage.

[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:28]

"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:23 - Mar 28 with 1262 viewsJuzzie

Good news for Karl Henry on 09:58 - Mar 28 by Discodroids

makes me very sad blob . wish you and scotty could come down and have a break at the old discodroid gaff for a few bevviesand nice grub in the smoke..

my ethans DLA was cut in 2006 and again in 2011 for his cystic fibrosis.same for all the other kids that i take for football as well.

i dont want to start a war here for once, but i genuinely wish any government would cut the foriegn aid budget from 12 billion a year to 8 billion and distribute these funds among people with these aching needs here .



god bless you and jim

glenn

xx
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:02]


I'm glad to be able to be helping the world but i too think its now the time to be looking closer to home first. We cant solve the worlds problems, we are a tiny country with finite resources.
The politicians go on about austerity, ok then be austere.

We need to sort out our domestic issues first then anything left over can be used to help others.
I have more affinity with Gareth, Jim, Glenn etc than someone 10,000 miles away. Sorry to those people, i wish we could do more, i really do, but we need to sort out our own problems first. We cant still be paying for the guilt of the British Empire forever.
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:26 - Mar 28 with 1255 viewsDiscodroids

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:23 - Mar 28 by Juzzie

I'm glad to be able to be helping the world but i too think its now the time to be looking closer to home first. We cant solve the worlds problems, we are a tiny country with finite resources.
The politicians go on about austerity, ok then be austere.

We need to sort out our domestic issues first then anything left over can be used to help others.
I have more affinity with Gareth, Jim, Glenn etc than someone 10,000 miles away. Sorry to those people, i wish we could do more, i really do, but we need to sort out our own problems first. We cant still be paying for the guilt of the British Empire forever.


kind words mate, only been to 4 rangers homes games this season and one away, would love to have a pint with some of the chaps on here more, and your one juzzie.

we;d have a few tales to swap about our dads!

"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:27 - Mar 28 with 1205 views1BobbyHazell

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:20 - Mar 28 by ElHoop

Look I probably don't disagree with a lot of stuff that you or Hazell might think, but we face an election and somebody has to win it and what is on offer? Not much. You can't just dismiss it as all being beneath you because you don't like any of them. If footballers come up with half-baked ideas then where's the surprise anyway? Where have they been equipped to do anything else and by whom? How will we avoid future Karl Henrys if you hate his views so much? We won't because the song remains the same, particularly from Labour. The Tories have had to become less nasty looking than was the case 40 years ago. The whole political landscape is fractured but it's in danger of becoming a total mess - I think that this year will quite possibly be the messiest political year in our history, with two elections, but we shall see.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:31]


Fair point about where Henry gets his ideas from, the spectrum of possibility presented to us by politicians and the media is deliberately narrow.

Tweet Karl Henry a link to the video I suggested you watch. He'll be starting a revolution in no time!
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:27 - Mar 28 with 1200 viewsHollowayRanger

Got one here in my local paper

mother of three aged 46 trying to survive on just £100 a week and wanting a bigger home for her and her 3 boys needs a knee replacement operation and has polio so hasn't done a days work since she arrived

lives on benefits of which £20,000 of that goes on the rent alone that's more than I earn in a year in full time pay

born in Eritrean but Italian national due to marriage to Italian husband left him and moved here (husband doesn't pay anything) so we do

sick to death of people coming here and using us

Listen to the band play!
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:28 - Mar 28 with 1200 viewsElHoop

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:16 - Mar 28 by 1BobbyHazell

PS EIHoop, on a personal note, not that it makes my opinion any more valid, but in light of your " because the likes of you can't be arsed to do any more than fire a few shots across a footie forum?", I should add that I have dedicated my professional ( and often personal) life to helping others less fortunate (in various ways) than me, eschewing the sort of high paid career that a lot of my educational peers chose. I know it sounds a bit c*nty saying all that, but you did bring it up!!


That's of course very decent of you, who wouldn't think so? Howver, over the years I've seen countless keyboard warriors put up the same arguments on different forums and that' all that they do. There's no attempt at a practical application of their views, and if they are thinking way outside of the thinking of current regimes then why don't they make an attempt to bring their views to reality? People with views more in keeping with those in power still find ways to express their opinions to them, but in many respects they don't need to, but they do it. The others seem to do nothing - nothing that you can see anyway. Nothing that doesn't sound like a blind rant.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:29]
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:30 - Mar 28 with 1192 viewsClive_Anderson

"it's about just being a decent human being and not believing all the sh1te we are fed about how things 'have to be' and educating ourselves on the deeper nature of issues that could lead to better solutions than the limited ones being offered to us"

Isn't it a bit arrogant to assume that people who have reached a different conclusion to yourself have done so purely because they are uneducated or hadn't thought things through properly.

Also you've jumped to the conclusion that because he is calling for less tax and spend he must support the dodgy banking system.
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:30 - Mar 28 with 1191 viewsDiscodroids

bobby hazells a witty interesting poster who has a passion for this subject as i do re the east end and the white working classes.

jesus it would be boring if we were all the same.


fk me, i think i need to have a lie down.

"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:32 - Mar 28 with 1189 views1BobbyHazell

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:28 - Mar 28 by ElHoop

That's of course very decent of you, who wouldn't think so? Howver, over the years I've seen countless keyboard warriors put up the same arguments on different forums and that' all that they do. There's no attempt at a practical application of their views, and if they are thinking way outside of the thinking of current regimes then why don't they make an attempt to bring their views to reality? People with views more in keeping with those in power still find ways to express their opinions to them, but in many respects they don't need to, but they do it. The others seem to do nothing - nothing that you can see anyway. Nothing that doesn't sound like a blind rant.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:29]


I agree but do people have the time or inclination to listen to those views.

So, have you watched that video yet!!?
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:34 - Mar 28 with 1179 viewskropotkin41

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:20 - Mar 28 by ElHoop

Look I probably don't disagree with a lot of stuff that you or Hazell might think, but we face an election and somebody has to win it and what is on offer? Not much. You can't just dismiss it as all being beneath you because you don't like any of them. If footballers come up with half-baked ideas then where's the surprise anyway? Where have they been equipped to do anything else and by whom? How will we avoid future Karl Henrys if you hate his views so much? We won't because the song remains the same, particularly from Labour. The Tories have had to become less nasty looking than was the case 40 years ago. The whole political landscape is fractured but it's in danger of becoming a total mess - I think that this year will quite possibly be the messiest political year in our history, with two elections, but we shall see.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:31]


There will unfortunately still be a state and a Government on the 8th May, that much is true.

I don't believe that there can be two elections any more - we have fixed term Parliaments now.......... so whatever happens on 7th, we're stuck with until 2020.

What we're most likely heading for is minority Government with qualified support. If it's Labour that means SNP, Plaid and Green keeping them centre-left(ish) leaning; if it's the Tories it means UKIP and various Unionist fruitcakes and the Liberals helping them drag us all in the direction of more privatisation and presumably fracking, GMOs and a referendum on membership of the EU.

Neither prospect fills me with joy, but I am marginally more scared by the prospect of a right-wing Government with the Tories in charge. One reason for this is that despite not having a majority they have driven through a pretty fierce and extreme programme this time around.

I live in West Wales and if I vote - by no means assured as I am an abstainer and have been for many many years (another debate entirely so I don't need any sh*t for it here) - I will vote Plaid to try to get rid of the Tory. Plaid's policy of Devo Max appeals and they'reliably anti-Trident renewal.

‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:38 - Mar 28 with 1174 viewsTheBlob

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:23 - Mar 28 by Juzzie

I'm glad to be able to be helping the world but i too think its now the time to be looking closer to home first. We cant solve the worlds problems, we are a tiny country with finite resources.
The politicians go on about austerity, ok then be austere.

We need to sort out our domestic issues first then anything left over can be used to help others.
I have more affinity with Gareth, Jim, Glenn etc than someone 10,000 miles away. Sorry to those people, i wish we could do more, i really do, but we need to sort out our own problems first. We cant still be paying for the guilt of the British Empire forever.


Agree 100% Juzzie.
There's a growing demonisation of the old and disabled in the media which has fuelled violence and abuse to levels I don't remember.In the past I've had to "correct" individuals who have had a pop at Jim.We recognise the guilt but we don't see why we have to be the whipping boys(and girls) for that.We can't get militant lest we lose what we have,and it really isn't much in the scheme of things and against the ridiculous propaganda that somehow we are all rich.
All we can do is get our heads down,be as anonymous as posible in the sometimes freezing conditions and hope by that we can avoid a kicking.
I've got too much time on my hands and the reason why I'm a gobshite on here.But like others of my ilk,we really don't mean you any harm.
All we want to do is survive for a little longer.

Gareth.
[Post edited 28 Mar 2015 10:39]

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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:38 - Mar 28 with 1174 viewsElHoop

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:32 - Mar 28 by 1BobbyHazell

I agree but do people have the time or inclination to listen to those views.

So, have you watched that video yet!!?


No I haven't watched the video. I'm still in my poxy dressing gown and I should have been out doing the food shopping by now. I'm in trouble and it's your fault!

I'll watch it later though if I'm still alive.
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Good news for Karl Henry on 10:40 - Mar 28 with 1169 viewsElHoop

Good news for Karl Henry on 10:34 - Mar 28 by kropotkin41

There will unfortunately still be a state and a Government on the 8th May, that much is true.

I don't believe that there can be two elections any more - we have fixed term Parliaments now.......... so whatever happens on 7th, we're stuck with until 2020.

What we're most likely heading for is minority Government with qualified support. If it's Labour that means SNP, Plaid and Green keeping them centre-left(ish) leaning; if it's the Tories it means UKIP and various Unionist fruitcakes and the Liberals helping them drag us all in the direction of more privatisation and presumably fracking, GMOs and a referendum on membership of the EU.

Neither prospect fills me with joy, but I am marginally more scared by the prospect of a right-wing Government with the Tories in charge. One reason for this is that despite not having a majority they have driven through a pretty fierce and extreme programme this time around.

I live in West Wales and if I vote - by no means assured as I am an abstainer and have been for many many years (another debate entirely so I don't need any sh*t for it here) - I will vote Plaid to try to get rid of the Tory. Plaid's policy of Devo Max appeals and they'reliably anti-Trident renewal.


Fixed term parliaments - yeah good luck with that one.

That's the first thing that our political class will chuck into the skip if the going gets tough after the election.
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