| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham 13:16 - Apr 26 with 3584 views | Antti_Heinola |
A profoundly depressing and frankly baffling way to all but say goodbye to the Premier League.
1. Team Selection: In terms of the midfield, I can see Ramsey's thinking, even if I didn't agree with it. That midfield four had worked their little cotton socks off against Chelsea and you could certainly argue that keeping the midfield nice and compact gave us a solidity rarely glimpsed this season, so it was understandable that he kept that combination. I'll deal with that further in the next knee jerk, but for now let's look at the defence, where the changes were made.
If Ramsey's argument for keeping that midfield together was because of a strong performance against Chelsea, then I find it difficult to understand why you'd change the back four. I think Dunne is a good player - he looked finished during the second half of last season at times, but he's probably been our best centre half this season (not that that's saying a great deal), but picking him here looked like a bad call from the moment the team sheet was released. Unless Ramsey was convinced we'd be facing Carlton Cole with Nolan just behind him, I can't really see the thinking behind breaking up the Onuoha-Caulker partnership which was finally starting to bear fruit - not least because taking Onuoha's pace out of the centre causes us problems beyond just having someone who might have been able to keep up with Valencia - it means a deeper defence, a slower defence and more ground for our one-paced midfield to cover.
Then you have the issue of Isla. If we're being loyal to Karl Henry, why drop Isla after he did such a tremendous job v Hazard and Chelsea? Was he dropped because he was facing the wrong way when Green ballooned his kick straight to Hazard? If you're dropping him for that, then why not drop Green too? Not playing Isla meant Phillips only had Onuoha to support him, who's not in Isla's class when it comes to passing, movement, vision or attacking ability. I could have understood Onuoha at right back v Chelsea, to do a job on Hazard, but here, in a game we had to take to the opposition, it seemed perverse.
Still, Ramsey has earned some faith, so let's say before the game he perhaps wanted to keep things very tight, with the idea of stepping on the accelerator and taking some risks late on if we needed a goal. A bit cautious to my mind, but fair enough.
2. Substitutions. You see, the thing is, if the above *was* Ramsey's intention, then it makes his use of subs utterly unfathomable. I honestly cannot understand what happened yesterday after 70 minutes. We all knew - and Ramsey knew because he said it in his press conference - that this was a game we had to win (barring an unlikely miracle at Anfield or the Etihad). So even if he planned to make sure we were in a position to win with 20 minutes left, where was the final push? Why was Taarabt left sitting on the bench? Why did he, Isla and SWP fail to even warm up after half time? It made absolutely no sense at all.
The way we were set up, as with Chelsea, made it very clear that we had two outlets: the long ball to Zamora, or a pass to Phillips. That's it. Everything - *everything* - that wasn't pumped to Bobby went down our right side - not ideal when Cresswell had such a good game against our most dangerous player. Let's just accept that line up for a moment - but then come the 55th minute, come the 60th minute, come the 70th minute, for Christ's sake come the 80th sodding minute, surely we had to sling on someone from the bench to play on the left who might offer some kind of threat and some diversity and unpredictability to our attacks? And this is not a dig at Henry, who played well, but he is not and never will be a 'danger' to any team. That's why he didn't play much last season: teams defended against us in numbers and his brand of steady, controlling midfield play was rendered obsolete. We often didn't really need a holding midfielder; we needed someone to create chances.
Had this game been two weeks ago I would have had sympathy for Ramsey because he had no choices, but on Saturday he did. He had several choices in fact - the prime one being the unpredictable maverick with a good record against West Ham who will, given even 10 minutes, be guaranteed to create something.
We *had* to win this game. We had to. A draw was never going to be enough. So we might as well have gone down attacking than whimpering off clutching what will almost definitely be a useless point. After 70 minutes, Henry was offering nothing in terms of what we actually needed. Indeed, he drifted so far into the centre that the left side of the pitch was almost empty. Ramsey did try to address that by bringing on Yun, but again it was the wrong substitution. With Yun at left back and Henry playing almost in the centre, he couldn't maraud because he had no cover. Had he come on for Henry (or Sandro, with Henry going inside), and played left midfield with Clint sweeping up behind him, that might have made more sense, but as it was, the change really changed nothing at all. Worse: within 10 minutes it was obvious it wasn't changing anything and yet still Ramsey sat on his hands.
West Ham were awful - as awful as we were, and while we had some poor luck in terms of the disallowed goal (which, if we're honest, would get disallowed 19 times out of 20) and Charlie's miss, we never really looked like winning the game. They were absolutely there for the taking - a kinder opponent at this stage of the season we could barely have wished for.
And as this a knee jerk column and there should be some controversy sometimes, I'll say this: I was behind Ramsey. I was impressed. I felt it was difficult to judge him when he barely had a squad to choose from. But yesterday he did, and he blew it. He was cautious in the extreme. If you can't gamble in a game like that with 20 minutes left then I'm afraid you're not a manager. You're just not. Can you imagine Warnock in that situation? For the last 10 minutes we'd have been three (maybe two!) at the back, two holding midfielders and everyone else up front. Ramsey did nothing. And that, in my opinion, was unforgivable. He cannot have gone to bed last night thinking, 'Well, I did everything I could,' because he didn't. He froze, and we're down. And on Saturday alone, I wouldn't give him the job.
3. The Penalty. Not a brag, but a sad fact: I called this as soon as it was given. Since his opening day miss, Charlie has put every penalty hard and low down the middle. He was, in truth, lucky to have not missed another one since. With all the pressure of a crucial kick, he was always going to do the same and a save seemed to me very likely, and so it proved. Not sure what's happened there - last season he was smashing them in the corners, even the top corners, now he seems very nervy. Even worse, it clearly affected him badly, as his apologetic tweet confirmed afterwards. I felt, he hid a bit after the penalty - twice in the second half he loitered at the back post instead of attacking the middle or the front post as he would normally, when fully confident, and so great crosses went untouched. Still, without him we'd be 14th in the Championship right now - all I have is gratitude for what he's done for this club.
4. The Atmosphere: I don't think the fans were nervous. I think we all expected us to go out there and give it a real go - like against Chelsea, but with a bit more attacking intent. But it was clear from very early on that perhaps that late Fabregas goal had more effect on the players than we realised. With one or two exceptions, we looked nervy, worried, cautious and a bit unsure of how to attack the game. This quickly translated to the stands and while the fans did their best, they turned up expecting thunder and got damp drizzle. A frustrating game to watch that only became more so as it dragged on to its inevitable conclusion.
5. Footwear. Amateurish, really. A QPR player slipped over at least eight times in this game, and I'm tempted to say it was 10. Many of those slips were from Green, who looked absolutely petrified every time the ball came near his feet. Within 20 minutes four kicks had been messed up. I love Greeno, but he looked in no state to play on Saturday. Good save from the free kick, mind, and did well to come out to the onrushing Downing (although had he continued to run instead of dithering it would have been a much easier clearance). He wasn't the only one, though. Sandro, Dunne, Caulker and Barton all slipped too. What's going on here? No West Ham player slipped in the game that I can recall. Is it bad choice of footwear? How can we not know our own pitch? And why, when our players spent the first half looking like they were playing on an ice rink, did we water the pitch even more at half time?
6. Sandro. Still not looking anything like a £10m player, this was at least a vastly improved performance from him and he looked immensely fitter, too. Made some great challenges, almost scored, looked faster and stronger. Good display alongside the tireless Barton, who had another super game.
Next season looks terrifying, doesn't it? |  |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 14:37 - Apr 26 with 2661 views | Neil_SI |
I really enjoyed reading this, it has lots of open and fairly justified discussion points.
It was one of those games where we seemed more afraid to lose than to win, certainly, and I do think a lot of that is down to the weight of pressure on their shoulders to perform and get the result.
If it were me, I'd keep the back four as consistent as possible and currently would always go for Isla, Onuoha, Caulker and Yun.
In this match we were probably worried about the Cresswell & Jarvis combination and then where and how both Valencia and Downing would operate. Jenkinson also likes to get forward too.
It must have had an impact on why we didn't make another substitution. We were open to be hit on the counter a fair few times and we looked wary and nervous about it, especially as they left two players up front and one wide. They messed up quite a few breaks when it was three on three.
Kouyaté should have scored on the break when he balloned the ball into the upper stand, and it was exactly those breaks that caused some of our hesitancy.
Perhaps we could have gone gung-ho early on, but if we conceded, it would have been disastrous. We've not shown the stomach to turn games around once we've gone behind, so I can sort of sympathise with that hesitancy.
I didn't think Fer or Yun looked particularly sharp when they came on. You want those changes to have that positive impact and it was all a much of a muchness in the end, which is obviously a bit annoying and frustrating.
I felt we looked more vulnerable down Yun's side as the game went on, so bringing another flair player on over there would have opened it up more. I think in hindsight, Ramsey should have probably brought on Taarabt first rather than Fer. He couldn't exactly take Fer off after he'd brought him on. That did cross my mind though.
It's a pity we couldn't take more advantage of their situation at the back. Burke had a reasonable debut, but he sliced a lot of his clearances and he looked like he could have been physically bullied, so we could have done more to take advantage of that.
But we just didn't get enough quality balls in and around him or in situations we could really attack him and in the end we played into Collins' hands as he gobbled up most of what we offered in the air. Cresswell also had an excellent game against Phillips and Onuoha didn't give him the best of support at times.
We have also not looked comfortable when having to take the game to the opposition to force the issue for some years now. You could sort of see that with our play and is an area we do need to work on and improve in the future.
The footwear and slipping issue was definitely annoying. I wasn't surprised though because we'd watered the pitch really heavily prior to kick off, to the point that it did leave me wondering why at the time. [Post edited 26 Apr 2015 15:00]
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 15:20 - Apr 26 with 2578 views | Loft1979 |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 14:37 - Apr 26 by Neil_SI |
I really enjoyed reading this, it has lots of open and fairly justified discussion points.
It was one of those games where we seemed more afraid to lose than to win, certainly, and I do think a lot of that is down to the weight of pressure on their shoulders to perform and get the result.
If it were me, I'd keep the back four as consistent as possible and currently would always go for Isla, Onuoha, Caulker and Yun.
In this match we were probably worried about the Cresswell & Jarvis combination and then where and how both Valencia and Downing would operate. Jenkinson also likes to get forward too.
It must have had an impact on why we didn't make another substitution. We were open to be hit on the counter a fair few times and we looked wary and nervous about it, especially as they left two players up front and one wide. They messed up quite a few breaks when it was three on three.
Kouyaté should have scored on the break when he balloned the ball into the upper stand, and it was exactly those breaks that caused some of our hesitancy.
Perhaps we could have gone gung-ho early on, but if we conceded, it would have been disastrous. We've not shown the stomach to turn games around once we've gone behind, so I can sort of sympathise with that hesitancy.
I didn't think Fer or Yun looked particularly sharp when they came on. You want those changes to have that positive impact and it was all a much of a muchness in the end, which is obviously a bit annoying and frustrating.
I felt we looked more vulnerable down Yun's side as the game went on, so bringing another flair player on over there would have opened it up more. I think in hindsight, Ramsey should have probably brought on Taarabt first rather than Fer. He couldn't exactly take Fer off after he'd brought him on. That did cross my mind though.
It's a pity we couldn't take more advantage of their situation at the back. Burke had a reasonable debut, but he sliced a lot of his clearances and he looked like he could have been physically bullied, so we could have done more to take advantage of that.
But we just didn't get enough quality balls in and around him or in situations we could really attack him and in the end we played into Collins' hands as he gobbled up most of what we offered in the air. Cresswell also had an excellent game against Phillips and Onuoha didn't give him the best of support at times.
We have also not looked comfortable when having to take the game to the opposition to force the issue for some years now. You could sort of see that with our play and is an area we do need to work on and improve in the future.
The footwear and slipping issue was definitely annoying. I wasn't surprised though because we'd watered the pitch really heavily prior to kick off, to the point that it did leave me wondering why at the time. [Post edited 26 Apr 2015 15:00]
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Great work Antti.
In summary I have two knee jerks: CR finally has a team. A team that has looked great , a formation that worked, results coming. The Achilles was late goals BUT guess what ... Add Henry, Fer and Dunne to the Bench. 3 cEnterbacks with caulker, Ned and Clint was solid..Sandro, Barton and Isla were dominant plus Fer or Taarbs could slot into left and improve that area. Chelsea had no shots on target...but maybe we missed something. cR definitely missed Isla... |  | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 16:18 - Apr 26 with 2478 views | johncharles |
Anytime, were you listening to me ranting last night ? Mostly the points I was making but too drunk to type. How did WHAM have the correct footwear and we, the home team, were sliding around on our arses ? Why did Ramsey bring in Dunne and upset the dynamic duo of Ned and Caulker ? Why drop Isla and waste Ned on the right. He never was a right back.
Substitutions.......... Yun for Hill ? Didn't solve the problem at all. Anyway, I thought Clint was doing okay just needed someone infront of him. Yun for Henry would have made more sense. Yun always fancies himself as a winger and can cross the ball and likes to have a shot.
Adel would have had a field day. |  |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 18:08 - Apr 26 with 2350 views | johncharles |
Could I just add, watching the Arsenal Cheshit match, we did almost as well as Arsenal.
So Ramsey, why in the name of God did you change the team ? What did Dunne do to walk straight back into the team ? Nothing personal but his presence is like a tranquiliser. Everything gets slower, front to back.
That was crap Chris Ramsey and your post match comments which had become so refreshing, sounded like someone who wasn't actually at the game. | |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 18:33 - Apr 26 with 2302 views | essextaxiboy |
I really enjoy reading these , especially since Redknapp has gone . I generally agree with it all . I have said elsewhere that I think he selected 4 big guys at the back and watered the pitch at our end for both halves to counter the long ball punt tactics .
I would like Ramsey to get the job permanently , maybe he is out of his depth at the moment as a new manager pitched into a relegation battle with a squad of the previous managers . but we have to stick with someone at some point, he can coach and he is a credit to the club .
We had lots of posters predicting that when we went down last time we would do a Portsmouth , well we played pretty ordinary in the Championship and still made the playoffs last time .
I am confident that a young coach with a baptism of fire experience in the Prem behind him , a chance to blood some young players and a decent budget can give it a go . If finance rules punish us then we do our best with what we have .
Thanks for having the balls to stick your opinions out there to be commented on .
ETB [Post edited 26 Apr 2015 18:34]
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 18:41 - Apr 26 with 2284 views | QPR_ARG |
I didn't have a problem with Dunne starting as, just as you said, he's been our best CB this season. And he seems to improve others around him.
But starting this game with 4 CBs at the back was a crime. We were at home. We needed to attack. Put them under pressure. And we have two very good players when it comes to doing that in Isla and Yun.
They're not bad when it comes to defending. And to my understanding, they are both fit to play.
So if anything, bring in Dunne and get Onuoha and Hill out of the starting XI with Isla and Yun playing as full-backs. It'd be unfair to Onuoha who has been EXCELLENT in recent games. But you lose some of his and the team's potential if you put him as a right-back. In an emergency situation (Isla injured or suspended and no other natural RB available since the idiot Redknapp sold Danny to Leicester), I'd understand. Not yesterday, I'm afraid.
But that said, I don't think our defence was our problem yesterday (when the issue is keeping a clean sheet). In fact, the only player who put the ball in the net was Dunne.
As for the rest of the team, I did mention it yesterday in my post right after the game: we had no thinkers. No imagination for a through-ball. No dribbling past a rival to create problems for their defence. I also mention the same points you mentioned here, Antti: long balls to Zamora and Matty trying to get past Creswell (which he rarely managed).
We needed something different. I do expect Ramsey to use the same tactics/formation for our next game. And that'd make more sense than to do it yesterday.
Unfortunately, yesterday's game is not going to be replayed and we've left a great opportunity walk past us.
A crime. |  | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 19:03 - Apr 26 with 2250 views | Toast_R |
Annti has it right. Ramsey's biggest test as a manager and he bottled it and took us all down with him in a whimper. Unacceptable.
That Palace game still wrangles too, West Brom and Hull go there and get vital wins whilst QPR went there with Ramsey's tinkering and get well and truly floored.
He's made some improvements granted, but when he drops a bollock, my God does it bite us in the arse.
It would be utter madness to keep him on now IMHO. You can't reward failure. [Post edited 26 Apr 2015 19:10]
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 19:40 - Apr 26 with 2201 views | YorkRanger |
Well done Antti - some very well made points |  | | |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 20:05 - Apr 26 with 2168 views | daveB |
excellent as ever from Antti.
I was so frustrated with the lack of changes yesterday. Adel did't warm up second half and to do nothing in those last 20 minutes was ridiculous.
We were unlucky with the disallowed goal and really did enough to win but for me it all came from the forst 25 mins when we were so lethargic, so slow and cautious and it's hard to up the tempo when you start like that. In kept the crowd quiet and nervous and all in al it was just a rubbish day.
I'm pretty much resigned to going down now and think we will really struggle next year, watching the football league show last night we are nowhere near as good as the sides in the top 6 |  | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 20:54 - Apr 26 with 2093 views | danehoop |
Agree with most of this, Neil's point exactly, Pressure seemed to be on us and we didn't deal with it.
Dave - the one thing about next year is that it wont be this team playing in the Championship with so many out of contract and the wage bill needing to contract so sharply. |  |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:39 - Apr 27 with 1913 views | whittocksRs |
While I understand Ramsey not wanting us to concede early — as Neil says we're not exactly known for our ability to turn games around — I just can't fathom why Ramsey didn't set us up to go compleyely gung-ho at them. The result effectively puts us down. A win would have given us a decent shout at bagging a few lucky points and then heading to Leicester for a final showdown in May. The one thing we've been doing well recently is scoring goals, and Ramsey seemed to forget that. West Ham 14/15 is very much the Wigan game of 12/13 and we'll remember this as the game when hope died. | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:54 - Apr 27 with 1901 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:39 - Apr 27 by whittocksRs |
While I understand Ramsey not wanting us to concede early — as Neil says we're not exactly known for our ability to turn games around — I just can't fathom why Ramsey didn't set us up to go compleyely gung-ho at them. The result effectively puts us down. A win would have given us a decent shout at bagging a few lucky points and then heading to Leicester for a final showdown in May. The one thing we've been doing well recently is scoring goals, and Ramsey seemed to forget that. West Ham 14/15 is very much the Wigan game of 12/13 and we'll remember this as the game when hope died. |
Agree.
For all Redknapp's faults and his terrible starting XI at home to Wigan in the play-off last season, by the 69th minute we had the following all on the pitch, trying to get that equaliser: Morrison, Krancjar, Hoilett, Austin, Zamora with Yun basically playing left wing.
On Saturday with only 10 minutes of our season left, we had Austin and Phillips, with Fer as an auxiliary striker, and that was it.
I understand Neil's point too - but sometimes you have to risk losing to win and Saturday was one of those days.
My outrageous conspiracy theory is that if we stay up we have Bielsa coming in, but if we go down, Ramsey gets the job ;) | |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 12:07 - Apr 27 with 1884 views | traininvain |
Still can't get my head round not using a third sub. We didn't need Henry together with Barton and Sandro, particularly with 20 mins to go chasing a must win game. Taarabt not warming up makes the whole situation even more strange. |  | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 12:09 - Apr 27 with 1880 views | Discodroids |
who was the number 25 on saturday he didnt 'arf give that ten year old center back a going over.
the football was dire . a game of yahtzee with shami chakribati and florence and the machine on the juke box would have been better.
ramsey . a total ball of confusion on the sideline and a man who looks in torment to me. left high and dry by fernandes who has hung him out like a latter day richard nixon . a patsy most foul.
shit season shit football shit team shit management shit board room. the only thing unfecal have been the fans, who by rights should be doing a jonathon e on each other , having endured the embarrasment of another pitiful season , despite the hatfull of holllow promises by the mocha munchkin chairman
and who ever made the decision to resign greyfriars and beau brummel should be made to work in romford aldis for 6 months , you hopeless prat.
tony fernandes..he is the bird that cannot chayyyyyyyynge.
erase the c30 c60 c90 and go again for next season.
the whole season has stunk higher than carrion on the african savvanna, and epitomised with that impotent flaccid performance on saturday from all concerned . if it was a brass we would have got a refund.
from the root to the fruit this club needs a makeover [Post edited 27 Apr 2015 12:14]
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 17:37 - Apr 27 with 1770 views | terryb |
Once again, a great knee jerk.
I'm still feeling as flat as I did watching the game on Saturday. Far from angry, but struggling to think of one positive from the game, apart from they were unbelievably worse than us. Perhaps that is another negative though!
This summer is so important for the club. Please TF (or whoever is in charge), get it right! | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 18:06 - Apr 27 with 1744 views | BklynRanger |
I'd guess he's quite likely to pick that same team for the next two matches. So part of his thinking may have been to get people more familiar with whatever system he was trying to play. If that was the case it was a mistake of course - keeping it tight and lumping it into a slow front two was definitely not what we needed at home against West Ham. It just caused a total lack of momentum.
For some reason though I still can't decide if CR should stay with us next season or not. I think I'm too depressed with it all to care if he stays or goes. |  | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 22:47 - Apr 28 with 1615 views | TacticalR |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:54 - Apr 27 by Antti_Heinola |
Agree.
For all Redknapp's faults and his terrible starting XI at home to Wigan in the play-off last season, by the 69th minute we had the following all on the pitch, trying to get that equaliser: Morrison, Krancjar, Hoilett, Austin, Zamora with Yun basically playing left wing.
On Saturday with only 10 minutes of our season left, we had Austin and Phillips, with Fer as an auxiliary striker, and that was it.
I understand Neil's point too - but sometimes you have to risk losing to win and Saturday was one of those days.
My outrageous conspiracy theory is that if we stay up we have Bielsa coming in, but if we go down, Ramsey gets the job ;) |
Bielsa and Bobby. Why has no one thought of this up until now?
Nearly all our goals against West Brom and Aston Villa came through Phillips, and Cresswell stopped the supply by stopping Phillips getting round the outside. |  |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 09:05 - Apr 29 with 1527 views | PinnerPaul |
Thanks Antti - two points from me
1) Not having a go but saying CR has to go "based on Saturday alone" is just carrying on the short term thinking of the last 4/5 years - we HAVE to start looking beyond the last result, we HAVE to, otherwise nothing will REALLY change
2) Next season - easy to be pessimistic, but with such (another) high turnover of players inevitable, impossible to predict next season at this stage. | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 09:16 - Apr 29 with 1518 views | fakekerby |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 09:05 - Apr 29 by PinnerPaul |
Thanks Antti - two points from me
1) Not having a go but saying CR has to go "based on Saturday alone" is just carrying on the short term thinking of the last 4/5 years - we HAVE to start looking beyond the last result, we HAVE to, otherwise nothing will REALLY change
2) Next season - easy to be pessimistic, but with such (another) high turnover of players inevitable, impossible to predict next season at this stage. |
I think Ramsey is a great guy to have coaching your team, but he's certainly not a manager yet.
I just hope we don't repeat the same mistake in the summer and get Clement in, it'll end the same way. McLaren (even though Derby are whimpering over the line) would probably get my vote. | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 09:37 - Apr 29 with 1501 views | PinnerPaul |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 09:16 - Apr 29 by fakekerby |
I think Ramsey is a great guy to have coaching your team, but he's certainly not a manager yet.
I just hope we don't repeat the same mistake in the summer and get Clement in, it'll end the same way. McLaren (even though Derby are whimpering over the line) would probably get my vote. |
But hes only had a handful of games, with someone else's squad, no pre season and in a high pressure situation.
Far too early to write him off IMHO.
If we get someone new in and we are not in top 6 after 10 games, maybe less, I guarantee this board will be full of calls for a new man - its madness. | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 10:31 - Apr 29 with 1461 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 09:37 - Apr 29 by PinnerPaul |
But hes only had a handful of games, with someone else's squad, no pre season and in a high pressure situation.
Far too early to write him off IMHO.
If we get someone new in and we are not in top 6 after 10 games, maybe less, I guarantee this board will be full of calls for a new man - its madness. |
I do agree with you Paul, I think he's done well. My point has nothing to do with the players at his disposal, though, and all about his instincts as a manager.
While Ramsey has been given an almost impossible job, the flipside of that is that there really was little pressure on him. Contrary too what Disco says, he's in a win-win. If we go down, no one's going to blame CR. If we stay up, he'll get all the plaudits. Given that situation, and the situation where really only a win would do (which has only been driven home more by Hull's two wins out of nowhere), any manager worth his salt would have thrown everything at West Ham, at least for the last 15 minutes - although I'd have gone a lot earlier than that. For me, Fer and Taarabt should have been on after 55.
Given the situation of the game and CR's position as outlined above, it was nonsensical to not change anything for the last 20. Of course, that game didn't send us down, but it was an indication of how CR thinks as a manager. I'm sure he's a good coach and overall I think he's done well with limited resources. But to be a successful team you need a manager to be brave and at times even cavalier. If you can't do that in the situation you had on Saturday, I don't know when you'd do it. And that's why I don't think he's the man for us.
It's not about short term thinking - CR was a temporary appointment anyway. I agree, we need a more long term boss who *wants* to be our manager. I also think the next guy should be given proper time. But those decisions on Saturday, for me, show that CR is not cut out to be the main man. | |
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| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 10:49 - Apr 29 with 1448 views | daveB |
Ramsey didn't take over an impossible situation, if he was taking over today you could say that but we had enough winnable games left against teams around us to get out of trouble and we've not done enough. He's had a few games where he has done well but I'm not sure he's the right man for the job. Massive summer ahead for the club | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:10 - Apr 29 with 1432 views | PinnerPaul |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 10:31 - Apr 29 by Antti_Heinola |
I do agree with you Paul, I think he's done well. My point has nothing to do with the players at his disposal, though, and all about his instincts as a manager.
While Ramsey has been given an almost impossible job, the flipside of that is that there really was little pressure on him. Contrary too what Disco says, he's in a win-win. If we go down, no one's going to blame CR. If we stay up, he'll get all the plaudits. Given that situation, and the situation where really only a win would do (which has only been driven home more by Hull's two wins out of nowhere), any manager worth his salt would have thrown everything at West Ham, at least for the last 15 minutes - although I'd have gone a lot earlier than that. For me, Fer and Taarabt should have been on after 55.
Given the situation of the game and CR's position as outlined above, it was nonsensical to not change anything for the last 20. Of course, that game didn't send us down, but it was an indication of how CR thinks as a manager. I'm sure he's a good coach and overall I think he's done well with limited resources. But to be a successful team you need a manager to be brave and at times even cavalier. If you can't do that in the situation you had on Saturday, I don't know when you'd do it. And that's why I don't think he's the man for us.
It's not about short term thinking - CR was a temporary appointment anyway. I agree, we need a more long term boss who *wants* to be our manager. I also think the next guy should be given proper time. But those decisions on Saturday, for me, show that CR is not cut out to be the main man. |
I agree with most of that - Saturday wasn't his finest hour but that's ONE match - that's my point.
Players have bad days, they don't get put on transfer list on the basis of one bad game - they do on here but that's not the real world!  | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:21 - Apr 29 with 1425 views | Neil_SI |
While I understand a lot of the views here, we do have to allow a little bit of patience and allow people like Ramsey the room to breathe and grow into the role. Sometimes you need to give people the time and space to find their feet and express themselves properly if you want to reap the potential rewards.
Ramsey has had enough matches, but a lot of people felt we were down way back then anyway and we could have said the same about Ian Holloway in the year he took us down to League One from the Championship, but that didn't work out too badly in the end.
There are people here happy to judge on 20 minutes of football alone, which to me, is crazy. It's what we don't want to do as a club, it's the same mentality that's been set about on the players, who have constantly been signed as the next flavour of the month and then quickly written off and sold. We really need to rid of this mindset if we're going to function as a healthy football club.
It's always a massive summer ahead at Rangers, and what we need is for the owners and people running the football club to act responsibly whatever division we're in. That we're worse off for two spells in the Premier League says everything you need to know about the poor running of the football club.
I'm also a little bit surprised by just how many people are in "down tools" mode. There are still four matches to play and we can take something from each of them if we work hard enough, so it's not over yet, even if the outcome of relegation is highly likely.
We would criticise the players and the club if they put the cue on the rack, so we certainly shouldn't be in negative defeatist mode yet.
Games like the one at West Ham happen, where the pressure is so intense that you can't perform the way you want to, but in a perverse fashion, this may actually help us in the end. Why? Because there will be disappointment, there will be some regret, there will be some realisation that they didn't need to be as fearful as they were.
Sometimes you need that lull to rise again, and maybe they can, maybe the timing was just about right for them to go and play with freedom now until the end. Had they got right to the death, needing a result and then falling under the pressure, you'd feel even worse about it, and that yo-yoing can still happen, for better or worse.
To finish on a more positive note, perhaps that we have three out of four matches away from home is an advantage, given the way our results and performances have gone lately. You never know. | | | |
| Antti's 6 Knee Jerks - West Ham on 11:25 - Apr 29 with 1420 views | daveB |
I'm not really judging Ramsey on one game, I think overall he's been disappointing, he's got a lot more out of Phillips but Austin hasn't looked anywhere near as effective since he took over.
The main reason I'd go for a Kenny Jackett or possibly Warburton in the summer is that this club needs a complete new team and they have proved to be very good at putting those together | | | |
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