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Problem is Europe is about much more than just immigration. Economically leaving Europe is unlikely to be good for the Uk and that is the view of the CBI, with no political allegiance. Additionally UKIP have a Manifesto that no one understands, it's a one ticket campaign - domestic policy is a mystery and the funding equation leaving many unanswered questions.
It's other European firms that do well out of us. Can you really see the likes of BMW, Renault, Mercedes.. pulling their businesses out of the UK if we leave the EU? We sell more to the rest of the world then we do the EU and that's with EU enforced restrictions on non EU trade.
The thing about UKIP in this campaign is they actually had a lot of momentum a month or two back after the defections and by-election results and they seem to have lost a lot of that for me. I might be wrong, but I think they've missed a trick, and potentially a game-changing opportunity. We know what they stand for on immigration and the EU, that's their big selling point and their MO basically, that's what got them where they've got to. But essentially they've already accrued all the support they're going to for those policies. If you're going to vote for UKIp because of their immigration and EU policy I suspect you've known that for several months or years now. What they haven't done is really stood for anything else. Where are they on education? Welfare? Health? Their policies on the other stuff just haven't cut through, and because even they themselves admit their manifesto last time was a work of complete nonsense, it breeds the suspicion that they don't really know which in turn makes them a good vote in a by election or an EU election which are notorious as opportunities to give the party in power a kicking, but doesn't cut through in a general election. Have you ever heard anybody say "I'm voting for UKIP because of their policy on the NHS?" for example?
Like I say, just looks like a big opportunity missed potentially.
The thing is that Immigration is the number 1 topic regardless of whether or not people want to accept it. Having a sensible immigration policy would instantly take pressure off education, housing and the NHS. It wouldn't solve all issues and problems, however the pressure on these sectors would be eased making it easier to get a handle on what else needs to be dealt with.
It's other European firms that do well out of us. Can you really see the likes of BMW, Renault, Mercedes.. pulling their businesses out of the UK if we leave the EU? We sell more to the rest of the world then we do the EU and that's with EU enforced restrictions on non EU trade.
Ok here's an example on how we are restricted by the EU(Germany).
According to the EU there is free movement of trade therefore goods moving between EU countries incur minimum tariffs. This rule does not extend to goods to and from a member state and a non EU country. The tariffs imposed are high which then puts more restrictions on the possibility of trade between us and a non EU country. We have a history of exporting around the world and could do much more business with in particular countries in the Commonwealth. The EU have tried to strike up trade deals between the EU and counties such as Canada, China and the US. This would lead to EU countries having lower import/export tariffs however we'd have to act within the constraints of the agreement which we may not have totally agreed with but were out voted on.
We want to trade with the EU from outside the union and have our own trade agreements with non EU nations free from EU interference. I've noticed that it's the German's who do most of the threatening eg our economy will suffer, we'll be ignored.. Like I've pointed out before the likes of BMW are not going to stop trading in the UK because we have left the EU. I believe that it's the EU who'll miss us more, a debt riddled Union can't afford to lose one of the richer nations, they'll miss those membership fees. They even tried to impose a transaction tax knowing very well that the City of London conducts a huge amount of transactions which would mean a huge windfall for the European Commision.
The whole plan seems to be to cut immigration which is fine but they don't seem to have anything else. On the NHS it's about treating less immigrants to allow Brits to get seen, on finances it's give less money to foreign aid, all seems to be the same thing. I think they'll be a disaster but are going to get a lot of votes as immigration is a major topic that none of the other parties seem to be dealing with very well.
Any sane country has limits on immigration. I say that as an immigrant, to Canada from the UK. I got in because they needed what I do. That was over 25 years ago.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for a country to expect immigrants it accepts to - have a working spoken and written knowledge of at least one of that country's official languages - and seek to improve it at their own expense and on their own time, as needed. - (in normal circumstances) be able to support themselves and their families without reliance on state hand-outs. - respect the customs and beliefs of others - contribute positively to their new adopted country, and - live according to the Law, to the best of their ability.
What a post! I really wish I could write like this. In fact I'd settle for being able to think like this. Fkin amazing...
thanks northolt, it was towards the end of my first working day after 2 weeks off and i was gripped with bloodlust for humanity, the probation service where i work and the cnts i work with, I'd had about 28 cups of coffee and 5o pro plus to sweeten the mix as well.
i'll try to act with more restraint today, although i cant promise anything.
i did have bowies 'golden years' on the i pod today going into work while i was reading ukips mannifesto for the 2oth time ..i think it might be a sign.
'I'll stick with you nigel for a thousand years Nothing's gonna touch you in these golden years Golden years, gold whop whop whop..
[Post edited 28 Apr 2015 8:45]
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
All I can hope for is that this xenophobic UKIP bollocks is just a flash in the pan.
The vast majority of UKIP voters are 40+, compared to the younger generations who have grown up in this multicultural society and rank immigration pretty towards the bottom end in terms of importance.
Here is a prediction on how the election will go - predicted by an American guy who is rarely wrong about elections, and called the last US election perfectly, when everyone else said it was too close to call.
Looks a really hung parliament. Neither a Labour/SNP coalition or Conservative/Lib Dem would have a majority. Only a Conservative/SNP coalition would -and that ain't gonna happen in a million years.
I can't anyone forming a stable government. Most likely, they'll be another election next year...
All I can hope for is that this xenophobic UKIP bollocks is just a flash in the pan.
The vast majority of UKIP voters are 40+, compared to the younger generations who have grown up in this multicultural society and rank immigration pretty towards the bottom end in terms of importance.
you got me on the 40+ mate. bit wide of the mark on the rest of it.
i grew up in upton park /east ham in the 70's/80's..if you can find a more multi cultural garden of eden in the UK that id be amazed.
i also married the daughter of a refugee from kisumu Uganda when idi amin went ape shit, we were married for ten years and have a son.
my grandmother and grandfather looked after indian,pakastani and west indian children , as well as fostering 4 of them in the fifties/sixties and seventies At a time when they were spat at in the street in the east end. me and my sisters grew up with them side by side and have been a fabric of our lives for iver 40 years
eric okolo, a nigerian friend from my school is god father to my eldest boy.
my teacher sister is known as 'the grandmother' of elmhurst school by the bengali parents in forest gate for her work with the community in the poorest bourough in the country
ukip voters yes. xenophobic ?. never.never.never.
[Post edited 28 Apr 2015 9:36]
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
You are sorely deluded, disco, if you think the vast majority of UKIP voters are not xenophobic.
A sweeping statement Kensal - one which you cannot possibly back up.
Xenophobia - "deep-rooted, irrational hatred towards foreigners"
Is that the correct word to describe those people who are concerned at the continuing prospect of unrestricted immigration? Or is your vocabulary restricted to lazy derogatory terminology?
All I can hope for is that this xenophobic UKIP bollocks is just a flash in the pan.
The vast majority of UKIP voters are 40+, compared to the younger generations who have grown up in this multicultural society and rank immigration pretty towards the bottom end in terms of importance.
Because the majority of over 40's have got kids. Because the majority of over 40's were able to afford their own house. Because the majority of over 40's know their kids won't be able to afford their own house (or the rent).
If you think, at this Century's level of immigration, house building will ever catch up with the numbers then you are living in a dream world.
The great thing about being young is your on your own and don't at that point have to worry about all this. When you start your own family, reality kicks in.
I wish those who shout 'raaccisst' at every opportunity could actually take a moment, give the grey matter a chance to develop, and realise supporting UKIP's stance is not about black or white, latvian or liverpudlian, it's simply about numbers.
The truth is, us oldies don't need to give a f*ck. Our lives are pretty much set till we kick the bucket, no politician is going to have much influence on my life at 55 years old. However, if you're in your teens, 20's and 30's you are the ones who are going to be facing these issues for the rest of your lives. You can stick with the 'round of applause' politics but you'd better get used to a very different future to the one my generation were, by and large, fortunate enough to have had.
You are sorely deluded, disco, if you think the vast majority of UKIP voters are not xenophobic.
I cannot comment for others kensal..i can only comment on what i see ten yards in front of my face 24/7.
all parties have their unsavoury element , there are currently 14 mps/councillors serving jail time for hate crimes/fraud/violence etc etc from the labour and tory parties.
my time is spent trying to get people back into work ,finding accomodation for them, getting them rehab and over 80% of them born overseas.
im doing my bit . its up to others to do theirs.
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
Because the majority of over 40's have got kids. Because the majority of over 40's were able to afford their own house. Because the majority of over 40's know their kids won't be able to afford their own house (or the rent).
If you think, at this Century's level of immigration, house building will ever catch up with the numbers then you are living in a dream world.
The great thing about being young is your on your own and don't at that point have to worry about all this. When you start your own family, reality kicks in.
I wish those who shout 'raaccisst' at every opportunity could actually take a moment, give the grey matter a chance to develop, and realise supporting UKIP's stance is not about black or white, latvian or liverpudlian, it's simply about numbers.
The truth is, us oldies don't need to give a f*ck. Our lives are pretty much set till we kick the bucket, no politician is going to have much influence on my life at 55 years old. However, if you're in your teens, 20's and 30's you are the ones who are going to be facing these issues for the rest of your lives. You can stick with the 'round of applause' politics but you'd better get used to a very different future to the one my generation were, by and large, fortunate enough to have had.
fancy a pint one day steve!
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
Because the majority of over 40's have got kids. Because the majority of over 40's were able to afford their own house. Because the majority of over 40's know their kids won't be able to afford their own house (or the rent).
If you think, at this Century's level of immigration, house building will ever catch up with the numbers then you are living in a dream world.
The great thing about being young is your on your own and don't at that point have to worry about all this. When you start your own family, reality kicks in.
I wish those who shout 'raaccisst' at every opportunity could actually take a moment, give the grey matter a chance to develop, and realise supporting UKIP's stance is not about black or white, latvian or liverpudlian, it's simply about numbers.
The truth is, us oldies don't need to give a f*ck. Our lives are pretty much set till we kick the bucket, no politician is going to have much influence on my life at 55 years old. However, if you're in your teens, 20's and 30's you are the ones who are going to be facing these issues for the rest of your lives. You can stick with the 'round of applause' politics but you'd better get used to a very different future to the one my generation were, by and large, fortunate enough to have had.
Well then we need to stop knocking down social housing, to build new and expensive blocks of flats that actual Londoners can't afford, while blatantly disregarding the required quotas of affordable housing. This is getting sold off to foreign investors, the type of migrants that would be welcome under UKIP. Rent controls and more social housing. Less of it being knocked down for private investment to make a killing off.
Your generation were very fortunate indeed. Vastly overspending and footing the bill with the youth. Uni fees soaring, house prices the same. And we still have to pay off the pension pot of the swollen generation of baby boomers. The over 40s are no longer worrying about how much their property portfolio's are increasing in value, and starting to wonder why their 20 something year old children are still living at home.
Well then we need to stop knocking down social housing, to build new and expensive blocks of flats that actual Londoners can't afford, while blatantly disregarding the required quotas of affordable housing. This is getting sold off to foreign investors, the type of migrants that would be welcome under UKIP. Rent controls and more social housing. Less of it being knocked down for private investment to make a killing off.
Your generation were very fortunate indeed. Vastly overspending and footing the bill with the youth. Uni fees soaring, house prices the same. And we still have to pay off the pension pot of the swollen generation of baby boomers. The over 40s are no longer worrying about how much their property portfolio's are increasing in value, and starting to wonder why their 20 something year old children are still living at home.
You've totally hit the nail on the head but you seem to be oblivious to the solution.
Ask yourself, if more and more people keep coming into the country how exactly does this solve the lack of housing, Uni fees, the strain on the NHS, lack of school places? Quite simply, it doesn't. It only exacerbates the problem.
I appreciate schools and political parties have force fed on your generation the positives of mass immigration but, much as i wish they were right, they've got it wrong. That is why your age group are footing the bill and you need to stop believing all the shit they spin on you.
Well then we need to stop knocking down social housing, to build new and expensive blocks of flats that actual Londoners can't afford, while blatantly disregarding the required quotas of affordable housing. This is getting sold off to foreign investors, the type of migrants that would be welcome under UKIP. Rent controls and more social housing. Less of it being knocked down for private investment to make a killing off.
Your generation were very fortunate indeed. Vastly overspending and footing the bill with the youth. Uni fees soaring, house prices the same. And we still have to pay off the pension pot of the swollen generation of baby boomers. The over 40s are no longer worrying about how much their property portfolio's are increasing in value, and starting to wonder why their 20 something year old children are still living at home.
Would also help if we stopped the ridiculous right to buy scheme
Well then we need to stop knocking down social housing, to build new and expensive blocks of flats that actual Londoners can't afford, while blatantly disregarding the required quotas of affordable housing. This is getting sold off to foreign investors, the type of migrants that would be welcome under UKIP. Rent controls and more social housing. Less of it being knocked down for private investment to make a killing off.
Your generation were very fortunate indeed. Vastly overspending and footing the bill with the youth. Uni fees soaring, house prices the same. And we still have to pay off the pension pot of the swollen generation of baby boomers. The over 40s are no longer worrying about how much their property portfolio's are increasing in value, and starting to wonder why their 20 something year old children are still living at home.
Yep, the same old tune, played on a very old fiddle.
Divide and rule. Demonise the poor and migrants, create the 'other'. Fetishise commodities....
You're just fighting over the scraps and looking for someone to blame. Face it ,nothing is going to get better whoever wins - it can't,just too many people.
There are 22 other European countries that trade without the need to be in the EU.
Albania Andorra Belarus Bosnia-Herzegovina Gibraltar (UK territory) Guernsey Iceland Isle of Man (UK territory) Jersey (UK territory) Liechtenstein Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Moldova Monaco Montenegro Norway Russia San Marino Serbia Switzerland Turkey Ukraine Vatican City
OK, about half that list are small countries but Norway & Switzerland are amongst the propsperous countris in the world. In fact, in 2012 Norway were the most prosperous in the world with the Swiss 9th (UK 13th).
I'm genuinely interested to know why people think we'd be 'screwed'?
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Already voted (n/t) on 16:34 - Apr 28 with 1922 views
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