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So Benny the Super Yoof coach has deigned that the club will religiously play 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3 Clearly this system can work if your full backs are quality and the midfield 3 work like Trojans plus have pace and physique.
Now sometimes you'll come up against spirited well drilled sides who may play 3-5-2 and work their nads off. A team like maybe Carlisle.
So if your midfielders and front three include: A lazy fooker like JET The total plank who is WC rotating with the aforementioned JET and running into players like a bluebottle on a double glazed window An immobile poor player like Oscar Goeburn A raw and rash player like Doughty A right footed striker Reece-Cox playing left of the 2 / 3
....then I'm sorry but you're going to be in trouble I don't blame the players except JET, all the rest did actually try (although Doughty allowed their player to completely lose him for the second). It's embarrassing that our players, no matter age or experience, could not make Benny the Super Yoof Coach's system work but like I say I don't blame them, the man in the straight jacket set them up and they're not suited to it. He doggedly refused to acknowledge that Polter was being eaten up by Carlisles three and when he did win aimless punts he was isolated. On re-starts Carlisles 3 simply stretched our front 3 out, sucked Polter in by a player dropping into each full back position and then our midfielders got caught betwixt and between leaving Carlisles 5 man midfield to dominate and move play up or choose to use the flanks where our fullbacks had no protection at all.
Benny only unfolded his arms to replace line for like subs and I could not believe he left John Thomas on -- Furlong looked awful as he had nothing in front of him helping (Note - I acknowledge John got the goal via a keeper error and did actually run at Carlisle 4 of 5 times but the man is a liability defensively and is deceptively slow). I'd of matched Carlisle up (embarrassing but needed) and maybe actually taken the game to them a bit more. The players don't look like they believe in Benny or his ideas, that or they are confused. I do also wonder if the word I heard tonight that Benny has developed a very aloof manner since appointed has any weight -- it would explain a lot about the man.
Okay we lost again to a lower league team in the cup. I'm somewhat used to that. I'm more concerned at yet another brace conceded and how Benny's stubborn inflexible approach and, to coin his phrase "game management" will play out to December. Once Austin and Phillips go we have a big issue. If I was Bungle and is just banked c£23mill for those two I'd need convincing that targets to replace them are more Chery than JET. Not sure I'd let our novices loose with anymore change in their pockets, but what to do?!?!?
Three year contracts are a wonderful thing aren't they?
I hear all the usual guff about time needed, that fcukin "gel" word and all that; but I've seen nothing from Benny to convince me he's the man to steady this peddlo or find still waters. He has shown me ineptitude, stubbornness, a bit of an old boys favour approach and also is so negative in persona it's unreal
Buckle up you bitches, this could get bumpy
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:42 - Aug 26 with 2179 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:11 - Aug 26 by qprewan
I have to agree Clive. As I see it we are bang in the middle of what in most work places would be called restructuring; we are basically reverting to a low cost financially sensible approach..as Anti and others have pointed out elsewhere; many of us have become addicted to the let's go in for this or that player as the eternal answer..I myself have not been immune to it but at the end of the day I would much prefer to be in our current situation with a younger, faster, keener team although at the same time a more inexperienced and more naive one.
We need to get used to the fact that you don't just become a Swansea or Southampton overnight it will take years...If by some miracle we do go straight back up then great but please don't expect us to stay up and demand that the manager be sacked if we go straight back down. I am happy to stick with Chris and Les and see what they can build. I am starting to really dislike our moaning fan base; I don't usually like to praise Leeds but just look at their support...In living memory one of the biggest clubs and now in the Championship seemingly for ever with little or no prospect of promotion yet they still travel and sing in their thousands..
[Post edited 26 Aug 2015 19:13]
"I am starting to really dislike our moaning fan base"
This kind of statement I find as annoying as excessive moaning though!
Get real, the club does good things and bad things, makes sensible decisions and makes stupid decisions, good signings and bad signings.
If you aren't interested in any debate, discussion or chat which might include something negative just avoid message boards all together and read the official club website and twitter feed.
What does a little moaning on a mesage board have to do with following and supporting your team on a match day? Are they mutually exclusive?
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:51 - Aug 26 with 2158 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:36 - Aug 26 by CroydonCaptJack
This is what I find odd. It's been so quiet on the boards since we got those two wins yet this loss has led to a massive increase in activity. It's like a separate world on here to the people I speak to at the games.
As has been clearly seen, when we had an old manager and old players, people insisted that they would be happy with a young manager and a young team.
That has been shown to be mere lip service as we now have a 'young' coach & DOF, are giving younger players a chance are in the Top 6 albeit at an early stage, yet the coach is apparently complete shit, the players are all crap and we need more 'experience'..
As said last time this came up a few weeks ago, we have become a horrible, entitled fanbase.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:58 - Aug 26 with 2149 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 08:46 - Aug 26 by ElHoop
Have you ever played football Watford?
Any time spent planning for a game as a unit is valuable. It doesn't have to be hours and hours. I don't even know how our teams are organised - is the youth team/under 21 side on the same site as the first team? I don't want a full first team to play in these cup games, but I want to see a side that can work together as a unit. I used to love going to cup games, home or away, but I simply don't bother at all now, because it's a complete and utter waste of time.
It's the same story every season, it's the Groundhog Cup, same approach, same interest, same result. It's about as pathetic as it gets.
[Post edited 26 Aug 2015 8:47]
Yes, not to a brilliant level. Was better at other sports.
I'd be surprised if the last training session before the game the chosen XI didn't play a little match against the others or something like that but there was probably only one full training session between Rotherham and Tuesday. I'd rather the ten hours a week or whatever it is they train for is focused on the squad for league games being as good as possible. Given the changes made it would be nice if the cup players trained Sunday to gel a little but I doubt many teams would do that.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 20:06 - Aug 26 with 2134 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:43 - Aug 26 by paulparker
So after losing to a side thats always in the bottom 5 of League 2 (the old 4th divison) you think the fans dont have a right to complain ??
Sure, but the issue is there are people who are going to make the same repetitive, tedious complaints after EVERY SINGLE GAME we lose this season.
There is a middle ground for discussion about where things are going right and where things going wrong and what we can realistically expect in Ramsey's reign, which for some of us will be about more than just the results on the pitch when he is in charge.
[Post edited 26 Aug 2015 20:10]
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 20:47 - Aug 26 with 2062 views
Ramsay is on a hiding to nothing here I'm afraid. I don't blame him As such (well I do actually) but he is an inexperienced manager / coach / caretaker /sacrificial lamb for the new qpr way.
Has uncle tone actually come out and said we're skint and ain't got a pot to p!ss in ??
The fact is, we ain't spending any money on players so that must go for the manager also and the reason we have benny in charge.
Perhaps if our owners where a bit more honest about our / their finances and situation when Ramsey was hired / Put in charge then us fans may have given him a bit more slack and set our expectations a little lower. Still no excuse for a few of those games at the back end of last season though !!
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 21:30 - Aug 26 with 1998 views
Some people just can't wait for us to lose so they can get up on their high fckin horses and wax lyrical about how the end of the world is nigh
STOP IT.
Nobody is saying they are not fckin annoyed that we got dumped out of the cup by a crap 4th division team. That is not the point at all. The point is STOP IT! Grow a backbone. We are 4 league games into the season and the team is beginning to look like it might be gelling. Now is a stupid as hell time to be rolling out the "Sack Ramsey" banners. You know nothing about what is going on yet. NOTHING. The trajectory in the League is up (lose, draw, win, win) and we will only know that for sure after a few more games -- lets say 6-11 more games or Xmas or something. If you wanna whine about how annoying it is that we lost in the cup then nobody is going to complain or disagree. But trying to tie that in with some sort of general malaise around the club, there simply isn't any evidence of that. You just make yourself look ridiculous when you jump to such negative conclusions so fast.
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 21:30 - Aug 26 by DylanP
Some people just can't wait for us to lose so they can get up on their high fckin horses and wax lyrical about how the end of the world is nigh
STOP IT.
Nobody is saying they are not fckin annoyed that we got dumped out of the cup by a crap 4th division team. That is not the point at all. The point is STOP IT! Grow a backbone. We are 4 league games into the season and the team is beginning to look like it might be gelling. Now is a stupid as hell time to be rolling out the "Sack Ramsey" banners. You know nothing about what is going on yet. NOTHING. The trajectory in the League is up (lose, draw, win, win) and we will only know that for sure after a few more games -- lets say 6-11 more games or Xmas or something. If you wanna whine about how annoying it is that we lost in the cup then nobody is going to complain or disagree. But trying to tie that in with some sort of general malaise around the club, there simply isn't any evidence of that. You just make yourself look ridiculous when you jump to such negative conclusions so fast.
Very true and becoming a little too predictable when we lose.
clearly no-one wants to lose to Carlisle but the side we put out is not championship quality so the gap between the actual teams was not 2 divisions. However, if those that played gained valuable experience albeit in defeat then you can only hope it will help them should they need to fill in for the 1st team.
Ramsey will make mistakes just like the players and he will improve but surely fans have seen signs of promise from numerous players however not last night.
I'd understand this sort of thread if we'd shown very little in all our games but some of the football has been excellent but it is clear we are not quite promotion material but we didn't expect to be, did we? Also, if he's clueless when we lose, is he the messiah if we win??? Just a little bit of realism required.
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:36 - Aug 26 by CroydonCaptJack
This is what I find odd. It's been so quiet on the boards since we got those two wins yet this loss has led to a massive increase in activity. It's like a separate world on here to the people I speak to at the games.
Being so far removed from a lot of other fans, I was starting to worry that the message board was a real reflection of how the broader fan base is feeling and that everyone was going out of their minds
Refreshing to hear that it might not be THAT representative...
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 23:56 - Aug 26 with 1775 views
L block you have certainly put the cat among the pigeons as this is somewhere around the 110th reply. A fella that I know who was sitting behind me last night was of the view that Ramsay wanted to lose. I am not sure I agree. He said a few things as we all do but one thing stuck as I left he turned and said to me if Austen goes we're f***ked and somehow that stuck. I am not quite sure that this can really be explained in binary terms but there are arguably two schools of thought. We are a work in progress or Ramsay is out of his depth.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 00:23 - Aug 27 with 1738 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 23:56 - Aug 26 by LadbrokeR
L block you have certainly put the cat among the pigeons as this is somewhere around the 110th reply. A fella that I know who was sitting behind me last night was of the view that Ramsay wanted to lose. I am not sure I agree. He said a few things as we all do but one thing stuck as I left he turned and said to me if Austen goes we're f***ked and somehow that stuck. I am not quite sure that this can really be explained in binary terms but there are arguably two schools of thought. We are a work in progress or Ramsay is out of his depth.
Hows the sale or non sale of Austin Ramseys fault? We're a work in progress if Ramsey is here or not. Results show that Ramsey is not out of his depth as some have suggested. Long way to go though.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 04:19 - Aug 27 with 1644 views
The League Cup game was a training exercise for our second team. For fx sake. Annoying, but not the slightest bit indicative.
Only one player who was playing on Saturday and that was Hall, who is only a handful of games into his QPR career. I believe there were at least 2 players out there making their full professional debut and Smithies was making his QPR debut. There was lots of youth getting a chance alongside others who haven't started any league games this season; so this was a chance for all of them to start getting match sharp and build understanding. Quite a few of these players may be playing for us if the injuries start to accumulate.
So, it is what it is, but if you think it means anything then you are clueless.
It wasn't me that made the comment but the remark about Auste refers to the quality of the other forwards which is down to Ramsay. I would argue that all not teams that lose players remain a work in progress for the same amount of time look at Southampton last season. For the record I thin that we are a work in progress and that he should be given until November. All this knives out at every available opportunity is counter productive.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 06:33 - Aug 27 with 1616 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 05:44 - Aug 27 by LadbrokeR
It wasn't me that made the comment but the remark about Auste refers to the quality of the other forwards which is down to Ramsay. I would argue that all not teams that lose players remain a work in progress for the same amount of time look at Southampton last season. For the record I thin that we are a work in progress and that he should be given until November. All this knives out at every available opportunity is counter productive.
Well I have no ITK knowledge but when you say the quality of the other forwards is down to Ramsey I would hazard a guess that Ferdinand is far more in control of transfers than Ramsey.
Ramsey is a coach reporting to a Director of football and he is tying to get results with the resources made available. It would appear that the Management also decided NOT to risk any of the first team players on the Carling Cup and it's now been proved that most of our back up players are not ready for first team action.
That's where we are in the rebuilding its a MASSiVE work in progress and now that we are working within the restrictions of FFP people need to lower their expectations.
[Post edited 27 Aug 2015 6:35]
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 08:05 - Aug 27 with 1548 views
I just think its a pity we didn't try and win the game,even with the team he put out we could have bought Philips on at some point and tried to take it to extra time.
If the draw had been the other way round ( Liverpool at home ) it would have been a full house? under the lights,we would have lost probably but it would be a good night out with my mates.
Feel short changed as a season ticket holder,don't enter these cups if we aren't going to take it seriously it's our only chance of winning something.
I'd take a good cup run and wembley trip over mid table or even promotion and another likely relegation.
[Post edited 27 Aug 2015 8:06]
I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 08:12 - Aug 27 with 1531 views
Have thought about this a lot since the game and I would have liked us to have a bit of a cup run as it would have added a bit of sparkle to what looks like being a grind of a season, But although lots of people have said that with the team we put out we were bound to lose I think Ramsey could justifiably have expected that they would be strong enough to deal with a bottom League 2 side. Nearly half of that side had a lot of experience of playing in the Championship-Hill,Hall, Gobern, Hoillett and JET,plus Polter in the German second tier. Of the youngsters. people were raving about Kpekawa until that game and had clamoured for the inclusion of Grego-Cox at the end of last season. Until Tuesday many people had been saying how good Doughty was and Furlong had aquitted himself admirably in his first appearance in the premier League last year so it wasn't unreasonable to expect he could handle a League 2 winger. Add a keeper thought to be one of the best in league One last year and I think Ramsey could reasonably have expected he'd put enough on the pitch to beat Carlisle. In the event, of couse, a lot of these players under-performed so much that they badly let down the fans, the club and the manager who'd trusted them to do a job. I'm far from being Ramsey's greatest fan but I don't blame him for this one. One thing I would agree with Ladbroke's mate on though is this. If we lose Charlie on deadline day and are left with nothing more than our present strike force we are f-cked well and truly and it's going to be a relegation struggle.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 08:38 - Aug 27 with 1508 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:51 - Aug 26 by Northernr
Don't think some of the essays on here are slightly over the top? I mean we lost 2-0 to Port Vale the year we won the league under Warnock. Seems an odd stick to beat Ramsey with - all our managers, successful and otherwise, have bombed in that competition every year in very similar style, apart from Dowie actually.
And, as said previously, deathly quiet on here after Wolves last week. It really feels like some people are eagerly waiting for each defeat so they can kick off, and each win is met with a grudging "well the Wolves keeper was sht" or "Rotherham are crap". Every set back is met with an absolute outpouring, multiple threads, huge posts. Each win gets relatively very little response.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Spot on, been saying that for years and its 100% true.
Human nature I guess, a grand prix with crashes, a horse race with fallers all seen as "exciting"
The biggest newspaper stories are about bad news or some disaster, we just seem to revel in misery and misfortune and on here some are experts at it!
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 08:40 - Aug 27 with 1502 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 20:47 - Aug 26 by actonman
Ramsay is on a hiding to nothing here I'm afraid. I don't blame him As such (well I do actually) but he is an inexperienced manager / coach / caretaker /sacrificial lamb for the new qpr way.
Has uncle tone actually come out and said we're skint and ain't got a pot to p!ss in ??
The fact is, we ain't spending any money on players so that must go for the manager also and the reason we have benny in charge.
Perhaps if our owners where a bit more honest about our / their finances and situation when Ramsey was hired / Put in charge then us fans may have given him a bit more slack and set our expectations a little lower. Still no excuse for a few of those games at the back end of last season though !!
That's not quite true.
As we stand at the moment I bet we have one of, if not, the, highest wage bill in this league.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 08:56 - Aug 27 with 1475 views
Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 05:44 - Aug 27 by LadbrokeR
It wasn't me that made the comment but the remark about Auste refers to the quality of the other forwards which is down to Ramsay. I would argue that all not teams that lose players remain a work in progress for the same amount of time look at Southampton last season. For the record I thin that we are a work in progress and that he should be given until November. All this knives out at every available opportunity is counter productive.
Player sales and acquisitions are the remit of the director of football not the head coach. This is why Ramsey or any other person can't be the manager, it doesn't fit with our new approach.
We can't even judge Les on the quality of the team he's put together because nobody knows the budget he's working to.
Anyway regarding the loss to Carlisle it's a massive over reaction. Those players will be knocking on CR door throughout the season asking why they're not selected, now he's given them a chance he can remind them of how it went. Arguably they should have won regardless but they clearly aren't where they should be in terms of quality.
I also don't buy the argument that risking the first team would be worth it for building confidence. How would beating Carlisle give the confidence, as someone pointed out they are consistently bottom of league two. It's like saying you could give a striker confidence by letting him smash in goals against the u18s.
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Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 09:00 - Aug 27 with 1452 views
The problem with using these games to 'blood youngsters' is that it's all a little artificial. The reality is one or two of them may need to fill in with the first team at some point, just not all at the same time.
Take Doughty as an example. He hasn't appeared out of place when alongside Henry or Farlington, but asking him to be the main man in the midfield is a bit much at the moment.
Put 2-3 in at any one time; 10 changes is a bit ridiculous really.
Still, not convinced that a cup run was on the priority list this season...
This is also the same cup competition that has already seen;
Brentford dicked at home by Oxford Hull taken to penalties by Accrington Blackburn beaten by Shrewsbury Huddersfield beaten at home by Notts Co Luton beating Bristol City and then taking Stoke to penalties Millwall losing to Barnet Walsall beating Nottingham Forest - at Forest Port Vale beating Burnley Bolton losing at home to Burton
That doesn't include the last few days either, multiple teams in the premiership being taken to extra time including Palace at home, Villa at home, Everton last night - all too lower league teams, some of which 3 divisions below. It's not as if losing in this competition at this stage of the season is an anomaly. Especially when you're playing so many youngsters and rotating a team at the beginning of a 50+ game season.
The reaction and outpouring, especially after such a great week in the league, is bordering on spoilt and shows that Ramsey is on a hiding to nothing with some fans, despie being a key part of a change within QPR that we were all screaming out for.
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