| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? 23:10 - Aug 25 with 20527 views | Lblock |
So Benny the Super Yoof coach has deigned that the club will religiously play 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3
Clearly this system can work if your full backs are quality and the midfield 3 work like Trojans plus have pace and physique.
Now sometimes you'll come up against spirited well drilled sides who may play 3-5-2 and work their nads off. A team like maybe Carlisle.
So if your midfielders and front three include:
A lazy fooker like JET
The total plank who is WC rotating with the aforementioned JET and running into players like a bluebottle on a double glazed window
An immobile poor player like Oscar Goeburn
A raw and rash player like Doughty
A right footed striker Reece-Cox playing left of the 2 / 3
....then I'm sorry but you're going to be in trouble
I don't blame the players except JET, all the rest did actually try (although Doughty allowed their player to completely lose him for the second).
It's embarrassing that our players, no matter age or experience, could not make Benny the Super Yoof Coach's system work but like I say I don't blame them, the man in the straight jacket set them up and they're not suited to it.
He doggedly refused to acknowledge that Polter was being eaten up by Carlisles three and when he did win aimless punts he was isolated. On re-starts Carlisles 3 simply stretched our front 3 out, sucked Polter in by a player dropping into each full back position and then our midfielders got caught betwixt and between leaving Carlisles 5 man midfield to dominate and move play up or choose to use the flanks where our fullbacks had no protection at all.
Benny only unfolded his arms to replace line for like subs and I could not believe he left John Thomas on -- Furlong looked awful as he had nothing in front of him helping
(Note - I acknowledge John got the goal via a keeper error and did actually run at Carlisle 4 of 5 times but the man is a liability defensively and is deceptively slow). I'd of matched Carlisle up (embarrassing but needed) and maybe actually taken the game to them a bit more. The players don't look like they believe in Benny or his ideas, that or they are confused. I do also wonder if the word I heard tonight that Benny has developed a very aloof manner since appointed has any weight -- it would explain a lot about the man.
Okay we lost again to a lower league team in the cup. I'm somewhat used to that. I'm more concerned at yet another brace conceded and how Benny's stubborn inflexible approach and, to coin his phrase "game management" will play out to December.
Once Austin and Phillips go we have a big issue. If I was Bungle and is just banked c£23mill for those two I'd need convincing that targets to replace them are more Chery than JET. Not sure I'd let our novices loose with anymore change in their pockets, but what to do?!?!?
Three year contracts are a wonderful thing aren't they?
I hear all the usual guff about time needed, that fcukin "gel" word and all that; but I've seen nothing from Benny to convince me he's the man to steady this peddlo or find still waters. He has shown me ineptitude, stubbornness, a bit of an old boys favour approach and also is so negative in persona it's unreal
Buckle up you bitches, this could get bumpy
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:02 - Aug 27 with 1910 views | ElHoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 11:28 - Aug 27 by Antti_Heinola |
Paul, that's not what I meant mate. You try reading a bit more.
I think plenty of people have explained their criticisms very well. I was responding to a comment that people who are being a little more circumspect aren't looking at the team, or aren't making any criticisms, which they are and do.
Some of the more negative posters, however, resort to childish insults and go way over the top. That's it. There are plenty of good points made about mistakes made Tue night and this season that I completely agree with. [Post edited 27 Aug 2015 11:29]
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I wasn't saying 'that people who are being a little more circumspect aren't looking at the team, or aren't making any criticisms'
What I was saying was that you want to do that AND be critical of those who aren't very happy about some things. It's a sort of having your cake and eating it type of situation. Those who think that 'lose cup games is what we do' are perfectly entitled to that view but they might as well say that and shut up and move on and leave the rest of us to discuss losing cup games. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:15 - Aug 27 with 1888 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:02 - Aug 27 by ElHoop |
I wasn't saying 'that people who are being a little more circumspect aren't looking at the team, or aren't making any criticisms'
What I was saying was that you want to do that AND be critical of those who aren't very happy about some things. It's a sort of having your cake and eating it type of situation. Those who think that 'lose cup games is what we do' are perfectly entitled to that view but they might as well say that and shut up and move on and leave the rest of us to discuss losing cup games. |
Yeah,let's leave it here, ElHoop. The entire board is having more fun yanking their fingernails out of their sockets than reading this mess of incredibly boring crossed wires and misunderstandings.
Let's agree to this, shall we: You talk b0ll0cks, I don't. Fair?
;) |  |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:19 - Aug 27 with 1872 views | qprewan |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 19:42 - Aug 26 by adhoc_qpr |
"I am starting to really dislike our moaning fan base"
This kind of statement I find as annoying as excessive moaning though!
Get real, the club does good things and bad things, makes sensible decisions and makes stupid decisions, good signings and bad signings.
If you aren't interested in any debate, discussion or chat which might include something negative just avoid message boards all together and read the official club website and twitter feed.
What does a little moaning on a mesage board have to do with following and supporting your team on a match day? Are they mutually exclusive? |
Actually I don't give a monkey about what people say on here; of course it's their right; I am more concerned with the general attitude at games where a big minority booed Charlie at Charlton and booed the team after Cardiff; no need and makes us look like spoilt brats... |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:21 - Aug 27 with 1864 views | simmo |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 10:12 - Aug 27 by paulparker |
Sorry Simmo i dont think the outpouring over the defeat to the mighty Carlisle has been that bad, so are we not allowed to say anything after being dumped out the cup, do we keep schtum
Ramsey will take the plaudits for beating 2 teams in the week so he has to take the stick for losing to a lower league side , the team, the tactics, the subs are all down to him are they not ?
he got it wrong , this is a forum and fans have every right to voice there concerns,
we all know this is work in progress at QPR , i think 90% of this MB have accepted that and tbf most of us dont care about the Prem
but that doesnt mean all of us have to accept that Ramsey is the best man for the job either , infact i think he is out of his depth
when i go the team gets my support , i want to be proved wrong about ramsey but when he picks a midfield of Goeburn, Doherty & Hoilett, weakens our already shot defence and takes the cup half ars ed then he does himself no favours |
To be fair, Paul, I enjoy your side of the disagreement because you back up your critisicms, you offer alternatives and point to other exampls, etc. The worst people are those that send tweets to Fernandes and Ian Taylor saying how we're shit and pointing at everything with a QPR badge in it as the reason, and you're not that. I also don't think you shouldn't voice concerns, as you say it's the nature of a forum and we're all mass debaters I'm sure... It's just asking for people to look at the bigger picture and reset expectations slightly, also the 'plaudits' when he leads us to victory away from home when 2 goals behind compared to a minor loss in a league cup game, is disproportionate, that's what people take umbrage with. By the same token, my point is not to always defend Ramsey because he is going to be our Alex Ferguson, because I don't think he will. There are plenty of things that he does that really pi$$ me off - he makes subs too late, he sometimes contradicts what he says with picking his first 11 (Henry not 1 min of pre-season but starts every game??), bringing SWP on against City so he can get his reception (that properly makes me angry, even just writing it again), the home game against West Ham last season, etc. I think he benefitted a lot not because he was an excellent alternative to Redknapp, but simply because he wasn't Redknapp and anybody but that self serving crook was a preferable option.
But - as much as there are things I don't like, and performances I think we could have improved on, and results that should have been better - I genuinely believe his positives far outweigh the negatives. There are not many managers that would be happy to operate under the newly introduced restraints at QPR, 'Arry got a whiff of it and fcked off as far as his crutches could carry him. Imagine suddenly working to a Burnley budget when you'e previously been a lite Man City - trying to balance the old and well paid vs the new and hungry, no longer able to use finances as an incentive to come and play in an 18k ground with a reputation for farce, it must be a nightmare. Some people say that makes Ramsey a stooge - but anybody that is willing to accept working in limited conditions can be perceived that way. To me he's a man that knows this is the biggest and best opportunity of his career and he's motivated by that to make the most of it - no different to the same policy we are all fans of when it comes to player recruitment. He carries himself well, he introduces a code of ethics and behaviours that in some ways at QPR were as needed as 3pts on a Saturday, and he is happy to put things in place and make QPR a better club than when he found it without doing it purely to enhance his own status. That's so important at QPR after years and years of people taking from us without ever giving back.
Now none of this would matter if he was not showing any signs at all of doing what he's supposed to be good at, but I think he is. 1 year ago most people probably couldn't name 5 EDL players - now we can name 5 that started in the last game alone. Players have joined from other clubs and hit the ground running, Luongo is being utlised to great effect in 2 positions, Phillips has become a £10m player, He's brought Faurlin back in the right way, the team as a unit moves forward and attacks teams in a way nobody has yet been able to cope with. There are downsides to that, but again I would rather be excited watching a 4-3 scoreline either way than being bored to tears with 1-0 nicked wins against teams on 5% of our budget. It's not as if all of it isn;t working, just that there isn't a good enough balance yet.
Ultimately I am still not sure if it's going to 'work out' in the very long term with this Les and Chris experiment, but this club has been fcked over royally in the last 5 years especially. It's become a horrible club to support sometimes, removing staff with QPR links, selling commited players, making cnts millionaires, etc. If we're going to get away from that we need to swerve violently in the other direction and start to build proper foundations. You can't do that and maintain results and great performances - so I am happy to forego those in the short term to restore some identity and bring QPR closer to the club I loved, for me, for my son, for my friends of which I am usually the only QPR fan they know so pay a vague interest. Of course that doesn't mean I don't get angry watching a game when we are playing badly, or won't need alcohol and time alone to get over a defeat and stop it ruining my weekend. But I am willing to forgive a lot more than usual because I can see us moving closer to a club I like and further away from the cnt pit it was before. I have put my trust in Chris, Ramsey, Lee Hoos and the others, just hoping that this time they will finally start to get it right. They might not have more than our best interests at the moment, but that's enough to be getting on with.
I've ended up rambling here. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:26 - Aug 27 with 1836 views | Pommyhoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:21 - Aug 27 by simmo |
To be fair, Paul, I enjoy your side of the disagreement because you back up your critisicms, you offer alternatives and point to other exampls, etc. The worst people are those that send tweets to Fernandes and Ian Taylor saying how we're shit and pointing at everything with a QPR badge in it as the reason, and you're not that. I also don't think you shouldn't voice concerns, as you say it's the nature of a forum and we're all mass debaters I'm sure... It's just asking for people to look at the bigger picture and reset expectations slightly, also the 'plaudits' when he leads us to victory away from home when 2 goals behind compared to a minor loss in a league cup game, is disproportionate, that's what people take umbrage with. By the same token, my point is not to always defend Ramsey because he is going to be our Alex Ferguson, because I don't think he will. There are plenty of things that he does that really pi$$ me off - he makes subs too late, he sometimes contradicts what he says with picking his first 11 (Henry not 1 min of pre-season but starts every game??), bringing SWP on against City so he can get his reception (that properly makes me angry, even just writing it again), the home game against West Ham last season, etc. I think he benefitted a lot not because he was an excellent alternative to Redknapp, but simply because he wasn't Redknapp and anybody but that self serving crook was a preferable option.
But - as much as there are things I don't like, and performances I think we could have improved on, and results that should have been better - I genuinely believe his positives far outweigh the negatives. There are not many managers that would be happy to operate under the newly introduced restraints at QPR, 'Arry got a whiff of it and fcked off as far as his crutches could carry him. Imagine suddenly working to a Burnley budget when you'e previously been a lite Man City - trying to balance the old and well paid vs the new and hungry, no longer able to use finances as an incentive to come and play in an 18k ground with a reputation for farce, it must be a nightmare. Some people say that makes Ramsey a stooge - but anybody that is willing to accept working in limited conditions can be perceived that way. To me he's a man that knows this is the biggest and best opportunity of his career and he's motivated by that to make the most of it - no different to the same policy we are all fans of when it comes to player recruitment. He carries himself well, he introduces a code of ethics and behaviours that in some ways at QPR were as needed as 3pts on a Saturday, and he is happy to put things in place and make QPR a better club than when he found it without doing it purely to enhance his own status. That's so important at QPR after years and years of people taking from us without ever giving back.
Now none of this would matter if he was not showing any signs at all of doing what he's supposed to be good at, but I think he is. 1 year ago most people probably couldn't name 5 EDL players - now we can name 5 that started in the last game alone. Players have joined from other clubs and hit the ground running, Luongo is being utlised to great effect in 2 positions, Phillips has become a £10m player, He's brought Faurlin back in the right way, the team as a unit moves forward and attacks teams in a way nobody has yet been able to cope with. There are downsides to that, but again I would rather be excited watching a 4-3 scoreline either way than being bored to tears with 1-0 nicked wins against teams on 5% of our budget. It's not as if all of it isn;t working, just that there isn't a good enough balance yet.
Ultimately I am still not sure if it's going to 'work out' in the very long term with this Les and Chris experiment, but this club has been fcked over royally in the last 5 years especially. It's become a horrible club to support sometimes, removing staff with QPR links, selling commited players, making cnts millionaires, etc. If we're going to get away from that we need to swerve violently in the other direction and start to build proper foundations. You can't do that and maintain results and great performances - so I am happy to forego those in the short term to restore some identity and bring QPR closer to the club I loved, for me, for my son, for my friends of which I am usually the only QPR fan they know so pay a vague interest. Of course that doesn't mean I don't get angry watching a game when we are playing badly, or won't need alcohol and time alone to get over a defeat and stop it ruining my weekend. But I am willing to forgive a lot more than usual because I can see us moving closer to a club I like and further away from the cnt pit it was before. I have put my trust in Chris, Ramsey, Lee Hoos and the others, just hoping that this time they will finally start to get it right. They might not have more than our best interests at the moment, but that's enough to be getting on with.
I've ended up rambling here. |
Brilliant post. [Post edited 27 Aug 2015 12:29]
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:29 - Aug 27 with 1830 views | ElHoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:15 - Aug 27 by Antti_Heinola |
Yeah,let's leave it here, ElHoop. The entire board is having more fun yanking their fingernails out of their sockets than reading this mess of incredibly boring crossed wires and misunderstandings.
Let's agree to this, shall we: You talk b0ll0cks, I don't. Fair?
;) |
Look, I AM me, so I know that I talk loads and loads of bollocks.
It's just the other people that I'm not sure about! | | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:45 - Aug 27 with 1806 views | paulparker |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:21 - Aug 27 by simmo |
To be fair, Paul, I enjoy your side of the disagreement because you back up your critisicms, you offer alternatives and point to other exampls, etc. The worst people are those that send tweets to Fernandes and Ian Taylor saying how we're shit and pointing at everything with a QPR badge in it as the reason, and you're not that. I also don't think you shouldn't voice concerns, as you say it's the nature of a forum and we're all mass debaters I'm sure... It's just asking for people to look at the bigger picture and reset expectations slightly, also the 'plaudits' when he leads us to victory away from home when 2 goals behind compared to a minor loss in a league cup game, is disproportionate, that's what people take umbrage with. By the same token, my point is not to always defend Ramsey because he is going to be our Alex Ferguson, because I don't think he will. There are plenty of things that he does that really pi$$ me off - he makes subs too late, he sometimes contradicts what he says with picking his first 11 (Henry not 1 min of pre-season but starts every game??), bringing SWP on against City so he can get his reception (that properly makes me angry, even just writing it again), the home game against West Ham last season, etc. I think he benefitted a lot not because he was an excellent alternative to Redknapp, but simply because he wasn't Redknapp and anybody but that self serving crook was a preferable option.
But - as much as there are things I don't like, and performances I think we could have improved on, and results that should have been better - I genuinely believe his positives far outweigh the negatives. There are not many managers that would be happy to operate under the newly introduced restraints at QPR, 'Arry got a whiff of it and fcked off as far as his crutches could carry him. Imagine suddenly working to a Burnley budget when you'e previously been a lite Man City - trying to balance the old and well paid vs the new and hungry, no longer able to use finances as an incentive to come and play in an 18k ground with a reputation for farce, it must be a nightmare. Some people say that makes Ramsey a stooge - but anybody that is willing to accept working in limited conditions can be perceived that way. To me he's a man that knows this is the biggest and best opportunity of his career and he's motivated by that to make the most of it - no different to the same policy we are all fans of when it comes to player recruitment. He carries himself well, he introduces a code of ethics and behaviours that in some ways at QPR were as needed as 3pts on a Saturday, and he is happy to put things in place and make QPR a better club than when he found it without doing it purely to enhance his own status. That's so important at QPR after years and years of people taking from us without ever giving back.
Now none of this would matter if he was not showing any signs at all of doing what he's supposed to be good at, but I think he is. 1 year ago most people probably couldn't name 5 EDL players - now we can name 5 that started in the last game alone. Players have joined from other clubs and hit the ground running, Luongo is being utlised to great effect in 2 positions, Phillips has become a £10m player, He's brought Faurlin back in the right way, the team as a unit moves forward and attacks teams in a way nobody has yet been able to cope with. There are downsides to that, but again I would rather be excited watching a 4-3 scoreline either way than being bored to tears with 1-0 nicked wins against teams on 5% of our budget. It's not as if all of it isn;t working, just that there isn't a good enough balance yet.
Ultimately I am still not sure if it's going to 'work out' in the very long term with this Les and Chris experiment, but this club has been fcked over royally in the last 5 years especially. It's become a horrible club to support sometimes, removing staff with QPR links, selling commited players, making cnts millionaires, etc. If we're going to get away from that we need to swerve violently in the other direction and start to build proper foundations. You can't do that and maintain results and great performances - so I am happy to forego those in the short term to restore some identity and bring QPR closer to the club I loved, for me, for my son, for my friends of which I am usually the only QPR fan they know so pay a vague interest. Of course that doesn't mean I don't get angry watching a game when we are playing badly, or won't need alcohol and time alone to get over a defeat and stop it ruining my weekend. But I am willing to forgive a lot more than usual because I can see us moving closer to a club I like and further away from the cnt pit it was before. I have put my trust in Chris, Ramsey, Lee Hoos and the others, just hoping that this time they will finally start to get it right. They might not have more than our best interests at the moment, but that's enough to be getting on with.
I've ended up rambling here. |
Ramble away Simmo
i do agree with a few things you have said there , I actually applaud ramsey for at least playing the kids , i like most of the signings bar perch & konshesky and yes Fer & Phillips have improved a lot since he took charge , i would rather him than Bagpuss all day long,
like you i dont agree with the way he sets up the side, and his use of subs is very poor IMHO,
others wont judge him on last year , but i think we should to a degree, the west ham debacle, that city game, the palace away game , playing furlong against sanchez
that was all to do with Ramsey and he has to be held accountable,
i honestly think a cup run would have benefitted him with the fanbase, imagine going to liverpool and giving them a real game and a possible upset , the whole club would be on a high , now we are in the dumps and the questions are being asked again
i cant get my head around that back four the other night, again the confidence to be had in keeping a clean sheet would have been a platform to build on,
and in my opinion he was trying to be to clever with that team the other night ,
as ive said mate im happy to be proved wrong and i hope i am as i want Les to make a success of being the DOF here
i just feel the club should have at least put the feelers out to the likes of Warburton, Clough, Adkins, Lee Johnson, Haseelbank, Rowett, Robinson, Cotterill,
instead of just appointing Ramsey because if this goes pear shaped then questions will need to be asked of Les and his role
anyway heres hoping for a point or 3 on saturday |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:45 - Aug 27 with 1808 views | ElHoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:21 - Aug 27 by simmo |
To be fair, Paul, I enjoy your side of the disagreement because you back up your critisicms, you offer alternatives and point to other exampls, etc. The worst people are those that send tweets to Fernandes and Ian Taylor saying how we're shit and pointing at everything with a QPR badge in it as the reason, and you're not that. I also don't think you shouldn't voice concerns, as you say it's the nature of a forum and we're all mass debaters I'm sure... It's just asking for people to look at the bigger picture and reset expectations slightly, also the 'plaudits' when he leads us to victory away from home when 2 goals behind compared to a minor loss in a league cup game, is disproportionate, that's what people take umbrage with. By the same token, my point is not to always defend Ramsey because he is going to be our Alex Ferguson, because I don't think he will. There are plenty of things that he does that really pi$$ me off - he makes subs too late, he sometimes contradicts what he says with picking his first 11 (Henry not 1 min of pre-season but starts every game??), bringing SWP on against City so he can get his reception (that properly makes me angry, even just writing it again), the home game against West Ham last season, etc. I think he benefitted a lot not because he was an excellent alternative to Redknapp, but simply because he wasn't Redknapp and anybody but that self serving crook was a preferable option.
But - as much as there are things I don't like, and performances I think we could have improved on, and results that should have been better - I genuinely believe his positives far outweigh the negatives. There are not many managers that would be happy to operate under the newly introduced restraints at QPR, 'Arry got a whiff of it and fcked off as far as his crutches could carry him. Imagine suddenly working to a Burnley budget when you'e previously been a lite Man City - trying to balance the old and well paid vs the new and hungry, no longer able to use finances as an incentive to come and play in an 18k ground with a reputation for farce, it must be a nightmare. Some people say that makes Ramsey a stooge - but anybody that is willing to accept working in limited conditions can be perceived that way. To me he's a man that knows this is the biggest and best opportunity of his career and he's motivated by that to make the most of it - no different to the same policy we are all fans of when it comes to player recruitment. He carries himself well, he introduces a code of ethics and behaviours that in some ways at QPR were as needed as 3pts on a Saturday, and he is happy to put things in place and make QPR a better club than when he found it without doing it purely to enhance his own status. That's so important at QPR after years and years of people taking from us without ever giving back.
Now none of this would matter if he was not showing any signs at all of doing what he's supposed to be good at, but I think he is. 1 year ago most people probably couldn't name 5 EDL players - now we can name 5 that started in the last game alone. Players have joined from other clubs and hit the ground running, Luongo is being utlised to great effect in 2 positions, Phillips has become a £10m player, He's brought Faurlin back in the right way, the team as a unit moves forward and attacks teams in a way nobody has yet been able to cope with. There are downsides to that, but again I would rather be excited watching a 4-3 scoreline either way than being bored to tears with 1-0 nicked wins against teams on 5% of our budget. It's not as if all of it isn;t working, just that there isn't a good enough balance yet.
Ultimately I am still not sure if it's going to 'work out' in the very long term with this Les and Chris experiment, but this club has been fcked over royally in the last 5 years especially. It's become a horrible club to support sometimes, removing staff with QPR links, selling commited players, making cnts millionaires, etc. If we're going to get away from that we need to swerve violently in the other direction and start to build proper foundations. You can't do that and maintain results and great performances - so I am happy to forego those in the short term to restore some identity and bring QPR closer to the club I loved, for me, for my son, for my friends of which I am usually the only QPR fan they know so pay a vague interest. Of course that doesn't mean I don't get angry watching a game when we are playing badly, or won't need alcohol and time alone to get over a defeat and stop it ruining my weekend. But I am willing to forgive a lot more than usual because I can see us moving closer to a club I like and further away from the cnt pit it was before. I have put my trust in Chris, Ramsey, Lee Hoos and the others, just hoping that this time they will finally start to get it right. They might not have more than our best interests at the moment, but that's enough to be getting on with.
I've ended up rambling here. |
You mention the 5 EDL players, in a game that we should in theory be 'trying to win'.
I doubt that there's 5 more former QPR EDL players kicking off for a fully professional league match anywhere on the planet this week. Not players for whom we were responsible for their full development. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There's not many who start for their side at a decent level I'm sure. Now suddenly we've got 5 of them. Well hopefully things have improved, but five? Really? Somehow it doesn't feel like the start of the Ramsey Babes though.
Five of them, in front of five thousand people, surrounded by the walking and mentally wounded. It's just not fair on the youngsters for a start. It should be a big deal playing for the first team. A bigger deal than this anyway.
If you've got 20 odd youth players at any one time then even a club with an average youth set up wouldn't expect to find more than one player of first team professional quality every year. We certainly haven't got five of them right now. Yes give Doughty a game, no problem, maybe one more could have been tried out with a stronger side around him, but five, no that's not right. These games should matter to everyone - the management, the players and the fans. It's what a football club should be like. | | | |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:07 - Aug 27 with 1777 views | PunteR |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:21 - Aug 27 by simmo |
To be fair, Paul, I enjoy your side of the disagreement because you back up your critisicms, you offer alternatives and point to other exampls, etc. The worst people are those that send tweets to Fernandes and Ian Taylor saying how we're shit and pointing at everything with a QPR badge in it as the reason, and you're not that. I also don't think you shouldn't voice concerns, as you say it's the nature of a forum and we're all mass debaters I'm sure... It's just asking for people to look at the bigger picture and reset expectations slightly, also the 'plaudits' when he leads us to victory away from home when 2 goals behind compared to a minor loss in a league cup game, is disproportionate, that's what people take umbrage with. By the same token, my point is not to always defend Ramsey because he is going to be our Alex Ferguson, because I don't think he will. There are plenty of things that he does that really pi$$ me off - he makes subs too late, he sometimes contradicts what he says with picking his first 11 (Henry not 1 min of pre-season but starts every game??), bringing SWP on against City so he can get his reception (that properly makes me angry, even just writing it again), the home game against West Ham last season, etc. I think he benefitted a lot not because he was an excellent alternative to Redknapp, but simply because he wasn't Redknapp and anybody but that self serving crook was a preferable option.
But - as much as there are things I don't like, and performances I think we could have improved on, and results that should have been better - I genuinely believe his positives far outweigh the negatives. There are not many managers that would be happy to operate under the newly introduced restraints at QPR, 'Arry got a whiff of it and fcked off as far as his crutches could carry him. Imagine suddenly working to a Burnley budget when you'e previously been a lite Man City - trying to balance the old and well paid vs the new and hungry, no longer able to use finances as an incentive to come and play in an 18k ground with a reputation for farce, it must be a nightmare. Some people say that makes Ramsey a stooge - but anybody that is willing to accept working in limited conditions can be perceived that way. To me he's a man that knows this is the biggest and best opportunity of his career and he's motivated by that to make the most of it - no different to the same policy we are all fans of when it comes to player recruitment. He carries himself well, he introduces a code of ethics and behaviours that in some ways at QPR were as needed as 3pts on a Saturday, and he is happy to put things in place and make QPR a better club than when he found it without doing it purely to enhance his own status. That's so important at QPR after years and years of people taking from us without ever giving back.
Now none of this would matter if he was not showing any signs at all of doing what he's supposed to be good at, but I think he is. 1 year ago most people probably couldn't name 5 EDL players - now we can name 5 that started in the last game alone. Players have joined from other clubs and hit the ground running, Luongo is being utlised to great effect in 2 positions, Phillips has become a £10m player, He's brought Faurlin back in the right way, the team as a unit moves forward and attacks teams in a way nobody has yet been able to cope with. There are downsides to that, but again I would rather be excited watching a 4-3 scoreline either way than being bored to tears with 1-0 nicked wins against teams on 5% of our budget. It's not as if all of it isn;t working, just that there isn't a good enough balance yet.
Ultimately I am still not sure if it's going to 'work out' in the very long term with this Les and Chris experiment, but this club has been fcked over royally in the last 5 years especially. It's become a horrible club to support sometimes, removing staff with QPR links, selling commited players, making cnts millionaires, etc. If we're going to get away from that we need to swerve violently in the other direction and start to build proper foundations. You can't do that and maintain results and great performances - so I am happy to forego those in the short term to restore some identity and bring QPR closer to the club I loved, for me, for my son, for my friends of which I am usually the only QPR fan they know so pay a vague interest. Of course that doesn't mean I don't get angry watching a game when we are playing badly, or won't need alcohol and time alone to get over a defeat and stop it ruining my weekend. But I am willing to forgive a lot more than usual because I can see us moving closer to a club I like and further away from the cnt pit it was before. I have put my trust in Chris, Ramsey, Lee Hoos and the others, just hoping that this time they will finally start to get it right. They might not have more than our best interests at the moment, but that's enough to be getting on with.
I've ended up rambling here. |
This is a great post^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sums up my feelings pretty well
I havnt got a problem with people posting they don't like Ramsey or whatever,that's fair enough,its what this message board is for. Nothing wrong with letting off a bit of steam when we lose. I arrowed up LBlocks op for what its worth that night but that doesn't mean I agreed to what he said,i just thought at least he was at the game,got pissed and decided to vent off on here. It gives everyone an opportunity to have their say, including Simmo's excellent post.
PaulParker is a top poster and knows more about QPR and football than me so I always read his posts. I don't always agree with him though. ;) |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:08 - Aug 27 with 1777 views | simmo |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:45 - Aug 27 by ElHoop |
You mention the 5 EDL players, in a game that we should in theory be 'trying to win'.
I doubt that there's 5 more former QPR EDL players kicking off for a fully professional league match anywhere on the planet this week. Not players for whom we were responsible for their full development. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There's not many who start for their side at a decent level I'm sure. Now suddenly we've got 5 of them. Well hopefully things have improved, but five? Really? Somehow it doesn't feel like the start of the Ramsey Babes though.
Five of them, in front of five thousand people, surrounded by the walking and mentally wounded. It's just not fair on the youngsters for a start. It should be a big deal playing for the first team. A bigger deal than this anyway.
If you've got 20 odd youth players at any one time then even a club with an average youth set up wouldn't expect to find more than one player of first team professional quality every year. We certainly haven't got five of them right now. Yes give Doughty a game, no problem, maybe one more could have been tried out with a stronger side around him, but five, no that's not right. These games should matter to everyone - the management, the players and the fans. It's what a football club should be like. |
Wasn't Balanta actually playing against us as a former EDL player?
The point is not that we have 5 players from the youth ranks that are good enough to make a career, more that the alternative is 5, 30+ cnts on 1000 times the wages that will lose anyway, as was the case for the last few years. I would rather lose getting game time and experience into our kids than lose playing SWP and the rest of his kind that have blighted the club.
Of course I would rather win, but we didn't and in certain areas of the pitch, there wasn't many alternatives beyond slogging to death players that already played 3 full games in the previous week and will be needed again on Saturday. In hindsight 10 changes were too many, but that team could and should have won and on another day we do. Wasnt to be, let's move on. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:24 - Aug 27 with 1755 views | ElHoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:08 - Aug 27 by simmo |
Wasn't Balanta actually playing against us as a former EDL player?
The point is not that we have 5 players from the youth ranks that are good enough to make a career, more that the alternative is 5, 30+ cnts on 1000 times the wages that will lose anyway, as was the case for the last few years. I would rather lose getting game time and experience into our kids than lose playing SWP and the rest of his kind that have blighted the club.
Of course I would rather win, but we didn't and in certain areas of the pitch, there wasn't many alternatives beyond slogging to death players that already played 3 full games in the previous week and will be needed again on Saturday. In hindsight 10 changes were too many, but that team could and should have won and on another day we do. Wasnt to be, let's move on. |
Yes I think that this is talked to death now.
They need to have a rethink though, even if they don't actually do anything, and then make some sort of statement, because from the outside looking in it doesn't make much sense. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:29 - Aug 27 with 1740 views | Pommyhoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:45 - Aug 27 by paulparker |
Ramble away Simmo
i do agree with a few things you have said there , I actually applaud ramsey for at least playing the kids , i like most of the signings bar perch & konshesky and yes Fer & Phillips have improved a lot since he took charge , i would rather him than Bagpuss all day long,
like you i dont agree with the way he sets up the side, and his use of subs is very poor IMHO,
others wont judge him on last year , but i think we should to a degree, the west ham debacle, that city game, the palace away game , playing furlong against sanchez
that was all to do with Ramsey and he has to be held accountable,
i honestly think a cup run would have benefitted him with the fanbase, imagine going to liverpool and giving them a real game and a possible upset , the whole club would be on a high , now we are in the dumps and the questions are being asked again
i cant get my head around that back four the other night, again the confidence to be had in keeping a clean sheet would have been a platform to build on,
and in my opinion he was trying to be to clever with that team the other night ,
as ive said mate im happy to be proved wrong and i hope i am as i want Les to make a success of being the DOF here
i just feel the club should have at least put the feelers out to the likes of Warburton, Clough, Adkins, Lee Johnson, Haseelbank, Rowett, Robinson, Cotterill,
instead of just appointing Ramsey because if this goes pear shaped then questions will need to be asked of Les and his role
anyway heres hoping for a point or 3 on saturday |
''i just feel the club should have at least put the feelers out to the likes of Warburton, Clough, Adkins, Lee Johnson, Haseelbank, Rowett, Robinson, Cotterill,
instead of just appointing Ramsey because if this goes pear shaped then questions will need to be asked of Les and his role''
''Pear shaped'' being relegation Paul yeah? | |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 14:09 - Aug 27 with 1692 views | paulparker |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:29 - Aug 27 by Pommyhoop |
''i just feel the club should have at least put the feelers out to the likes of Warburton, Clough, Adkins, Lee Johnson, Haseelbank, Rowett, Robinson, Cotterill,
instead of just appointing Ramsey because if this goes pear shaped then questions will need to be asked of Les and his role''
''Pear shaped'' being relegation Paul yeah? |
id say bottom 6 Simmo, if that happens then yes in my eyes things have gone pearshaped
i would have settled for a top ten finish and a good cup run TBH | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
| |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 14:13 - Aug 27 with 1683 views | paulparker |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 13:07 - Aug 27 by PunteR |
This is a great post^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sums up my feelings pretty well
I havnt got a problem with people posting they don't like Ramsey or whatever,that's fair enough,its what this message board is for. Nothing wrong with letting off a bit of steam when we lose. I arrowed up LBlocks op for what its worth that night but that doesn't mean I agreed to what he said,i just thought at least he was at the game,got pissed and decided to vent off on here. It gives everyone an opportunity to have their say, including Simmo's excellent post.
PaulParker is a top poster and knows more about QPR and football than me so I always read his posts. I don't always agree with him though. ;) |
Cheers for the nice words PunterR,
i'l be sure to buy you a pint in the Aderlaide sometime in the season | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
| |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 14:15 - Aug 27 with 1679 views | paulparker |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:45 - Aug 27 by ElHoop |
You mention the 5 EDL players, in a game that we should in theory be 'trying to win'.
I doubt that there's 5 more former QPR EDL players kicking off for a fully professional league match anywhere on the planet this week. Not players for whom we were responsible for their full development. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There's not many who start for their side at a decent level I'm sure. Now suddenly we've got 5 of them. Well hopefully things have improved, but five? Really? Somehow it doesn't feel like the start of the Ramsey Babes though.
Five of them, in front of five thousand people, surrounded by the walking and mentally wounded. It's just not fair on the youngsters for a start. It should be a big deal playing for the first team. A bigger deal than this anyway.
If you've got 20 odd youth players at any one time then even a club with an average youth set up wouldn't expect to find more than one player of first team professional quality every year. We certainly haven't got five of them right now. Yes give Doughty a game, no problem, maybe one more could have been tried out with a stronger side around him, but five, no that's not right. These games should matter to everyone - the management, the players and the fans. It's what a football club should be like. |
Excellent post ELHOOP, | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
| |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 15:49 - Aug 27 with 1586 views | Match82 |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 10:28 - Aug 27 by adhoc_qpr |
The trouble is that one group of fans are willing to forgive Ramsey for his mistakes in the short term and don't accept any (often valid) criticism of him because it's a long term project ('Arry's squad last year, tight budget and unsettled pre-season this year). Moaning, spoilt, blah blah.
The other group are convinced they have seen enough and he's not the right man for the job and are just waiting for the inevitable. Hence they seize on all the mistakes he's making as further evidence.
Not much middle ground there! |
I think part of the problem is that it's an unbalanced equation.
I see one "Ramsey out" group and one "give him time" group. The former see all of his flaws and point them out, understandably. The latter try to take a balanced view, but because they are immediately shouted down by Ramsey criticisms, have to take a more "pro ramsey" stance simply to try and stop things descending into a hate fest.
I don't see anybody on here proclaiming ramsey to be the best manager we've ever had, simply sometime who deserves a chance to be judged over a longer period of time. There are those that think we can do better (which is fair enough) and then a few that are simply bitter that we didn't pick their choice for manager, or just like a moan.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm far more likely to give credit and respect to posters who demonstrate they can see the good and bad in a situation and weigh the two, rather than those who spew nothing but praise or nothing but criticism. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 15:53 - Aug 27 with 1582 views | LadbrokeR |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 10:59 - Aug 27 by ElHoop |
This Ramsey bashing is something of a myth though. Most of what I've read is perfectly fair criticism of the selection/tactics/strategy/cup record arising from the Carlisle result. I don't think that too many people are blaming Ramsey for all of this, although he isn't blameless in his own right.
Anyhow if you don't get it you don't get it and that's all there is to it. |
This Ramsey bashing is something of a myth. I ma not sure that it is. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:15 - Aug 27 with 1553 views | FDC |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:21 - Aug 27 by simmo |
To be fair, Paul, I enjoy your side of the disagreement because you back up your critisicms, you offer alternatives and point to other exampls, etc. The worst people are those that send tweets to Fernandes and Ian Taylor saying how we're shit and pointing at everything with a QPR badge in it as the reason, and you're not that. I also don't think you shouldn't voice concerns, as you say it's the nature of a forum and we're all mass debaters I'm sure... It's just asking for people to look at the bigger picture and reset expectations slightly, also the 'plaudits' when he leads us to victory away from home when 2 goals behind compared to a minor loss in a league cup game, is disproportionate, that's what people take umbrage with. By the same token, my point is not to always defend Ramsey because he is going to be our Alex Ferguson, because I don't think he will. There are plenty of things that he does that really pi$$ me off - he makes subs too late, he sometimes contradicts what he says with picking his first 11 (Henry not 1 min of pre-season but starts every game??), bringing SWP on against City so he can get his reception (that properly makes me angry, even just writing it again), the home game against West Ham last season, etc. I think he benefitted a lot not because he was an excellent alternative to Redknapp, but simply because he wasn't Redknapp and anybody but that self serving crook was a preferable option.
But - as much as there are things I don't like, and performances I think we could have improved on, and results that should have been better - I genuinely believe his positives far outweigh the negatives. There are not many managers that would be happy to operate under the newly introduced restraints at QPR, 'Arry got a whiff of it and fcked off as far as his crutches could carry him. Imagine suddenly working to a Burnley budget when you'e previously been a lite Man City - trying to balance the old and well paid vs the new and hungry, no longer able to use finances as an incentive to come and play in an 18k ground with a reputation for farce, it must be a nightmare. Some people say that makes Ramsey a stooge - but anybody that is willing to accept working in limited conditions can be perceived that way. To me he's a man that knows this is the biggest and best opportunity of his career and he's motivated by that to make the most of it - no different to the same policy we are all fans of when it comes to player recruitment. He carries himself well, he introduces a code of ethics and behaviours that in some ways at QPR were as needed as 3pts on a Saturday, and he is happy to put things in place and make QPR a better club than when he found it without doing it purely to enhance his own status. That's so important at QPR after years and years of people taking from us without ever giving back.
Now none of this would matter if he was not showing any signs at all of doing what he's supposed to be good at, but I think he is. 1 year ago most people probably couldn't name 5 EDL players - now we can name 5 that started in the last game alone. Players have joined from other clubs and hit the ground running, Luongo is being utlised to great effect in 2 positions, Phillips has become a £10m player, He's brought Faurlin back in the right way, the team as a unit moves forward and attacks teams in a way nobody has yet been able to cope with. There are downsides to that, but again I would rather be excited watching a 4-3 scoreline either way than being bored to tears with 1-0 nicked wins against teams on 5% of our budget. It's not as if all of it isn;t working, just that there isn't a good enough balance yet.
Ultimately I am still not sure if it's going to 'work out' in the very long term with this Les and Chris experiment, but this club has been fcked over royally in the last 5 years especially. It's become a horrible club to support sometimes, removing staff with QPR links, selling commited players, making cnts millionaires, etc. If we're going to get away from that we need to swerve violently in the other direction and start to build proper foundations. You can't do that and maintain results and great performances - so I am happy to forego those in the short term to restore some identity and bring QPR closer to the club I loved, for me, for my son, for my friends of which I am usually the only QPR fan they know so pay a vague interest. Of course that doesn't mean I don't get angry watching a game when we are playing badly, or won't need alcohol and time alone to get over a defeat and stop it ruining my weekend. But I am willing to forgive a lot more than usual because I can see us moving closer to a club I like and further away from the cnt pit it was before. I have put my trust in Chris, Ramsey, Lee Hoos and the others, just hoping that this time they will finally start to get it right. They might not have more than our best interests at the moment, but that's enough to be getting on with.
I've ended up rambling here. |
Great post Mr Simmo |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:22 - Aug 27 with 1542 views | Hooped_Pullie |
I admire Simmo's epic post, though I don't agree with all of it.
A change in policy from the failed ways of the past was always on the cards, but rather than rush from overpaid experience to (possibly) underpaid youth, a better option was staring TF in the face.
All he had to do was dust off the Warnock blueprint of 2010/11, appoint an experienced, proven manager (of whom there are fewer available now then there were back in the spring) rebuild the squad with 26-29 year old seasoned Champ players who wouldn't cost the earth (Neil's team was hardly megabucks, was it?) instill a bit of ambition along, say, Burnley lines, and run the youth project as an adjunct to the first team rather than as part of it. Hopefully one or two to step up, but mostly we need the proven right now. Maybe look for a wild card or two in the Prem loan market, even if another Adel would be hard to find there.
Instead of that, we are gambing the Club's very future on inexperience right across the board, although Ramsey's team selection in league games indicates thus far that the penny has dropped, and we won't get far with kids in this division.
As I've said before - and surely no-one can disagree - he CANNOT coach teams to defend, he's just no good at it and that is plain as day.
I feel deadline day may be a reckoning of sorts : we will see. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:42 - Aug 27 with 1496 views | vegasranger |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 12:45 - Aug 27 by ElHoop |
You mention the 5 EDL players, in a game that we should in theory be 'trying to win'.
I doubt that there's 5 more former QPR EDL players kicking off for a fully professional league match anywhere on the planet this week. Not players for whom we were responsible for their full development. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There's not many who start for their side at a decent level I'm sure. Now suddenly we've got 5 of them. Well hopefully things have improved, but five? Really? Somehow it doesn't feel like the start of the Ramsey Babes though.
Five of them, in front of five thousand people, surrounded by the walking and mentally wounded. It's just not fair on the youngsters for a start. It should be a big deal playing for the first team. A bigger deal than this anyway.
If you've got 20 odd youth players at any one time then even a club with an average youth set up wouldn't expect to find more than one player of first team professional quality every year. We certainly haven't got five of them right now. Yes give Doughty a game, no problem, maybe one more could have been tried out with a stronger side around him, but five, no that's not right. These games should matter to everyone - the management, the players and the fans. It's what a football club should be like. |
Spot on Elhoop. Any manager can put five EDL players in at the same time. There is still this myth that the QPR youngsters have been held back by playing old, overpaid pros. When the realty is we are now owned by Brentford at youth level. Gregor - Cox failed at Brentford. Paul Hall is in charge of the EDL I can't find where he gained the experience to be doing this job. I will mention it again. Our current coaching staff.
Chris Ramsay. Youth coach.
Steve Gallen. Youth coach.
Simon Ireland. Youth coach.
Paul Crichton. Lower lever goalkeeping coach.
Where is the experience? And more importantly when is Warren Farm going to be anything but talk?!! [Post edited 27 Aug 2015 16:44]
| | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 17:02 - Aug 27 with 1460 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 15:53 - Aug 27 by LadbrokeR |
This Ramsey bashing is something of a myth. I ma not sure that it is. |
And i quote, from the post that started all this:
'could not make Benny the Super Yoof Coach's system work but like I say I don't blame them, the man in the straight jacket set them up and they're not suited to it.'
Now the thrust of the argument is perfectly valid. It's the way LBlock and others couch it that annoys me. There's just no need for it. I despise Redknapp, despise him - I think he's a lying, backstabbing crook, but in the same vein, the 'candleface' type comments I found totally uncalled for.
It's possible, as Clive frequently does in his match reports, to discuss and criticise without being a pr!ck about it. | |
| |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 17:04 - Aug 27 with 1456 views | ElHoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:42 - Aug 27 by vegasranger |
Spot on Elhoop. Any manager can put five EDL players in at the same time. There is still this myth that the QPR youngsters have been held back by playing old, overpaid pros. When the realty is we are now owned by Brentford at youth level. Gregor - Cox failed at Brentford. Paul Hall is in charge of the EDL I can't find where he gained the experience to be doing this job. I will mention it again. Our current coaching staff.
Chris Ramsay. Youth coach.
Steve Gallen. Youth coach.
Simon Ireland. Youth coach.
Paul Crichton. Lower lever goalkeeping coach.
Where is the experience? And more importantly when is Warren Farm going to be anything but talk?!! [Post edited 27 Aug 2015 16:44]
|
I think that you are probably right about Brentford. I only just realised that Brentford have Wealdstone Youth under their wing, Wealdstone being something of a community club and pretty much in our manor. I think that Brentford must therefore have a pretty wide net over the talent in our catchment area. Look I know that we are trying to get the training ground up and running and that is vital. I'm not massively negative about our longer term prospects as there are signs of progress, but at the same time there's no use in pretending that we are not still making mistakes and in trying to discourage those who point them out. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 17:08 - Aug 27 with 1447 views | ElHoop |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 17:02 - Aug 27 by Antti_Heinola |
And i quote, from the post that started all this:
'could not make Benny the Super Yoof Coach's system work but like I say I don't blame them, the man in the straight jacket set them up and they're not suited to it.'
Now the thrust of the argument is perfectly valid. It's the way LBlock and others couch it that annoys me. There's just no need for it. I despise Redknapp, despise him - I think he's a lying, backstabbing crook, but in the same vein, the 'candleface' type comments I found totally uncalled for.
It's possible, as Clive frequently does in his match reports, to discuss and criticise without being a pr!ck about it. |
Yes I agree that there's some stuff like that but in reality what percentage is there of undiluted Ramsey bashing? It's a myth to suggest that it's rampant after the Carlisle game. There is by comparison lots more reasoned comment I would venture to suggest. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 17:24 - Aug 27 with 1425 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 16:22 - Aug 27 by Hooped_Pullie |
I admire Simmo's epic post, though I don't agree with all of it.
A change in policy from the failed ways of the past was always on the cards, but rather than rush from overpaid experience to (possibly) underpaid youth, a better option was staring TF in the face.
All he had to do was dust off the Warnock blueprint of 2010/11, appoint an experienced, proven manager (of whom there are fewer available now then there were back in the spring) rebuild the squad with 26-29 year old seasoned Champ players who wouldn't cost the earth (Neil's team was hardly megabucks, was it?) instill a bit of ambition along, say, Burnley lines, and run the youth project as an adjunct to the first team rather than as part of it. Hopefully one or two to step up, but mostly we need the proven right now. Maybe look for a wild card or two in the Prem loan market, even if another Adel would be hard to find there.
Instead of that, we are gambing the Club's very future on inexperience right across the board, although Ramsey's team selection in league games indicates thus far that the penny has dropped, and we won't get far with kids in this division.
As I've said before - and surely no-one can disagree - he CANNOT coach teams to defend, he's just no good at it and that is plain as day.
I feel deadline day may be a reckoning of sorts : we will see. |
The defensive thing - you simply cannot be so definitive on it. I put it elsewhere, but I'll say it again - 2 years ago Bournemouth finished 10th. They conceded 66 goals. Only 4 more than relegated Concaster, and more than all but one team in the top 18. The same criticisms were levelled at 'inexperienced, naive' Eddie Howe - they score loads of goals but he can't coach the defence.
Last season they won the league, more than 20 fewer goals conceded, and had the best defensive away record in the division.
Now I'm not saying Ramsey is Howe - I think Howe is excellent. But you can see my point, surely? But stuff like this:
"All he had to do was dust off the Warnock blueprint of 2010/11, appoint an experienced, proven manager (of whom there are fewer available now then there were back in the spring) rebuild the squad with 26-29 year old seasoned Champ players who wouldn't cost the earth"
is woefully simplistic (the players Warnock bought didn't cost the earth, but mainly because he inherited a team that already had Buzsaky, Faurlin, Gorkss, Connolly, Helguson, Taarabt etc - the basis of a team that only a few months before he took over decimated several sides before Magilton went nuts) and he did spend a fair bit - at least a few mill. And you make it sound so easy! Just a reminder that Bournemouth went up with a coach in his 30s, Boro almost went up with a young coach only just into the English game, Norwich went up with a very young Scottish coach with no experience in the English leagues and Watford went up with a Serb manager who in the last 3 years has managed in Thailand, Bulgaria and a team at the bottom of the spanish 2nd division. So, you know, it takes all kinds!
and this:
As I've said before - and surely no-one can disagree - he CANNOT coach teams to defend, he's just no good at it and that is plain as day.
Of course we can disagree. It's a new defence who've only played a handful of games together. Now you may be right - maybe he can't coach a defence (although as others have pointed out, many of the goals conceded have been down to poor individual errors (Hill losing his man, Hall jumping into a tackle etc) are not to do with coaching/organising), but maybe he can. 4 league games into a new season with a new defence is not the time to make such sweeping comments IMO. | |
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| Chris Ramsey - Clueless? Stubborn? Or both? on 17:50 - Aug 27 with 1380 views | themodfather |
he has no first team credentials, he may have coached spurs 9th eleven and they may have been great
this is qprfc and it's our 1st team and with so much ££££££££££££££££££££ at stake, fernandes choked at the bit and dallied over harry then appointed a no one, we seem to play ball to feet and can look ok going forwards
DEFENDING IS A SHAMBLES and we are a liability, 2 a game against is dire.
ONE UP FRONT is not looking the formation for me, at home especially, leaves austin isolated and looking awful...no one is feeding him, his goals include , one handball, one pen!!!
in the cup many thought ramsey delayed subs too long, carlisle changed things and their sub scored the winner!
ramsey may be a good coach but this league needs more....another cup defeat to lower league oppo (again and again) hurts and cannot be ignored. | | | |
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