| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 20:56 - Nov 8 with 4160 views | Watford_Ranger |
Their source is first class  |  | |  |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 21:25 - Nov 8 with 3974 views | simmohoopster |
We can only hope | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 21:29 - Nov 8 with 3950 views | Clive_Anderson |
I think he's stuck with QPR.
Bit like us really. | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 21:39 - Nov 8 with 3892 views | Northernr |
He almost certainly is, latest strategy being to try and force through a promotion and then offload it immediately, but Indy Kaila makes the plum with the drum look like Reuters. |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 21:40 - Nov 8 with 3892 views | vblockranger |
Been rumours for a while. He will be gone soon and i'll crack open the champagne i got on ice. |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 22:37 - Nov 8 with 3633 views | TheBlob |
Lots of shit going to hit the fan in Malaysia. |  |
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| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 22:52 - Nov 8 with 3557 views | thame_hoops |
Who is this Scott Jones guy on Twitter? Was he the Scott who lived out of a dumpster? He keeps trying to be argumentative but everyone is ignoring him. Hilarious |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 23:10 - Nov 8 with 3474 views | NW10Hoop |
Is it clear whether the debt is being cancelled? Is he setting things up to sell the club as a debt free? [Post edited 8 Nov 2015 23:12]
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| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 23:14 - Nov 8 with 3447 views | Marc |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 23:10 - Nov 8 by NW10Hoop |
Is it clear whether the debt is being cancelled? Is he setting things up to sell the club as a debt free? [Post edited 8 Nov 2015 23:12]
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| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 23:39 - Nov 8 with 3331 views | vblockranger |
Written off the £180 million debt (ouch) in preparation of selling. Still losing money every week so who would buy us? | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 23:46 - Nov 8 with 3305 views | LythamR |
THeres probably more people will ing to buy us losing money every week than there are with us losing money every week and already being £180M plus in the red so this looks like good news to me |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 23:59 - Nov 8 with 3256 views | SomersetHoops |
I suppose I can understand he is disappointed with the way things have gone we all are, but if he can step away from making footballing decisions, I would be quite happy with him as an owner. The problem is he can't and his business empire is not as solid as it once was, so he can no longer play the long game with QPR. I think he needs it in the premiership well before it's ready and will try to sell it before it fails there like the previous owners did. I don't know what will happen with the loan, but the club is not a saleable proposition with that round it's neck. I wonder if he realises most of the problems have been caused by him and if he wonders where the club would be if he had taken a steadier more sensible approach. I think QPR would be where we are now, but without the debt. Is he really ready to give up and admit failure? I still think it's possible to revive the situation if he can give it enough time and he has learnt the lessons of past failure, but I'm not sure he can or he has. Apart from anything else I don't think his ego will allow him to be associated with anything less than a Premiership club and I think this may have been our main problem. Most real football fans support their club wherever it is in the pecking order and although he claims he wants to be a fan, I think he needs to accept that part of a fan's responsibility or accept he can never be one. |  |
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| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 00:08 - Nov 9 with 3223 views | SimonJames |
The man is a bungling fool and I can't help wondering whether his success with Air Asia was more luck than good entrepreneurship. |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 00:30 - Nov 9 with 3160 views | Hooped_Pullie |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 00:08 - Nov 9 by SimonJames |
The man is a bungling fool and I can't help wondering whether his success with Air Asia was more luck than good entrepreneurship. |
Would be surprised if this was true whilst New Queen's Park remains a possibility. Unless he really is fed up & wants to offload to the Mittals ?
I wouldn't defend his errors for an instant, but who would we really like instead ? Cellino ? The asset strippers at Charlton ? The entire Oyston family ? There are not many Pozzos out there, of that you can be sure. | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 00:53 - Nov 9 with 3112 views | eccles |
erm, I'm not sure I follow all this. Look I'm fully prepared to admit that when it comes to high finance I;m as clueless as jose at the moment but
Does this mean that TF has written off our debt?
If the answer is yes, then I have some follow up questions.
1, How does this affect us with regard to FFP? (surely if we are suddenly debt free, we cant be fined much for breaking the rules?)
2. is TF setting us up so that he can sell us? (if so, all that "in it for the long term" was just another platitude to appease us mere gullibles!)
3. if he's not planning on selling us, why would he just give up the thick end of 200m? (we should be told.....sort it out!)
Sorry for asking basic, stupid questions. I just feel that this could be very important for us and I don't fully understand. I remember the buckets on the gates last time and if we have to go through all that again, then we're gonna need some big fck off size buckets this time round!
If there's anyone who could explain it to a stupid person, I'd appreciate it. |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 00:54 - Nov 9 with 3105 views | superhoopdownunder |
If Tony has written off 250m (including what he wrote off last season) then fair play to him - more than Chris Wright ever did - and Tango & Cash left with money in their pockets.
There is no doubt he has made some poor decisions - but he had a go and failed
His main mistake was not having football people around from the word go - instead he appointed Beard.
Anyway I hope Amit takes over and we can get build slowly instead of having a mad rush to get to the over rated premier league.
Maybe behind the scenes Amit said he wanted Warnock back instead of Ramsey?
In my opinion the next person that should be worried for his job is Les Ferdinand | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 10:46 - Nov 9 with 2685 views | BrixtonR |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 00:53 - Nov 9 by eccles |
erm, I'm not sure I follow all this. Look I'm fully prepared to admit that when it comes to high finance I;m as clueless as jose at the moment but
Does this mean that TF has written off our debt?
If the answer is yes, then I have some follow up questions.
1, How does this affect us with regard to FFP? (surely if we are suddenly debt free, we cant be fined much for breaking the rules?)
2. is TF setting us up so that he can sell us? (if so, all that "in it for the long term" was just another platitude to appease us mere gullibles!)
3. if he's not planning on selling us, why would he just give up the thick end of 200m? (we should be told.....sort it out!)
Sorry for asking basic, stupid questions. I just feel that this could be very important for us and I don't fully understand. I remember the buckets on the gates last time and if we have to go through all that again, then we're gonna need some big fck off size buckets this time round!
If there's anyone who could explain it to a stupid person, I'd appreciate it. |
By converting the Debt to Equity the risk is now entirely in the hands of the Shareholder rather than the club. To put it basically its like if I owed you £1000 but was skint and gave you 1000 £1 shares in my new company in lieu. If the company went bust you'd get nothing but if the share price went up to £50 per share and I sold it you'd get £50K.
So yeah they have written off the debt but still have a chance of recouping the money if somewhere down the line they decided to sell and the Market Value of the club overall means that block of shares are worth £180M or more.
Seriously fair play to him for doing that. Basically they are prepared to take the hit for £240M in total and you can't really fault them for that. Like you I'm surprised they haven't made a big deal about this.
I don't know that much about FFP but don't think this will help with the existing fine as it's based on profits and this is just a movement on the balance sheet.
It could mean they are 'fattening' up the company to sell but it could be to do with the FFP rules going forward. who knows. Alternatively it could still mean that they are in it for the long term, I mean it would take a good few years in the premiership to get the overall value of the club to the point where share price was enough to recoup there losses. Perhaps its a sign that they are going to be much more commercially astute in the future but want to start with a clean slate ? |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:09 - Nov 9 with 2602 views | NW10Hoop |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 10:46 - Nov 9 by BrixtonR |
By converting the Debt to Equity the risk is now entirely in the hands of the Shareholder rather than the club. To put it basically its like if I owed you £1000 but was skint and gave you 1000 £1 shares in my new company in lieu. If the company went bust you'd get nothing but if the share price went up to £50 per share and I sold it you'd get £50K.
So yeah they have written off the debt but still have a chance of recouping the money if somewhere down the line they decided to sell and the Market Value of the club overall means that block of shares are worth £180M or more.
Seriously fair play to him for doing that. Basically they are prepared to take the hit for £240M in total and you can't really fault them for that. Like you I'm surprised they haven't made a big deal about this.
I don't know that much about FFP but don't think this will help with the existing fine as it's based on profits and this is just a movement on the balance sheet.
It could mean they are 'fattening' up the company to sell but it could be to do with the FFP rules going forward. who knows. Alternatively it could still mean that they are in it for the long term, I mean it would take a good few years in the premiership to get the overall value of the club to the point where share price was enough to recoup there losses. Perhaps its a sign that they are going to be much more commercially astute in the future but want to start with a clean slate ? |
Either way, the converting of debt into equity seems like a good thing for the club.
Despite things not really working out so far I'd be weary of wishing rid of Tony Fernandes and co. Maybe better the devil you know?
And given that some of the positive changes that have been made at the club have all happened in the last 12 months or so - Les coming in as DOF Lee Hoos as CEO, warren farm a little further down the line, it would be great if things settle down at board level, in the stands and on the pitch - maybe see these seeds of optimism be allowed to flourish | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:13 - Nov 9 with 2585 views | CroydonCaptJack |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 10:46 - Nov 9 by BrixtonR |
By converting the Debt to Equity the risk is now entirely in the hands of the Shareholder rather than the club. To put it basically its like if I owed you £1000 but was skint and gave you 1000 £1 shares in my new company in lieu. If the company went bust you'd get nothing but if the share price went up to £50 per share and I sold it you'd get £50K.
So yeah they have written off the debt but still have a chance of recouping the money if somewhere down the line they decided to sell and the Market Value of the club overall means that block of shares are worth £180M or more.
Seriously fair play to him for doing that. Basically they are prepared to take the hit for £240M in total and you can't really fault them for that. Like you I'm surprised they haven't made a big deal about this.
I don't know that much about FFP but don't think this will help with the existing fine as it's based on profits and this is just a movement on the balance sheet.
It could mean they are 'fattening' up the company to sell but it could be to do with the FFP rules going forward. who knows. Alternatively it could still mean that they are in it for the long term, I mean it would take a good few years in the premiership to get the overall value of the club to the point where share price was enough to recoup there losses. Perhaps its a sign that they are going to be much more commercially astute in the future but want to start with a clean slate ? |
That is a really good explanation and post mate. Spot on. |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:41 - Nov 9 with 2488 views | queensparker |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 10:46 - Nov 9 by BrixtonR |
By converting the Debt to Equity the risk is now entirely in the hands of the Shareholder rather than the club. To put it basically its like if I owed you £1000 but was skint and gave you 1000 £1 shares in my new company in lieu. If the company went bust you'd get nothing but if the share price went up to £50 per share and I sold it you'd get £50K.
So yeah they have written off the debt but still have a chance of recouping the money if somewhere down the line they decided to sell and the Market Value of the club overall means that block of shares are worth £180M or more.
Seriously fair play to him for doing that. Basically they are prepared to take the hit for £240M in total and you can't really fault them for that. Like you I'm surprised they haven't made a big deal about this.
I don't know that much about FFP but don't think this will help with the existing fine as it's based on profits and this is just a movement on the balance sheet.
It could mean they are 'fattening' up the company to sell but it could be to do with the FFP rules going forward. who knows. Alternatively it could still mean that they are in it for the long term, I mean it would take a good few years in the premiership to get the overall value of the club to the point where share price was enough to recoup there losses. Perhaps its a sign that they are going to be much more commercially astute in the future but want to start with a clean slate ? |
Thank you for that, makes it clear. If all is as it seems that this is superb news, the first in a while.
Like others, I can't see why the board aren't making more of it. Possibly it's a bit humiliating for them? |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:51 - Nov 9 with 2442 views | whittocksRs |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 10:46 - Nov 9 by BrixtonR |
By converting the Debt to Equity the risk is now entirely in the hands of the Shareholder rather than the club. To put it basically its like if I owed you £1000 but was skint and gave you 1000 £1 shares in my new company in lieu. If the company went bust you'd get nothing but if the share price went up to £50 per share and I sold it you'd get £50K.
So yeah they have written off the debt but still have a chance of recouping the money if somewhere down the line they decided to sell and the Market Value of the club overall means that block of shares are worth £180M or more.
Seriously fair play to him for doing that. Basically they are prepared to take the hit for £240M in total and you can't really fault them for that. Like you I'm surprised they haven't made a big deal about this.
I don't know that much about FFP but don't think this will help with the existing fine as it's based on profits and this is just a movement on the balance sheet.
It could mean they are 'fattening' up the company to sell but it could be to do with the FFP rules going forward. who knows. Alternatively it could still mean that they are in it for the long term, I mean it would take a good few years in the premiership to get the overall value of the club to the point where share price was enough to recoup there losses. Perhaps its a sign that they are going to be much more commercially astute in the future but want to start with a clean slate ? |
Hmmm... that's one way to look at it, and I hope that is what's happening.
The other is Fernandes and co are trying to consolidate their shares to look more attractive to buyer, pushing up the price (which must have been incredibly low due to the massive debt).
Furthermore, you can't just convert debt into shares without making promises to those you owe money to — it has never been very clear who finances Tune: they say Malaysian banks that work happily on a debt basis but apparently European banks such as Credit Suisse are major creditors. They're not so forgiving.
Point being is Fernandes et al owe a lot of money to someone, hence the problems with AirAsia, and we could be used as collateral in a refinancing package if the banks decided to call in their debts, especially if he's lost interest.
That's a worst case scenario, but it is very much one possibility. Transparency my hairy ar$e. | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:57 - Nov 9 with 2397 views | robith |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:41 - Nov 9 by queensparker |
Thank you for that, makes it clear. If all is as it seems that this is superb news, the first in a while.
Like others, I can't see why the board aren't making more of it. Possibly it's a bit humiliating for them? |
I don't think any company would really want to brag about internalising hundreds of millions in debt.
While it's great news for the club, it's pretty humiliating for them |  | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 12:05 - Nov 9 with 2356 views | londonscottish |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:51 - Nov 9 by whittocksRs |
Hmmm... that's one way to look at it, and I hope that is what's happening.
The other is Fernandes and co are trying to consolidate their shares to look more attractive to buyer, pushing up the price (which must have been incredibly low due to the massive debt).
Furthermore, you can't just convert debt into shares without making promises to those you owe money to — it has never been very clear who finances Tune: they say Malaysian banks that work happily on a debt basis but apparently European banks such as Credit Suisse are major creditors. They're not so forgiving.
Point being is Fernandes et al owe a lot of money to someone, hence the problems with AirAsia, and we could be used as collateral in a refinancing package if the banks decided to call in their debts, especially if he's lost interest.
That's a worst case scenario, but it is very much one possibility. Transparency my hairy ar$e. |
I think it's the other way round - there has been some *ahem* creative accountancy over at Air Asia which has spooked the markets and contributed to a 40% drop in the share price.
TF and his business partner borrowed $200m to buy Caterham and QPR and secured those loans against a chunk of Air Asia shares. Which are now worth less than the loans due to the fall in the value of the shares.
Meanwhile growth in the airline sector has slowed to a crawl, Air Asia has too much debt and investors no longer believe that TF walks on water.
It's all a bit tricky......... |  |
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| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 12:14 - Nov 9 with 2310 views | vblockranger |
Air Asia shares at an all time low.
A breach of terms on the loans taken out against his stake in Air Asia to buy us in 2011.
A well respected equities research firm has come out publicly voicing concerns that Air Asia's business model is not sustainable (not so much of a shock if you look how he has run Caterham and ourselves)
Things not looking good for old Tone and he needs to scramble about. This write off of debt is all a prelude to putting us up for sale imo. | | | |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 12:17 - Nov 9 with 2299 views | londonscottish |
| Uncle bungle looking to get out? on 11:57 - Nov 9 by robith |
I don't think any company would really want to brag about internalising hundreds of millions in debt.
While it's great news for the club, it's pretty humiliating for them |
Embarassing, yes. TF seems to enjoy his "billionaire businessman" image over in Malaysia and spends a lot of time promoting it.
He and Ruben reportedly own just over $1bn of Air Asia stock which equates to £660m. They've effectively written off £240m of that. And the losses will continue, of course.
It's a big hit financially and in terms of reputation.
To put it into context Al Fayed is worth something like $2bn and when he wrote Fulham FC's debts off it didn't really matter financially to him or to Harrods Group. | |
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