| Tax credits cave in 16:58 - Nov 25 with 7352 views | johncharles |
Having been beaten to a pulp by public opinion, the press and the House of Lords, Osborn has dropped the Tax credits cuts. Like it was his idea the greasy toad.
Slippery as a bar of soap in a jar of olive oil. [Post edited 25 Nov 2015 16:59]
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Tax credits cave in on 21:01 - Nov 25 with 1043 views | DWQPR |
| Tax credits cave in on 20:45 - Nov 25 by Rangersw12 |
My parents were the same to a certain extent but they also had affordable housing and wasn't paying about 70% of their wages on rent
Cost of living is astronomical compared to what it was even 15 years ago that's the reason why a lot of working families rely on tax credits
Seem so be a lot of I'm alright Jack in today's society [Post edited 25 Nov 2015 20:46]
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The point is though that if the living wage was introduced by the Blair government instead of a minimum wage then you would not be having to rely on tax credits to make ends meet. Instead they introduced a system whereby millions became totally dependent upon the state making up wages shortfalls and they knew it. I am sure you would agree that you would prefer that 100% of your income came from your employer rather than a proportion being state funded. |  |
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| Tax credits cave in on 21:01 - Nov 25 with 1043 views | jonno |
| Tax credits cave in on 19:55 - Nov 25 by DWQPR |
Tax credits were introduced by Brown and Balls and they openly admitted later that it was a way in which they could make more people reliant on the state and therefore more inclined to vote for the party in power, i.e. Labour. It was all about controlling the populace and getting to know their place as subservient to the government. They covered it with the smokescreen of the minimum wage which as we all know is laughable. The current government is now replacing that minimum wage with a much higher 'living wage' which will be fully in place by 2020 and as the living wage is phased in thus giving the lowest paid inflation busting pay rises tax credits will automatically be reduced and eventually will disappear thus putting the cost of a better wage where it belongs with business. This was typical socialism in practice.
On the point of having children I am sure most of us have gone through that time as young parents whereby we have financially struggled to make ends meet when the kids were young. It happened with us and although I would have dearly loved to have had a son when we were younger we ended up with two girls. We couldn't afford to have another child at the time and we took the view that the girls would benefit more by shutting up shop, so to speak. And so it proved, we were able to provide better for them, we both worked full time and paid for the child care costs, no help, no free hours, no child care vouchers that are tax deductible, no tax credits just child allowance payments. And ironically my boy finally came along in my early 40's, unplanned and at a time when we were financially secure. My point is that people should take more responsibility for their own actions and not rely on continually being bailed out, that way taxes can be used for those who really deserve state help, the elderly, the infirm and those who are disabled through physicality or mental health. |
Exactly right. People should be responsible enough to live within their means, and that includes ensuring they can afford any children they have without expecting a handout from the state to subsidise them. In terms of Tax Credits, these have been utilised by employers to subsidise lower wages so that in effect the state is actually subsidising their business, knowing that those credits will top up the low wages they are paying. The changes being proposed will force employers to pay proper wages and stop the state subsidising their businesses. Of course, you will see many of them squealing about that "costing jobs" and them having to reduce their workforce etc. But that is standard practice and can mostly be taken with the proverbial pinch of salt. The fact is that employers should be paying the correct rate for the job and not be subsidised by the state so they can boost their profits and pay exorbitant salaries to the people at the top of the company. |  | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:05 - Nov 25 with 1038 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Tax credits cave in on 20:45 - Nov 25 by essextaxiboy |
What word would you use to describe something that you can respect and take seriously?
We can use your word to describe them . Makes no odds .
Incidentally The Sun takes more credit than Labour for the reversal of tax credit cuts .
Not sure what I am revelling in except middle aged men who have spent their political lives throwing pelters from the back row (often at their own party) thrust into the position of actually having to do something and making a complete arse of it from minute one . |
Ah, so you are a Sun reader. Fair do's. But then let's not talk about what can be taken seriously and respected.
I think I remember you calling Corbyn a lunatic. Tell me which speeches or talks of his had you been to, seen or heard (not through the filter of your 'we'll tell you what to think' media through deliberate misrepresentation and context removal ) that led you to such a conclusion?
Also please explain to me, as you have designated yourself the arbiter of Economic Credibility, how, with a financial system based on money actually being created as debt, we could have ANY OTHER SITUATION other than one where the collusion of the banking and financial sector along with the politicians they control manoeuvres a situation where 'the people' are placed in an enforced position of unservicable debt that leads to 'policies' that ensure that the infra structure, support, earning potential etc of the least well off is continually lowered/dismantled whilst the richest among us continue to accelerate their accumulation of 'wealth'? |  | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:07 - Nov 25 with 1030 views | essextaxiboy |
| Tax credits cave in on 20:49 - Nov 25 by johncharles |
Still banging on about Labour. How about coming up with something positive about Osborn ?
Not easy is it ? Let's all dismiss Corbyn because he's got a beard. Ha Fcking ha. Let's steer away from the poorest in our society who would have been hit.
Corbyn's got a funny beard Ha Fcking ha. |
I havnt mentioned his beard , or his appearance .
Just his idealistic delusional incompetence as Leader of the Labour Party .
Giving me control of my own pension pot , Osbornes policy saved me from bankruptcy . |  | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:27 - Nov 25 with 996 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:01 - Nov 25 by DWQPR |
The point is though that if the living wage was introduced by the Blair government instead of a minimum wage then you would not be having to rely on tax credits to make ends meet. Instead they introduced a system whereby millions became totally dependent upon the state making up wages shortfalls and they knew it. I am sure you would agree that you would prefer that 100% of your income came from your employer rather than a proportion being state funded. |
Of course DW. Blair offered himself up to the Business and Financial sectors like the good 'credible' politician he was.
The issue now is that we are being pushed further in that direction. It will only ensure the continuation of the lowering of wages exacerbated by the increased competition for even below living wage jobs due to immigration etc and policies such as the reduction in workers' rights, etc etc. That combined with the pincer movement of the removal of the safety net that has previously helped the poorest workers in our society is going to lead to shall we say a more third world type situation at the lower end of the job market. More desperation, more people forced to work long weeks and still not have enough to live, less services provided to help, etc etc. I'm not sure recreating aspects of Victorian Britain is a good look!
It most certainly doesn't reflect the things that I find beautiful about who we are as a community. Looking after each other is a huge part of that. | | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:34 - Nov 25 with 985 views | DWQPR |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:27 - Nov 25 by 1BobbyHazell |
Of course DW. Blair offered himself up to the Business and Financial sectors like the good 'credible' politician he was.
The issue now is that we are being pushed further in that direction. It will only ensure the continuation of the lowering of wages exacerbated by the increased competition for even below living wage jobs due to immigration etc and policies such as the reduction in workers' rights, etc etc. That combined with the pincer movement of the removal of the safety net that has previously helped the poorest workers in our society is going to lead to shall we say a more third world type situation at the lower end of the job market. More desperation, more people forced to work long weeks and still not have enough to live, less services provided to help, etc etc. I'm not sure recreating aspects of Victorian Britain is a good look!
It most certainly doesn't reflect the things that I find beautiful about who we are as a community. Looking after each other is a huge part of that. |
1BH, we could argue all night over this and for me having found some 1845 Fullers in Sainsbury's at 3 for £5 I am happy to. The important thing is to enforce the living wage in a way that the minimum wage hasn't been and this also includes proper regulation of the employment agencies. If this can be done then people and the country as a whole will be better off and taxes can then be really directed to where I think we all agree where they should go, for those who cannot physically or mentally better themselves along with the elderly and the infirm. | |
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| Tax credits cave in on 22:12 - Nov 25 with 949 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:34 - Nov 25 by DWQPR |
1BH, we could argue all night over this and for me having found some 1845 Fullers in Sainsbury's at 3 for £5 I am happy to. The important thing is to enforce the living wage in a way that the minimum wage hasn't been and this also includes proper regulation of the employment agencies. If this can be done then people and the country as a whole will be better off and taxes can then be really directed to where I think we all agree where they should go, for those who cannot physically or mentally better themselves along with the elderly and the infirm. |
I think we are unusually close to agreement, worth drinking an 1845 Fullers to!
I think the one area where we differ is our belief in the true aims of Georgie and co. I think that having workers available as cheaply as possible is their goal. I don't personally buy that they have the good intentions of making people at that end of things 'better off'. I appreciate that you genuinely believe that they have 'our' best interests at heart but all I see at the moment is increasing power for corporations (see TTIP - the end of democracy, I kid you not) and the constant reduction of workers' rights (zero hours contracts etc) and the reduction of those very services for our most vulnerable that we rightly agree should be a priority. Services, I might add, that they could better fund if they made larger corps actually pay the tax they should do! | | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 22:12 - Nov 25 with 948 views | essextaxiboy |
| Tax credits cave in on 21:05 - Nov 25 by 1BobbyHazell |
Ah, so you are a Sun reader. Fair do's. But then let's not talk about what can be taken seriously and respected.
I think I remember you calling Corbyn a lunatic. Tell me which speeches or talks of his had you been to, seen or heard (not through the filter of your 'we'll tell you what to think' media through deliberate misrepresentation and context removal ) that led you to such a conclusion?
Also please explain to me, as you have designated yourself the arbiter of Economic Credibility, how, with a financial system based on money actually being created as debt, we could have ANY OTHER SITUATION other than one where the collusion of the banking and financial sector along with the politicians they control manoeuvres a situation where 'the people' are placed in an enforced position of unservicable debt that leads to 'policies' that ensure that the infra structure, support, earning potential etc of the least well off is continually lowered/dismantled whilst the richest among us continue to accelerate their accumulation of 'wealth'? |
I read the I paper .
I have bought it since issue 1
I cannot recall calling him a lunatic , maybe you could find it ?
I dont remember designating myself anything.So I have nothing to explain .
I dont envy anyone or want any of their money. | | | |
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| Tax credits cave in on 22:13 - Nov 25 with 946 views | Stanisgod |
| Tax credits cave in on 20:31 - Nov 25 by QPR_John |
Not such a mug to confuse "your" and "you're" |
Sure sign of someone losing a debate. Pathetic. |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Tax credits cave in on 22:23 - Nov 25 with 934 views | LythamR |
This thread is another that just shows that to a great extent people see, hear and believe what they want to rather than the basic facts
its a funny old world and we are a funny old bunch within it, still
U'RRRRRRRRRs |  | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 22:40 - Nov 25 with 905 views | DWQPR |
| Tax credits cave in on 22:12 - Nov 25 by 1BobbyHazell |
I think we are unusually close to agreement, worth drinking an 1845 Fullers to!
I think the one area where we differ is our belief in the true aims of Georgie and co. I think that having workers available as cheaply as possible is their goal. I don't personally buy that they have the good intentions of making people at that end of things 'better off'. I appreciate that you genuinely believe that they have 'our' best interests at heart but all I see at the moment is increasing power for corporations (see TTIP - the end of democracy, I kid you not) and the constant reduction of workers' rights (zero hours contracts etc) and the reduction of those very services for our most vulnerable that we rightly agree should be a priority. Services, I might add, that they could better fund if they made larger corps actually pay the tax they should do! |
You see it doesn't make sense to me to keep the low paid as low paid, this is what Labour tried to do and it is unsustainable for the country. Better to incentivise individuals to better themselves and earn more and therefore become less reliant on the state, thus shrinking the state which is what the Tories want. It suits the Labour Party more to keep the lower paid needing more from the state and taking away any ambition that they may have. Personally I would love to see a country full of ambitious people making the most of their abilities and improving themselves and their lifestyles. Utopian I know and probably unachievable. Back to the next 1845 I suppose. | |
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| Tax credits cave in on 22:45 - Nov 25 with 898 views | kensalriser |
How do the 15% of the workforce who are self-employed pay themselves the living wage if they don't earn enough? |  |
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| Tax credits cave in on 22:58 - Nov 25 with 882 views | PunteR |
I've literally got my tax credits claim form sitting in front of me waiting for me to fill out,which i will do once i get my accounts back from my accountant.
I didn't renew it 2 years ago and had to pay back £1200. I still don't really know what they base the amount on as i'm self employed but money that comes in varies.
[Post edited 25 Nov 2015 23:32]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Tax credits cave in on 23:06 - Nov 25 with 871 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Tax credits cave in on 22:12 - Nov 25 by essextaxiboy |
I read the I paper .
I have bought it since issue 1
I cannot recall calling him a lunatic , maybe you could find it ?
I dont remember designating myself anything.So I have nothing to explain .
I dont envy anyone or want any of their money. |
I'm 95% sure you did but f**k knows how to find it on here. If you say you don't think he's one then fair do's.
As for the 'economic assessment'. You have stated, prior to this thread as well, that his economic ideas/policies are not credible. That's a very confident/arrogant statement to make, putting yourself in the role 'expert assessor'. My question was really just asking you to explain how you came to such a conclusion. I'm guessing that word has appeared more than just a few times in your Information and Viewpoint Provider of choice.
Like I said, it's one of those words people use as though they have reviewed a situation thoroughly and come to some sort of almost empirical conclusion after a meticulous working over of the facts and possibilities. When the truth is, it is normally just an empty word they are parroting in order to denigrate and discredit someone without having applied any genuine critical thinking. Your daily read is an expert in such empty, drastically simplistic pronouncements.
Anyway, I'm looking to end on a positive so I'd like to pass on my admiration for your Rangers posts and general outlook on here in the recent difficult months. | | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 23:12 - Nov 25 with 863 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Tax credits cave in on 22:40 - Nov 25 by DWQPR |
You see it doesn't make sense to me to keep the low paid as low paid, this is what Labour tried to do and it is unsustainable for the country. Better to incentivise individuals to better themselves and earn more and therefore become less reliant on the state, thus shrinking the state which is what the Tories want. It suits the Labour Party more to keep the lower paid needing more from the state and taking away any ambition that they may have. Personally I would love to see a country full of ambitious people making the most of their abilities and improving themselves and their lifestyles. Utopian I know and probably unachievable. Back to the next 1845 I suppose. |
Not sure why Labour want low paid workers? I know for sure that the powerful corporate lobbyists who have hold such influence over the Tories (and Blairites) demand low paid workers. The laws and policies being passed now are definitely leading to more of that and more competition for low paid jobs below living wage.
Nets around the iphone factory here we come!!
Aside from all that I admire your desire/belief if the system working that way. I just don't believe that the Elite want that at all.
ps please read about TTIP | | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 23:57 - Nov 25 with 813 views | Brightonhoop |
Both Oz and NZ declined to sell them there biggest farms/land holdings this month tho. So gold doesn't buy everything. Quite an un-noticed event but who declines a sale? Chinaman needs to raise his game despite his wealth, cannot buy what he wants. |  | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 23:58 - Nov 25 with 813 views | TheBlob |
| Tax credits cave in on 23:55 - Nov 25 by PunteR |
None of them have mate. You think China will be a world power?? They're all about 5'3" |
Careful - remember what's just happened to Jimmy Carr. |  |
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| Tax credits cave in on 00:01 - Nov 26 with 807 views | Brightonhoop |
| Tax credits cave in on 23:58 - Nov 25 by TheBlob |
Careful - remember what's just happened to Jimmy Carr. |
Jimmy Carr? He just bought the remaining rights to Bernard Mannings material. | | | |
| Tax credits cave in on 00:04 - Nov 26 with 803 views | TheBlob |
| Tax credits cave in on 23:57 - Nov 25 by Brightonhoop |
Both Oz and NZ declined to sell them there biggest farms/land holdings this month tho. So gold doesn't buy everything. Quite an un-noticed event but who declines a sale? Chinaman needs to raise his game despite his wealth, cannot buy what he wants. |
There's more than one way of skinning a kangaroo. | |
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| Tax credits cave in on 00:05 - Nov 26 with 801 views | PunteR |
| Tax credits cave in on 00:01 - Nov 26 by Brightonhoop |
Jimmy Carr? He just bought the remaining rights to Bernard Mannings material. |
Bernard Mannings material has rights?? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Tax credits cave in on 00:15 - Nov 26 with 789 views | PunteR |
| Tax credits cave in on 00:10 - Nov 26 by isawqpratwcity |
Come on, Blob, 40,000 tonnes is a quarter of all the gold ever mined.
Fair do's on the ports, though. They just bought Darwin, which has got everybody upset, including Obama. |
Gold?.. its all about the Coltan isnt it? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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