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What are Mr Camerons compelling reasons for needing a mandate to bomb Syria?
He said some days ago live on camera that USA, France and Russia were all bombing and that we really should be doing our bit. We all know that our bit is actually not a lot and may come to 2/3% of the total if/when we do join the bombfest. We are not needed.
So Camerons flaky excuse, sorry, compelling reason is that they are doing it, therefore so should we. In the circumstances Corbyn is right to raise questions about justification.
Hopefully Corbyn, the conservatives not very secret weapon, will maintain his position as labour leader and the main reason for voting conservative. What a pity it will be if at his labour meetings on Monday he decides to fall on his sword. A man of his honour, boxing way above his weight, should surely do just that.
I'm very pro Cameron and the conservatives generally but I reckon they are being a bit gung ho in this instance.
Currently residing in Pinner, Centre of the Universe.
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 14:31 - Nov 27 by Discodroids
"oh hello...im looking to locate a complete c unt who must possess the crude bludgeoning political nuances of the Yorkshire Ripper with a half brick, To Lead theonce great Labour Party into the fu cking Void - it is rather old? You do? Oh, oh, oh, that's wonderful...Jemery Corbyn You Say !!."
"my name ?..Oh Yes ,, Mccluskey ......Leonard david Mccluskey.."
[Post edited 27 Nov 2015 14:33]
Funny and relevant as usual but what doeas it add to the debate. What would you do?
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 22:19 - Nov 27 with 3363 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 14:59 - Nov 27 by paulparker
Here's an idea, why don't we deploy our already depleted services on our borders and around our streets and root out the filth that support ISIS already here id rather that than be dictated to by the Russians and the yanks about where we bomb, and who we bomb and being controversial why should we help the French , I seem to recall we needed there assistance a few years back in the middle east and they didn't want to know so let them get on with it
Anyone would think we've been sitting on our backsides since 7/7. If you think it's so easy to monitor and prevent the home grown terrorists how do you explain the teenagers who went off to Syria and their own family didn't know what they were up to.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 08:44 - Nov 28 with 3238 views
part of the problem is the bleeding' heart liberals, like shami chakrabarti, who absolutely refuse to have a police force and any form of security force where people are monitored. people's liberty must be more valuable than the security of a nation. so, despite having more cctv cameras than the makers do, we don't allow stop and search, we don't have mandatory id cards, we don't have the resources or money to track 20,000 people on an ongoing basis, we don't have enough informants because they know the police will eventually give them up and screw them over. basically, we don't have a police state. there is far too much freedom for the individual for there to be a secure state for all. someone has to choose whet we give up on, because the two cannot work together.
It's not what you've got; it's where you stick it.
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 22:07 - Nov 27 by oldmeadoniansR
Funny and relevant as usual but what doeas it add to the debate. What would you do?
The problem is mate , when i do express an opinion on here, (as i do with far less frequencey than i used to because it makes it a wholly unpleasant and time consuming experiance for me and others ), of a political nature, it normally irradiates a few people on here with david banner gamma rays and lifer charlie bronson rage. Which can mannifest itself in PM'S under aliases of abuse or being called a waycist or anti muslim via a 6th form student grant rant that wpuldnt look out of place at an east german Eric Honnecker rally circa 1980.
Moreover, one does so hate to lay ones pc/multicultural credentials as a precursor before each post to various people on here, who if i was in a nuclear bunker with, waiting for the soil to Cleanse of radiation, i wouldnt have a meaningful discussion with or find anything in common with outside of the fact that we happen to support the same association football team in blue and white hoops.
So , Until The top boy of our borstal #4727 Whittingham , declares otherwise, its as you were LFW. Only to say that as a probation officer, and east london native son, we have an extremely serious problem with people with Huge sympathy for Isis and are active. We have primary school teachers acting ass mi 5 agents when they should be teaching the times table. When people dismiss it as a tiny minority, i can tell you, in east london thats wishful thinking. In in no doubt, using the evidence of what i see in front of me 24/7 at work and at play , and friends and family experiances, local newspapers etc over a long period of time , we have a one in four problem in the muslim community.
Time for a strong PM, and not this charles hawtree in a tu tu we have now.I believe some members of the labour party are a 5th column, an enemy within and it sickens me to see it .
[Post edited 28 Nov 2015 11:23]
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 10:39 - Nov 28 with 3183 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 09:21 - Nov 28 by Discodroids
The problem is mate , when i do express an opinion on here, (as i do with far less frequencey than i used to because it makes it a wholly unpleasant and time consuming experiance for me and others ), of a political nature, it normally irradiates a few people on here with david banner gamma rays and lifer charlie bronson rage. Which can mannifest itself in PM'S under aliases of abuse or being called a waycist or anti muslim via a 6th form student grant rant that wpuldnt look out of place at an east german Eric Honnecker rally circa 1980.
Moreover, one does so hate to lay ones pc/multicultural credentials as a precursor before each post to various people on here, who if i was in a nuclear bunker with, waiting for the soil to Cleanse of radiation, i wouldnt have a meaningful discussion with or find anything in common with outside of the fact that we happen to support the same association football team in blue and white hoops.
So , Until The top boy of our borstal #4727 Whittingham , declares otherwise, its as you were LFW. Only to say that as a probation officer, and east london native son, we have an extremely serious problem with people with Huge sympathy for Isis and are active. We have primary school teachers acting ass mi 5 agents when they should be teaching the times table. When people dismiss it as a tiny minority, i can tell you, in east london thats wishful thinking. In in no doubt, using the evidence of what i see in front of me 24/7 at work and at play , and friends and family experiances, local newspapers etc over a long period of time , we have a one in four problem in the muslim community.
Time for a strong PM, and not this charles hawtree in a tu tu we have now.I believe some members of the labour party are a 5th column, an enemy within and it sickens me to see it .
[Post edited 28 Nov 2015 11:23]
I am a primary school teacher and we have this year recieved training from prevent as the goverment tries to catch up with itself and looks to identify early. There is a nine year old boy at my school who i would already say is vulnerable to radicalistion. It is not his fault but as a result of socio economic cross cultural issue in his life that are out of his control. My point is that bombs cannot destroy a way if thinking. In fact they can rapidly energise it. The solution is much longer term and strategic. Education and oppurtunity are key. Unfortunately this and previous governents are widening the gap between rich and poor and i can currently only see more people being radicalised brcause it offers them hope and a sense of belonging.
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 11:54 - Nov 28 with 3133 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 21:53 - Nov 27 by 1BobbyHazell
The dialogue I refer to in terms of where we are now is referencing what governments finally achieved by following the likes of Corbyn's lead by talking to Adams and co as opposed to refusing to do so. It was in answer to DW'S attempt to make Corbyn out to be a supporter of IRA violence because of said dialogue, when the reality is dialogue has brought peace. I hope even you can grasp such a simple concept, my breath is not held.
As for trying to state that an MP never spoke at any point to various governments about an issue he was so interested in is ridiculous, even for you. But then I remind myself that you think talking to people on the UK government's Rogue List is worse than selling them the means for mass genocide. Interesting values.
Dialogue means two people with opposing viewpoints getting round a table and talking. Corbyn is an IRA sympathizer who refused to talk to the British government, the loyalist side and never tried to broken any sort of agreement between the two. How did that promote dialogue? Answer: It didn't.
Nice try though.
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 12:06 - Nov 28 with 3112 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 11:54 - Nov 28 by Clive_Anderson
Dialogue means two people with opposing viewpoints getting round a table and talking. Corbyn is an IRA sympathizer who refused to talk to the British government, the loyalist side and never tried to broken any sort of agreement between the two. How did that promote dialogue? Answer: It didn't.
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 12:06 - Nov 28 by BazzaInTheLoft
As an elected MP he is the British government?
Stay out of it, if our natural allies have got an issue with it they can whistle. We have done more than our fair share at the beck and call of others in that neck of the woods and its led to bombings over here and chaos over there.
No clear exit strategy.
No boots in the ground plan of action - vital as a next stage.
If not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. PG Wodehouse
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 13:38 - Nov 28 by ingeminate
Stay out of it, if our natural allies have got an issue with it they can whistle. We have done more than our fair share at the beck and call of others in that neck of the woods and its led to bombings over here and chaos over there.
No clear exit strategy.
No boots in the ground plan of action - vital as a next stage.
Stay out of Syria, Corbyn is right. We don't want a boots on the ground plan of action for Syria. We are not the World's policemen. Why on earth should our grunts be over there? Let it go to ISIS and or Assad or whoever is locally strongest and stop trying to democratise the world as America's poodle.
Anyone who wants to go to Syria from here should get an assisted passage with a no return clause.
We should spend the money saved on homeland security. Revive the death penalty and anyone proved to be against us remaining in this country try them and sentence them accordingly.
And if whoever is in charge in Syria gets aggressive outside their own borders despatch a few tactical nukes.
STOP THE PUSSYFOOTING COALITION.!
Currently residing in Pinner, Centre of the Universe.
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 12:06 - Nov 28 by BazzaInTheLoft
As an elected MP he is the British government?
No he is not part of the UK government he is a member of the UK Parliament. The government is made up of the ruling party. Even when Labour was in office he acted as he wasn't part of the UK government and his voting record during this time certainly suggests this. In fact if he was truly honest during the many elections he stood as a Labour representative he should have stood as an independent or as a candidate for a much more left wing party which suited his beliefs as again referring to his voting record he seemed to have very little in common with the Labour governments of both Blair and Brown.
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 10:41 - Nov 29 by pomanjou
Stay out of Syria, Corbyn is right. We don't want a boots on the ground plan of action for Syria. We are not the World's policemen. Why on earth should our grunts be over there? Let it go to ISIS and or Assad or whoever is locally strongest and stop trying to democratise the world as America's poodle.
Anyone who wants to go to Syria from here should get an assisted passage with a no return clause.
We should spend the money saved on homeland security. Revive the death penalty and anyone proved to be against us remaining in this country try them and sentence them accordingly.
And if whoever is in charge in Syria gets aggressive outside their own borders despatch a few tactical nukes.
STOP THE PUSSYFOOTING COALITION.!
Other than the terrorist threat towards this country and don't be fooled isn't thinking that if we left ISIS alone then they would leave us alone. They detest the west and would continue to export their beliefs as far and as wide as they could. They are not a democracy they are a hideous medieval subhuman following that wishes to brainwash who they can as kill who they cannot whether that is Christian, Jewish, Bhuddist, Sikh or Muslim. They will kill gays for being gay and rape women and children. Only yesterday another mass grave was discovered of a small religious sect in Iraq, 110 innocent victims slayne because they did not share their view of the world. Another mass grave was discovered a few days before containing the bodies of around 80 women believed to be aged between 40-80, it is believed that they were killed because they were to old to rape. These people do not want to negotiate, they look to split the west and they want to infiltrate our society come what may. They don't care and the only time they will stop is when they achieve a caliphate that we know as planet earth. If UK bombs take out 1 or 1000 of them then that is positive because it doesn't matter they will target us anyway with or without our involvement.
I watched a documentary the other day on female IS recruiters in the UK. Whilst I was disappointed that there wasn't a looker amongst them, one thing stood out for me and it was something one of the ladies said.
How can you deal with someone at the end of your rifle who isn't worried about whether you pull the trigger?
The use of force as persuasion / coercion can only be successful if your opponent would rather find an alternative to dying. It struck me that this lot want the West to attack in the usual way because it fits their narrative (war on Islam, cowardly avoidance of face to face conflict by using bombers, collateral damage that reinforces their initial point etc) which is why they use attacks like Paris, Mumbai, Madrid to provoke the response. If they are killed in the campaign, they can use it to recruit the next cohort.
I have no problem with knocking this lot into the middle of next week but I am concerned that, by doing so, we are doing exactly what they want. However, in the absence of an alternative...
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 11:57 - Nov 29 with 2967 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 11:02 - Nov 29 by DWQPR
No he is not part of the UK government he is a member of the UK Parliament. The government is made up of the ruling party. Even when Labour was in office he acted as he wasn't part of the UK government and his voting record during this time certainly suggests this. In fact if he was truly honest during the many elections he stood as a Labour representative he should have stood as an independent or as a candidate for a much more left wing party which suited his beliefs as again referring to his voting record he seemed to have very little in common with the Labour governments of both Blair and Brown.
 "referring to his voting record he seemed to have very little in common with the Labour governments of both Blair and Brown."
Can somebody tell me where I can buy a nice medal to give him for this? Legend, or are we now pretending that Blair and Brown were wonderful leaders? While they were dismantling what the Labour party was all about he stuck to his principles and he had every right to do so under the Labour banner, it's them that are the imposters.
In this modern political landscape of the two major parties pretending that they offer us great differences whilst quietly pushing through the same agenda , anyone who stands against them is rare and much appreciated by many of us. As Paul Parker rightly pointed out Tories and Blair and Brown's New Labour don't give a f*** about the poorer people in society, that's the reason some of us like Corbyn. He remembers what the Labour Party is about and what it achieved for working class people.
I'm not saying he's perfect, but after Blair, Brown and Millibamd it's good to know the Labour party is not completey dead yet in this country. Having said that all the Blair/Cameron lites remaining in the Labour party will, along with the media, hound him out sooner rather than later. So don't worry we can all go back to the opposition-less one party politics state that we've now become, and unfortunately for many even seem to demand.
[Post edited 29 Nov 2015 12:03]
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 12:06 - Nov 29 with 2955 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 14:57 - Nov 27 by robith
He needs a mandate because he tried to grandstand bombing Assad through parliament to look good, but lost, and so now can't do so without a parliamentary vote.
Of course if he had have bombed Assad Isis would be running Damascus by now
To be honest airstrikes are a charade as long as
a) Assad is in charge and barrel bombing his own people (killed seven times more civilians than Isis) b) Syria has no functioning organs and institutions of state c) Turkey keeps selling their oil for them d) There is no ground force comprised of regional powers e) there is a long term UN approved plan of action of how to achieve all the above
We careened once into the Middle East with no long term plan, and here we are dealing with the consequences 12 years later.
What, just the once? That is very forgetful of you.
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 12:57 - Nov 29 with 2926 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 11:57 - Nov 29 by 1BobbyHazell
 "referring to his voting record he seemed to have very little in common with the Labour governments of both Blair and Brown."
Can somebody tell me where I can buy a nice medal to give him for this? Legend, or are we now pretending that Blair and Brown were wonderful leaders? While they were dismantling what the Labour party was all about he stuck to his principles and he had every right to do so under the Labour banner, it's them that are the imposters.
In this modern political landscape of the two major parties pretending that they offer us great differences whilst quietly pushing through the same agenda , anyone who stands against them is rare and much appreciated by many of us. As Paul Parker rightly pointed out Tories and Blair and Brown's New Labour don't give a f*** about the poorer people in society, that's the reason some of us like Corbyn. He remembers what the Labour Party is about and what it achieved for working class people.
I'm not saying he's perfect, but after Blair, Brown and Millibamd it's good to know the Labour party is not completey dead yet in this country. Having said that all the Blair/Cameron lites remaining in the Labour party will, along with the media, hound him out sooner rather than later. So don't worry we can all go back to the opposition-less one party politics state that we've now become, and unfortunately for many even seem to demand.
[Post edited 29 Nov 2015 12:03]
Well I'm all for a different viewpoint, but that doesn't mean Corbyb's views are any better.
There's a real opportunity for the left here if they get their shit together as there are problems that neither party has even considered let alone looked like solving:
Sort housing out by liberalising the planning laws which currently completely screws the poorest the most. Regulate the banks properly. Simplify the benefits system by introducing a citizens income. Understand the effect of immigration on the wages and service provision of the poorest. Tax wealth over income which again currently screws the poorest. Support reforms in the public sector to get more value for money Acknowledge the democratic deficit in the EU
But they just seem to be becoming an early 80s left wing pressure group. Oppose all cuts whilst believing there is an endless pot of money. All benefits are good and must never be changed even ones like tax credits that prop up big business or housing benefit that ends up in the pockets of landlords. Oppose the mere idea of Britain having an army that looks after the security of the population. Support any group that opposes British/Western interests anywhere in the world (IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah etc.). Unlimited immigration. Ever larger government and control. EU always preferable to British sovereignty.
How is any of that stuff looking after the working class that Labour were set up to represent?
[Post edited 29 Nov 2015 12:59]
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 13:32 - Nov 29 with 2895 views
Cor Blimey may have a point. on 12:57 - Nov 29 by Clive_Anderson
Well I'm all for a different viewpoint, but that doesn't mean Corbyb's views are any better.
There's a real opportunity for the left here if they get their shit together as there are problems that neither party has even considered let alone looked like solving:
Sort housing out by liberalising the planning laws which currently completely screws the poorest the most. Regulate the banks properly. Simplify the benefits system by introducing a citizens income. Understand the effect of immigration on the wages and service provision of the poorest. Tax wealth over income which again currently screws the poorest. Support reforms in the public sector to get more value for money Acknowledge the democratic deficit in the EU
But they just seem to be becoming an early 80s left wing pressure group. Oppose all cuts whilst believing there is an endless pot of money. All benefits are good and must never be changed even ones like tax credits that prop up big business or housing benefit that ends up in the pockets of landlords. Oppose the mere idea of Britain having an army that looks after the security of the population. Support any group that opposes British/Western interests anywhere in the world (IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah etc.). Unlimited immigration. Ever larger government and control. EU always preferable to British sovereignty.
How is any of that stuff looking after the working class that Labour were set up to represent?
[Post edited 29 Nov 2015 12:59]
"cam on you Muggy ISIS Cahnts!!
"
[Post edited 29 Nov 2015 13:33]
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 13:43 - Nov 29 with 2873 views
Corbyn is a CND/Green Party/Russian mole (I haven't figured out which one yet).
There will be a tipping point after which precision bombing and drone strikes on ISIS will send them into terminal decline. The biggest, probably insurmountable, challenge is to find a way of preempting the rise of the next terrorist organisation; but that requires pretty much everybody involved in the Middle East to enter into constructive dialogue.
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Cor Blimey may have a point. on 14:58 - Nov 29 with 2807 views
My wife and I have a great relationship. I decide all the big things and she decided the details. She decides where we live, where the kids go to school and takes care of the domestic budget whereas I decide if we should invade Syria.
"...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn."
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