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If he has any decency, he really should apologise for this comment in light of today's findings. But I find it hard to believe that he will or anyone else, who was or is part of the establishment, will.
It's certainly not a stretch to suggest a conspiracy between successive governments, police forces and News International going back to Wapping and beyond, which consistently promoted a "public order" agenda at the expense of people they all claimed to be protecting. I don't know about the police, and I accept the Taylor Report had the safety of fans as a significant driver, but football today continues to be shaped by the interests of government and NI, not fans.
It really is a tragedy that it took such a horrific event to make those with a duty of care take basic issues of ground safety certificates and crowd management seriously.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 14:57]
A magnificent football club, the love of our lives, finding a way to finally have its day in the sun.
If he has any decency, he really should apologise for this comment in light of today's findings. But I find it hard to believe that he will or anyone else, who was or is part of the establishment, will.
Johnson apologised and resigned from the shadow cabinet when the original article came out, and again when the 2012 report came out. How many times is enough?
Thanks for the clarification. Johnson still printed it, mind you.
There was a suggestion that Johnson was away the week it came out, but Heffer as his deputy went ahead and printed it without showing him. I don't know, but they certainly can't stand each other now.
Question 7: behaviour of the supporters Was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury’s answer: No.
If your answer to the question above is “no”, then was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury’s answer: No.
That will do for me.. Hope all the guilty get prosecuted and the families receive compensation.
Johnson apologised and resigned from the shadow cabinet when the original article came out, and again when the 2012 report came out. How many times is enough?
There was a suggestion that Johnson was away the week it came out, but Heffer as his deputy went ahead and printed it without showing him. I don't know, but they certainly can't stand each other now.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 15:08]
The piece went out without any byline on it, and Heffer only suggested he was the author 3 years ago when Johnson was running for Mayor of London.
So are you saying that possibly 1000's of fans arriving later than some others didn't contribute to 96 people being unlawfully killed?
They weren't late. It was one lie among many.
"Repeatedly played footage of the mass congestion which developed, Marshall [police officer responsible outside the ground] admitted that it was a problem starting at 2.15pm, with thousands more people still arriving, and by 2.35pm, police had “completely lost control”.
Given several million football supporters in the UK, if the sun and anyone advertising in it found the football family boycotting there products and services, the Sun would collapse in a very few short weeks through loss of advertising revenues.
Evolution must mean a better humanity and future without the odious Murdoch press.
Given several million football supporters in the UK, if the sun and anyone advertising in it found the football family boycotting there products and services, the Sun would collapse in a very few short weeks through loss of advertising revenues.
Evolution must mean a better humanity and future without the odious Murdoch press.
I again ask the question of those who call for boycotting the Sun, do you have Sky TV at home?
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
But those that maintain that some Liverpool fans may have contributed to the danger may have a point, I hate to say, by arriving late and by running. That's not to say that the unlawful killing is on their consciences - arriving late and running should never, never lead to deaths in any circumstance. Unless you add in cruelty and barbarism on the part of the authorities.
What's also uncomfortably true is that anyone from Rangers or any other club who engaged in hooliganism also contributed to the danger in that they helped create an environment where steel cages were deemed necessary.
I am delighted for the families that they got the correct verdict, but all fans of the 70's and 80's must also look inward.
Brian, you've hit a nail on the head that wasn't even sticking up!
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
"Repeatedly played footage of the mass congestion which developed, Marshall [police officer responsible outside the ground] admitted that it was a problem starting at 2.15pm, with thousands more people still arriving, and by 2.35pm, police had “completely lost control”.
So the majority of the fans were there by 2.15 when the first crush started,and that was getting worse by 2.35?What caused there to be more crushing?Fans leaving or arriving? This situation was critical at 2.52pm when the mistaken decision was made to open the gates to relieve the crush outside. If not many people arrived after 2.15,the authorities had 37 minutes to deal with a few thousand fans entering the stadium safely.Why did the crushes get worse the nearer it got to ko time if more fans didn't come later than 2.15? And judging by the film of the amount of fans inside the ground well before ko,how long did it take them to enter the stadium? If they couldn't get a couple of thousand inside in 37 minutes,I suggest the amount of fans already inside would have had to start entering the ground a few hours before 3pm.
So the majority of the fans were there by 2.15 when the first crush started,and that was getting worse by 2.35?What caused there to be more crushing?Fans leaving or arriving? This situation was critical at 2.52pm when the mistaken decision was made to open the gates to relieve the crush outside. If not many people arrived after 2.15,the authorities had 37 minutes to deal with a few thousand fans entering the stadium safely.Why did the crushes get worse the nearer it got to ko time if more fans didn't come later than 2.15? And judging by the film of the amount of fans inside the ground well before ko,how long did it take them to enter the stadium? If they couldn't get a couple of thousand inside in 37 minutes,I suggest the amount of fans already inside would have had to start entering the ground a few hours before 3pm.
Apparently Forest fans at the far end had 60 turnstiles for 25,000 people to enter. Liverpool fans at the other end had 23. There were just 7 to process the 10,000 capacity for the lower terrace. It seems unavoidable that there should be delays and a crush given how hard it used to be to get through 4 turnstiles into the away end at poxy Plough Lane.
If you think about the numbers, it's insane. If all 10,000 turned up at 2 o'clock, to get everyone in by kick-off, someone would have to pass through each turnstile every two-and-a-half seconds.
I have always kept up with this story over the years and read up a lot of the background and evidence and coroners reports on this tragic event as one of the 96 was in my class at school as I have stated on previous occasions. My take on the behavior of the Liverpool supporters has already remained the same over the years and is simply that the supporters were only doing what supporters do up and down the land and across the world regularly at matches and therefore the Police were not dealing with something out of the ordinary. The 24K Liverpool supporters were the same social mix of people that turn up to big events week in week out for decades you will always get crowds arriving at the turnstiles up until to the last minute and that day was no different. Duckensfield made the wrong decision at the wrong time and his decision to open the gate and not close the tunnel entrance beforehand lead directly to the deaths of 96 people.
Joe was in Pen 3 and was one of the ones who was dragged out and laid down in the penalty area early on at the Leppings Lane end. At his inquest the officer who oversaw taking his body to the gymnasium morgue admitted only to making cursory checks for signs of life when Joe was put on the pitch and did not to think to try CPR. In his pocket was a valid ticket for the match and he had been with mates in a pub before the game but was in the ground by 2:30pm and his parents and brother identified him alive in Pen 3 before kickoff through the BBC cameras footage of the lead up to the match. So there has always been concerns that some of the fans pulled out were not treated quick enough and perhaps might have recovered - but we will never know. His father never recovered from the shock and dropped dead a year later.
Apparently Forest fans at the far end had 60 turnstiles for 25,000 people to enter. Liverpool fans at the other end had 23. There were just 7 to process the 10,000 capacity for the lower terrace. It seems unavoidable that there should be delays and a crush given how hard it used to be to get through 4 turnstiles into the away end at poxy Plough Lane.
If you think about the numbers, it's insane. If all 10,000 turned up at 2 o'clock, to get everyone in by kick-off, someone would have to pass through each turnstile every two-and-a-half seconds.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 17:21]
It was also bad at Anfield for the 2nd leg of the semi final.It was about £2.25 to get in and they quickly ran out of change.To make it quicker we had to find someone else in the queue with change or pay for somebody else and get the money back from them instead. A fair few missed the ko that night.
I have always kept up with this story over the years and read up a lot of the background and evidence and coroners reports on this tragic event as one of the 96 was in my class at school as I have stated on previous occasions. My take on the behavior of the Liverpool supporters has already remained the same over the years and is simply that the supporters were only doing what supporters do up and down the land and across the world regularly at matches and therefore the Police were not dealing with something out of the ordinary. The 24K Liverpool supporters were the same social mix of people that turn up to big events week in week out for decades you will always get crowds arriving at the turnstiles up until to the last minute and that day was no different. Duckensfield made the wrong decision at the wrong time and his decision to open the gate and not close the tunnel entrance beforehand lead directly to the deaths of 96 people.
Joe was in Pen 3 and was one of the ones who was dragged out and laid down in the penalty area early on at the Leppings Lane end. At his inquest the officer who oversaw taking his body to the gymnasium morgue admitted only to making cursory checks for signs of life when Joe was put on the pitch and did not to think to try CPR. In his pocket was a valid ticket for the match and he had been with mates in a pub before the game but was in the ground by 2:30pm and his parents and brother identified him alive in Pen 3 before kickoff through the BBC cameras footage of the lead up to the match. So there has always been concerns that some of the fans pulled out were not treated quick enough and perhaps might have recovered - but we will never know. His father never recovered from the shock and dropped dead a year later.
I haven't said that Liverpool fans didn't do anything to what any other fans would've done on the day,and the majority of the blame has to be laid at the door of the police and authorities. We all used to turn up at away games as late as possible and luckily we all got away with it. It could've been any club's fans caught up at Hillsborough. RIP to the 96 innocent lives cut short.
I have always kept up with this story over the years and read up a lot of the background and evidence and coroners reports on this tragic event as one of the 96 was in my class at school as I have stated on previous occasions. My take on the behavior of the Liverpool supporters has already remained the same over the years and is simply that the supporters were only doing what supporters do up and down the land and across the world regularly at matches and therefore the Police were not dealing with something out of the ordinary. The 24K Liverpool supporters were the same social mix of people that turn up to big events week in week out for decades you will always get crowds arriving at the turnstiles up until to the last minute and that day was no different. Duckensfield made the wrong decision at the wrong time and his decision to open the gate and not close the tunnel entrance beforehand lead directly to the deaths of 96 people.
Joe was in Pen 3 and was one of the ones who was dragged out and laid down in the penalty area early on at the Leppings Lane end. At his inquest the officer who oversaw taking his body to the gymnasium morgue admitted only to making cursory checks for signs of life when Joe was put on the pitch and did not to think to try CPR. In his pocket was a valid ticket for the match and he had been with mates in a pub before the game but was in the ground by 2:30pm and his parents and brother identified him alive in Pen 3 before kickoff through the BBC cameras footage of the lead up to the match. So there has always been concerns that some of the fans pulled out were not treated quick enough and perhaps might have recovered - but we will never know. His father never recovered from the shock and dropped dead a year later.
That is exactly what is being suggested by some of the critical findings of the jury - that some more lives could have been saved with better organisation and control of the emergency services on the day.
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