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I attended numerous football matches in the 70's and 80's where, for one reason or another, there was serious 'crushing', people injured and on a couple of occasions, partial wall collapses. I hope that this terrible tragedy was instrumental in improving stadium safety, I certainly have not experienced similar for decades.
glad for the families those that died deserved justice and peace
only thing I don't agree with is
7. Behaviour of the supporters: Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury's answer: No
cant help thinking that's wrong you got hundreds if not thousands of Liverpool fans outside the ground delayed by traffic and the clocks ticking towards kickoff time ,are they going que and wait offcourse not they started pushing and the police lost control and opened the gates
anyone Remember that fa cup game QPR v wet spam pizanti scored and the crowed was spilling on the pitch overcrowded LUCKY we didn't have fences or we may have lost people too ,police just treated fans like animals back then the good and the bad
glad for the families those that died deserved justice and peace
only thing I don't agree with is
7. Behaviour of the supporters: Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury's answer: No
cant help thinking that's wrong you got hundreds if not thousands of Liverpool fans outside the ground delayed by traffic and the clocks ticking towards kickoff time ,are they going que and wait offcourse not they started pushing and the police lost control and opened the gates
anyone Remember that fa cup game QPR v wet spam pizanti scored and the crowed was spilling on the pitch overcrowded LUCKY we didn't have fences or we may have lost people too ,police just treated fans like animals back then the good and the bad
One of the partial wall collapses I was referring to was at Loftus Rd in the "70's, when Chelsea supporters surged forward and caused the boys enclosure to topple.
Apologies if this has been covered already but can't be arsed to read all 4 pages.
Everyone keeps hyping on about justice for the 96, what justice have they got today ?
Justice will be when the person or persons responsible for the death of the 96 are tried and convicted for their deaths. That is justice.
Every football fan up and down the country will still have their opinions on what went on that day no matter what today's verdict said because most of us have been to games when plod fckd up and opened or closed a gate only for a sudden rush, some drunk,some without tickets and just fans with tickets wanting to see kick off.Not closing the middle gate to the terrace before opening the outside gate is inexcusable.
Was a nice verdict for the families but was it real justice ?
Apologies if this has been covered already but can't be arsed to read all 4 pages.
Everyone keeps hyping on about justice for the 96, what justice have they got today ?
Justice will be when the person or persons responsible for the death of the 96 are tried and convicted for their deaths. That is justice.
Every football fan up and down the country will still have their opinions on what went on that day no matter what today's verdict said because most of us have been to games when plod fckd up and opened or closed a gate only for a sudden rush, some drunk,some without tickets and just fans with tickets wanting to see kick off.Not closing the middle gate to the terrace before opening the outside gate is inexcusable.
Was a nice verdict for the families but was it real justice ?
Well to get the justice you speak of there has to be a trial. For there to be a trial there has to be an inquest that rules they were unlawfully killed. That was today, so now there can be a trial, and the justice you speak of.
We played up there the week or so before, the South Yorkshire plod are up there with the Nottinghamshire plod as some of the biggest cûnts in this country, treated each and every football fan as a villain.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
We played up there the week or so before, the South Yorkshire plod are up there with the Nottinghamshire plod as some of the biggest cûnts in this country, treated each and every football fan as a villain.
I was there as well. We were herded into one of the middle pens even though there was only about 600-800 Rangers we were all squeezed through the tunnel leading to the terrace. It was chilling to see what happened a few weeks later.
Liverpool is a handsome city with a tribal sense of community. A combination of economic misfortune – its docks were, fundamentally, on the wrong side of England when Britain entered what is now the European Union – and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians. They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society. The deaths of more than 50 Liverpool football supporters at Hillsborough in 1989 was undeniably a greater tragedy than the single death, however horrible, of Mr Bigley; but that is no excuse for Liverpool’s failure to acknowledge, even to this day, the part played in the disaster by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground that Saturday afternoon. The police became a convenient scapegoat, and the Sun newspaper a whipping-boy for daring, albeit in a tasteless fashion, to hint at the wider causes of the incident.
What a utter dick that man is!!!
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Well to get the justice you speak of there has to be a trial. For there to be a trial there has to be an inquest that rules they were unlawfully killed. That was today, so now there can be a trial, and the justice you speak of.
The only thing I'd say about all this is that when Liverpool lost the Champions League final a few years back (the one after 2005), eye witnesses - including my sister-in-law who was there - saw Liverpool fans bundling in without tickets and literally ripping tickets out of the hands of younger fans.
Not saying that that changes anything but it happened.
[Post edited 26 Apr 2016 21:25]
ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH MARTI THE REDEEMER WHO STRENGTHENS ME.
We played up there the week or so before, the South Yorkshire plod are up there with the Nottinghamshire plod as some of the biggest cûnts in this country, treated each and every football fan as a villain.
Having also been at that game, you're bang on!
As I entered the ground, a young pup of a copper came over and demanded to go through my wallet. SWFC were struggling at the time and as I took the wallet back off him I said "You won't find a striker in there to get you out of trouble!" He looked confused.
I suspect such a dopey prick did nothing tangible if he was working on that fateful day a few weeks after we were up there.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Neither Thd Sun nor The Times have even mentioned it on the fronts. Not exactly a hot news selection they've gone with either.
Unsurprising but shameful.
Even from reading the odd comment on this thread it's clear how far their original, possibly intentional, misrepresentation of the events that day have seeped into the public psyche. They have a responsibility, if not a moral obligation, to do everything they can to correct this.
Lets hope this can finally be put to bed. It happened in an era where lets be honest hooliganism was rife and there was no proper health and safety regulations back then. I remember a crush happening at our ground in the paddocks late 80s where too many fans were packed in. Luckily i could get onto the pitch. All seater stadiums is the outcome of Hillsborough and lots of lessons learnt. Fairplay to those that kept pursuing this and getting a truer picture of events instead of the lies that were originally put out. I do feel it was more than just the polices fault but it was their lies and cover ups which are indefensible.
Lets hope this can finally be put to bed. It happened in an era where lets be honest hooliganism was rife and there was no proper health and safety regulations back then. I remember a crush happening at our ground in the paddocks late 80s where too many fans were packed in. Luckily i could get onto the pitch. All seater stadiums is the outcome of Hillsborough and lots of lessons learnt. Fairplay to those that kept pursuing this and getting a truer picture of events instead of the lies that were originally put out. I do feel it was more than just the polices fault but it was their lies and cover ups which are indefensible.
Was that against United in about 1987? They'd won about three in a row, and suddenly 10,000 extra "fans" turned up. I was on the East paddock that day, and thinking how ridiculous it was that I was being lifted off my feet and shunted around on a terrace about twenty steps deep, while I could see lots of empty space on the (members' only Loft) about 10 yards away. As the police started pulling people out of the front to move them over, a guy on the loft was waving his membership card and screaming at the police not to let them in.
I went to watch Tottenham play up there with one of my brothers and his mates about six months before the disaster, and we were packed so tightly into the pen behind the goal, that my brother was worried about our safety and we spent most of the first half trying to push our way out and then paid a steward a fiver to let us go into the seats in the upper deck.
This was the match and you can see from the start of the footage how packed the pen to the right of the goal as you’re looking at the pitch was, despite there being acres of empty terrace either side of the two pens that were open. I was still at school at the time, but had been in crowds at Arsenal before where my feet didn’t touch the ground from outside the ground until I left again, where I’d been crushed against walls entering/exiting the ground, and I’d been in the middle of packed terraces when it was kicking-off, so I wasn’t a stranger to uncomfortable experiences on a terrace, but that pen at Wednesday felt completely different and a fair few people were transferring up to the seats.
I absolutely love Hillsborough as a ground, but the Leppings Lane was poorly designed — you just came through the turnstiles and all you saw was that central tunnel right in front of you. I had no idea there was any other way onto that terrace until after the disaster.
Reading that David Conn piece and hearing family members talking about their losses…unbelievably upsetting. You don't expect to die a terrible death at a football match. A complete and utter fu ck-up from South Yorks police and a refusal to admit culpability for the complete inability to manage or react to events as they unfolded, whilst continuing to lie and smear the fans in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Looking at footage of the disaster for the first time in a while and looking at the victims ages, it’s striking just how many of the fans were teenagers or in their early twenties — another way in which top level football was to change immeasurably following the disaster.
A lot has been said about the families - and rightly so.
I am wondering what action will follow from the CPS. One thing that alarmed me was that Hillsborough, at the time, did not apparently have a valid safety certificate. I should imagine that the buck stops with the FA for that one.
It's hard to say that anything positive has come from this, other than the fact that stadiums are now safer and that the families have some closure. Saying that, if you Google streetview around Hillsborough it looks much the same as it did in 1989, so it does make you wonder how much has really changed, other than seating replacing terracing. I guess you could say the same about Loftus Rd.
"Thank you for supporting Queens Park Rangers Steep Staircase"... and I thought I'd signed up for a rollercoaster.
There was footage shown on the BBC website of another semi-final in 1981 and similar things were happening (fans climbing over fencing) etc, albeit on a smaller scale and without any fatalities - a warning shot if ever there was one. We sometimes have a joke these days about 'health and safety going mad' - but the 70s and 80s seems to be the polar opposite.
"Thank you for supporting Queens Park Rangers Steep Staircase"... and I thought I'd signed up for a rollercoaster.
I went to watch Tottenham play up there with one of my brothers and his mates about six months before the disaster, and we were packed so tightly into the pen behind the goal, that my brother was worried about our safety and we spent most of the first half trying to push our way out and then paid a steward a fiver to let us go into the seats in the upper deck.
This was the match and you can see from the start of the footage how packed the pen to the right of the goal as you’re looking at the pitch was, despite there being acres of empty terrace either side of the two pens that were open. I was still at school at the time, but had been in crowds at Arsenal before where my feet didn’t touch the ground from outside the ground until I left again, where I’d been crushed against walls entering/exiting the ground, and I’d been in the middle of packed terraces when it was kicking-off, so I wasn’t a stranger to uncomfortable experiences on a terrace, but that pen at Wednesday felt completely different and a fair few people were transferring up to the seats.
I absolutely love Hillsborough as a ground, but the Leppings Lane was poorly designed — you just came through the turnstiles and all you saw was that central tunnel right in front of you. I had no idea there was any other way onto that terrace until after the disaster.
Reading that David Conn piece and hearing family members talking about their losses…unbelievably upsetting. You don't expect to die a terrible death at a football match. A complete and utter fu ck-up from South Yorks police and a refusal to admit culpability for the complete inability to manage or react to events as they unfolded, whilst continuing to lie and smear the fans in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Looking at footage of the disaster for the first time in a while and looking at the victims ages, it’s striking just how many of the fans were teenagers or in their early twenties — another way in which top level football was to change immeasurably following the disaster.
Some good points there Konk , we as supporters did live in a different era to now even if it wasn't a full terrace you would still be crammed in one pen, the old dell was like that and I remember being crammed in at WHL back in the day when there was another pen to the right of us that could have been used if you think back it seemed bizarre how Hillsborough didn't happen a lot more or sooner considering how football fans were treated I do hope its not just Duckenfield who gets nicked (I think he will be chief scapegoat & fall guy) , but all of the police who forged there notes that day , and all of the senior officers who helped cover it up , I hope they have there pensions frozen and any compensation they received given back to the families Football had to change after that day , I think it did it for the worse I don't recognise any of it anymore and the real shame is that mates or young lads don't go in groups anymore (to expensive) that's what's killed it , you cant go with 6 of your mates and stand anywhere
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
glad for the families those that died deserved justice and peace
only thing I don't agree with is
7. Behaviour of the supporters: Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?
Jury's answer: No
cant help thinking that's wrong you got hundreds if not thousands of Liverpool fans outside the ground delayed by traffic and the clocks ticking towards kickoff time ,are they going que and wait offcourse not they started pushing and the police lost control and opened the gates
anyone Remember that fa cup game QPR v wet spam pizanti scored and the crowed was spilling on the pitch overcrowded LUCKY we didn't have fences or we may have lost people too ,police just treated fans like animals back then the good and the bad
I went to the same Forest v Liverpool semi at Hillsbrough one year earlier, in the Kop with Forest fans. I can promise you there were plenty of very drunk people there. The bus I got on from Sheffield station to the ground was full of p1ssed up Forest fans. They delayed us getting off outside the stadium for a while and several of them urinated on the top deck of the bus. I'm sure the Liverpool contingent were no different.
While the police failings are well documented, I don't believe for a minute the fans did not contribute to the problems. Painting them as saints is wrong. Those who died were innocent of course, as they were in the ground early.
Inside the ground I spent the whole first half hoping Forest wouldn't score as it was very crushed and I was on a barrier. After half time it improved when people moved around a bit. Its one of the few games I have been at where I feared for my safety due to crowding. Another was a sup semi at White Hart Lane when I was in the away end with an Arsenal mate. They had to open the fence gates that night to get people out.
Anyone who attended matches in the 1980s would be familiar with the utter contempt football fans were treated with due to the hooligan minority. The Thatcher government fuelled this with talk of ID cards etc. Getting off a train or coach in an away town to be greeted by hostile police spoiling for some aggro, pushing people around etc - this was commonplace. The places this did not happen stood out. I still recall being shocked to be greeted by really friendly police at Southampton one time. This entrenched attitude to football fans certainly played a big part in what happened that day.
There was footage shown on the BBC website of another semi-final in 1981 and similar things were happening (fans climbing over fencing) etc, albeit on a smaller scale and without any fatalities - a warning shot if ever there was one. We sometimes have a joke these days about 'health and safety going mad' - but the 70s and 80s seems to be the polar opposite.
Yeah, the Spurs v Wolves semi in 1981 was a lucky near miss. Nearly forty people injured but thankfully no fatalities. Hillsborough didn't get another semi until 1987 after that but nothing had really changed apparently leading to the events in 1989.
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