| Brexit Argument Over on 08:45 - May 18 with 1633 views | Discodroids |
: Vote Remain on the 23rd of June then report for Tagging in Red sector L on the 24th :
The Future is Here.Stay Calm .Vote Leave.
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| Brexit Argument Over on 08:58 - May 18 with 1614 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Brexit Argument Over on 22:16 - May 17 by komradkirk |
In Northern Ireland opinion appears to be confused going on soundings from the main parties.
Unionist favour OUT
Nationalists favour IN
Initially i was strongly in favour of out then i was weighing up the in options but i would struggle to agree with Cameron on what day it was.
confused loyalist socialist....i may need to start my own party...just what we need. |
Made me smile. I often think the same about needing a new party! |  |
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| Brexit Argument Over on 09:05 - May 18 with 1609 views | TheBlob |
| Brexit Argument Over on 23:41 - May 17 by johncharles |
FFS I've given you a down arrow. Oops |
Heeeeeeheeeeeeee.....dun the same. |  |
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| Brexit Argument Over on 09:18 - May 18 with 1590 views | stevec |
| Brexit Argument Over on 19:33 - May 17 by stumbleandfall |
You are my favourite outer on this board. Working your tail off. I do wonder how many boards you post on.
Don't have £10k, let alone put a bet on for that amount. I'll say this Remain will be somewhere between 56-62%. You might say I'm hedging but you can publicly remind me if I'm wrong. If there is a betting site where you can make a bet similar to this and odds are acceptable and I will put £50 on that.
Farage is getting desperate. Leading a disparate, dishevelled, highly dysfunctional and divided party. That man NEEDS the Brussels gravy train. Has a nice lifestyle in sleepy Western to pay for. |
It might be a lot closer than you think.
30 mill voted at General election, of which 11.5m Tory and 4m UKIP. You can be pretty certain the 4m UKIP voters will be out in force and I'd hazard a 'conservative' guess around 60% of Tories will vote Leave, That's 11m votes for Leave straight off.
That would mean Remain would need 15 mill of the remaining 19 mill voters, almost 80%, and that's assuming the same kind of turn out.
You might be right though, the liberals and left love a bit of bureaucratic rule, even if it means the rich get richer and poor getting poorer, they'll vote for it. Turkeys, Christmas etc
Vote Leave |  | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 09:24 - May 18 with 1582 views | MedwayR |
The way I see it is that the EU is an erosion of democracy. We, the voting public, have no control over the EU and are unable to hold it to account but despite this the EU can enforce whatever they like upon us. How can that be right?!!
If there was a box on the ballot paper during the general election whereby you could have voted for our country to be run by the EU would you have ticked it? I doubt it but that's the situation we currently find ourselves in, do we want to be ruled by an EU dictatorship or get out while we can? |  |
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| Brexit Argument Over on 09:50 - May 18 with 1563 views | stumbleandfall |
| Brexit Argument Over on 09:24 - May 18 by MedwayR |
The way I see it is that the EU is an erosion of democracy. We, the voting public, have no control over the EU and are unable to hold it to account but despite this the EU can enforce whatever they like upon us. How can that be right?!!
If there was a box on the ballot paper during the general election whereby you could have voted for our country to be run by the EU would you have ticked it? I doubt it but that's the situation we currently find ourselves in, do we want to be ruled by an EU dictatorship or get out while we can? |
This is the argument I disagree with most.
Our democracy and sovereignty is not eroded by the EU.
A far greater erosion is from Murdoch, Lebedev, Desmond and the Barclay brothers and their puppets in the Tories and UKIP (Johnson, Gove. Farage, Duncan-Smith, Villiers et al). These people have an agenda with a regressive, diversive, greedy outlook which is not beneficial to ordinary people of the UK.
Not even started on the companies, hedge funds and wealthy private individuals who abuse the UK daily with their complete lack of a moral compass and paying what's fair.
These are the real obstacles to democracy and sovereignty and this whole EU debate is a diversion to identify the real problems with our country. |  | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:12 - May 18 with 1542 views | stevec |
| Brexit Argument Over on 09:50 - May 18 by stumbleandfall |
This is the argument I disagree with most.
Our democracy and sovereignty is not eroded by the EU.
A far greater erosion is from Murdoch, Lebedev, Desmond and the Barclay brothers and their puppets in the Tories and UKIP (Johnson, Gove. Farage, Duncan-Smith, Villiers et al). These people have an agenda with a regressive, diversive, greedy outlook which is not beneficial to ordinary people of the UK.
Not even started on the companies, hedge funds and wealthy private individuals who abuse the UK daily with their complete lack of a moral compass and paying what's fair.
These are the real obstacles to democracy and sovereignty and this whole EU debate is a diversion to identify the real problems with our country. |
If you vote remain, you're voting for more of the same.
Cheap labour, rich corporations, out of reach house prices, no control on numbers entering the country, it's all happening under the umbrella of the EU. Why do you think the Bank of England, Big business, leaders of all the political parties want to stay in, they all know where their pockets are lined. | | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:28 - May 18 with 1526 views | QPRDave |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:12 - May 18 by stevec |
If you vote remain, you're voting for more of the same.
Cheap labour, rich corporations, out of reach house prices, no control on numbers entering the country, it's all happening under the umbrella of the EU. Why do you think the Bank of England, Big business, leaders of all the political parties want to stay in, they all know where their pockets are lined. |
Spot on. |  | | |
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| Brexit Argument Over on 10:31 - May 18 with 1521 views | MedwayR |
| Brexit Argument Over on 09:50 - May 18 by stumbleandfall |
This is the argument I disagree with most.
Our democracy and sovereignty is not eroded by the EU.
A far greater erosion is from Murdoch, Lebedev, Desmond and the Barclay brothers and their puppets in the Tories and UKIP (Johnson, Gove. Farage, Duncan-Smith, Villiers et al). These people have an agenda with a regressive, diversive, greedy outlook which is not beneficial to ordinary people of the UK.
Not even started on the companies, hedge funds and wealthy private individuals who abuse the UK daily with their complete lack of a moral compass and paying what's fair.
These are the real obstacles to democracy and sovereignty and this whole EU debate is a diversion to identify the real problems with our country. |
I don't disagree with your view on those but the fact is that the EU, a body which we didn't elect, enforces laws upon the UK even if we disagree with those laws. That isn't right. A prime example being when Cameron wanted to change OUR benefits system, he had to go and see the manager (the EU), if our Prime Minister is powerless to change the way our country is run then the elections are pointless and we are being run by an EU dictatorship. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:41 - May 18 with 1507 views | DannytheR |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:31 - May 18 by MedwayR |
I don't disagree with your view on those but the fact is that the EU, a body which we didn't elect, enforces laws upon the UK even if we disagree with those laws. That isn't right. A prime example being when Cameron wanted to change OUR benefits system, he had to go and see the manager (the EU), if our Prime Minister is powerless to change the way our country is run then the elections are pointless and we are being run by an EU dictatorship. |
I think what he's asking is why the unelected powers of the EU bother people so much more than the unelected powers of Murdoch and the City.
You never get answer to that. Just more stuff about immigrants. [Post edited 18 May 2016 11:13]
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| Brexit Argument Over on 10:43 - May 18 with 1508 views | stumbleandfall |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:12 - May 18 by stevec |
If you vote remain, you're voting for more of the same.
Cheap labour, rich corporations, out of reach house prices, no control on numbers entering the country, it's all happening under the umbrella of the EU. Why do you think the Bank of England, Big business, leaders of all the political parties want to stay in, they all know where their pockets are lined. |
I disagree.
Vote to leave equals less regulation, less oversight, less protections for workers. Exactly the condition many of those I mentioned want.
I much rather the monolith of the EU protect our workers right than those of a BJ led Tory party with strings pulled by rampant right wing media and blood sucking city types. | | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:56 - May 18 with 1485 views | daveB |
i'm more worried about the lunatics we have elected rather than the ones in Europe who we didn't. |  | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 15:08 - May 18 with 1413 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:43 - May 18 by stumbleandfall |
I disagree.
Vote to leave equals less regulation, less oversight, less protections for workers. Exactly the condition many of those I mentioned want.
I much rather the monolith of the EU protect our workers right than those of a BJ led Tory party with strings pulled by rampant right wing media and blood sucking city types. |
I disagree too .
If you vote to remain your are voting to be part of whatever the EU becomes in the future. Dont think you are voting for the status quo .
Brussels would see a remain however slim as a ringing endorsement by the UK population of the the European project. .
Neither In or Out is a no risk option but only Out gives you redress at the ballot box .
Camerons "reforms" have been universally laughed out of the picture . They havnt been ratified by the European parliament and will get voted down . It will be" back on track and dont forget your payment for June is due "
Leave will increase wages and bring food prices down according to the leader of the Remain campaign .
Remain will bring a constant supply of migrant workers earning less than their personal allowance so paying no tax , but needing housing, medicine and education and as we recently found out a large proportion being short term stayers(to be replaced by the next ones) so not even trying to integrate . It will also bring TTIP or a revised version of it. .
What option is best for lower paid workers struggling ?
The blood sucking city types want to stay by the way and there are better candidates for PM than Boris . |  | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 15:24 - May 18 with 1400 views | Rs_Holy |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:56 - May 18 by daveB |
i'm more worried about the lunatics we have elected rather than the ones in Europe who we didn't. |
Well at least you will get a chance to vote them out next time.... (unlike our mates in Brussels!). |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:40 - May 18 with 1381 views | essextaxiboy |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:41 - May 18 by DannytheR |
I think what he's asking is why the unelected powers of the EU bother people so much more than the unelected powers of Murdoch and the City.
You never get answer to that. Just more stuff about immigrants. [Post edited 18 May 2016 11:13]
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The powers in the city want to stay in | | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 15:42 - May 18 with 1376 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit Argument Over on 10:56 - May 18 by daveB |
i'm more worried about the lunatics we have elected rather than the ones in Europe who we didn't. |
Straight question .
Which ones have you got any power to sack? ...however small | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:05 - May 18 with 1357 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:41 - May 18 by DannytheR |
I think what he's asking is why the unelected powers of the EU bother people so much more than the unelected powers of Murdoch and the City.
You never get answer to that. Just more stuff about immigrants. [Post edited 18 May 2016 11:13]
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They bother me more because they can't be voted out. At least there is a chance, however slim, that our own government can come to represent 'us' as opposed to 'them'.
The groupings of the likes of Murdoch (although currently pretending otherwise) the City and, by natural extension, the major global financial and corporate institutions all want us to stay in as they know that the vehicle of centralised enforceable power that can control a country's laws remotely will be able to cement their currently covert 'unelected power' into something much more overt and irriversible.
As Essextaxiboy crucially points out, a remain vote will not be one about retaining the status quo but rather one that binds us to a very real and imminent power grab by the very forces/organisations that you oppose. [Post edited 18 May 2016 16:09]
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| Brexit Argument Over on 16:49 - May 18 with 1320 views | daveB |
| Brexit Argument Over on 15:42 - May 18 by essextaxiboy |
Straight question .
Which ones have you got any power to sack? ...however small |
don't we have european elections to have our say in the EU, no one ever seems to vote in these though which is why idiots like Farage get in | | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 16:50 - May 18 with 1317 views | daveB |
| Brexit Argument Over on 15:08 - May 18 by essextaxiboy |
I disagree too .
If you vote to remain your are voting to be part of whatever the EU becomes in the future. Dont think you are voting for the status quo .
Brussels would see a remain however slim as a ringing endorsement by the UK population of the the European project. .
Neither In or Out is a no risk option but only Out gives you redress at the ballot box .
Camerons "reforms" have been universally laughed out of the picture . They havnt been ratified by the European parliament and will get voted down . It will be" back on track and dont forget your payment for June is due "
Leave will increase wages and bring food prices down according to the leader of the Remain campaign .
Remain will bring a constant supply of migrant workers earning less than their personal allowance so paying no tax , but needing housing, medicine and education and as we recently found out a large proportion being short term stayers(to be replaced by the next ones) so not even trying to integrate . It will also bring TTIP or a revised version of it. .
What option is best for lower paid workers struggling ?
The blood sucking city types want to stay by the way and there are better candidates for PM than Boris . |
how will wages increase if we leave? Not a pop just genuinely interested as I can't see how anyone can say that | | | |
| Brexit Argument Over on 17:53 - May 18 with 1280 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit Argument Over on 16:50 - May 18 by daveB |
how will wages increase if we leave? Not a pop just genuinely interested as I can't see how anyone can say that |
If you have a limitless supply of labour that are happy to work for the minimum wage as its more than they would get at home then thats the level of wages that will be paid .Why pay more ? .
Stop that labour supply and employers will compete for the available labour with higher wages and better conditions .Supply and demand . | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:26 - May 18 with 1259 views | DannytheR |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:05 - May 18 by 1BobbyHazell |
They bother me more because they can't be voted out. At least there is a chance, however slim, that our own government can come to represent 'us' as opposed to 'them'.
The groupings of the likes of Murdoch (although currently pretending otherwise) the City and, by natural extension, the major global financial and corporate institutions all want us to stay in as they know that the vehicle of centralised enforceable power that can control a country's laws remotely will be able to cement their currently covert 'unelected power' into something much more overt and irriversible.
As Essextaxiboy crucially points out, a remain vote will not be one about retaining the status quo but rather one that binds us to a very real and imminent power grab by the very forces/organisations that you oppose. [Post edited 18 May 2016 16:09]
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Why would Murdoch be pretending to want us leave the EU? Honestly can't make head nor tail of that one.
I'm also all ears as to what a government led by Johnson and Farage is planning to do about abuses of power by corporations.
"A great project" and "Churchillian" - that's your man Boris on TTIP as recently as 2014. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:33 - May 18 with 1247 views | johncharles |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:05 - May 18 by 1BobbyHazell |
They bother me more because they can't be voted out. At least there is a chance, however slim, that our own government can come to represent 'us' as opposed to 'them'.
The groupings of the likes of Murdoch (although currently pretending otherwise) the City and, by natural extension, the major global financial and corporate institutions all want us to stay in as they know that the vehicle of centralised enforceable power that can control a country's laws remotely will be able to cement their currently covert 'unelected power' into something much more overt and irriversible.
As Essextaxiboy crucially points out, a remain vote will not be one about retaining the status quo but rather one that binds us to a very real and imminent power grab by the very forces/organisations that you oppose. [Post edited 18 May 2016 16:09]
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Is that why Boris wants us out ? Is he championing the ordinary man against the evil of globalised finance and Murdoch's treacherous empire ? Perhaps I've miss judged him.
The fat bastard. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Brexit Argument Over on 18:35 - May 18 with 1243 views | HollowayRanger |
NOTICE how quiet the EU has been of late
waiting till we sign our country away then shafting us with yet more rules and demands |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:37 - May 18 with 1237 views | DannytheR |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:40 - May 18 by essextaxiboy |
The powers in the city want to stay in |
But that's not the point that was being made.
If the problem with Britain is unelected power, then let's talk about all unelected power. Including Murdoch, including the City.
Murdoch has had a ugly, toxic, destructive effect on British life for the last 35 years. Ask Millie Downer's parents. Ask the Hillsborough families.
I've heard nish from you about that, other than to start a thread saying you read The Sun.
[Post edited 18 May 2016 18:42]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:44 - May 18 with 1222 views | stumbleandfall |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:40 - May 18 by essextaxiboy |
The powers in the city want to stay in |
No they don't.
Maybe the global financials regulated by global stock exchanges and shareholders do, but the Hedge Funds with billions in shorts, the exploitation of destressed companies and other such practices don't
These casino boys hate the EU and the regulatory oversight. These boys need those handcuffs. They are positively creaming themselves and the unregulated possibilities that a new Tory Administration would allow.
It will be like the last days of Gomorrah and it'll be the ordinary folks left to pick up the pieces. [Post edited 18 May 2016 18:46]
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