| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? 08:39 - Jul 22 with 14632 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Meant to ask this question a few times but this article prompted me. It's a decent thought process without being brilliant from a journalist who is brave though not always logical, but I found it interesting and it's prompted me to finally ask you good people - what is it about Corbyn that scares the Guardian?
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-07-22/why-corbyn-so-terrifies-the-guardia
I don't read the paper as much as I used to but I follow it on facebook and there's a daily 'cut-and-paste'-type hate-Corbyn article that's almost Orwellian at this stage.
Is the Guardian no longer left-wing?
Is it personal?
Do they support an opponent in particular?
Is he dangerous? Or dangerously bad?
I'd really appreciate any insight.
Now, where's that music thread... [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 8:40]
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 06:41 - Jul 23 with 2671 views | essextaxiboy |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 23:46 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
I'd rather try to help them become smart, hard-working people somewhere with a decent future while I'm still alive. |
I understand that but what about your house , your pension fund, jewellery and cash .
Should that all go to the state ?
If you give it all to them while you are alive they still get the wealth that they havnt earned . I suppose they do get to say thanks , but you get to live the end of your life impoverished .
And of course (hopefully you dont) ..you could die tomorrow . |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 08:30 - Jul 23 with 2634 views | martincook |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 00:58 - Jul 23 by NW5Hoop |
Jonathan Cook is someone who worked for the Guardian, then was dispensed with. If you look through his blog, you will find scores of posts about the evils of the Guardian and how it is responsible for the injustices of the world.
Whenever you come across someone who used to work for the nationals, but who now runs their own blog and contributes to fringe publications, ask yourself why that happened to them. It is NEVER because their previous employer was afraid of their fearless truthtelling. |
Your disdain for Jonathan Cook begins to sound a bit personal. Why should he not post about the evils of the Guardian? Do none exist? Broad generalisation won't win you any argument. I find your remark about fellow journalists who used to work for the nationals condescending and unworthy. It would, for example, be quite legitimate to leave because of concerns about the employer's inability to tell the truth fearlessly, rather than the other way round. This might be particularly true of a newspaper which, as you put it, "dispenses" with people. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 08:34 - Jul 23 with 2632 views | Brightonhoop |
Peace out Brothers. It's all ok. We've got a Thunderbirds villain for PM in No 10 and the new nuclear sub crashed in Gibraltar. What could possibly go wrong?  |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:38 - Jul 23 with 2602 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:11 - Jul 22 by LazyFan |
HI,
I am sorry you cannot be a Left liberal paper as that means you still want capitalism. The Left do not want capitalism/moneyism they want socialism.
Interesting that you say 2010 was a terrible error as this one I could understand from a Guardian point of view. Once ConDem had been seen I am not sure going for the Liberals again even works in 2015 (your other link is for May 1st and not the day before the election when they changed tack went with the Liberals again I believe). |
Lazy, I would have thought that the Left have always included far more than socialists. Most liberals are left of centre, most social democrats are left of centre. The very first left-wingers were in France and they pre-dated socialism. | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:38 - Jul 23 with 2543 views | johncharles |
And in today's Guardian a two page spread..........Owen Smith, complete with large colour portrait of the nonentity looking casual with a cheesy smile.
Small inset saying "Corbyn urged to stop the bullies" as if theGuardian and a hundred odd MP's ganging up on Corbyn is not bullying.
Heart string tugging smaltzy picture of Prince George on page 7 [Post edited 23 Jul 2016 11:40]
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 12:17 - Jul 23 with 2529 views | NW5Hoop |
Christ, this thread has brought out the green ink brigade.
I admit it. You're all right.
We hate Corbyn. We hate him because we are afraid he will destroy the establishment, of which we are part. My remarks about Jonathan Cook are not based on the bonkersness of his blog, but my fear that he is actually uncovering the truth about the conspirators who run the newspaper. His tenure as a freelancer working for the Guardian - not a staffer - ended because we were afraid.
But at least I know you all care.
PS A spread on Owen Smith is proof we hate Corbyn? What about the stories we ran earlier this week about his work with Pfizer, which were widely circulated as proof he was a corporate shill? How does that fit into the Hate Corbyn narrative?
I'm going to have to ignore this thread. The level of ignorance is making me too angry. [Post edited 23 Jul 2016 12:17]
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 12:34 - Jul 23 with 2515 views | johncharles |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 12:17 - Jul 23 by NW5Hoop |
Christ, this thread has brought out the green ink brigade.
I admit it. You're all right.
We hate Corbyn. We hate him because we are afraid he will destroy the establishment, of which we are part. My remarks about Jonathan Cook are not based on the bonkersness of his blog, but my fear that he is actually uncovering the truth about the conspirators who run the newspaper. His tenure as a freelancer working for the Guardian - not a staffer - ended because we were afraid.
But at least I know you all care.
PS A spread on Owen Smith is proof we hate Corbyn? What about the stories we ran earlier this week about his work with Pfizer, which were widely circulated as proof he was a corporate shill? How does that fit into the Hate Corbyn narrative?
I'm going to have to ignore this thread. The level of ignorance is making me too angry. [Post edited 23 Jul 2016 12:17]
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Everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. | |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 12:37 - Jul 23 with 2515 views | kensalriser |
The left has always been hobbled by its tendency at important times to split into bolsheviks and mensheviks. By comparison the Tories had a swift night of the long knives and have now closed ranks under the new regime. |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 13:13 - Jul 23 with 2503 views | martincook |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 12:17 - Jul 23 by NW5Hoop |
Christ, this thread has brought out the green ink brigade.
I admit it. You're all right.
We hate Corbyn. We hate him because we are afraid he will destroy the establishment, of which we are part. My remarks about Jonathan Cook are not based on the bonkersness of his blog, but my fear that he is actually uncovering the truth about the conspirators who run the newspaper. His tenure as a freelancer working for the Guardian - not a staffer - ended because we were afraid.
But at least I know you all care.
PS A spread on Owen Smith is proof we hate Corbyn? What about the stories we ran earlier this week about his work with Pfizer, which were widely circulated as proof he was a corporate shill? How does that fit into the Hate Corbyn narrative?
I'm going to have to ignore this thread. The level of ignorance is making me too angry. [Post edited 23 Jul 2016 12:17]
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"Level of ignorance"? Oooh-er! I think we'd all better ignore this thread, the level of condescension has lowered the tone of the debate. [Post edited 23 Jul 2016 15:34]
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:21 - Jul 24 with 2395 views | TacticalR |
In the past The Guardian has always struck me as a nest of Keynesianism, and these days we are talking about very modest Keynesianism. Perhaps the antagonistic tone of some of its articles about Corbyn stem from this? Many years ago I used to read a lot of Chris Huhne's Keynesian stuff when he was economics editor of the Guardian. In 2010 he became Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change in the Liberal-Tory Coalition government, before ending up in prison in 2013.
The aristocratic Keynes certainly had little enthusiasm for socialism:
'I can be influenced by what seems to me to be justice and good sense; but the class war will find me on the side of the educated bourgeoisie.'
Am I a Liberal? (1925)
The Labour Party has rarely had any ideas of its own. Keynes, the theoretician of state intervention, was a Liberal as was William Beveridge, the architect of the welfare state. The welfare schemes of the Liberals (rebranded as socialism) were put into practice during and after the war - 'the welfare state is a warfare state'.
The real story of Corbyn is not so much Corbyn himself as the complete intellectual disintegration of the mainstream of the Labour Party. Corbyn may be uncharismatic but the candidates being fielded against him are empty vessels with absolutely nothing to say. The problem goes back to the abandonment of Keynesianism in the 1970s. In retrospect it's obvious that Keynesianism, far from being able to overcome the crises of capitalism is dependent on the health of capitalism. As capitalism stagnates there is little room for state schemes, although of course as a last resort banks and other businesses will be rescued to maintain capitalist stability (otherwise, as George Bush put it in 2008, 'this sucker could go down').
There also seems to be considerable confusion in the Corbyn camp. When Corbyn and John McDonnell first arrived in 2015 McDonnell said that the party would vote in favour of Conservative Chancellor George Osborne's proposed fiscal charter:
John McDonnell: Labour will match Osborne and live within our means
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/25/john-mcdonnell-labour-will-match
The only clear policy that Corbyn seems to have is scrapping Trident. All the rest seems to be vague talk about ethical values. I agree with Jonathan Cook that Corbyn 'exudes a Zen-like calm' although how to interpret this remains to be seen. Most of the anti-Corbyn stuff (anti-semitism, bullying) appears to be hysterical victim-culture stuff put out by vacuous Labour MPs.
In some ways the debate about Labour parallels the Brexit debate. There does not seem to be a way forward or a way back:
'Step back from the chaotic nightmare engulfing the Labour party and two points are strikingly clear: Jeremy Corbyn needs a new parliamentary party; and the parliamentary party needs a new leader. A third point arises from the previous two. The current impasse between the leader and his MPs cannot last until 2020, still the most probable year an election will be called. Yet after the leadership contest Labour MPs will probably have Corbyn as their leader and, if he wins, Corbyn will definitely have the same parliamentary party.'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/labour-rebels-problem-jere
One thing that has been hard to find out, is exactly who Momentum are. According to a Guardian article in March its leadership consists of two groups, but how far those categories really apply to the thousands of people streaming into the Labour Party is difficult to know:
'Momentum is made up largely of two groups. There is the old guard of veteran leftwingers such as Lansman, steeped in years of Labour infighting — he campaigned for Tony Benn as deputy leader in 1981 — and returning Labour members who left over Iraq and other issues. And then there are younger members such as Schneider and Tarry who are keener on building a social movement than internal politics, inspired by similar movements in Europe and the US. Many of this younger intake came to politics through UK Uncut and the Occupy movements.'
'Schneider, from London, does not fit the stereotype of a hardened leftwinger. He was educated at Winchester and Oxford, studied theology, worked as a journalist covering Africa, volunteered to work on the Corbyn campaign and stayed. He was previously a member of the Liberal Democrats.'
At home with Momentum: the rise of 'Corbyn's shock troops'
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/08/momentum-corbyns-shock-troops-la |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:12 - Jul 24 with 2351 views | loftboy |
Its all irrelevant. As Lon as the snp continues to take the Scottish vote then the tories will win every election. |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:24 - Jul 24 with 2255 views | TacticalR |
'Guardian Media Group will this week reveal a higher than expected full-year operating loss of £69m as the owner of The Guardian newspaper battles to bring its finances under control.
GMG’s total pre-tax loss will hit £173m as the group belatedly writes down about £80m in the value of its stake in Ascential, the publicly quoted magazine and events company, and takes a £20m restructuring charge over severance payments.'
Guardian Media Group hit with record £173m loss
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f5be593a-51b5-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.html | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:29 - Jul 24 with 2253 views | MrSheen |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:21 - Jul 24 by TacticalR |
In the past The Guardian has always struck me as a nest of Keynesianism, and these days we are talking about very modest Keynesianism. Perhaps the antagonistic tone of some of its articles about Corbyn stem from this? Many years ago I used to read a lot of Chris Huhne's Keynesian stuff when he was economics editor of the Guardian. In 2010 he became Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change in the Liberal-Tory Coalition government, before ending up in prison in 2013.
The aristocratic Keynes certainly had little enthusiasm for socialism:
'I can be influenced by what seems to me to be justice and good sense; but the class war will find me on the side of the educated bourgeoisie.'
Am I a Liberal? (1925)
The Labour Party has rarely had any ideas of its own. Keynes, the theoretician of state intervention, was a Liberal as was William Beveridge, the architect of the welfare state. The welfare schemes of the Liberals (rebranded as socialism) were put into practice during and after the war - 'the welfare state is a warfare state'.
The real story of Corbyn is not so much Corbyn himself as the complete intellectual disintegration of the mainstream of the Labour Party. Corbyn may be uncharismatic but the candidates being fielded against him are empty vessels with absolutely nothing to say. The problem goes back to the abandonment of Keynesianism in the 1970s. In retrospect it's obvious that Keynesianism, far from being able to overcome the crises of capitalism is dependent on the health of capitalism. As capitalism stagnates there is little room for state schemes, although of course as a last resort banks and other businesses will be rescued to maintain capitalist stability (otherwise, as George Bush put it in 2008, 'this sucker could go down').
There also seems to be considerable confusion in the Corbyn camp. When Corbyn and John McDonnell first arrived in 2015 McDonnell said that the party would vote in favour of Conservative Chancellor George Osborne's proposed fiscal charter:
John McDonnell: Labour will match Osborne and live within our means
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/25/john-mcdonnell-labour-will-match
The only clear policy that Corbyn seems to have is scrapping Trident. All the rest seems to be vague talk about ethical values. I agree with Jonathan Cook that Corbyn 'exudes a Zen-like calm' although how to interpret this remains to be seen. Most of the anti-Corbyn stuff (anti-semitism, bullying) appears to be hysterical victim-culture stuff put out by vacuous Labour MPs.
In some ways the debate about Labour parallels the Brexit debate. There does not seem to be a way forward or a way back:
'Step back from the chaotic nightmare engulfing the Labour party and two points are strikingly clear: Jeremy Corbyn needs a new parliamentary party; and the parliamentary party needs a new leader. A third point arises from the previous two. The current impasse between the leader and his MPs cannot last until 2020, still the most probable year an election will be called. Yet after the leadership contest Labour MPs will probably have Corbyn as their leader and, if he wins, Corbyn will definitely have the same parliamentary party.'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/labour-rebels-problem-jere
One thing that has been hard to find out, is exactly who Momentum are. According to a Guardian article in March its leadership consists of two groups, but how far those categories really apply to the thousands of people streaming into the Labour Party is difficult to know:
'Momentum is made up largely of two groups. There is the old guard of veteran leftwingers such as Lansman, steeped in years of Labour infighting — he campaigned for Tony Benn as deputy leader in 1981 — and returning Labour members who left over Iraq and other issues. And then there are younger members such as Schneider and Tarry who are keener on building a social movement than internal politics, inspired by similar movements in Europe and the US. Many of this younger intake came to politics through UK Uncut and the Occupy movements.'
'Schneider, from London, does not fit the stereotype of a hardened leftwinger. He was educated at Winchester and Oxford, studied theology, worked as a journalist covering Africa, volunteered to work on the Corbyn campaign and stayed. He was previously a member of the Liberal Democrats.'
At home with Momentum: the rise of 'Corbyn's shock troops'
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/08/momentum-corbyns-shock-troops-la |
Winchester and Oxford - same path as Seumas Milne. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:51 - Jul 24 with 2239 views | LythamR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:12 - Jul 24 by loftboy |
Its all irrelevant. As Lon as the snp continues to take the Scottish vote then the tories will win every election. |
I honestly cant see labour getting in again with a majority, only as part of a coalition if we ever change to proportional representation or if something happens to expose the unsustainable debt mountain we are building as individuals and nations, which may not be for another 10 to 15 years but could possibly happen by 2020 |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:37 - Jul 25 with 2154 views | TacticalR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:29 - Jul 24 by MrSheen |
Winchester and Oxford - same path as Seumas Milne. |
Surely bringing in Wykehamists to work alongside Old Etonians is a sign that politics is broadening its base?
And should we really be cynical about such modern day missionaries? | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:55 - Jul 25 with 2096 views | MrSheen |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:37 - Jul 25 by TacticalR |
Surely bringing in Wykehamists to work alongside Old Etonians is a sign that politics is broadening its base?
And should we really be cynical about such modern day missionaries? |
It's not alongside though, it's head to head. Like the strange football they play along a wall where there hasn't been a goal since 1876. Or maybe that's what we'll be watching this season. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 15:10 - Jul 25 with 2035 views | TacticalR |
'In a way Labour are the only party reflecting the mood of the country, by loathing each other. Angela Eagle withdrew from the leadership race. There was nothing about her that suggested leadership — she looks like she’d shriek every time Putin entered a room and has the voice of a Collie locked in a hot car. Owen Smith was head of policy for Pfizer, but despite his best efforts there still aren't enough drugs in the world to make his election seem like a good idea.'
Frankie Boyle
https://www.facebook.com/FrankieBoyleFans/posts/1161536360554395 | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 16:06 - Jul 25 with 2010 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Frankie is comfortably my favourite political writer in the Guardian.
"Corbyn hasn't formed a strong opposition, say a parliamentary party who voted for renewing Trident, bombing Syria, and cutting benefits. Really what Labour MPs are selling is a sort of nihilism. They have grown up in a party where their core vote had no option but to vote for them, and where until recently members had little power. So they're going to go into a leadership election asking their members to, essentially, abandon hope. The only time most Labour MP’s are going to try and inspire the working class these days is if they need a new kitchen fitted for a short-notice dinner party.You have to wonder how they'd fare under the same media scrutiny as Corbyn, particularly after a week where the Syrian bombing they voted to get involved in killed 85 civilians and one of the rebel groups it was supposed to support beheaded a child. " |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 19:10 - Jul 25 with 1948 views | johncharles |
NOT in the Guardian today
"Senior figures within the Labour Party are calling on the Electoral Commission to investigate a controversial group set up to oust Jeremy Corbyn as party leader. Prominent critics have labelled Saving Labour as a shadowy and anonymous organisation whose source of funding is unknown.
Saving Labour has taken out prominent media advertisements against Corbyn. Jon Trickett, who is Labour's shadow Business Secretary, said that as the group is trying to influence who is the UK's Opposition Leader that it had a series of questions to answer about where it got the cash the from and who is behind it.
The pro Corbyn Momentum group has already been approached by the Electoral Commesion after Blairite MP Emma Reynolds called for it's finances to be investigated......the commission replied that in the absence of any creditable evidence ..... they would not take any action"
From yesterday's Sunday Herald. [Post edited 25 Jul 2016 21:12]
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 12:00 - Sep 24 with 1632 views | stevec |
Labour Leader still.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 13:06 - Sep 24 with 1586 views | TacticalR |
For a man who is unelectable he does have a rather strange habit of getting elected. | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 13:26 - Sep 24 with 1544 views | QPR_Jim |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 13:06 - Sep 24 by TacticalR |
For a man who is unelectable he does have a rather strange habit of getting elected. |
Problem is we need a strong opposition and he'll never win a general election, not with his policies. What we need is for the labour party to adopt conservative policies so we can have a strong opposition and a more democratic society, or at least that's what they seemed to be suggesting on question time this week. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 13:57 - Sep 24 with 1512 views | kensalriser |
It's extraordinary that Labour can't find a genuine contender to put up against Corbyn. Owen Smith came across the same as the others, like a whiney schoolteacher. Even the much reviled Ed Balls, who I saw on TV the other day, seemed much more credible in comparison. | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 14:29 - Sep 24 with 1473 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 13:26 - Sep 24 by QPR_Jim |
Problem is we need a strong opposition and he'll never win a general election, not with his policies. What we need is for the labour party to adopt conservative policies so we can have a strong opposition and a more democratic society, or at least that's what they seemed to be suggesting on question time this week. |
Nothing says "strong opposition" like adopting the policies of the ruling party.
Why are people so desperate for a one party state? [Post edited 24 Sep 2016 14:31]
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