| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? 08:39 - Jul 22 with 14635 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Meant to ask this question a few times but this article prompted me. It's a decent thought process without being brilliant from a journalist who is brave though not always logical, but I found it interesting and it's prompted me to finally ask you good people - what is it about Corbyn that scares the Guardian?
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-07-22/why-corbyn-so-terrifies-the-guardia
I don't read the paper as much as I used to but I follow it on facebook and there's a daily 'cut-and-paste'-type hate-Corbyn article that's almost Orwellian at this stage.
Is the Guardian no longer left-wing?
Is it personal?
Do they support an opponent in particular?
Is he dangerous? Or dangerously bad?
I'd really appreciate any insight.
Now, where's that music thread... [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 8:40]
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 20:11 - Jul 22 with 1283 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 19:37 - Jul 22 by QPR_John |
So to hurt those you despise that were handed everything you take a sledge hammer to crack a nut by denying Mr Joe Ordinary the right to help his kids [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 19:38]
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It's all about hurting "the enemy" regardless of whether it does any good or not.
There was a poll a while back and Labour supporters wanted to see higher taxes on the rich even if it didn't bring in any more money.
http://reason.com/blog/2014/02/06/british-labour-party-supporters-want |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 20:36 - Jul 22 with 1256 views | paulparker |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 19:04 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
The point about inherited wealth is that is destroys any hope of a level playing field.
It's the bit of right-wing thinking that never adds up. We're told to be hard-working individualists and despise hand outs, while being governed by people who were handed everything.
State school Tories crack me up. Henchmen and forelock tuggers. [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 19:05]
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So I take it you won't leave nothing to your kids then Danny ( if you have any ) |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 20:56 - Jul 22 with 1245 views | DannytheR |
Sorry, who are you saying I think is "the enemy?"
I'd imagine I want to see the same people get on in life as you do - talented and hard working ones.
But only one of us actively supports a party built on denying talented, hard working kids from one background the same chances as often much less talented or hard working kids from another. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:02 - Jul 22 with 1239 views | johncharles |
I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable. This is the mantra of the "don't rock the boat" Labour MP's, the one's that failed so badly in the last election. The sight of Thersa May hissing and spitting at PM question time made Corbyn look reasonable and sane. Who would you give the nuclear codes to ? |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:07 - Jul 22 with 1235 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 20:36 - Jul 22 by paulparker |
So I take it you won't leave nothing to your kids then Danny ( if you have any ) |
Yes mate, I've got two, and given I'm self employed with no proper pension it'll be interesting to see how much is left for them either way.
Again, it's funny. I knew as soon as I posted that exactly the response I'd get. You automatically turn around and have a pop at me, who like you went to state school, worked hard, etc etc, for... what? Being a hypocrite? Being a 'champagne socialist?' And meanwhile neither us, or our kids, will have had a fraction of the chances given to the often pretty dim and idle children of the moneyed classes in this country.
But the people who actively depend on limiting you and your kids' chances in life - you're not just unfussed by - you actively vote for them. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:45 - Jul 22 with 1191 views | paulparker |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:07 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
Yes mate, I've got two, and given I'm self employed with no proper pension it'll be interesting to see how much is left for them either way.
Again, it's funny. I knew as soon as I posted that exactly the response I'd get. You automatically turn around and have a pop at me, who like you went to state school, worked hard, etc etc, for... what? Being a hypocrite? Being a 'champagne socialist?' And meanwhile neither us, or our kids, will have had a fraction of the chances given to the often pretty dim and idle children of the moneyed classes in this country.
But the people who actively depend on limiting you and your kids' chances in life - you're not just unfussed by - you actively vote for them. |
A/ I wasn't having a pop I was just asking a question
B/ I agree about the nice but dim Elite who get everything on a plate , but what are you gonna do
Those sorts of people have been around for centuries and will when me and you are pushing up the daisies ?
I'd rather have the life I have now and the people I know and the experiences I've had
No money in the world can replace that
C/ I'm lucky I have a decent pension and two properties but I've worked hard for it and if I can give my step daughter a leg up in life why not, no one else in this world will and that's a job of a father figure is it not ?
D/ I don't vote Tory and never have done | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:49 - Jul 22 with 1185 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 20:56 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
Sorry, who are you saying I think is "the enemy?"
I'd imagine I want to see the same people get on in life as you do - talented and hard working ones.
But only one of us actively supports a party built on denying talented, hard working kids from one background the same chances as often much less talented or hard working kids from another. |
Yep.
Getting rid of grammar schools and tripling house prices, the two biggest obstacles to social mobility. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:02 - Jul 22 with 1160 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:49 - Jul 22 by Clive_Anderson |
Yep.
Getting rid of grammar schools and tripling house prices, the two biggest obstacles to social mobility. |
The biggest obstacle to social mobility in British education (and maybe Britain in general) is private schools. It always was.
Thatcher closed the grammar schools. She didn't send Mark and Carol comprehensive though, did she? | | | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:11 - Jul 22 with 1145 views | LazyFan |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:51 - Jul 22 by NW5Hoop |
I don't see how that graphic proves the Guardian hates Corbyn, but never mind.
The Guardian is not a "Labour paper". It is a left-liberal paper, born from the same non conformist traditions as the Labour party. But at all points in its history emphasised that it is independent, and beholden to no one. That means it has supported different parties at different times, depending on manifestos, the state of politics at the time, and so on.
Its support for the Lib Dems in 2010, in retrospect a terrible error, was not out of a desire to move right, but because of dismay at the colossal failures of the last years of the Labour government. I never knew it backed the Tories in 1955, though. |
HI,
I am sorry you cannot be a Left liberal paper as that means you still want capitalism. The Left do not want capitalism/moneyism they want socialism.
Interesting that you say 2010 was a terrible error as this one I could understand from a Guardian point of view. Once ConDem had been seen I am not sure going for the Liberals again even works in 2015 (your other link is for May 1st and not the day before the election when they changed tack went with the Liberals again I believe). |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:12 - Jul 22 with 1145 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 21:45 - Jul 22 by paulparker |
A/ I wasn't having a pop I was just asking a question
B/ I agree about the nice but dim Elite who get everything on a plate , but what are you gonna do
Those sorts of people have been around for centuries and will when me and you are pushing up the daisies ?
I'd rather have the life I have now and the people I know and the experiences I've had
No money in the world can replace that
C/ I'm lucky I have a decent pension and two properties but I've worked hard for it and if I can give my step daughter a leg up in life why not, no one else in this world will and that's a job of a father figure is it not ?
D/ I don't vote Tory and never have done |
"B/ I agree about the nice but dim Elite who get everything on a plate , but what are you gonna do"
Fair enough PP but honestly, this is the part that does my head in. So one elite - European bureaucrats - can be got rid of and power taken back and all the rest of it... but the other elite, the British upper classes, who have much much more influence over the shape of the country... then people shrug and say Well, that's just how it is.
Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
Anyway, it's Friday night. I'm going to have another beer. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:17 - Jul 22 with 1131 views | martincook |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:12 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
"B/ I agree about the nice but dim Elite who get everything on a plate , but what are you gonna do"
Fair enough PP but honestly, this is the part that does my head in. So one elite - European bureaucrats - can be got rid of and power taken back and all the rest of it... but the other elite, the British upper classes, who have much much more influence over the shape of the country... then people shrug and say Well, that's just how it is.
Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
Anyway, it's Friday night. I'm going to have another beer. |
Come on everyone. Danny's right. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:20 - Jul 22 with 1127 views | LazyFan |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 16:14 - Jul 22 by Northernr |
Like it or not Corbyn appears to be condemning us to many years of stranglehold, almost unopposed Tory rule with the only significant opposition coming from the SNP who obviously don't give two shts about those of us south of the border. Whether you're red or blue right or left its not helpful to have one party completely free to do as it pleases, make as many mistakes as it likes etc and still be in government. |
Hi,
No it is the splitters who are condemning us to Tory rule. I do not call the Blairites a strong opposition when they vote with the government anyway. Corbyn is the one who fights them all the way whether he is leader or not, he never gives up. Never ties and is about to give the right a hard kicking.
So, far he is doing very well. Leadership won, London Mayor won, bi-election won with increased majority, 300k members added, Blairite Benn ruthlessly sacked, 2 Etonians gone, Austerity gone.
He did the lose the Trident debate, but that is what happens when you have weak MP's like Eagle and Smith. Best to clear em out. Oh wait he is about to do that too. And if anyone says "but he won those despite himself", then what they are actually saying is "it does not matter if he's leader". You can't have it both ways!
If Labour splits it won't be be because of the membership supporting Corbyn, it will be because the Labour party is infested by Tory MP's who were too weak to join the Tory party properly and wanted a paid for free ride from the Unions.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:24 - Jul 22 with 1118 views | martincook |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:20 - Jul 22 by LazyFan |
Hi,
No it is the splitters who are condemning us to Tory rule. I do not call the Blairites a strong opposition when they vote with the government anyway. Corbyn is the one who fights them all the way whether he is leader or not, he never gives up. Never ties and is about to give the right a hard kicking.
So, far he is doing very well. Leadership won, London Mayor won, bi-election won with increased majority, 300k members added, Blairite Benn ruthlessly sacked, 2 Etonians gone, Austerity gone.
He did the lose the Trident debate, but that is what happens when you have weak MP's like Eagle and Smith. Best to clear em out. Oh wait he is about to do that too. And if anyone says "but he won those despite himself", then what they are actually saying is "it does not matter if he's leader". You can't have it both ways!
If Labour splits it won't be be because of the membership supporting Corbyn, it will be because the Labour party is infested by Tory MP's who were too weak to join the Tory party properly and wanted a paid for free ride from the Unions.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Come on guys! Lazy's right too! | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:30 - Jul 22 with 1109 views | Northernr |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:20 - Jul 22 by LazyFan |
Hi,
No it is the splitters who are condemning us to Tory rule. I do not call the Blairites a strong opposition when they vote with the government anyway. Corbyn is the one who fights them all the way whether he is leader or not, he never gives up. Never ties and is about to give the right a hard kicking.
So, far he is doing very well. Leadership won, London Mayor won, bi-election won with increased majority, 300k members added, Blairite Benn ruthlessly sacked, 2 Etonians gone, Austerity gone.
He did the lose the Trident debate, but that is what happens when you have weak MP's like Eagle and Smith. Best to clear em out. Oh wait he is about to do that too. And if anyone says "but he won those despite himself", then what they are actually saying is "it does not matter if he's leader". You can't have it both ways!
If Labour splits it won't be be because of the membership supporting Corbyn, it will be because the Labour party is infested by Tory MP's who were too weak to join the Tory party properly and wanted a paid for free ride from the Unions.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
No point in arguing, we'll look back in on this after the next general election. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:39 - Jul 22 with 1100 views | TacticalR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:12 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
"B/ I agree about the nice but dim Elite who get everything on a plate , but what are you gonna do"
Fair enough PP but honestly, this is the part that does my head in. So one elite - European bureaucrats - can be got rid of and power taken back and all the rest of it... but the other elite, the British upper classes, who have much much more influence over the shape of the country... then people shrug and say Well, that's just how it is.
Makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
Anyway, it's Friday night. I'm going to have another beer. |
Actually, it makes perfect sense if you are a nationalist. The nationalists say that you have more in common with the ruling elite of your own country than you do with workers (or elites) of other countries.
If you are an internationalist then you recognise that you have more in common with the workers of other countries than you do with your own ruling elite. |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:49 - Jul 22 with 1076 views | essextaxiboy |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 19:04 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
The point about inherited wealth is that is destroys any hope of a level playing field.
It's the bit of right-wing thinking that never adds up. We're told to be hard-working individualists and despise hand outs, while being governed by people who were handed everything.
State school Tories crack me up. Henchmen and forelock tuggers. [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 19:05]
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So do you not intend to leave your children anything when you die ? |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:53 - Jul 22 with 1068 views | martincook |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:30 - Jul 22 by Northernr |
No point in arguing, we'll look back in on this after the next general election. |
C'mon Norf. "Long way to go yet, Hobbitses". But I do take your point about not having one Party free to do as it pleases. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 23:46 - Jul 22 with 1005 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:49 - Jul 22 by essextaxiboy |
So do you not intend to leave your children anything when you die ? |
I'd rather try to help them become smart, hard-working people somewhere with a decent future while I'm still alive. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 23:49 - Jul 22 with 1000 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:02 - Jul 22 by DannytheR |
The biggest obstacle to social mobility in British education (and maybe Britain in general) is private schools. It always was.
Thatcher closed the grammar schools. She didn't send Mark and Carol comprehensive though, did she? |
I honestly don't understand what is wrong with public schools. Is it because they get a better standard of education?
I would have thought the answer is to improve the normal standard of schools, rather than stop people going to the few decents schools there are. Just the usual politics of envy.
House prices are a far bigger problem. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 23:50 - Jul 22 with 999 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:39 - Jul 22 by TacticalR |
Actually, it makes perfect sense if you are a nationalist. The nationalists say that you have more in common with the ruling elite of your own country than you do with workers (or elites) of other countries.
If you are an internationalist then you recognise that you have more in common with the workers of other countries than you do with your own ruling elite. |
Very true. Particularly in a country like Britain, where the sense of national identity is completely tied up with the royal family and knowing one's place. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 00:25 - Jul 23 with 978 views | Tearsofrage |
"He has the intellectual capacity of Michael Foot but with far greater appeal, no duffel coat and the ability to challenge and seek to hold to account all, like the Banks, that the Tories have failed too."
Whilst I have every faith that the blessed Jeremy is a bright, decent man who has the general well-being of the nation at heart, he has the conviction of Mongo from "Blazing Saddles" of being a mere pawn in the game of life. Irrespective of how likeable or how left wing his credentials are, Jezza is merely a throwback to the students union politics of the 1970s. His acolytes' attempts to smear anyone who challenges his right to lead a major social-democratic party as "Blairites or reactionaries is reminiscent of South American dictatorships or what we are witnessing in Turkey with Erdogan. Entryism has always been an issue with Labour and once Milliband abnegated responsibility for losing the last election the inevitable flood of those who have a "different" agenda joined for £3.00. The notion of a vast national membership with a final electoral triumph is tragically naive. All it does is create a hateful vanguard whose ruthlessness is embarrassing. Whilst Corbyn remains, the Tories, who deserve to have their tummies badly tickled in the wake of a shameful internal chaos over Europe, have been allowed to install another right wing nutter AND GET AWAY WITH IT! Corbyn will probably win the vote and that will enable the nastiest and most reactionary Tory administration to wind up the NHS, denigrate state education and, on the back of a wave of Xenophobia, to institutionalize anti-European feeling. In the wake of the Brexit fiasco, how can anyone have faith in Corbyn's ability to lead a mass political movement? Workers' rights,the need for better state provision of housing, improved health care, free education for all, civil rights are all under threat from a very dodgy administration. I see no way Jeremy and his sugar-puff bears can effectively defend the most needy and the most deserving in 2016 Britain. Labour cannot continue in the hands of aparatchiks like McDonald and Corbyn. Labour, and the nation as a whole, deserves leadership. Corbyn aint got it! |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 00:47 - Jul 23 with 961 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 23:49 - Jul 22 by Clive_Anderson |
I honestly don't understand what is wrong with public schools. Is it because they get a better standard of education?
I would have thought the answer is to improve the normal standard of schools, rather than stop people going to the few decents schools there are. Just the usual politics of envy.
House prices are a far bigger problem. |
I don't think it's the "politics of envy." Isn't that just one of those slightly empty, play-the-man-not-the-ball phrases people throw around in the absence of a proper argument?
You can look at it as a question of fairness, or just survival in a globalised world. These days any country of our size really needs its brightest, most talented people to get into positions where they can fulfil their potential. That doesn't happen here nearly as much as it should, and one of the biggest reasons is private education, which gives kids who receive it vital soft skills and a route through life that state schools simply can't.
It's not about GCSE results, it's about the kind of rounded education, confidence and connections that then helps people get into and prosper at the best universities, and, even more importantly, the internships and unpaid placements that still even now work on a back door, who you know basis.
I think it's poisonous for 90% of a country's kids to be told from the word go that they're second class citizens, and it's also bad for the country when often fairly mediocre people whose parents happened to be rich enough to get them into the best schools end up running the country. It's a brutally competitive world out there, and aristocracies are just inefficient.
State schools are now very good at teaching to the test and getting their kids solid GCSE results. That's why you will see headlines in papers like the Telegraph and Mail pointing out research that says a private education will still mean you end up earning X more money by the time you get into your 30s and 40s. They don't run those stories because they're outraged at the inequality - they do it to reassure well-to-do parents that there is still a point in shelling out huge amounts on school fees. And that message is re-affirmed by hiring the best teachers, and providing hugely well resourced facilities for them to teach in.
But we're so far apart on this, I don't think we're going to achieve much by discussing it apart from wasting yet more of each other's time. Accusing people of being envious because you don't agree with their politics is very over-dramatic language, and it makes the whole thing slightly pointless. As with the Brexit debate, if there is emotional resentment in the air here, it's mostly aimed from your side at a middle class who are seen as having got a bit above themselves by wanting more than to work for public schoolboys their whole lives.
If you're interested in social mobility, I recommend looking up the work done by the Sutton Trust. They do a lot of research into it, and it's often fascinating if a bit depressing. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 00:58 - Jul 23 with 956 views | NW5Hoop |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 17:04 - Jul 22 by martincook |
It seems to me the article that Brian linked to in his original post answers the question perfectly. I don't know anything about the bloke who wrote it, Jonathan Cook - all I can go on is his reasoning.
All the other contributions so far are interesting. NW5Hoop is itk and articulate in the way his profession requires, so he's always going to be worth reading. But does refraction inside the Guardian "bubble" improve his perception of events outside or obscure them? His assertion that "Jonathan Cook… is a crazed conspiracy theorist who hates the Guardian" didn't inspire confidence in his objectivity. Much as I accept and agree with most of his contribution here, I think he may be missing several points by reminding us about the good and the bad in Blair's governments.
"The shocking failures cast a long shadow over the Blair government, notably Iraq."
Yes, we all agree.
"But people tend to forget massive investment in health and education, large numbers of people lifted out of poverty through tax credits, the expansion of SureStart, and so on."
This sounds like the New Labour manifesto my Dad subjects me to whenever he gets upset about the News (he's an R and he's 91, so perhaps I'll come round in the end). The fact is that these investments in health were nevertheless inadequate and in education, they were frequently misplaced. Huge numbers of people remain in poverty, partly as a result of Blair's failure to introduce radical reform. Both his and Peter Mandelson's "intense relaxation" about the virtue of extreme wealth paved the way for Cameron's assault both on the poor and on the not so poor. If NW5Hoop thinks this is OK (which I doubt) fair enough, that's his view. If he doesn't, why would he have a problem with Jeremy Corbyn? I think Cliff and Brightonhoop are very clear about why no-one should.
The excellent Konk joined Labour to vote for Corbyn but now he's not so happy. Stick with it, I say. You wanted to protest at the way Labour had gone. Now, if you don't vote for him again you'll be asking Labour to go back to what you were protesting about in the first place. If he's not re-elected, all those old careerist farts will be back with a vengeance. If he and his supporters don't stand for what you want, I can understand you changing your mind but I don't think anyone should take a view based on the vitriolic frenzy and bias of the media, or of the aggressive desperation that characterises their opponents in the PLP. I've heard it suggested that Corbyn and Momentum are "hard left". Nothing could be further from the truth. In the overall history of the Labour movement, they come out just to the left of centre. They are, however, principled, reasonable and determined. I don't see anything wrong with that. |
Jonathan Cook is someone who worked for the Guardian, then was dispensed with. If you look through his blog, you will find scores of posts about the evils of the Guardian and how it is responsible for the injustices of the world.
Whenever you come across someone who used to work for the nationals, but who now runs their own blog and contributes to fringe publications, ask yourself why that happened to them. It is NEVER because their previous employer was afraid of their fearless truthtelling. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 01:01 - Jul 23 with 954 views | NW5Hoop |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 22:11 - Jul 22 by LazyFan |
HI,
I am sorry you cannot be a Left liberal paper as that means you still want capitalism. The Left do not want capitalism/moneyism they want socialism.
Interesting that you say 2010 was a terrible error as this one I could understand from a Guardian point of view. Once ConDem had been seen I am not sure going for the Liberals again even works in 2015 (your other link is for May 1st and not the day before the election when they changed tack went with the Liberals again I believe). |
What other link? I didn't post any link.
And I didn't say the Guardian was tied to socialism. So you telling me it isn't doesn't prove anything. It is a broadly social democratic newspaper, which places it left of centre ie left-liberal. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 02:22 - Jul 23 with 938 views | derbyhoop |
It's unfortunate that Labour is tearing itself apart when a strong, credible opposition is needed.
But, if Corbyn is the right leader, I'm a Dutchman. Sure, he can command the votes of 300k party members but if he can't win the votes of 12m electors, he's leading a glorified protest group. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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