| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? 08:39 - Jul 22 with 14638 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Meant to ask this question a few times but this article prompted me. It's a decent thought process without being brilliant from a journalist who is brave though not always logical, but I found it interesting and it's prompted me to finally ask you good people - what is it about Corbyn that scares the Guardian?
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016-07-22/why-corbyn-so-terrifies-the-guardia
I don't read the paper as much as I used to but I follow it on facebook and there's a daily 'cut-and-paste'-type hate-Corbyn article that's almost Orwellian at this stage.
Is the Guardian no longer left-wing?
Is it personal?
Do they support an opponent in particular?
Is he dangerous? Or dangerously bad?
I'd really appreciate any insight.
Now, where's that music thread... [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 8:40]
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 08:43 - Jul 22 with 5168 views | hoopdog |
Because the media think they can fool people into believing champagne socialism is an alternative to the tories [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 8:44]
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:30 - Jul 22 with 5067 views | NW5Hoop |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 08:43 - Jul 22 by hoopdog |
Because the media think they can fool people into believing champagne socialism is an alternative to the tories [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 8:44]
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The Guardian doesn't hate Corbyn. I work there. Lots of people here support Corbyn. It has columnists taking both sides. In terms of news reporting, when a good news Corbyn story happens, it gets reported, it just doesn't happen very often. One of the editor's best friends is his communications head.
Jonathan Cook, on the other hand, is a crazed conspiracy theorist who hates the Guardian. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:50 - Jul 22 with 5031 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:30 - Jul 22 by NW5Hoop |
The Guardian doesn't hate Corbyn. I work there. Lots of people here support Corbyn. It has columnists taking both sides. In terms of news reporting, when a good news Corbyn story happens, it gets reported, it just doesn't happen very often. One of the editor's best friends is his communications head.
Jonathan Cook, on the other hand, is a crazed conspiracy theorist who hates the Guardian. |
I share your reservations about Cook, NW5. Didn't know you worked there, or maybe I'd just forgotten. Apologies.
You're right that the Guardian does publish pro-Corbyn pieces, of course. I do think the balance (particularly on opinion pieces) is anti-Corbyn, though, and overwhelmingly so. | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:55 - Jul 22 with 5024 views | stevec |
''...an emotional and intellectual inertia in the scientific community''. Don't you just love the way lefties talk and analyse, practically piss meself every time.
Actually, the article sort of gets it right but, as usual, in the wrong way.
My old Dad was a union man, a young Communist, died a Tory. As he used to say, the only thing any of them cared about was power, he saw it from within. Today's Labour party is representative of those times, they've reached the pinnacle, they love it, they don't want to lose it. Corbyn is losing it. Naturally, they don't like it, so won't like him.
It's telling that in a period where the people have spoken, real democracy, a kick in the teeth to the elite, that Labour are at their most angriest. Speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know about the Guardian. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:07 - Jul 22 with 4989 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:55 - Jul 22 by stevec |
''...an emotional and intellectual inertia in the scientific community''. Don't you just love the way lefties talk and analyse, practically piss meself every time.
Actually, the article sort of gets it right but, as usual, in the wrong way.
My old Dad was a union man, a young Communist, died a Tory. As he used to say, the only thing any of them cared about was power, he saw it from within. Today's Labour party is representative of those times, they've reached the pinnacle, they love it, they don't want to lose it. Corbyn is losing it. Naturally, they don't like it, so won't like him.
It's telling that in a period where the people have spoken, real democracy, a kick in the teeth to the elite, that Labour are at their most angriest. Speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know about the Guardian. |
Or maybe they know Corbyn is completely unelectable. Great having a man of principle at the helm but not great if the vast bulk of the voting population don't share those principles. Maybe the Guardian worries that Corbyn's 'leadership' guarantees a Tory majority government? And maybe they are spot on.... |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:16 - Jul 22 with 4971 views | hoof_hearted |
Because Corbyn is a dogmatic dinosaur. He's more "left wing" than any other leader of the Labour party who has ever been elected to power. Harold Wilson was far nearer the centre than Tony Benn (the equivalent to Corbyn in his day) and that was 1974!
The Labour party has, for the last 70 odd years, slowly forced the Tories to fight for the same things as the early Labour party fought for to the point where there is little between them. Instead of being proud of that achievement they now seem hell bent on destroying the legacy and allowing the Tories to drift to the right and keep power for as long as if they want.
Corbyn's destiny seems to be to take the Labour party into the fringes as a socialist worker type party. His gift to the nation might be that there is a new centre left party that can shake off all the old dogma and politics of envy diatribe.
I didn't realise I felt so strongly about him. Very therapeutic. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:21 - Jul 22 with 4953 views | robith |
If you read A Very British Coup, a fictional account of a left wing leader being elected PM and how the establishment would undermine him, it documents how the press react to each event. The Guardian's reaction throughout the book is always to say that even though the PM is right, now is not the time.
The Guardian is the classic moderate voice - keen to point out the ills of society, but god forbid we actually do something to remedy it |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:30 - Jul 22 with 4905 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:55 - Jul 22 by stevec |
''...an emotional and intellectual inertia in the scientific community''. Don't you just love the way lefties talk and analyse, practically piss meself every time.
Actually, the article sort of gets it right but, as usual, in the wrong way.
My old Dad was a union man, a young Communist, died a Tory. As he used to say, the only thing any of them cared about was power, he saw it from within. Today's Labour party is representative of those times, they've reached the pinnacle, they love it, they don't want to lose it. Corbyn is losing it. Naturally, they don't like it, so won't like him.
It's telling that in a period where the people have spoken, real democracy, a kick in the teeth to the elite, that Labour are at their most angriest. Speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know about the Guardian. |
I love the line the right keeps coming out with about 'democracy'. As if democracy is this simple, black and white concept and there are no grey areas at all. Was it 'democracy' when UKIP got over 3m votes and only got one seat? Is it 'democracy' that the MPs we elected are overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in Europe? Is it 'democracy' that no one has voted for our current PM? The answer to all those questions is 'yes', which proves that just saying something is democratic is not always a good thing! Referendums are dangerous things - it's frightening what you could convince 51% of people to vote for in a 'yes' or 'no' situation. But, hey, that's 'democracy' so it's ok.
It's very common for people to get more right wing as they get older.
But agree, Guardian isn't anti-Corbyn at all. It has balanced views on both sides, as it should. But it is absolutely right to publish opinion against him because he doesn't stand a cat in hell's chance of winning an election. and those of us on the left have to decide: do we want a Tory government for 10 more years or more, where we keep all our principles? Or do we try and actually win an election? You can't help people if you're not in power, as David Schneider has been saying on Twitter.
As for the 'kick in the teeth to the elite' - I still have no idea what that is about. The 'elite' are now so many different groups it's hard to keep track. The out campaign was full of the 'elite'. |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:33 - Jul 22 with 4902 views | Gloucs_R |
Do any of you really believe in the whole socialist thing? If so, what do you think would be a fair tax on earnings? |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:45 - Jul 22 with 4883 views | 1BobbyHazell |
I agree with you Brian about the Guardian Anti-Corbyn slant, in the run up to his election it became almost comical. NW5 may claim that there were more negative stories (although as he well knows as a journalist it's all about how you frame a story) to print but the real gauge was the CIF and Opinion Pieces. These were not stories, just opinions, and the anti Corbyn ones were given a blatant numerical advantage, with at times some ludicrous slurs and allusions.
It's a subject with many angles and offshoots but the bottom line is there is clearly a strong element of one party state about our current politics and democracy. The transition from Major to Blair to Brown to Cameron and now May is relatively seamless in the key policy areas. This is reflected by Northolts comment that Corbyn is 'unelectable' because he represents some old school labour views that have been very carefully dismissed, dismantled and disappeared from mainstream politics. They are no longer allowed or 'credible' as everyone loves to parrot.
And people still wonder why large swathes of the country feel unheard.
As someone on here pointed out at the time, prior to the Labour leadership vote Tony Blair critisised Corbyn more in two weeks than he had done Cameron in his FIVE YEARS of being PM. One party state.
So the Guardian, being an establishment institution, is reflecting the establishment's general encouragement of a narrowing of what is and isn't allowed in terms of thought, ideology and possibility.
You can either have one neoliberal with a blue rosette or another (basically) neoiberal with a red rosette.
Corbyn isn't remotely perfect but the very fact that he holds a few ideals and views that put people and communities before institutions and corporations means that he has to be shooed away ASAP.
Good luck to us all.
ps when I say 'The Guardian' I appreciate that it is a many headed beast with a variety of views and it does publish some good work done by real journalists but for the sake of this discussion I'm describing the central core of editorial choices and leanings. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:51 - Jul 22 with 4857 views | Antti_Heinola |
Good post Bobby.
I think a major issue is that many people feel unheard now and it comes down to the first past the post system - something almost every other company has abandoned. PR would allow many more voices to be effectively heard. And in that scenario, Corbyn would be far more viable as leader of the party. The problem with Corbyn is that he has not penetrated the traditional Labour heartlands, who I think see him as Liberal London Elite. | |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:52 - Jul 22 with 4858 views | LazyFan |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:30 - Jul 22 by NW5Hoop |
The Guardian doesn't hate Corbyn. I work there. Lots of people here support Corbyn. It has columnists taking both sides. In terms of news reporting, when a good news Corbyn story happens, it gets reported, it just doesn't happen very often. One of the editor's best friends is his communications head.
Jonathan Cook, on the other hand, is a crazed conspiracy theorist who hates the Guardian. |
Hi,
I am afraid they do hate him. And not because he will lose any elections, as they do not like Labour at all and have not for some time. For the past 3 elections that have not endorsed Labour fully and for the past two not at all.
This image from the Guardian itself proves it:
While the image does not show the 2015 result, I have seen it before on the Guardians website, I just could not find it again. But it shows them supporting the Liberals again. As you work there please feel free to supply the latest image so, all of us can see how the Guardian is no longer a Labour supporting paper.
So, when Labour needed them most the Guardian was not there for them. And this is way before Corbyn obtained the Leadership.
Once you see the evidence from the Guardian itself, you can clearly see that it is no longer a paper of the Left. In fact if you take the 2015 election into account the majority of the Election support over time has been against Labour, not for it.
The only paper that consistently supports Labour is the Mirror. The rest all support Big Business in one form or another. Thus for a Left wing movement to make any gains in our so called democratic society, it has to take on almost the entire might of the establishment and its propaganda machine to make any in roads. Not easy especially when the Guardian pretends to be with you and in the end at the crunch time is against you.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:53 - Jul 22 with 4853 views | Konk |
Agree with the above, but on balance, I suspect the general thought process is that there's no chance of Labour winning a GE with him at the helm. And, if so, I think they're right. No chance of him appealing to people in the key marginal constituencies. If we had PR, then I don't think Corbyn's leadership would be so detrimental to the party's GE prospects.
I voted for Corbyn as leader because none of the alternatives inspired and I was hoping Labour would shift to the left, Corbyn would lead for a period, and someone more electable/charismatic would then emerge as Leader in the run up to the next GE, with the PLP having understood there was an appetite for a more socially progressive agenda. Hasn't quite worked out that way to date.
Seamus Milne - often wound me up when he wrote in the Guardian - always struck me as a bit sixth form politics, so my heart sunk when he popped up as Comms chief or whatever his role is. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:08 - Jul 22 with 4802 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:33 - Jul 22 by Gloucs_R |
Do any of you really believe in the whole socialist thing? If so, what do you think would be a fair tax on earnings? |
Enough to properly fund the things a decent society should freely provide to all, I'd have thought. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:10 - Jul 22 with 4792 views | MrSheen |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:30 - Jul 22 by NW5Hoop |
The Guardian doesn't hate Corbyn. I work there. Lots of people here support Corbyn. It has columnists taking both sides. In terms of news reporting, when a good news Corbyn story happens, it gets reported, it just doesn't happen very often. One of the editor's best friends is his communications head.
Jonathan Cook, on the other hand, is a crazed conspiracy theorist who hates the Guardian. |
Dare you express a view on Seumas Milne, NW5? |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:14 - Jul 22 with 4778 views | hoopdog |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:07 - Jul 22 by Northolt_Rs |
Or maybe they know Corbyn is completely unelectable. Great having a man of principle at the helm but not great if the vast bulk of the voting population don't share those principles. Maybe the Guardian worries that Corbyn's 'leadership' guarantees a Tory majority government? And maybe they are spot on.... |
Yep you're quite right he is unelectable but so are the rest of the labour party that are in it for a cushy ride , I certainly don't care for T May but she won't be out of place on the world stage on the other hand A Eagle do me favour !
Yes Corbyn is unelectable but at least recognise he is a man of conviction there is a dire need of a good clear out of labour that needs to start now | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:16 - Jul 22 with 4769 views | DaiHo0p |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:33 - Jul 22 by Gloucs_R |
Do any of you really believe in the whole socialist thing? If so, what do you think would be a fair tax on earnings? |
100% across the board. State then pays for everything. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:22 - Jul 22 with 4732 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:07 - Jul 22 by Northolt_Rs |
Or maybe they know Corbyn is completely unelectable. Great having a man of principle at the helm but not great if the vast bulk of the voting population don't share those principles. Maybe the Guardian worries that Corbyn's 'leadership' guarantees a Tory majority government? And maybe they are spot on.... |
In a nutshell!
Whether we like it or not and whether it should be relevant or not, the fact is he comes over poorly and he does not exude the image of a leader or potential statesman for this country.
I would worry about him being sent into bat for us, and we have some big negotiations to come over the next ten years or so. Aside of looking a scruffy fecker, the way May ran rings around him in her first PMQ shows that he is just woeful when it comes to being able to think on his feet.
Not that the prat that they have put up to run against him inspires either. Just a Blairite and lobbying scumbag.
Corbyn may well have good ideas, but this sudden surge of members shouldn't be ruled out as wolves in sheep's clothing. However, for me, the worry is that whatever the outcome, the Labour party could split and if they do and we have no effective opposition, then we're all going to lose in the end.
It is a shame. Apparently, he's not a bad egg at all. One of his last remaining MP supporters is a former colleague of mine and says that he's a decent man. But his PR is also awful and as much as he might not like it, if he stays in power, he has to address this.
Who'd have thunk it; the Labour party has a problem with a socialist leader!! |  |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:31 - Jul 22 with 4714 views | stevec |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:30 - Jul 22 by Antti_Heinola |
I love the line the right keeps coming out with about 'democracy'. As if democracy is this simple, black and white concept and there are no grey areas at all. Was it 'democracy' when UKIP got over 3m votes and only got one seat? Is it 'democracy' that the MPs we elected are overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in Europe? Is it 'democracy' that no one has voted for our current PM? The answer to all those questions is 'yes', which proves that just saying something is democratic is not always a good thing! Referendums are dangerous things - it's frightening what you could convince 51% of people to vote for in a 'yes' or 'no' situation. But, hey, that's 'democracy' so it's ok.
It's very common for people to get more right wing as they get older.
But agree, Guardian isn't anti-Corbyn at all. It has balanced views on both sides, as it should. But it is absolutely right to publish opinion against him because he doesn't stand a cat in hell's chance of winning an election. and those of us on the left have to decide: do we want a Tory government for 10 more years or more, where we keep all our principles? Or do we try and actually win an election? You can't help people if you're not in power, as David Schneider has been saying on Twitter.
As for the 'kick in the teeth to the elite' - I still have no idea what that is about. The 'elite' are now so many different groups it's hard to keep track. The out campaign was full of the 'elite'. |
''it's frightening what you could convince 51% of people to vote for in a 'yes' or 'no' situation. But, hey, that's 'democracy' so it's ok''
I love this idea that us 52% leavers (don't want to wind you up but round it properly) were all too stupid to understand what we were voting about whilst the other 48% based their vote on the full spectrum of personal and collective intellect.
Us thicko's must be a proper pain in the arse to the intelligentsia. Riff raff. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:35 - Jul 22 with 4703 views | californiahoop |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:22 - Jul 22 by PlanetHonneywood |
In a nutshell!
Whether we like it or not and whether it should be relevant or not, the fact is he comes over poorly and he does not exude the image of a leader or potential statesman for this country.
I would worry about him being sent into bat for us, and we have some big negotiations to come over the next ten years or so. Aside of looking a scruffy fecker, the way May ran rings around him in her first PMQ shows that he is just woeful when it comes to being able to think on his feet.
Not that the prat that they have put up to run against him inspires either. Just a Blairite and lobbying scumbag.
Corbyn may well have good ideas, but this sudden surge of members shouldn't be ruled out as wolves in sheep's clothing. However, for me, the worry is that whatever the outcome, the Labour party could split and if they do and we have no effective opposition, then we're all going to lose in the end.
It is a shame. Apparently, he's not a bad egg at all. One of his last remaining MP supporters is a former colleague of mine and says that he's a decent man. But his PR is also awful and as much as he might not like it, if he stays in power, he has to address this.
Who'd have thunk it; the Labour party has a problem with a socialist leader!! |
I read this earlier, great piece, unfortunately the brain washing is complete and may take decades to readdress, you can heal a broken arm but a broken mind???? | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:39 - Jul 22 with 4693 views | Konk |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:16 - Jul 22 by DaiHo0p |
100% across the board. State then pays for everything. |
As I've got older, I've realised that some people are pretty lazy and unproductive (e.g. me), whilst others are highly skilled, work their ars es off, take on a lot of responsibility and help their companies grow, create new jobs and boost tax revenue (my wife). It's only right that my wife earns significantly more than me.
Personally, I'd be happy paying another 5% tax. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:42 - Jul 22 with 4680 views | DannytheR |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:31 - Jul 22 by stevec |
''it's frightening what you could convince 51% of people to vote for in a 'yes' or 'no' situation. But, hey, that's 'democracy' so it's ok''
I love this idea that us 52% leavers (don't want to wind you up but round it properly) were all too stupid to understand what we were voting about whilst the other 48% based their vote on the full spectrum of personal and collective intellect.
Us thicko's must be a proper pain in the arse to the intelligentsia. Riff raff. |
You don't need the apostrophe on thickos, Steve. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:47 - Jul 22 with 4658 views | rsonist |
You wrongly presume the Graun still has an ethos greater than clickbait. |  | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:51 - Jul 22 with 4651 views | NW5Hoop |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 10:52 - Jul 22 by LazyFan |
Hi,
I am afraid they do hate him. And not because he will lose any elections, as they do not like Labour at all and have not for some time. For the past 3 elections that have not endorsed Labour fully and for the past two not at all.
This image from the Guardian itself proves it:
While the image does not show the 2015 result, I have seen it before on the Guardians website, I just could not find it again. But it shows them supporting the Liberals again. As you work there please feel free to supply the latest image so, all of us can see how the Guardian is no longer a Labour supporting paper.
So, when Labour needed them most the Guardian was not there for them. And this is way before Corbyn obtained the Leadership.
Once you see the evidence from the Guardian itself, you can clearly see that it is no longer a paper of the Left. In fact if you take the 2015 election into account the majority of the Election support over time has been against Labour, not for it.
The only paper that consistently supports Labour is the Mirror. The rest all support Big Business in one form or another. Thus for a Left wing movement to make any gains in our so called democratic society, it has to take on almost the entire might of the establishment and its propaganda machine to make any in roads. Not easy especially when the Guardian pretends to be with you and in the end at the crunch time is against you.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
I don't see how that graphic proves the Guardian hates Corbyn, but never mind.
The Guardian is not a "Labour paper". It is a left-liberal paper, born from the same non conformist traditions as the Labour party. But at all points in its history emphasised that it is independent, and beholden to no one. That means it has supported different parties at different times, depending on manifestos, the state of politics at the time, and so on.
Its support for the Lib Dems in 2010, in retrospect a terrible error, was not out of a desire to move right, but because of dismay at the colossal failures of the last years of the Labour government. I never knew it backed the Tories in 1955, though. | | | |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 11:54 - Jul 22 with 4633 views | Discodroids |
| Why Does The Guardian Hate Corbyn? on 09:55 - Jul 22 by stevec |
''...an emotional and intellectual inertia in the scientific community''. Don't you just love the way lefties talk and analyse, practically piss meself every time.
Actually, the article sort of gets it right but, as usual, in the wrong way.
My old Dad was a union man, a young Communist, died a Tory. As he used to say, the only thing any of them cared about was power, he saw it from within. Today's Labour party is representative of those times, they've reached the pinnacle, they love it, they don't want to lose it. Corbyn is losing it. Naturally, they don't like it, so won't like him.
It's telling that in a period where the people have spoken, real democracy, a kick in the teeth to the elite, that Labour are at their most angriest. Speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know about the Guardian. |
Friends , I have the strong impression that Friend Steve is a Far-Right infiltrator in to this Progressive Left forum.
Friends, as you all know , I am a member of the Progressive Left and have been so since before I was born, and indeed, even earlier than that. I enjoy the way Friend Guardian yesterday Circumnavigated the political tightrope by demanding the labour party recognise the democratic mandate Corbyn has from the members and at the same time screaming that the Brexit vote should be overturned.
Let us, friends, ignore that tiny handful of 17,410,742 Far-Right racist, bigoted, uneducated old Fascists, who had the effrontery to vote against Our EU last month, and instead listen to the people who really matter, e.g. Our Young People, who were far too busy working 95-hour weeks on Zero Hour Contracts in compulsory Foodbanks to vote in what was in any case, a totally rigged and undemocratic so-called Referendum under the Tory Junta. [Post edited 22 Jul 2016 11:56]
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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