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The Telegraph â€@Telegraph 1m1 minute ago Latest #football4sale allegations concern Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink at QPR, Tommy Wright of Barnsley and Leeds' Massimo Cellino
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:20 - Sep 29 with 2471 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 23:32 - Sep 28 by qpr85
He is avoiding tax but the way he's doing it is perfectly legal.
He says if he does a job in England he will pay 45% tax but if he does a job outside of the UK he can put it straight in his account in Holland. So technically and legally not avoiding tax as he did not earn it in UK.
I think that's right anyway might be wrong
That is not correct. An individual can only be based in one country for taxation purposes, and you pay that country's rate of tax on all your earnings, irrespective of where the money was earnt. Additionally, to pay tax in a country you usually have to be resident in that country for a minimum period each year, often six months. For instance, I no longer pay UK tax despite my earnings being in the UK because I live in Cyprus for a minimum 6 months each year and therefore pay tax in Cyprus on my UK income.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:25 - Sep 29 with 2451 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:19 - Sep 29 by PunteR
It wouldn't surprise me if the club stick by him. Les and TF, Hoos must know all this goes on on in football literally everywhere at all levels of the game. I'm still surprised that its Jimmy that was next in line after the England manager especially when all the rumours were about the previous QPR managers(excluding Ramsey). JFH been done like a kipper. I guess the real question QPR should be asking is ,has JFH actually been taking bungs off real agents..? Can the Telegraph prove that?
It doesn't matter now Punte,the damage is done and every little mistake he makes will be pounced upon and used to beat him down with. Can you imagine the reaction if he's in charge at Fulham and we lose badly? He's been an absolute Pratt just like big Sam and lost any trust the fans had for him. The damage is done.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:26 - Sep 29 with 2448 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:20 - Sep 29 by jonno
That is not correct. An individual can only be based in one country for taxation purposes, and you pay that country's rate of tax on all your earnings, irrespective of where the money was earnt. Additionally, to pay tax in a country you usually have to be resident in that country for a minimum period each year, often six months. For instance, I no longer pay UK tax despite my earnings being in the UK because I live in Cyprus for a minimum 6 months each year and therefore pay tax in Cyprus on my UK income.
He's probably Dutch domiciled in which case earnings outside the UK might not be taxable in the UK but taxed in Holland. Then there's the remittance basis which might lead to a UK charge as he's implied that he's shifting it over after being taxed, but it's all pretty cloudy and quite possibly not illegal. It's a very messy area.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:38 - Sep 29 with 2393 views
In the cold light of day, after a night's sleep, I now reckon he's going to go, not because the board thinks he should, but because you lot will hound him out. They won't have any choice; if the supporters don't support you, you are fckd.
Tony will cowl down to you all and that will be that.
I think we need to trust the club on this one, my only concern is, was he targeted because he has previous at clubs prior the QPR.
The meeting took place just before the transfer window closed and the comments about supplying players was where JFH got uncomfortable. This was not the reason he was there, he was offered cash to promote the business. The club need to make it clear what the policy is for external promotions work away from the club. This still feels like entrapment by the telegraph and we all need to calm down and let the club deal with it.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:39 - Sep 29 with 2384 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:19 - Sep 29 by PunteR
It wouldn't surprise me if the club stick by him. Les and TF, Hoos must know all this goes on on in football literally everywhere at all levels of the game. I'm still surprised that its Jimmy that was next in line after the England manager especially when all the rumours were about the previous QPR managers(excluding Ramsey). JFH been done like a kipper. I guess the real question QPR should be asking is ,has JFH actually been taking bungs off real agents..? Can the Telegraph prove that?
Like I said the Telegraph would not have identified & investigated JFH if they hadn't heard or known he had form for this.
I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:47 - Sep 29 with 2347 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 06:19 - Sep 29 by Lblock
Classic Bungle / QPR response..... Barnsley take the correct decisive approach but we tit about
How can he have the players respect at all now? Serious questions for me at the moment over every transfer he's been involved in - especially Kwepka, ELK and the crazy Conor fee
Huge distraction on the eve of the D-day game for me
The Barnsley guy has taken cash to put the agents in front of the manager and chairmen of his club on video.
JFH has negotiated a speaker fee and trip for international week (when players are given time off) and then had a discussion where its been proposed that agents find him a player.
There are degrees here the first is clear corruption the second is very grey indeed
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:59 - Sep 29 with 2264 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:50 - Sep 29 by baz_qpr
The Barnsley guy has taken cash to put the agents in front of the manager and chairmen of his club on video.
JFH has negotiated a speaker fee and trip for international week (when players are given time off) and then had a discussion where its been proposed that agents find him a player.
There are degrees here the first is clear corruption the second is very grey indeed
What you've got to ask yourself is would JFH command £55k on the after dinner speaking circuit? That's the cover story isn't it surely? They're barmy in the Far East but not barmy enough to pay thousands of pounds to here the rookie manager of Queens Park Rangers speak.
Either way, credibility absolutely shot now, he's got to go.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:00 - Sep 29 with 2255 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:38 - Sep 29 by chris1969
I think we need to trust the club on this one, my only concern is, was he targeted because he has previous at clubs prior the QPR.
The meeting took place just before the transfer window closed and the comments about supplying players was where JFH got uncomfortable. This was not the reason he was there, he was offered cash to promote the business. The club need to make it clear what the policy is for external promotions work away from the club. This still feels like entrapment by the telegraph and we all need to calm down and let the club deal with it.
Forget about the word entrapment. I work in an industry whereby the regulator employs 'mystery shoppers' to ensure that we deal with clients to the minimum standards set by the regulator. What the Telegraph has done is like a mystery shopping exercise to show whether firstly Allardyce is morally up to the England managers job and then has gone for a few more names to prove their morality. As has been said already it is possible that Hasselbaink was targeted because of some 'let's call it smoke' around his morality. I vbase this theory on the fact that another individual that was targeted was the Barnsley assistant manager, which for the rest of the footballing world, frankly nobody would give a toss about except for Barnsley and its supporters. More to come I think.
What tells you more about the mindset of the club is they looked at it yesterday and issued a statement promising an enquiry but indicating they were backing him all the way. The initial instinct was there was nothing wrong with it.
If you look at all the cr@p of the last few years and wonder how we seem to end up with the wrong sort you have your answer right away.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:11 - Sep 29 with 2172 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:00 - Sep 29 by DWQPR
Forget about the word entrapment. I work in an industry whereby the regulator employs 'mystery shoppers' to ensure that we deal with clients to the minimum standards set by the regulator. What the Telegraph has done is like a mystery shopping exercise to show whether firstly Allardyce is morally up to the England managers job and then has gone for a few more names to prove their morality. As has been said already it is possible that Hasselbaink was targeted because of some 'let's call it smoke' around his morality. I vbase this theory on the fact that another individual that was targeted was the Barnsley assistant manager, which for the rest of the footballing world, frankly nobody would give a toss about except for Barnsley and its supporters. More to come I think.
What concerns me is that he was targeted for the sting in the first place.
The telegraph would have had to cherry pick who they went after and my guess is they would have sought a level of intelligence about who had previous and was likely to bite.
That said I'm not convinced that the 55k for a three day speaking circuit is as crazy a fee as has been suggested - yep he's a rookie manager but his name extends far beyond that from his playing exploits. I've just looked it up and as an example Kevin Keegan charges up to 10k purely for an after dinner speech. What was proposed to JFH was a three day conference, not just a one hour speech - overseas too.
This one is a grey area I'd say, but because he's not been ripping up any trees managerially he'll prob go. If we were top of the league I think he'd stay.
If not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. PG Wodehouse
Jimmy should step down today, for the good of the club if nothing else! Im getting really focked off with the name of this great club getting dragged through the shite again, i thought those days were over for us! To say im pissed off would be a understatement!
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:59 - Sep 29 by Northernr
What you've got to ask yourself is would JFH command £55k on the after dinner speaking circuit? That's the cover story isn't it surely? They're barmy in the Far East but not barmy enough to pay thousands of pounds to here the rookie manager of Queens Park Rangers speak.
Either way, credibility absolutely shot now, he's got to go.
Yes that's a very good point here. 55K for JHF, who dat they cry, never heard of him.
Wonder what today will bring??
I guess we can look forward to a piece on this Clive, once the dust settles??
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:15 - Sep 29 with 2147 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 00:40 - Sep 29 by davman
Still not 100% sure whether he has done wrong. Saying and doing are two VERY different beasts.
But, what I am 100% sure of is that people would be a lot slower to light the fire to burn if if results were better.
If this makes him 'dodgy' as some of you suggest, then he's not the first QPR Manager you could level that at, is he? The game has so many bloody hangers on now who certainly know how to milk the cash cow.
Just wish it wasn't us yet again!
Nah, Dav. Disagree and think that's a misrepresentation of this thread.
There are several, including me, on here that have backed him before and wanted to give him this season.
But it's a conflict of interest that is unacceptable, in my view. The fake firm also make it clear in the meeting they can provide players. Jimmy (possibly jokingly) says he needs a forward. Doesn't go any further (in this meeting). But being paid by a company who are involved in selling something (in whatever capacity), and being employed by a company who but those things (over which he had some control) is a conflict of interests. You can't do it.
He's not actually discussing signing a player for £55k here, buthe's agreeing to put himself in a position from which he could behave corruptly. In any regulated industry (football is not), putting yourself in such a position, even if you don't execute it is strictly prohibited.
The other major point, linked to the potential conflict of interest, is can the players still trust him? Will they think that bloke was signed because JFH was on the take from that agency, etc?? Will the fanbase now trust him? As a club Les and Hoos put in a code of conduct (club above everything else), new ethos, etc, he's agreeing to shift training here to make £55k. Hardly in line with the code of conduct.
Look, I backed him, wanted him to have the full season. This has nothing to do with results or league position for me. If you talk the talk about codes of conduct, you have to walk the walk or it means nothing. And it's crucial we change how other players see QPR. I think he has to go. My view, is others think differently, that's cool too.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:24 - Sep 29 with 2082 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:15 - Sep 29 by Hunterhoop
Nah, Dav. Disagree and think that's a misrepresentation of this thread.
There are several, including me, on here that have backed him before and wanted to give him this season.
But it's a conflict of interest that is unacceptable, in my view. The fake firm also make it clear in the meeting they can provide players. Jimmy (possibly jokingly) says he needs a forward. Doesn't go any further (in this meeting). But being paid by a company who are involved in selling something (in whatever capacity), and being employed by a company who but those things (over which he had some control) is a conflict of interests. You can't do it.
He's not actually discussing signing a player for £55k here, buthe's agreeing to put himself in a position from which he could behave corruptly. In any regulated industry (football is not), putting yourself in such a position, even if you don't execute it is strictly prohibited.
The other major point, linked to the potential conflict of interest, is can the players still trust him? Will they think that bloke was signed because JFH was on the take from that agency, etc?? Will the fanbase now trust him? As a club Les and Hoos put in a code of conduct (club above everything else), new ethos, etc, he's agreeing to shift training here to make £55k. Hardly in line with the code of conduct.
Look, I backed him, wanted him to have the full season. This has nothing to do with results or league position for me. If you talk the talk about codes of conduct, you have to walk the walk or it means nothing. And it's crucial we change how other players see QPR. I think he has to go. My view, is others think differently, that's cool too.
Very disappointed about this after a night's sleep. I really wanted JFH to do well, wanted him here for the season and was hopeful he'd improve and we'd improve over the season. What's more, I believed in the integrity of the man.
I agree with Hunter that this is not about his performance on the pitch or training ground. Put simply, you can't take money off agents. Once they started talking about selling him players he should have said "sorry lads, I can do speaking work for you. Or we can talk with Les about players. But we can't do both."
This is absolutely the last thing we need right now. Sadly, though, his judgement has left the club with no choice.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:24 - Sep 29 by BrianMcCarthy
Very disappointed about this after a night's sleep. I really wanted JFH to do well, wanted him here for the season and was hopeful he'd improve and we'd improve over the season. What's more, I believed in the integrity of the man.
I agree with Hunter that this is not about his performance on the pitch or training ground. Put simply, you can't take money off agents. Once they started talking about selling him players he should have said "sorry lads, I can do speaking work for you. Or we can talk with Les about players. But we can't do both."
This is absolutely the last thing we need right now. Sadly, though, his judgement has left the club with no choice.
Yeh, agree with you and Hunter, and I think all three of us were keen for him to stay originally.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:28 - Sep 29 with 2058 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:15 - Sep 29 by Hunterhoop
Nah, Dav. Disagree and think that's a misrepresentation of this thread.
There are several, including me, on here that have backed him before and wanted to give him this season.
But it's a conflict of interest that is unacceptable, in my view. The fake firm also make it clear in the meeting they can provide players. Jimmy (possibly jokingly) says he needs a forward. Doesn't go any further (in this meeting). But being paid by a company who are involved in selling something (in whatever capacity), and being employed by a company who but those things (over which he had some control) is a conflict of interests. You can't do it.
He's not actually discussing signing a player for £55k here, buthe's agreeing to put himself in a position from which he could behave corruptly. In any regulated industry (football is not), putting yourself in such a position, even if you don't execute it is strictly prohibited.
The other major point, linked to the potential conflict of interest, is can the players still trust him? Will they think that bloke was signed because JFH was on the take from that agency, etc?? Will the fanbase now trust him? As a club Les and Hoos put in a code of conduct (club above everything else), new ethos, etc, he's agreeing to shift training here to make £55k. Hardly in line with the code of conduct.
Look, I backed him, wanted him to have the full season. This has nothing to do with results or league position for me. If you talk the talk about codes of conduct, you have to walk the walk or it means nothing. And it's crucial we change how other players see QPR. I think he has to go. My view, is others think differently, that's cool too.
Totally agree mate, jimmys job is now untenable and i also wanted him to be given more time.No-one is bigger than the club and the sooner he goes the better.
AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!!
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 07:15 - Sep 29 by kingshill
Great shout. Whatever the facts he has brought our club into disrepute, shown a lack of dedication to the role and for both of those he has to go.
"Whatever the facts he has brought our club into disrepute"
It would seem from some of the posts in this thread that his Ch**sea background and below par performances are swaying some peoples opinions but this one just made me LOL and reminded me of this...
"Now THAT is scientific fact, there's no real evidence for it but it is scientific fact.
We know these guys earn stupid money so hearing them talk about £50k or £400k for a few days abroad making speeches pisses us off big time but it's the world they live in. A lot of us don't earn £50k a year but you can't let that sway your opinion to "he's a greedy SOB and has to go". £50k is a week's wages for some of these guys so we have to get over ourselves and just live with it.
Are they all at it? Of course they bleedin are! Don't be naive. It's just that our zebra has been targeted by the crocodiles whilst all the other zebras are looking on thinking, "that could have been me".
There's also the thing about what you say to one person in private is not necessarily what you really believe (or will do when push comes to shove).
He was negotiating a fee for a job in the International break, forget about how much he already earns and what you could do with that money, is there anything really wrong with that? The real issue here is what he said when asked about taking players, he sort of laughed it off saying something like it had to be a really good player....that's what they wanted to hear but in all probability is not what he would do as he knows he doesn't have the final say but they don't know that. A fool and his money etc... he hasn't agreed to anything with regard to players so keeps the conversation open ended so as not to jeopardise the £50k deal for the 3 day jolly.
Problem is he was caught on camera and in this day and age, that means you are hung drawn and quartered within minutes of the news breaking "whatever the facts". Oh well, here we go again....
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:35 - Sep 29 with 2009 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:11 - Sep 29 by ingeminate
What concerns me is that he was targeted for the sting in the first place.
The telegraph would have had to cherry pick who they went after and my guess is they would have sought a level of intelligence about who had previous and was likely to bite.
That said I'm not convinced that the 55k for a three day speaking circuit is as crazy a fee as has been suggested - yep he's a rookie manager but his name extends far beyond that from his playing exploits. I've just looked it up and as an example Kevin Keegan charges up to 10k purely for an after dinner speech. What was proposed to JFH was a three day conference, not just a one hour speech - overseas too.
This one is a grey area I'd say, but because he's not been ripping up any trees managerially he'll prob go. If we were top of the league I think he'd stay.
I dunno. They've been at this for months. They would have gone for whoever they (and more importantly, McGarvey) could get a meeting with, and JFH is a well-known name and also QPR have name value. Am I reading it wrong, or is their entire sting based on the unknowing McGarvey and his contacts?
All managers are desperate for players. All the time. So, other than managers at places like Man U or Man C, where you can pretty much buy whoever you want, if someone asks you these two questions:
1. Would you speak to our investors for £55k? 2. Would you then take a look at some players?
The answer would be yes to both. We talk about conflict of interests, but managers routinely sign players who they share an agent with, for example. Conflict of interests is rife in this game. The idea that all signings are brought in by scouts is so out of date it's untrue - managers spend half their lives fielding calls from agents, even cultivating relationships with agents so they can get players. It is really murky, but that is how it is.
Personally, I think there is conflict of interest here. But I also think the fact JFH says he hasn't googled them yet shows he's not committing to anything. I don't think £55k for an ex-Prem player and now manager to speak in the far east is an outlandish figure at all - even low level celebs get £30k for doing corporates over here, so £55k for a 3 or 4 day trip is hardly ridiculous (as much as it feels like it is).
I think he's been stung, I think he's been embarrassed and ultimately I think he'll probably have to go - but good luck finding anyone who wouldn't have at least taken a meeting with these people and who wouldn't have answered in a similar way to JFH. I mean, at Burton he was on 60k per year, one of the lowest paid managers in the league. It doesn't feel like he's motivated by money. So he's fked up big time.
As others have said, if we were top of the league, fans would be circling the wagons. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that our three previous managers before Ramsey have done far worse than this, including the fan (and my) favourite. Two of those I have heard stories from people directly involved (one player, one chief scout) with them that make this pale into insignificance. But Jimmy's the one on camera.
A real shame. Would like to see the whole video though. Les must be furious.
Bare bones.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:39 - Sep 29 with 1972 views
55k is steep but ridiculously not outrageous for other side of the world. 10-15k for an after dinner speech here is fairly standard, same for high level TV work. He's there for 3 days, loads of face time with the corporates, probably a couple of rounds of golf too.
How he's seen by the fans though is where this will all play out.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:48 - Sep 29 with 1897 views
If the club want to stand by him they only have to say that had permission to attend the meeting , is free to do public speaking and does not have final say on transfers so cannot see a conflict of interest. I can't see the players giving a toss ..
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:49 - Sep 29 with 1876 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:35 - Sep 29 by Antti_Heinola
I dunno. They've been at this for months. They would have gone for whoever they (and more importantly, McGarvey) could get a meeting with, and JFH is a well-known name and also QPR have name value. Am I reading it wrong, or is their entire sting based on the unknowing McGarvey and his contacts?
All managers are desperate for players. All the time. So, other than managers at places like Man U or Man C, where you can pretty much buy whoever you want, if someone asks you these two questions:
1. Would you speak to our investors for £55k? 2. Would you then take a look at some players?
The answer would be yes to both. We talk about conflict of interests, but managers routinely sign players who they share an agent with, for example. Conflict of interests is rife in this game. The idea that all signings are brought in by scouts is so out of date it's untrue - managers spend half their lives fielding calls from agents, even cultivating relationships with agents so they can get players. It is really murky, but that is how it is.
Personally, I think there is conflict of interest here. But I also think the fact JFH says he hasn't googled them yet shows he's not committing to anything. I don't think £55k for an ex-Prem player and now manager to speak in the far east is an outlandish figure at all - even low level celebs get £30k for doing corporates over here, so £55k for a 3 or 4 day trip is hardly ridiculous (as much as it feels like it is).
I think he's been stung, I think he's been embarrassed and ultimately I think he'll probably have to go - but good luck finding anyone who wouldn't have at least taken a meeting with these people and who wouldn't have answered in a similar way to JFH. I mean, at Burton he was on 60k per year, one of the lowest paid managers in the league. It doesn't feel like he's motivated by money. So he's fked up big time.
As others have said, if we were top of the league, fans would be circling the wagons. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that our three previous managers before Ramsey have done far worse than this, including the fan (and my) favourite. Two of those I have heard stories from people directly involved (one player, one chief scout) with them that make this pale into insignificance. But Jimmy's the one on camera.
A real shame. Would like to see the whole video though. Les must be furious.
Agree with all of this, Managers have been taking on all kinds of extra work for years. From punditry, to sponsorship, to after dinner speaking.
The pity is that it once again drags our name through the mud though, and I feel particularly for Tony Fernandes this morning. He generally backs his managers, and Ramsey apart they have all let him down.
And it feeds our fanbase' new signings/new manager addiction even further.
I'm up for a couple of years of absolutely no bullshit under Mick McCarthy please.
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