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Just back... 22:31 - Oct 22 with 7188 viewsHunterhoop

Well, that was a dull game.

0-0, 1-1, 1-0, 2-0 (to Wed) would have all been justifiable. We simply didn't ask enough questions of them. Onouha and Calker were solid. Hamalinen and Gladwin really struggled, and Washington just wasn't sharp. Last 5, when we had Pavel and Shodipo on, we looked more threatening, but all too late. It just still doesn't look like JFH has found an identity for us in terms of "how" we attack. All a bit ad hoc/ hopeful. Had enough of the ball. But didn't do enough with it.

He played the same 4-3-3 system today btw. Gladwin in for Cousins, but we got pegged back, being the away side and that system meant we had little pace to attack with. It's gives us men forward, and at home may work, when teams sit deep, but I really think both Pavel and Shodipo need to play away from home. Their width and pace give us an outlet.

Gladwin really offered next to nothing on or off the ball. That's not me trying to find a boo boy or anything, he just didn't look like a Championship (or League 1) footballer.

The ref also played 15 seconds short of the minimum extra time, with the ball flying off for a corner to us, at the time he blew, which waa annoying.
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Just back... on 07:28 - Oct 23 with 5310 viewsdavman

Well done for going there, Tom. The lack of "Just Backs" made me think that, due to apathy, no-one had bothered!

Two things worry me about Gladwin. Firstly that he has failed to look anything like a footballer since he got here and secondly that JFH keeps on persevering with him. Surely, the ONLY reason we bought him was to get Luongo, so now we have Mass, it's time to offload Gladwin?

A truly awful player at this level.

This is not writing him off prematurely; he has been here for a season and a bit; ok he has been injured, but aside from a bit of skill v Leeds when he initially lost control of the ball, he has offered nothing as far as I can see.

His is the one name on the team sheet that makes my heart sink...

Sorry!

Can we go out yet?
Poll: What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month?

1
Just back... on 07:45 - Oct 23 with 5276 viewsBAWHoops

Just back... on 07:28 - Oct 23 by davman

Well done for going there, Tom. The lack of "Just Backs" made me think that, due to apathy, no-one had bothered!

Two things worry me about Gladwin. Firstly that he has failed to look anything like a footballer since he got here and secondly that JFH keeps on persevering with him. Surely, the ONLY reason we bought him was to get Luongo, so now we have Mass, it's time to offload Gladwin?

A truly awful player at this level.

This is not writing him off prematurely; he has been here for a season and a bit; ok he has been injured, but aside from a bit of skill v Leeds when he initially lost control of the ball, he has offered nothing as far as I can see.

His is the one name on the team sheet that makes my heart sink...

Sorry!


He's started 6 games for us!

http://blogandwhitehoops.wordpress.com/

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Just back... on 08:10 - Oct 23 with 5218 viewsdaveB

Gladwin may well end up failing at QPR, Iv'e not been impressed by him yet but amazing how quick he's been written off. Only played a handful of games and cis clearly a raw player not long out of non league. The abuse towards him and JFH for picking him on twitter was amazing today before a ball had been kicked although imagine the same people would have still ranted if Henry had played instead.

Sounded like an even game today, similar to most this season, apart from Newcastle and Leeds every game has been close and we've had chances to win and lose every game, been like two blindfolded drunks having a fight, someone is going to win but no one know how or why.
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Just back... on 09:01 - Oct 23 with 5059 viewsRangersw12

Chery was also awful and partly at fault for the goal as he couldn't be bothered to track back
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Just back... on 10:14 - Oct 23 with 4883 views18StoneOfHoop

Just back... on 09:01 - Oct 23 by Rangersw12

Chery was also awful and partly at fault for the goal as he couldn't be bothered to track back


Chery was the star R's man on Channel 5 brief 'highlights' -involved in every attacking movement,two on target shots from range and a good corner for a scramble.

I agree with Hunter and davman more than Dave Barton or BAW re Gladwin and think over 2 seasons his mediocre 6 starts and sub apps and reserve apps - he,Polter and Sandro played for the stiffs last season in a match at LR,the other 2 looked goodish and were at least visibly giving it their all,BG 11 not so much. He's shown very little. I would write his transfer off,a la Jordan Mutch or JET.

Only 1 in 4 transfers are a success says Sir Les,this one destined not to be. Joey Beauchamp was happier at Oxford,WHU too big a step..maybe the same for Gladwin more suited to being at Swindon. There are better options in the squad. Why didn't Pawel Wszolek start?
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 10:20]

'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.." Love,Peace and Fook Chelski! More like 20StoneOfHoop now. Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner. Pass the cake and pies please.

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Just back... on 10:42 - Oct 23 with 4795 viewsHunterhoop

Just back... on 09:01 - Oct 23 by Rangersw12

Chery was also awful and partly at fault for the goal as he couldn't be bothered to track back


Not sure how!

It comes from a cross being cleared to 25 yards out. It's then Gladwin who doesn't work hard enough to close down their bloke who has a shot, screws it wide, until it deflects into the path of Hooper 8 yards out.

Are we blaming Chery for not stopping the original cross? Seems a bit of a stretch. It wasn't really a defensive error that goal.

Saying all that Chery wasn't great. Yes, what good we did involved him because we had no width or other way of attacking. Washington was off his game and Gladwin was a passenger. Chery and Luongo were the driving forces but too often they had too few options and as a result tried to force a final ball that wasn't there. It just didn't look like we had w clear coherent way of trying to attack.

Dave, on Gladwin, he was getting abuse during the game and I certainly don't want him to fail. But my god, he really doesn't look like a footballer! One paved, so slow to react, doesn't get stuck, control looks laboured, doesn't get his head up. He just doesn't look like a professional midfielder.

On a positive note, Onouha was excellent at CB; he made a couple of cracking tackles which he flew into and won most on the air. Pavel looked dangerous when he came on but should have shot when he crossed.
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Just back... on 10:48 - Oct 23 with 4776 viewsrsonist

Just back... on 07:28 - Oct 23 by davman

Well done for going there, Tom. The lack of "Just Backs" made me think that, due to apathy, no-one had bothered!

Two things worry me about Gladwin. Firstly that he has failed to look anything like a footballer since he got here and secondly that JFH keeps on persevering with him. Surely, the ONLY reason we bought him was to get Luongo, so now we have Mass, it's time to offload Gladwin?

A truly awful player at this level.

This is not writing him off prematurely; he has been here for a season and a bit; ok he has been injured, but aside from a bit of skill v Leeds when he initially lost control of the ball, he has offered nothing as far as I can see.

His is the one name on the team sheet that makes my heart sink...

Sorry!


Considered and patient support based on a first hand assessment - thanks for sharing Divman. Hope you recover from your sunken heart okay.
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Just back... on 11:22 - Oct 23 with 4673 viewsderbyhoop

"We simply didn't ask enough questions of them." That's what was said on the commentary.
Didn't sound as if there was a deal to choose between them, which, considering they lost in the playoff final, is some sort of compliment.

On the limited evidence so far, I feel that neither Gladwin nor El Khayati will be able to step up. Decent L1 players but that's it. C'est la vie. Not all transfers work. When you're shopping in the bargain basement, many of them won't.

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain) Find me on twitter @derbyhoop

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Just back... on 15:28 - Oct 23 with 4287 viewsizlingtonhoop

#1 son is showing me student drinking dens in Sheffield this afternoon. Hic. First time at Hillsborough. What a lovely stadium.

Middle aged over zealous stewards looking for the slightest hint of trouble might have spoiled things. Fortunately no one gave them the opportunity that I saw.

Relax guys. Please.
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Just back... on 15:43 - Oct 23 with 4247 viewsYorkRanger

Gladwin was poor and at times looks half hearted. Will he make the grade or not, who knows. That said the abuse that he was getting yesterday is not likely to help him or the team, I appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion but it's incredibly disappointing to hear....
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 15:50]
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Just back... on 15:44 - Oct 23 with 4237 viewsAntti_Heinola

Just back... on 10:42 - Oct 23 by Hunterhoop

Not sure how!

It comes from a cross being cleared to 25 yards out. It's then Gladwin who doesn't work hard enough to close down their bloke who has a shot, screws it wide, until it deflects into the path of Hooper 8 yards out.

Are we blaming Chery for not stopping the original cross? Seems a bit of a stretch. It wasn't really a defensive error that goal.

Saying all that Chery wasn't great. Yes, what good we did involved him because we had no width or other way of attacking. Washington was off his game and Gladwin was a passenger. Chery and Luongo were the driving forces but too often they had too few options and as a result tried to force a final ball that wasn't there. It just didn't look like we had w clear coherent way of trying to attack.

Dave, on Gladwin, he was getting abuse during the game and I certainly don't want him to fail. But my god, he really doesn't look like a footballer! One paved, so slow to react, doesn't get stuck, control looks laboured, doesn't get his head up. He just doesn't look like a professional midfielder.

On a positive note, Onouha was excellent at CB; he made a couple of cracking tackles which he flew into and won most on the air. Pavel looked dangerous when he came on but should have shot when he crossed.


Hunter, I've noticed a few times you write things like this - but what do you mean by a 'a clear coherent way to attack'? Genuine question, not being sarcy or anything, just not sure what you mean. Do you mean how some teams will look to hit a big man and play off him, while others look to get it to their wingers asap? Or is it more complex than that? For example, yesterday apart, Arsenal score a lot - what's their method?

And on a genuinely cheeky note - wasn't it you campaigning to keep 4-3-3 after Tue night? ;)

Sheff Wed a good side anyway - a few weeks ago I'd have been worried we might have had a Newcastle situation on our hands, but hopefully we're beginning to put that behind us. We've now got a decent run of games without midweek games, so JFH should be able to pick his best side, injuries permitting - will be interesting to see what that is. Interesting that he kept faith with the side that finished the game in the week. Suspect if Cousins and Lynch hadn't been injured, we'd have been totally unchanged.

Brentford a big one...

Bare bones.

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Just back... on 16:13 - Oct 23 with 4188 viewsdavman

Just back... on 10:48 - Oct 23 by rsonist

Considered and patient support based on a first hand assessment - thanks for sharing Divman. Hope you recover from your sunken heart okay.


"Divman" - Strewth, REALLY???

Nope, I wasn't there yesterday , but I've seen Gladwin more than a few times since he's been here and can't see anything. At least with Washington, you could see effort to change things (he may have been trying too hard), but not with Gladwin.

Still, that's just my opinion and I guess it warrants schoolboy abuse because you may not agree - nice one...

Can we go out yet?
Poll: What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month?

1
Just back... on 16:21 - Oct 23 with 4161 views18StoneOfHoop

Just back... on 16:13 - Oct 23 by davman

"Divman" - Strewth, REALLY???

Nope, I wasn't there yesterday , but I've seen Gladwin more than a few times since he's been here and can't see anything. At least with Washington, you could see effort to change things (he may have been trying too hard), but not with Gladwin.

Still, that's just my opinion and I guess it warrants schoolboy abuse because you may not agree - nice one...


Rsonist,the Rsier-than-thou purer-than-pure
Home and away never missed a game
Rangers Robespierre Ultra.
He's taking names and making notes ready for the Tribunal you know.


[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 16:32]

'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.." Love,Peace and Fook Chelski! More like 20StoneOfHoop now. Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner. Pass the cake and pies please.

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Just back... on 18:11 - Oct 23 with 3994 viewsLblock

Gladwin. Oh Gladwin....

He could be a player. It's maybe a level to high; however my mantra is... A.B.H

Anyone
But
Henry

End of!

Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal

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Just back... on 19:00 - Oct 23 with 3915 viewsHunterhoop

Just back... on 15:44 - Oct 23 by Antti_Heinola

Hunter, I've noticed a few times you write things like this - but what do you mean by a 'a clear coherent way to attack'? Genuine question, not being sarcy or anything, just not sure what you mean. Do you mean how some teams will look to hit a big man and play off him, while others look to get it to their wingers asap? Or is it more complex than that? For example, yesterday apart, Arsenal score a lot - what's their method?

And on a genuinely cheeky note - wasn't it you campaigning to keep 4-3-3 after Tue night? ;)

Sheff Wed a good side anyway - a few weeks ago I'd have been worried we might have had a Newcastle situation on our hands, but hopefully we're beginning to put that behind us. We've now got a decent run of games without midweek games, so JFH should be able to pick his best side, injuries permitting - will be interesting to see what that is. Interesting that he kept faith with the side that finished the game in the week. Suspect if Cousins and Lynch hadn't been injured, we'd have been totally unchanged.

Brentford a big one...


No, I wasn't me campaigning for us to keep 433 a week ago. Check back to that big tactical piece o did in response to one of your knee jerks. I believe it commented about the wide players stating wide, stretching the pitch and not getting caught too far forward flat with the oppo FB. I've certainly posted hat before.

Saying all that, 433 certainly worked at home on Tues. in my earlier post I suggested one of the possible reasons it did on Tues and not here.

In terms of your first question, in essence, yes, it is as simple as that, with obvious complexities in the detail of how you execute it. But yes, there are a handful of core ways a team can be set up to attack, and only a handful (obviously the below are crude summaries):

- hit a big man early and get men around him, often a fellow nippy forward to get on the end of the flick ones
- play two up top, with a big target man showing short drawing the defence up so you can go over the top for a quick forward to run on to. Requires two up top. If the oppo sit deep your target man needs to be a threat and hold it up.
- play it up to a hold up man who gives it back to a 10/fellow forward to thread through balls to inverted runs made my wide players and the front man or have the ball thread through from the central midfielders to the no. 10 who sits in between the lines, and then opens up the oppo defence as above. - I think this is the closest to what JFH is trying to do with Chery as the no. 10.
- play with genuine wingers and width, with either two forwards to feed crosses to, or with a no. 9 and a no.10 and attacking central midfielder breaking late into the box. Key here is the genuine width and wide players dropping to get the ball to feet and running at their man to get crosses in from as close to the byline as possible, not receiving the ball back to goal with the oppo full back up their arse. When we have the ball our wingers are to "get wide" not get forward straight away. Do that after they've got the ball to feet.
- "tiki taka" intricate triangles, always keeping the ball to feet, constant movement from the front 6, lots of interchange and the front 4 being extremely fluid, all making runs in behind and across the back 4 trying to find holes. Requires great close control.

I think QPR fans have always preferred option 4. Warnock actually did 3, which I think is what JFH is trying. But Chery isn't as good as Adel was. Sylla and Polter aren't as good as Helguson, our wide players (with the exclusion of Shodipo and Pavel) aren't as good, or as natural wide, as Smith, Mackie and Routledge were, and, most importantly, we don't have a Faurlin threading beautiful passes through to a no. 10 between the lines.

Anyway, what I'm not sure of is that the players are fully clear on how we're meant to attack. Our personnel waver from having no wingers on the pitch to two from one game to another. Chery is sometimes at no. 10, sometimes shoved out wide. Luongo apart, Counsins, Borysiuk and Henry aren't strong ball players, so struggle to play incisive forward passes. We never play a quick man off a big man to go direct. And our full backs rarely overlap.

I think JFH needs to decide which of the methods above we should try to play and stick to it.

Problem is, you stick with 3 and it puts a huge onus on Luongo, Chery, Polter/Sylla, and you ask Pavel and Shodipo to change their game.

I want us to go with option 4, play to Pavel and Shodipo's strength, because I also think it players to Polter's and Sylla's strength: attacking crosses. It's also easier and more straightforward for players to understand their roles. Get it down, get it wide to feet, attack the full back or play 1-2s with the no. 10, to slip you in down the flank to the byline, whip it in and ask Polter/Sylla and a late running Luongo to attack it, or pull it back for Chery.

It does mean we become very reliant on Shodipo and Pavel, as Gladwin, Cousins aren't the real deal out there and Washington is still learning it.

And, look, JFH knows football better than me; he knows his players better than me. The issue is I don't think his players know what our standard "go-to" way of attacking is. I don't think the squad knows how to attack naturally yet/how JFH wants us to attack naturally. That is on him, not them. Whatever approach he picks, and sometimes you need to change it, your players in each position need to be clear on exactly what's required of that position in that approach. They don't play like they are clear, hence why we look ponderous and why Chery often remonstrates with a lack of movement.

JFH seems to want to get the message across clearly about pressing, and that was what he spoke of first when joining us. I'm yet to be convinced he has decided on a core identity with regards to how we attack, let alone get the players clear and well drilled on it.
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Just back... on 20:40 - Oct 23 with 3758 viewsjohncharles

Is Robespiere available ? He would be great on the left.

Strong and stable my arse.

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Just back... on 00:05 - Oct 24 with 3499 viewsdaveB

Just back... on 10:14 - Oct 23 by 18StoneOfHoop

Chery was the star R's man on Channel 5 brief 'highlights' -involved in every attacking movement,two on target shots from range and a good corner for a scramble.

I agree with Hunter and davman more than Dave Barton or BAW re Gladwin and think over 2 seasons his mediocre 6 starts and sub apps and reserve apps - he,Polter and Sandro played for the stiffs last season in a match at LR,the other 2 looked goodish and were at least visibly giving it their all,BG 11 not so much. He's shown very little. I would write his transfer off,a la Jordan Mutch or JET.

Only 1 in 4 transfers are a success says Sir Les,this one destined not to be. Joey Beauchamp was happier at Oxford,WHU too big a step..maybe the same for Gladwin more suited to being at Swindon. There are better options in the squad. Why didn't Pawel Wszolek start?
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 10:20]


I do think he'll end up being a write off but I just find the anger yesterday from many on social media at his selection bizarre, it was at least an attacking move rather than start Henry. The boos when he came on the other night and groans whenever he touched the ball seem over the top to me, no wonder he lacks confidence.

18 months ago we were screaming for the club to take a chance on players from lower leagues, we've done that with a few and in Gladwins case then seem shocked when he plays like someone from the lower leagues who needs a lot of work to step up
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Just back... on 08:01 - Oct 24 with 3367 viewsbaz_qpr

Just back... on 19:00 - Oct 23 by Hunterhoop

No, I wasn't me campaigning for us to keep 433 a week ago. Check back to that big tactical piece o did in response to one of your knee jerks. I believe it commented about the wide players stating wide, stretching the pitch and not getting caught too far forward flat with the oppo FB. I've certainly posted hat before.

Saying all that, 433 certainly worked at home on Tues. in my earlier post I suggested one of the possible reasons it did on Tues and not here.

In terms of your first question, in essence, yes, it is as simple as that, with obvious complexities in the detail of how you execute it. But yes, there are a handful of core ways a team can be set up to attack, and only a handful (obviously the below are crude summaries):

- hit a big man early and get men around him, often a fellow nippy forward to get on the end of the flick ones
- play two up top, with a big target man showing short drawing the defence up so you can go over the top for a quick forward to run on to. Requires two up top. If the oppo sit deep your target man needs to be a threat and hold it up.
- play it up to a hold up man who gives it back to a 10/fellow forward to thread through balls to inverted runs made my wide players and the front man or have the ball thread through from the central midfielders to the no. 10 who sits in between the lines, and then opens up the oppo defence as above. - I think this is the closest to what JFH is trying to do with Chery as the no. 10.
- play with genuine wingers and width, with either two forwards to feed crosses to, or with a no. 9 and a no.10 and attacking central midfielder breaking late into the box. Key here is the genuine width and wide players dropping to get the ball to feet and running at their man to get crosses in from as close to the byline as possible, not receiving the ball back to goal with the oppo full back up their arse. When we have the ball our wingers are to "get wide" not get forward straight away. Do that after they've got the ball to feet.
- "tiki taka" intricate triangles, always keeping the ball to feet, constant movement from the front 6, lots of interchange and the front 4 being extremely fluid, all making runs in behind and across the back 4 trying to find holes. Requires great close control.

I think QPR fans have always preferred option 4. Warnock actually did 3, which I think is what JFH is trying. But Chery isn't as good as Adel was. Sylla and Polter aren't as good as Helguson, our wide players (with the exclusion of Shodipo and Pavel) aren't as good, or as natural wide, as Smith, Mackie and Routledge were, and, most importantly, we don't have a Faurlin threading beautiful passes through to a no. 10 between the lines.

Anyway, what I'm not sure of is that the players are fully clear on how we're meant to attack. Our personnel waver from having no wingers on the pitch to two from one game to another. Chery is sometimes at no. 10, sometimes shoved out wide. Luongo apart, Counsins, Borysiuk and Henry aren't strong ball players, so struggle to play incisive forward passes. We never play a quick man off a big man to go direct. And our full backs rarely overlap.

I think JFH needs to decide which of the methods above we should try to play and stick to it.

Problem is, you stick with 3 and it puts a huge onus on Luongo, Chery, Polter/Sylla, and you ask Pavel and Shodipo to change their game.

I want us to go with option 4, play to Pavel and Shodipo's strength, because I also think it players to Polter's and Sylla's strength: attacking crosses. It's also easier and more straightforward for players to understand their roles. Get it down, get it wide to feet, attack the full back or play 1-2s with the no. 10, to slip you in down the flank to the byline, whip it in and ask Polter/Sylla and a late running Luongo to attack it, or pull it back for Chery.

It does mean we become very reliant on Shodipo and Pavel, as Gladwin, Cousins aren't the real deal out there and Washington is still learning it.

And, look, JFH knows football better than me; he knows his players better than me. The issue is I don't think his players know what our standard "go-to" way of attacking is. I don't think the squad knows how to attack naturally yet/how JFH wants us to attack naturally. That is on him, not them. Whatever approach he picks, and sometimes you need to change it, your players in each position need to be clear on exactly what's required of that position in that approach. They don't play like they are clear, hence why we look ponderous and why Chery often remonstrates with a lack of movement.

JFH seems to want to get the message across clearly about pressing, and that was what he spoke of first when joining us. I'm yet to be convinced he has decided on a core identity with regards to how we attack, let alone get the players clear and well drilled on it.


Unless you're Man Utd of 15 years ago two out and out wingers and two forwards is so wide open you'll get stuffed each and every week. We've not played that way since the glory days of Francis and having Impey and Sinclair on each wing with Les up front
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Just back... on 08:05 - Oct 24 with 3361 viewsdavman

Just back... on 00:05 - Oct 24 by daveB

I do think he'll end up being a write off but I just find the anger yesterday from many on social media at his selection bizarre, it was at least an attacking move rather than start Henry. The boos when he came on the other night and groans whenever he touched the ball seem over the top to me, no wonder he lacks confidence.

18 months ago we were screaming for the club to take a chance on players from lower leagues, we've done that with a few and in Gladwins case then seem shocked when he plays like someone from the lower leagues who needs a lot of work to step up


No problem gambling on lower league players and knowing that some will fail.

Hoping that Gladwin isn't one, but the signs aren't good.

We go down this path, we have a club, so we have to live with the odd miss and hopefully a few hits too...

We go down the other path, we lose the club as we couldn't afford anything but success...
[Post edited 24 Oct 2016 8:09]

Can we go out yet?
Poll: What would you take for Willock if a bid comes this month?

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Just back... on 10:17 - Oct 24 with 3190 viewsHunterhoop

Just back... on 08:01 - Oct 24 by baz_qpr

Unless you're Man Utd of 15 years ago two out and out wingers and two forwards is so wide open you'll get stuffed each and every week. We've not played that way since the glory days of Francis and having Impey and Sinclair on each wing with Les up front


Agree, Baz. But it's clear from some on here (and at matches) that vast amounts of the fanbase want us to be that attacking and open.....and will still criticise when we get torn apart by someone.

And, it's why I wouldn't play two out and out players, I'd play Chery off Polter/Sylla. Call it 4-4-1-1 or a 4-2-3-1 but I do think it' crucial our wide players stay wide.

I also think Pavel and Shodipo are good and get up and down the flank well, and will provide more support for our overwhelmed full backs. If the CBs say tight and narrow and relatively high, meaning the two CMs can't drop deep, and our forced to play higher up, nearer to Chery (to create that triangle), putting pressure on their midfield, it can work.

This way, the CMs, Chery, Polter and the back 4 have a out ball (to the wingers, as they aren't pushed on tight to the oppo's full backs) and, as a team, we have a clear method of attack. Yes, we will be a little more open down the middle. But it's crucial, in my view, that Chery plays nearer Luongo and Borysiuk when we're not in possession. To often the ball gets goal side on him very early in the opposition build up play which then stretches us across the middle of the park.

There is also the mindset that attack is the best form of defence. Shopidop, Pavel, Chery, Luongo, Borysiuk AND a centre forward, should cause opposition problems, and with genuine width supplying crosses, we play to Polter's an Sylla's strengths.
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Just back... on 10:19 - Oct 24 with 3187 viewsNorthernr

Gladwin has made 12 appearances at Championship level in his entire career. That includes just six starts for QPR. Quite what he's managed to do in that time to justify the abuse, or even people saying "the signs don't look good" I don't know. This rush to write players off is mystifying to me.
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Just back... on 10:34 - Oct 24 with 3150 viewsfrancisbowles

Just back... on 10:19 - Oct 24 by Northernr

Gladwin has made 12 appearances at Championship level in his entire career. That includes just six starts for QPR. Quite what he's managed to do in that time to justify the abuse, or even people saying "the signs don't look good" I don't know. This rush to write players off is mystifying to me.


I agree, you only have to pause for a moment and think why has he been selected?
The manager, who probably knows more about the game than all of us put together, has watched him in training every day (overseas trips permitting Lol) and thinks he can DEVELOP into a useful player.

A lot of people in the stadium have made a judgement on a few minutes, entrench their views and the proceed to try and wreck that development by totally undermining the confidence of these very young people.

It is huge step up from one level to another, as someone mentioned, probably bigger than ever due to the analysis and strategic planning that goes into the game. The evidence is before our eyes, just look at Washington trying to make the step up and the targeting by the opposition we have seen of Furlong and Hamalainen.

Unfortunately, most people in the stadium are not on here so it goes on and on, from one hate target to another.
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Just back... on 10:49 - Oct 24 with 3123 viewsAntti_Heinola

Just back... on 10:19 - Oct 24 by Northernr

Gladwin has made 12 appearances at Championship level in his entire career. That includes just six starts for QPR. Quite what he's managed to do in that time to justify the abuse, or even people saying "the signs don't look good" I don't know. This rush to write players off is mystifying to me.


Yep - just a year ago, Polti got similar treatment away at Birmingham didn't he - and now he's everyone's favourite player.
That's modern fans for you.

Bare bones.

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Just back... on 10:52 - Oct 24 with 3107 viewsAntti_Heinola

Just back... on 19:00 - Oct 23 by Hunterhoop

No, I wasn't me campaigning for us to keep 433 a week ago. Check back to that big tactical piece o did in response to one of your knee jerks. I believe it commented about the wide players stating wide, stretching the pitch and not getting caught too far forward flat with the oppo FB. I've certainly posted hat before.

Saying all that, 433 certainly worked at home on Tues. in my earlier post I suggested one of the possible reasons it did on Tues and not here.

In terms of your first question, in essence, yes, it is as simple as that, with obvious complexities in the detail of how you execute it. But yes, there are a handful of core ways a team can be set up to attack, and only a handful (obviously the below are crude summaries):

- hit a big man early and get men around him, often a fellow nippy forward to get on the end of the flick ones
- play two up top, with a big target man showing short drawing the defence up so you can go over the top for a quick forward to run on to. Requires two up top. If the oppo sit deep your target man needs to be a threat and hold it up.
- play it up to a hold up man who gives it back to a 10/fellow forward to thread through balls to inverted runs made my wide players and the front man or have the ball thread through from the central midfielders to the no. 10 who sits in between the lines, and then opens up the oppo defence as above. - I think this is the closest to what JFH is trying to do with Chery as the no. 10.
- play with genuine wingers and width, with either two forwards to feed crosses to, or with a no. 9 and a no.10 and attacking central midfielder breaking late into the box. Key here is the genuine width and wide players dropping to get the ball to feet and running at their man to get crosses in from as close to the byline as possible, not receiving the ball back to goal with the oppo full back up their arse. When we have the ball our wingers are to "get wide" not get forward straight away. Do that after they've got the ball to feet.
- "tiki taka" intricate triangles, always keeping the ball to feet, constant movement from the front 6, lots of interchange and the front 4 being extremely fluid, all making runs in behind and across the back 4 trying to find holes. Requires great close control.

I think QPR fans have always preferred option 4. Warnock actually did 3, which I think is what JFH is trying. But Chery isn't as good as Adel was. Sylla and Polter aren't as good as Helguson, our wide players (with the exclusion of Shodipo and Pavel) aren't as good, or as natural wide, as Smith, Mackie and Routledge were, and, most importantly, we don't have a Faurlin threading beautiful passes through to a no. 10 between the lines.

Anyway, what I'm not sure of is that the players are fully clear on how we're meant to attack. Our personnel waver from having no wingers on the pitch to two from one game to another. Chery is sometimes at no. 10, sometimes shoved out wide. Luongo apart, Counsins, Borysiuk and Henry aren't strong ball players, so struggle to play incisive forward passes. We never play a quick man off a big man to go direct. And our full backs rarely overlap.

I think JFH needs to decide which of the methods above we should try to play and stick to it.

Problem is, you stick with 3 and it puts a huge onus on Luongo, Chery, Polter/Sylla, and you ask Pavel and Shodipo to change their game.

I want us to go with option 4, play to Pavel and Shodipo's strength, because I also think it players to Polter's and Sylla's strength: attacking crosses. It's also easier and more straightforward for players to understand their roles. Get it down, get it wide to feet, attack the full back or play 1-2s with the no. 10, to slip you in down the flank to the byline, whip it in and ask Polter/Sylla and a late running Luongo to attack it, or pull it back for Chery.

It does mean we become very reliant on Shodipo and Pavel, as Gladwin, Cousins aren't the real deal out there and Washington is still learning it.

And, look, JFH knows football better than me; he knows his players better than me. The issue is I don't think his players know what our standard "go-to" way of attacking is. I don't think the squad knows how to attack naturally yet/how JFH wants us to attack naturally. That is on him, not them. Whatever approach he picks, and sometimes you need to change it, your players in each position need to be clear on exactly what's required of that position in that approach. They don't play like they are clear, hence why we look ponderous and why Chery often remonstrates with a lack of movement.

JFH seems to want to get the message across clearly about pressing, and that was what he spoke of first when joining us. I'm yet to be convinced he has decided on a core identity with regards to how we attack, let alone get the players clear and well drilled on it.


Great post, cheers mate.
Agree, number three is closest to what we're doing. But with Sylla I think he wants to try and get wide players higher up to get more crosses in as that's where he's most dangerous.

Shodipo simply (and rightly) won't play every game. He's too young, too inexperienced and we need to be very careful, but hopefully he'll have a big impact this year!

Bare bones.

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Just back... on 11:03 - Oct 24 with 3073 viewsfrancisbowles

Just back... on 10:49 - Oct 24 by Antti_Heinola

Yep - just a year ago, Polti got similar treatment away at Birmingham didn't he - and now he's everyone's favourite player.
That's modern fans for you.


Polti shut them up by scoring a few goals and he had the good sense to ignore the criticism and get his head down and work hard after his little spat on twitter.

However, the criticism is still there with some and they can't wait for him to look awkward and lose possession in order to justify their original views. I can remember the bloke who used to sit in front of me slating Crouch near the end of that season when he looked awkward, totally ignoring the goals he had scored and the skill he sometimes showed with his feet, in that awful team.
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