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0-0, 1-1, 1-0, 2-0 (to Wed) would have all been justifiable. We simply didn't ask enough questions of them. Onouha and Calker were solid. Hamalinen and Gladwin really struggled, and Washington just wasn't sharp. Last 5, when we had Pavel and Shodipo on, we looked more threatening, but all too late. It just still doesn't look like JFH has found an identity for us in terms of "how" we attack. All a bit ad hoc/ hopeful. Had enough of the ball. But didn't do enough with it.
He played the same 4-3-3 system today btw. Gladwin in for Cousins, but we got pegged back, being the away side and that system meant we had little pace to attack with. It's gives us men forward, and at home may work, when teams sit deep, but I really think both Pavel and Shodipo need to play away from home. Their width and pace give us an outlet.
Gladwin really offered next to nothing on or off the ball. That's not me trying to find a boo boy or anything, he just didn't look like a Championship (or League 1) footballer.
The ref also played 15 seconds short of the minimum extra time, with the ball flying off for a corner to us, at the time he blew, which waa annoying.
Gladwin has made 12 appearances at Championship level in his entire career. That includes just six starts for QPR. Quite what he's managed to do in that time to justify the abuse, or even people saying "the signs don't look good" I don't know. This rush to write players off is mystifying to me.
Clive, I think there is an important fine line you, and others, aren't distinguishing between.
Obviously 12 games for a player is almost too soon to judge definitely whether someone is or isn't good enough. But it's not too soon to give an assessment that "the signs don't look good". All that is saying is that, so far, he hasn't played well. What's wrong with that? It's widely agreed, evidence based and isn't permanently writing him off.
Equally, "cricticism" and "abuse" are too very different things. I cringed at the group of lads to my left screaming and shouting abuse at Polter at Birmingham last year AND at Gladwin on Saturday.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with assessing and criticising his performance, if done in a reasonable way. His performance wasn't good enough for a Championship footballer: he was slow, ponderous in possession, had several poor touches which lost possession and barely got close enough to put a tackle in. He was a passenger.
Does that mean he will definitely be a failure? Of course, not. I hope he does just what Polter did!
However, based on his performances so far, I've, personally, seen next to nothing which makes me think he's a footballer. So have lots of fans. Screaming abuse at him is obviously a stupid, self indulgent and unproductive way to go about things. But it doesn't make the diagnosis wrong.
Importance to distinguish.
That's no "rush to write him off"; it's just assessing his performances and contribution to date. 12 games is very different to 45 minutes.
I think Hunter's OP just about sums it up perfectly for me, agree with most of it bar it being a boring game. Thought it was reasonably entertaining all round, took my 11 year old daughter to her first away match and she enjoyed it if that's any kind of barometer! Anyway it really could have gone either way in the end, it was REALLY tight. Pavel and Shodipo made the world of difference when they came on but yes prior to that we created very little and hadn't really looked dangerous at all..... but at the same time not looked particularly vulnerable either. Still encouraging signs with our back four, fairly solid and our combative work in midfield was excellent, Ariel and especially Luongo (MOM for me) looked a good partnership. Lastly I was buoyed by our support for once as other than a few cockwombles sat somewhere behind me slating Gladwin every time he got anywhere near the ball and chanting 'you don't know what you're doing' when Sylla was replaced by Polter most stayed to applaud the team off for their efforts and were very encouraging throughout. if nothing else I really do think we can lay to rest any lingering 'they don't care' doubts. Most on here appeared to want a team who were proud to wear the Hoops, well we've got one now.
On the 'clear coherent way to attack' one big problem we had earlier in the season was the complete lack of attacking ideas (low point Newcastle at home). It felt like we were so focused on pressing that we had forgotten what to do when we actually had the ball. The lack of ideas was shown by the tendency to whack the ball forward, which was particularly futile when Washington was on his own up front.
Fulham away, despite the crazy game that it was, at least showed we had some attacking ideas.
The Wszołek goal against Reading was the product of a moment of individual brilliance and vision from Shodipo. Do we need such moments of individual brilliance? Of course we do, especially in tight games, but we can't rely on them consistently for goals. Neither can we rely on Polter getting pushed from behind in the penalty area.
We need a system, a production line of goals, something to revert to especially when things aren't going well. From what Hunterhoop described Chery and Luongo didn't have anyone to pass (so looked short of ideas), which implies that the rest of the team were not moving off the ball and instead were uncertain about what they should have been doing and were just waiting for something to happen.
But in the end, is this stuff you're watching really worth 30 quid a pop ?
I've been going down there for 50 years now, and I honestly cannot remember when the pounds to entertainment ratio was so low.
i'm not just pining this on my team, takes two to tango and the emphasis on stifling the game is, for me, killing football.
I didn't go Saturday, it sounds as though it could have gone either way.
I get your point Steve. For the first time ever I had a ticket for a game (Sunderland) and couldn't be arsed to go - the fact that it was £6.70 also has a reverse effect!
Going slightly off topic, does anyone think there is any merit in awarding 4 points for an away win? 0-0 games - no team gets any points and all fans attending get a full refund...
I was joking on the second suggestion.
"Thank you for supporting Queens Park Rangers Steep Staircase"... and I thought I'd signed up for a rollercoaster.
On the 'clear coherent way to attack' one big problem we had earlier in the season was the complete lack of attacking ideas (low point Newcastle at home). It felt like we were so focused on pressing that we had forgotten what to do when we actually had the ball. The lack of ideas was shown by the tendency to whack the ball forward, which was particularly futile when Washington was on his own up front.
Fulham away, despite the crazy game that it was, at least showed we had some attacking ideas.
The Wszołek goal against Reading was the product of a moment of individual brilliance and vision from Shodipo. Do we need such moments of individual brilliance? Of course we do, especially in tight games, but we can't rely on them consistently for goals. Neither can we rely on Polter getting pushed from behind in the penalty area.
We need a system, a production line of goals, something to revert to especially when things aren't going well. From what Hunterhoop described Chery and Luongo didn't have anyone to pass (so looked short of ideas), which implies that the rest of the team were not moving off the ball and instead were uncertain about what they should have been doing and were just waiting for something to happen.
That paragraph is exactly it, Tactical. We and the players need a clear, "go-to" way of us attacking and getting the ball in the box that they all know, understand, and understand their role in such an approach. I'm not sure we have that yet. JFH's main priority for me should be to decide on one and get it ingrained. Frankly, I'm not that fussed what it is, and will support whatever approach he chooses, but we do need to have a clear approach. I don't think we do at the minute.
Clive, I think there is an important fine line you, and others, aren't distinguishing between.
Obviously 12 games for a player is almost too soon to judge definitely whether someone is or isn't good enough. But it's not too soon to give an assessment that "the signs don't look good". All that is saying is that, so far, he hasn't played well. What's wrong with that? It's widely agreed, evidence based and isn't permanently writing him off.
Equally, "cricticism" and "abuse" are too very different things. I cringed at the group of lads to my left screaming and shouting abuse at Polter at Birmingham last year AND at Gladwin on Saturday.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with assessing and criticising his performance, if done in a reasonable way. His performance wasn't good enough for a Championship footballer: he was slow, ponderous in possession, had several poor touches which lost possession and barely got close enough to put a tackle in. He was a passenger.
Does that mean he will definitely be a failure? Of course, not. I hope he does just what Polter did!
However, based on his performances so far, I've, personally, seen next to nothing which makes me think he's a footballer. So have lots of fans. Screaming abuse at him is obviously a stupid, self indulgent and unproductive way to go about things. But it doesn't make the diagnosis wrong.
Importance to distinguish.
That's no "rush to write him off"; it's just assessing his performances and contribution to date. 12 games is very different to 45 minutes.
No I agree with all of that, I just think far too many people go the other side of that line far too quickly with players.
No I agree with all of that, I just think far too many people go the other side of that line far too quickly with players.
The Great Gladwin Debate.
Tom Hunter ebony versuses Clive Whittingham ivory
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
I really can't understand why it's not 1 pt for draw, 2 pts for a score draw and 3 pts for a win.
Think how many games would end in score draws because both teams are happy with two points. Everyone would win the pools but all you'd get would be your stake back!
I didn't go Saturday, it sounds as though it could have gone either way.
I get your point Steve. For the first time ever I had a ticket for a game (Sunderland) and couldn't be arsed to go - the fact that it was £6.70 also has a reverse effect!
Going slightly off topic, does anyone think there is any merit in awarding 4 points for an away win? 0-0 games - no team gets any points and all fans attending get a full refund...
I was joking on the second suggestion.
I will certainly agree that a 0-0 draw receives no points, it would make teams more attack minded knowing that to obtain points they have to score. More exciting for the paying public as well.
No I agree with all of that, I just think far too many people go the other side of that line far too quickly with players.
Maybe, but on this occasion Hunter didn't cross that line and I don't think I did either. I haven't written him off, just stated that the signs do not look good. They don't, he has been in the bottom two or three worst performances in the team each time I have seen him.
Even against Leeds, when everyone performed well, he (and QPR) were extremely lucky that he wasn't sent off just before being taken off. He was the worst player on the pitch up to that point.
Still, it's all just my opinion, sorry for having one!
Think how many games would end in score draws because both teams are happy with two points. Everyone would win the pools but all you'd get would be your stake back!
Someone would have to score the first goal. After that all plans go out the window.
Maybe, but on this occasion Hunter didn't cross that line and I don't think I did either. I haven't written him off, just stated that the signs do not look good. They don't, he has been in the bottom two or three worst performances in the team each time I have seen him.
Even against Leeds, when everyone performed well, he (and QPR) were extremely lucky that he wasn't sent off just before being taken off. He was the worst player on the pitch up to that point.
Still, it's all just my opinion, sorry for having one!
Come on now, Dav. Let's all have a hug and a nice, entertaining 3-0 win against Brentford. Everyone has a lovely Friday evening and jot filled Saturday, as a result. Clive then has no numpties spouting aggressive nonsense on his and LFW's Twitter and the world is a better place.
On the 'clear coherent way to attack', we definitely need that, but I was talking as though the opposition didn't exist, so I will make a couple of qualifications...
1. Other teams in the division (e.g. Reading) also look pretty short of attacking ideas. 2. There are games where you do have to defend and chances to attack will inevitably be few and far between.
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