By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
..posted by a good friend of mine on Facebook, thought I'd share it on here. He's a former professional footballer (briefly for Birmingham City) and a former copper, working mainly out of Camden police station. He grew up in Kilburn/Queens Park. He's now a writer (among other things).
Worth a read I think, hope you enjoy, whether you agree with him or not, even when he veers off-topic...
"Thoughts of the Week (part 1)
Let’s start with a subheading. ‘Dear, oh dear Diane Abbot!’
In the upcoming General Election campaign and apart from the ‘Leader’ (no, not Gary Glitter) no one is more important for the Labour Party campaign than the Shadow Home Secretary. Why’s this? You ask. The reason is obvious: Theresa May —the strong woman, Ms subtle, but steely - was the former Home Secretary. A position which she used to inflict near terminal ravages of the nation’s police forces. Under her auspices we saw numbers cut, benefits cut and police stations closed willy-nilly to cash in, short-term, on the booming (especially in London) property market.
The short-sightedness of this policy is astounding. No matter the so-called austerity budget (which only seems to apply to the working classes, while the privileged elite continue to live the life of Riley) the question must be asked as to what will happen when there’s some serious social unrest — and you can feel it stirring. Remember 2011 when the riots broke out? We had anarchy and nihilism on the streets and the police force didn’t cope with it at all. Instead we had a grand mopping up campaign. Suddenly all those poor silly students who had been demonised as hard-core criminals after they smashed the windows of the Tory HQ — and received ridiculously harsh prison sentences for what were in the main first offences - were kicked out of the pokey and replaced by the new batch of rioters. The Criminal Justice system ground to a halt, the prison’s overflowed. The courts were as ram-jam packed as a back-in-the-day David Rodigan dance. In response what did the great Theresa May do? She further decimated the police force. She did the same to the prison service. The vaunted Border Force, our first defence, is comically short of manpower and morale as they attempt to hire staff on Mickey-Mouse contracts. Labour should be slaughtering Theresa May on what she’s done. Instead we got that car crash of an interview on LBC.
To be honest I resisted calls to listen to it for a time. Some of my more right-leaning pals were raving about it, but I thought they were overreacting due to a general contempt for the Hackney MP. I was wrong. When I actually got round to listening to it I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was stunningly incompetent, mind-blowingly nonsensical, embarrassing and shocking. Is this the Shadow Home Secretary who’s going to lead the challenge to Theresa May’s record? She should have stood down immediately and if not the great leader should have forced her hand, no matter past rendezvous in the sack. Of course it didn’t happen and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn has no hope in this election. What a shame it all is because there are loads of issues that they should be taking the government to task on. Just look at that bumbling Tommy Cooper impersonator of a Foreign Secretary, a million miles removed from a serious statesman: Mr Retraction — an embarrassment to the nation.
I’m voting Labour in the coming election, but not for Jeremy, more for the thought of the millions of people who are going to suffer under the coming five years of Tory rule: the working men and women who haven’t seen their wages rise, in real terms, for the last thirty years, while the fat cats, sharks and speculators are minted; the students starting out life saddled with debt; the millions who’ll never be able to afford a home; and in honour of the National Health Service, soon to be dismantled further, but remaining the brightest light in the nation’s modern history. What a rotten, unfair and unbalanced society we’ve become.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:27 - May 27 by QPR_John
"There have been media releases today from the IS media outlet, Dabiq, where they expressly say it's nothing to do with foreign policy it is about subjugating non Muslims to the rule of the Koran. "
The above is the post that started this particular conversation. All I ask is why should IS undermine Corbyn's view surely it is in IS's interest to blame our foreign policy. It is pretty poor propaganda if they are supporting the view many in the west hold of them.
"All I ask is why should IS undermine Corbyn's view surely it is in IS's interest to blame our foreign policy."
Because if our foreign policy is *one of* the drivers of recruitment for Islamic terrorism and extremism, then changing it is the absolute last thing IS want.
A foreign policy that involves the west dropping bombs in Muslim countries is absolutely fine by them. All their propaganda efforts are designed to goad the west into violent confrontation, as all their propaganda has been since they first reared their ugly heads.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:48 - May 27 by DannytheR
"All I ask is why should IS undermine Corbyn's view surely it is in IS's interest to blame our foreign policy."
Because if our foreign policy is *one of* the drivers of recruitment for Islamic terrorism and extremism, then changing it is the absolute last thing IS want.
A foreign policy that involves the west dropping bombs in Muslim countries is absolutely fine by them. All their propaganda efforts are designed to goad the west into violent confrontation, as all their propaganda has been since they first reared their ugly heads.
One of the reasons that IS exist to make statements about how their actions are not influenced by western foreign policy is because of western foreign policy.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:48 - May 27 by DannytheR
"All I ask is why should IS undermine Corbyn's view surely it is in IS's interest to blame our foreign policy."
Because if our foreign policy is *one of* the drivers of recruitment for Islamic terrorism and extremism, then changing it is the absolute last thing IS want.
A foreign policy that involves the west dropping bombs in Muslim countries is absolutely fine by them. All their propaganda efforts are designed to goad the west into violent confrontation, as all their propaganda has been since they first reared their ugly heads.
"Because if our foreign policy is *one of* the drivers of recruitment for Islamic terrorism and extremism, then changing it is the absolute last thing IS want. "
You make a valid point but does that mean the second part of their statement is also untrue
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:13 - May 27 with 2291 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:21 - May 27 by AgedR
What Corbyn said wasn't in the least bit controversial and is consistent with anyone who actually thinks about the issues, including the intelligence services. Of course it is not the only determining factor, but, I don't think anyone is saying this.
The timing is also entirely appropriate. When better to review our policy towards the threat of terror than this week (unless perhaps tragically last week)?
The west need for fossil fuels and the connecting emergence of fanatical wahabist death cultist Saudi Arabia links to the emergence of an evangelical medievalist Islam group. But so do other foreign policy acts from the West; supporting the mujahideen in Afghanistan, the rebels in Iraq, Libya, Syria as part of the so called Arab spring. It is the law of unintended consequences.
Many of you may have see Alan Curtis' film, Hypernormalisation. If not, I'd strongly recommend it. Curtis is no mad Marxist or crazy libertarian, so should appeal to all political persuasions. You don't have to agree with him, but, it's a fascinating viewpoint.
I suppose my point is that the issue is nuanced and Corbyn is merely acknowledging this.
The reaction of the Tories, surprisingly like much of their election campaign, has been simplistic, opportunistic and weak. It also will not help in the critical analysis of how best to defend the UK from this threat.
Makes a lot of sense and explains Kissingers influence. Grim that the Assads still rule over Syria though, all those decades on.
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:17 - May 27 with 2287 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:35 - May 27 by QPR_John
"Because if our foreign policy is *one of* the drivers of recruitment for Islamic terrorism and extremism, then changing it is the absolute last thing IS want. "
You make a valid point but does that mean the second part of their statement is also untrue
It doesn't really matter as we can't effect that can we? Can't stop people having an ambition however opposed to it you are. We can reduce their opportunities to recruit and in doing so reduce their power to spread fear.
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:51 - May 27 with 2252 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:17 - May 27 by QPR_Jim
It doesn't really matter as we can't effect that can we? Can't stop people having an ambition however opposed to it you are. We can reduce their opportunities to recruit and in doing so reduce their power to spread fear.
So in reality our foreign policy is irrelevant in their desire to kill children it just affords them the manpower. So the choice is attack them but take the risk of giving them the propaganda to radicalise more people or leave them alone in these areas and hence by conquest radicalise more people. Sort of Hobson's choice
[Post edited 27 May 2017 20:54]
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 21:02 - May 27 with 2244 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:51 - May 27 by QPR_John
So in reality our foreign policy is irrelevant in their desire to kill children it just affords them the manpower. So the choice is attack them but take the risk of giving them the propaganda to radicalise more people or leave them alone in these areas and hence by conquest radicalise more people. Sort of Hobson's choice
[Post edited 27 May 2017 20:54]
Perhaps but we'll have less troops at risk, lower costs for defense, more money for intelligence services and boarder control and overall less risk on our streets as fewer British Muslims will be susceptible to radicalisation.
1
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:10 - May 27 with 2196 views
Corbyn is a two faced lying cûnt. He regularly met with Gerry Adams during the troubles and Adams despite his claims was IRA. And as far as our foreign policy is concerned he will side with anyone who is anti-British just to protect his vote, especially a certain religious community. Daesh, for which we should call those murderous cûnts were always a situation in waiting and it isn't UK or US or anyone's foreign policy that has seen their rise, Muslim fundementalism has always been around and with the advent of the internet and social media it has just become a hell of a lot easier to spread. Will Corbyn the cûnt blame the sickening murder of 20 Coptic Christian's in Egypt yesterday on U.K. foreign policy? This to me proves that Daesh would have always have happened. They have one intention and that is to put the world back to the Middle Ages, under some heneous law that makes it ok to murder gays, to rape women and children and to stone women to death. They are low life scum and as far as I am concerned UK foreign policy should now include bombing the fûck out of them, interning all returnees from Libya and Syria and the imprisonment of anyone found viewing the sick shît that is posted on social media sites. And for the final part relating to social media, tell them bluntly that unless they monitor their sites properly then fine them the amounts that they should be paying in taxes. We have been to soft with all of this shît for too long and it is about time we got our act together and the last thing we want is some terrorist apologist as PM.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:10 - May 27 by DWQPR
Corbyn is a two faced lying cûnt. He regularly met with Gerry Adams during the troubles and Adams despite his claims was IRA. And as far as our foreign policy is concerned he will side with anyone who is anti-British just to protect his vote, especially a certain religious community. Daesh, for which we should call those murderous cûnts were always a situation in waiting and it isn't UK or US or anyone's foreign policy that has seen their rise, Muslim fundementalism has always been around and with the advent of the internet and social media it has just become a hell of a lot easier to spread. Will Corbyn the cûnt blame the sickening murder of 20 Coptic Christian's in Egypt yesterday on U.K. foreign policy? This to me proves that Daesh would have always have happened. They have one intention and that is to put the world back to the Middle Ages, under some heneous law that makes it ok to murder gays, to rape women and children and to stone women to death. They are low life scum and as far as I am concerned UK foreign policy should now include bombing the fûck out of them, interning all returnees from Libya and Syria and the imprisonment of anyone found viewing the sick shît that is posted on social media sites. And for the final part relating to social media, tell them bluntly that unless they monitor their sites properly then fine them the amounts that they should be paying in taxes. We have been to soft with all of this shît for too long and it is about time we got our act together and the last thing we want is some terrorist apologist as PM.
How do you think peace could have been negotiated without meeting high ranking IRA members? Corbyn has done little that Tories haven't done, he's just considerably more open. Hate him all you want but he's not two-faced- certainly far less so than Remainer May going back on NI rises and anything in her manifesto that isn't popular.
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:34 - May 27 with 2158 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:10 - May 27 by DWQPR
Corbyn is a two faced lying cûnt. He regularly met with Gerry Adams during the troubles and Adams despite his claims was IRA. And as far as our foreign policy is concerned he will side with anyone who is anti-British just to protect his vote, especially a certain religious community. Daesh, for which we should call those murderous cûnts were always a situation in waiting and it isn't UK or US or anyone's foreign policy that has seen their rise, Muslim fundementalism has always been around and with the advent of the internet and social media it has just become a hell of a lot easier to spread. Will Corbyn the cûnt blame the sickening murder of 20 Coptic Christian's in Egypt yesterday on U.K. foreign policy? This to me proves that Daesh would have always have happened. They have one intention and that is to put the world back to the Middle Ages, under some heneous law that makes it ok to murder gays, to rape women and children and to stone women to death. They are low life scum and as far as I am concerned UK foreign policy should now include bombing the fûck out of them, interning all returnees from Libya and Syria and the imprisonment of anyone found viewing the sick shît that is posted on social media sites. And for the final part relating to social media, tell them bluntly that unless they monitor their sites properly then fine them the amounts that they should be paying in taxes. We have been to soft with all of this shît for too long and it is about time we got our act together and the last thing we want is some terrorist apologist as PM.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:10 - May 27 by DWQPR
Corbyn is a two faced lying cûnt. He regularly met with Gerry Adams during the troubles and Adams despite his claims was IRA. And as far as our foreign policy is concerned he will side with anyone who is anti-British just to protect his vote, especially a certain religious community. Daesh, for which we should call those murderous cûnts were always a situation in waiting and it isn't UK or US or anyone's foreign policy that has seen their rise, Muslim fundementalism has always been around and with the advent of the internet and social media it has just become a hell of a lot easier to spread. Will Corbyn the cûnt blame the sickening murder of 20 Coptic Christian's in Egypt yesterday on U.K. foreign policy? This to me proves that Daesh would have always have happened. They have one intention and that is to put the world back to the Middle Ages, under some heneous law that makes it ok to murder gays, to rape women and children and to stone women to death. They are low life scum and as far as I am concerned UK foreign policy should now include bombing the fûck out of them, interning all returnees from Libya and Syria and the imprisonment of anyone found viewing the sick shît that is posted on social media sites. And for the final part relating to social media, tell them bluntly that unless they monitor their sites properly then fine them the amounts that they should be paying in taxes. We have been to soft with all of this shît for too long and it is about time we got our act together and the last thing we want is some terrorist apologist as PM.
If you have a couple of hours spare, watch Hypernormalisation, the film I refer to earlier in the thread. As I say, it's not made by a loony lefty (or libtard) as I believe they are now ironically referred to.
I'd be interested in your views.
Or you can just tell me to mind my own business. Don't mind really.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 22:26 - May 27 by Watford_Ranger
How do you think peace could have been negotiated without meeting high ranking IRA members? Corbyn has done little that Tories haven't done, he's just considerably more open. Hate him all you want but he's not two-faced- certainly far less so than Remainer May going back on NI rises and anything in her manifesto that isn't popular.
Corbyn never tried to negotiate peace, ask Seamus Fallon from the SDLP. He licked the arse of Adams & McGuinness hoping the IRA would bomb us all into submission. If he was that interested in peace, how many times did he meet with the unionists? Truth is then he was a no mark who thought it was cool to side with the bad boys. He might have some half decent policies, but the truth is he is out of his depth running the country. The PLP think so and anyone with a brain knows that if we put him in front of anyone internationally with half a brain they will eat him alive. As for Abbott, Thornberry & MacDonnell, is that the best he has backing him up? .............
1
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 01:47 - May 28 with 2047 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:35 - May 27 by QPR_John
"Because if our foreign policy is *one of* the drivers of recruitment for Islamic terrorism and extremism, then changing it is the absolute last thing IS want. "
You make a valid point but does that mean the second part of their statement is also untrue
Which, the bit about them wanting to subjugate the non-believer? No, of course, subjugation of the non-believer is what they're all about. Although it's worth remembering that they include in that the vast number of Muslims who aren't strict enough to satisfy their interpretation of Islam. Despite the atrocities visited on the Yazidi and western captives, the vast majority of people killed by ISIS have been other Muslims.
Their initial goal was to take as much land in Syria and Iraq as possible, aided in part by western recruits to who they happily painted western foreign policy and society in general as being indiscriminately anti-Muslim. Now, with the Iraqi Army (more Muslims) having actually "got tough" with them on the ground, they've lost huge amounts of territory and so are now trying to remain relevant with terrorist atrocities in the west. For that, again, it's very useful to be able to sweet talk the gullible and give the psychopathic a pretext by pointing out that the west *does* bomb Muslim countries and often ends up killing civilians in the process.
But no matter how often this pattern is repeated, there's a certain sort of person loudly pressuring politicians into short-sighted and self indulgent action in exchange for votes — people who have got no closer to armed conflict themselves than reading Andy McNab books in Surrey, but who want to be seen as hard men *more* outraged by little girls getting blown up than anyone else and demanding "toughness" at all costs.
For instance, I just read on here a demand that we "bomb the fück out of" ISIS - when they are very deliberately embedded among the civilian population in the territory they still control. I think it was Mr Sheen who posts here who posted a link to a first hand account of life in Mosul which is sadly well worth reading, partly because of the nightmarish detail about what those cnts are doing there but also it because it mentions how physically they're now using half a million ordinary people (yes, Muslims again) as human shields. *
You don't need to be a military strategist to see that dropping bombs on those civilians to hopefully get a few ISIS into the bargain is not only questionable morally, but spectacularly thick and counter productive. You're not going to thank American and Britain for "liberating" you if their bombs have killed your whole family in the process. You may even want to bomb them back.
* Mr Sheen's link is also worth reading because it makes clear how much ISIS rely for training and manpower on the Chechnyans, which it makes all the more unfortunate we're now palling up to a US president who appears to be in the pocket of Putin, who in turn sponsors the Chechnyan regime.
[Post edited 28 May 2017 1:57]
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 05:22 - May 28 with 1988 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:08 - May 27 by 1BobbyHazell
Essex, you're comfortably my favourite right winger on here and always come across as thoughtful and reasonable. So for you to be joining the ridiculous and reductive 'Jezza and his supporters say terrorism is all our fault' crew is a bit disappointing. Read his actual words on the subject.
There has to be room for an intelligent discussion around all the factors that lead to violence. To willfully ignore our own wrong doings is doing our future safety no good at all.
Ok , I have read it .
I nothing like how it has been reported , its measured and thoughtful and on the face of it statesmanlike . I just dont buy it .
It is one thing to say that sometimes you may have to speak to people that you disagree with but he has got too close , on the wrong occasions and too many times with people who abandoned the discourse that he speaks of and turned to violence. When he attended these meetings he had no influence on policy , he couldnt deliver anything . IMO he was showing solidarity full stop .
I think you can expect a few examples of these to be dug out by the Tory press over the next week . I hope not .
I would rather the spotlight was turned back to the economy that where time after time Labour have proved themselves to have no understanding of how it works . They have never understood that to spend a pound you have to earn it first .
My other attack point would be the dis unity in the PLP .IMO he simply doesnt have enough talented people who share his Marxist views to form a cohesive stable government . He only survived a huge no confidence vote a year or so ago
The polls are showing that the gap is closing , all to play for ........
1
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:11 - May 28 with 1903 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 05:22 - May 28 by essextaxiboy
Ok , I have read it .
I nothing like how it has been reported , its measured and thoughtful and on the face of it statesmanlike . I just dont buy it .
It is one thing to say that sometimes you may have to speak to people that you disagree with but he has got too close , on the wrong occasions and too many times with people who abandoned the discourse that he speaks of and turned to violence. When he attended these meetings he had no influence on policy , he couldnt deliver anything . IMO he was showing solidarity full stop .
I think you can expect a few examples of these to be dug out by the Tory press over the next week . I hope not .
I would rather the spotlight was turned back to the economy that where time after time Labour have proved themselves to have no understanding of how it works . They have never understood that to spend a pound you have to earn it first .
My other attack point would be the dis unity in the PLP .IMO he simply doesnt have enough talented people who share his Marxist views to form a cohesive stable government . He only survived a huge no confidence vote a year or so ago
The polls are showing that the gap is closing , all to play for ........
I appreciate the honesty of your second paragraph and the acknowledgement of what a lot of Corbyn supporters experience in terms of seeing his often admirable and 'statesmanlike' words, stance and thoughtfulness being twisted and willfully misrepresented by the media.
As you say, you don't buy it and you choose to believe that when he met wIth Republicans he was showing solidarity to violence as opposed to having a discourse with those he felt would be an important part of a much needed peace process. For me, the things I have read and heard him say over the years lead me to believe he is a man who seeks the peaceful options. I appreciate if you choose a different conclusion, taking any politician at face value is not a decision that should be taken lightly!
I would suggest that if you heard and read more unfiltered words and speeches of his, as opposed to through the lens of a media that even you observed misrepresent his words, you would have more effective evidence to form your opinion.
The economy...Well I'd like it if we were all looking at deeper fundamental questions about the global economy; who truly controls it, in whose interests it is being run and manipulated, the direction they are currently taking it/us, the desperate, with ever increasing cost to human life, impossible pursuit of eternal growth in order to keep spinning the plates and propping up the illusionary system of money as debt which we are, globally, being told means there is less for 'us' while strangely the super rich seem to be increasing their wealth by record amounts year upon year leading to proclamations that the great pagan god 'The Economy' is telling us that we can no longer look after our health care, our youth, our elderly, our disabled or our just generally unfortunate but we can have worst working conditions, lower real wages, zero hours contracts, food banks, etc etc. But it seems mostly we're not ready to look to those right at the top just yet so for the moment we will have to scramble around in the shit and pretend that leadership that isnt about any real fundamental change can actually make much of a difference to this current global economic direction.
So in light of that could you please explain to me what the Tories have done so well since they came into power with the economy, because from where I'm standing a lot of things seem to be turning to sh1t in terms of how we look after ourselves, whilst the much vaunted austerity coincided with the debt increasing more and more. What is so credible about Tory economic policy? And when will the general populace, as opposed to the super rich, be seeing the benefit of this supposed good work? Genuine question, apologies for being a bit sarky.
As for the blairites in the PLP, these are people so admirable that their last leader was Ed f*cking Miliband. When I look at the likes of Fox and Johnson etc I don't think 'what a talented cabinet, our future is safe, they'll do what's best for us'.
Peace x
2
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:44 - May 28 with 1755 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 05:22 - May 28 by essextaxiboy
Ok , I have read it .
I nothing like how it has been reported , its measured and thoughtful and on the face of it statesmanlike . I just dont buy it .
It is one thing to say that sometimes you may have to speak to people that you disagree with but he has got too close , on the wrong occasions and too many times with people who abandoned the discourse that he speaks of and turned to violence. When he attended these meetings he had no influence on policy , he couldnt deliver anything . IMO he was showing solidarity full stop .
I think you can expect a few examples of these to be dug out by the Tory press over the next week . I hope not .
I would rather the spotlight was turned back to the economy that where time after time Labour have proved themselves to have no understanding of how it works . They have never understood that to spend a pound you have to earn it first .
My other attack point would be the dis unity in the PLP .IMO he simply doesnt have enough talented people who share his Marxist views to form a cohesive stable government . He only survived a huge no confidence vote a year or so ago
The polls are showing that the gap is closing , all to play for ........
Really you have to earn a pound to spend a pound? Never heard of gearing then, most companies do it. I know borrowing is a dirty word in the current world but it really depends on what you're borrowing for. If your borrowing for a project which will hopefully provide a return, like a infrastructure project or nationalising a profit making industry, that's an investment. If you're borrowing to pay for the nhs, then clearly you need to raise taxes. If you needed a taxi but couldn't afford it outright it would make perfect sense to borrow to buy it and pay off the loan with the money made from working in it. If you ever did find yourself in that position you'd wish you could borrow at the same rate as the government.
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:53 - May 28 with 1744 views
"I would rather the spotlight was turned back to the economy that where time after time Labour have proved themselves to have no understanding of how it works . [b[They have never understood that to spend a pound you have to earn it first . "
completely inaccurate, most of the world would still be hunting rabbits and eating berries if it was true.
borrowing is effective provided there is an identified return on investment which can be reasonably achieved
Tory policy, push shale gas fracking and nuclear like hinkley B for short term gain to the treasury and big profits for corporations and its shareholders whilst leaving local councils and individuals plus the NHS to deal with the environmental damage and clean up for decades to come plus high energy costs (guaranteed for decades regardless of market forces in the case of Hinkley)
Labour, invest more in renewable energy and nationalise energy and utility companies, more expense to the country in the short term but not only stops profits leaving the country every time you run your tap or switch on your lights but will eventually lead to a much cleaner environment for our children and future generations and also lower long term energy costs and profits that can be reinvested in this countries infrastructure and services.
I know which of these seems reasonable and which seems not only stark raving mad from a national perspective but also ultimately suicidal.
[Post edited 28 May 2017 10:55]
1
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:55 - May 28 with 1742 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:11 - May 28 by 1BobbyHazell
I appreciate the honesty of your second paragraph and the acknowledgement of what a lot of Corbyn supporters experience in terms of seeing his often admirable and 'statesmanlike' words, stance and thoughtfulness being twisted and willfully misrepresented by the media.
As you say, you don't buy it and you choose to believe that when he met wIth Republicans he was showing solidarity to violence as opposed to having a discourse with those he felt would be an important part of a much needed peace process. For me, the things I have read and heard him say over the years lead me to believe he is a man who seeks the peaceful options. I appreciate if you choose a different conclusion, taking any politician at face value is not a decision that should be taken lightly!
I would suggest that if you heard and read more unfiltered words and speeches of his, as opposed to through the lens of a media that even you observed misrepresent his words, you would have more effective evidence to form your opinion.
The economy...Well I'd like it if we were all looking at deeper fundamental questions about the global economy; who truly controls it, in whose interests it is being run and manipulated, the direction they are currently taking it/us, the desperate, with ever increasing cost to human life, impossible pursuit of eternal growth in order to keep spinning the plates and propping up the illusionary system of money as debt which we are, globally, being told means there is less for 'us' while strangely the super rich seem to be increasing their wealth by record amounts year upon year leading to proclamations that the great pagan god 'The Economy' is telling us that we can no longer look after our health care, our youth, our elderly, our disabled or our just generally unfortunate but we can have worst working conditions, lower real wages, zero hours contracts, food banks, etc etc. But it seems mostly we're not ready to look to those right at the top just yet so for the moment we will have to scramble around in the shit and pretend that leadership that isnt about any real fundamental change can actually make much of a difference to this current global economic direction.
So in light of that could you please explain to me what the Tories have done so well since they came into power with the economy, because from where I'm standing a lot of things seem to be turning to sh1t in terms of how we look after ourselves, whilst the much vaunted austerity coincided with the debt increasing more and more. What is so credible about Tory economic policy? And when will the general populace, as opposed to the super rich, be seeing the benefit of this supposed good work? Genuine question, apologies for being a bit sarky.
As for the blairites in the PLP, these are people so admirable that their last leader was Ed f*cking Miliband. When I look at the likes of Fox and Johnson etc I don't think 'what a talented cabinet, our future is safe, they'll do what's best for us'.
Peace x
While you were writing this Diane Abbott was on Andrew Marr showing once again just how much the Left hate this country.
Why can't the Left have their policies but at the same time love their own country?
I know the usual suspects on here (not you) will put this down to jingoism but you're wasting your time thinking you'll get elected, the public won't stand for it.
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:21 - May 28 with 1710 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:44 - May 28 by QPR_Jim
Really you have to earn a pound to spend a pound? Never heard of gearing then, most companies do it. I know borrowing is a dirty word in the current world but it really depends on what you're borrowing for. If your borrowing for a project which will hopefully provide a return, like a infrastructure project or nationalising a profit making industry, that's an investment. If you're borrowing to pay for the nhs, then clearly you need to raise taxes. If you needed a taxi but couldn't afford it outright it would make perfect sense to borrow to buy it and pay off the loan with the money made from working in it. If you ever did find yourself in that position you'd wish you could borrow at the same rate as the government.
And those self same industries that Corbyn and his mates want to re-nationalise we're at the time of being sold off were a financial drain on the nation, losing money hand over foot, totally lacking from investment. So now the private sector has made them streamlined, upgraded, profitable it is time to renationalise only for them to once again become bloated, unprofitable, second rate and riddled with a workforce that will demand higher and higher wages which becomes a greater drain in the tax payer, inflation goes up, interest rates go up and everyone despite having more money becomes poorer. And as for Labours plans to renationalise the energy sector over a period of time by which they will introduce legislation that will effectively make it harder for the companies to trade thus seeing share prices fall to levels that make it cheaper for the government to repurchase, well, those with investments and pension funds, watch them tumble away, companies will certainly have second thoughts about investing in this country given that they will be watching what would amount to state sponsored economic terrorism, creating more unemployment and greater poverty. Corbyn and McDonnell have no interest in economic growth, they just want total control. They will say anything to grab power, free this, free that, etc. University places will be limited because the state will not be able to afford unlimited free tuition, houses will not be built at the rate they promise, it lacks land, skilled workers and materials. And as for security, just watch Lady Racist/Hypocrite/Liar/Terrorist Sympathiser in the Andrew Marr show this morning. She still refuses to condemn her own statements about the IRA. The bitch should be tried for treason.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:55 - May 28 by stevec
While you were writing this Diane Abbott was on Andrew Marr showing once again just how much the Left hate this country.
Why can't the Left have their policies but at the same time love their own country?
I know the usual suspects on here (not you) will put this down to jingoism but you're wasting your time thinking you'll get elected, the public won't stand for it.
At the risk of taking your insulting bullshit seriously....
Some people love their country by singing Ten German Bombers in European cities and throwing plastic chairs at foreign Cafe owners.
Some people love their country by bombing 50 shades of shit out of another one against all advice and low likelihood of success.
Some people love their country by getting on, paying their taxes and obeying the law in both spirit and letter.
[Post edited 28 May 2017 11:28]
2
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:36 - May 28 with 1689 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:55 - May 28 by stevec
While you were writing this Diane Abbott was on Andrew Marr showing once again just how much the Left hate this country.
Why can't the Left have their policies but at the same time love their own country?
I know the usual suspects on here (not you) will put this down to jingoism but you're wasting your time thinking you'll get elected, the public won't stand for it.
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:53 - May 28 by LythamR
"I would rather the spotlight was turned back to the economy that where time after time Labour have proved themselves to have no understanding of how it works . [b[They have never understood that to spend a pound you have to earn it first . "
completely inaccurate, most of the world would still be hunting rabbits and eating berries if it was true.
borrowing is effective provided there is an identified return on investment which can be reasonably achieved
Tory policy, push shale gas fracking and nuclear like hinkley B for short term gain to the treasury and big profits for corporations and its shareholders whilst leaving local councils and individuals plus the NHS to deal with the environmental damage and clean up for decades to come plus high energy costs (guaranteed for decades regardless of market forces in the case of Hinkley)
Labour, invest more in renewable energy and nationalise energy and utility companies, more expense to the country in the short term but not only stops profits leaving the country every time you run your tap or switch on your lights but will eventually lead to a much cleaner environment for our children and future generations and also lower long term energy costs and profits that can be reinvested in this countries infrastructure and services.
I know which of these seems reasonable and which seems not only stark raving mad from a national perspective but also ultimately suicidal.
[Post edited 28 May 2017 10:55]
You speak of borrowing as if there were no.payments to be made , no.interest however low to be paid .. How much do you think it will cost to take back those industries , to assume the pension liabilities and to invest in new technology . Then keep.costs.down for.the consumer who has no.alternative supplier
This on top of giving unions more power , how long do you think.it will take them to.realise that they have us over a barrel and start turning the lights out again ?
Labour does not understand money , how to make it , how to use it , how to save it
0
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:28 - May 28 with 1578 views
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:46 - May 28 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Some on here clearly don't think these terrorists have never heard of an eye for an eye and it's irrelevant anyway
Diane Abbot I don't like myself but some on here are talking at least as dumb as her, that are supporting tories
I give you Michael Fallon
[Post edited 28 May 2017 11:47]
A note on Fallon from our former man in Uzbekistan:
'I enjoyed, as much as anybody, Emily Thornberry’s ambush of Michael Fallon over his past cultivation of Assad. It is notable that the media themselves have interviewed Fallon continually during this election — he has been put out as May’s deflector shield — and no member of the media has ever mentioned it to him. Contrast that with the media’s treatment of Labour and SNP politicians.
I remember back further into Fallon’s past. 32 years ago, when I was the young occupant of the South Africa (Political) desk in the FCO, Fallon was a positive enthusiast for apartheid. Together with fellow St Andrews extreme Tory ideologue Michael Forsyth, Fallon was among those stiffening Thatcher in opposing all international sanctions against the apartheid regime, and opposing all British government interventions in individual cases of human rights abuse. I recall him arguing that apartheid South Africa had the "rule of law" and we should not interfere in its internal affairs.'
On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:44 - May 28 by QPR_Jim
Really you have to earn a pound to spend a pound? Never heard of gearing then, most companies do it. I know borrowing is a dirty word in the current world but it really depends on what you're borrowing for. If your borrowing for a project which will hopefully provide a return, like a infrastructure project or nationalising a profit making industry, that's an investment. If you're borrowing to pay for the nhs, then clearly you need to raise taxes. If you needed a taxi but couldn't afford it outright it would make perfect sense to borrow to buy it and pay off the loan with the money made from working in it. If you ever did find yourself in that position you'd wish you could borrow at the same rate as the government.
The government are not a company or a taxi driver , They dont have to.stand up a business case before borrowing , and of course it wont be their generation making the payments .
How long do you think.a.profitable business will stay that way state owned by Labour Until the first strike , when public sector mentality sets in , or when the management who planned the profitability realise.that their earnings are capped ..
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
