Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
FFP Decision Incoming?! 02:59 - May 17 with 13798 viewsFredManRave

Could be as soon as next week according to The Times article.

I'm apolitical so I'm not registered with The Times but if anybody is and could post the full article I'm sure we'd all appreciate it...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/qpr-set-for-verdict-over-fine-jh58rhz3d

Queens Park Rangers will learn this month whether they will face a fine of £57.9 million for a possible breach of spending limits in winning promotion to the Premier League three years ago.

The west London club’s dispute with the Football League will be heard by an arbitration panel, made up of three QCs, at a hearing next week.

If QPR win the argument, it could have a knock-on effect for Bournemouth and Leicester City, who have also challenged the League’s attempts to impose a fine on them for recording sizeable losses during their promotion to the top flight. Leicester claim the regulations were “unlawful”.

QPR, who were relegated after just one season back in the Premier League, challenged the legality and accounting principles of…

I've got the Power.
Poll: MOM from todays Teasing at Teesside?

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 13:24 - May 18 with 2629 viewsTGRRRSSS

If QPR (or Mitall and TF and co) are minded to they have the pockets deep enough to basically destroy the EFL and tie them up in expensive litigation for years - somebody mentioned Shaun Harvey, Bates and Leeds earlier, right there is something I'd have the lawyers all over and that's just for starters.

Then there are the other clubs in all sorts of debts I'd demand be investigated the list could drag through the courts for the next ten years and be small beer money to the people who own the club.

The fact they have changed the rules already is further avenue to drill through, the idea they could not take them to court over sums like 50 mill is naïve on the EFL#s part I'd imagine.

Far brighter people than me I am sure could drill holes further and that's before you start talking the type of lawyers the owners can afford.
[Post edited 18 May 2017 13:24]
1
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 13:38 - May 18 with 2596 viewsPunteR

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 13:24 - May 18 by TGRRRSSS

If QPR (or Mitall and TF and co) are minded to they have the pockets deep enough to basically destroy the EFL and tie them up in expensive litigation for years - somebody mentioned Shaun Harvey, Bates and Leeds earlier, right there is something I'd have the lawyers all over and that's just for starters.

Then there are the other clubs in all sorts of debts I'd demand be investigated the list could drag through the courts for the next ten years and be small beer money to the people who own the club.

The fact they have changed the rules already is further avenue to drill through, the idea they could not take them to court over sums like 50 mill is naïve on the EFL#s part I'd imagine.

Far brighter people than me I am sure could drill holes further and that's before you start talking the type of lawyers the owners can afford.
[Post edited 18 May 2017 13:24]


This is how I see it. It didn't stop them breaching the rules before. I still think this FFP thing is actually buying them time more than anything. They don't want to spend more on the club having lost £250 mill already.
That's my theory anyway.

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 13:44 - May 18 with 2585 viewsthemodfather

ffp is a joke.....we need the rules but fist get a balance within the game, why keep the top 6 as they are? there is no fair play.....take on chelsea, liverpool, arsenal,spurs,man city about spending, then try real madrid and barca!!!
harry summed it up when at press call v man utd and was asked about ffp and said , united have one player worth more than we spent on the team....(di maria!£60m or so, i think £75 m but note sure but huge sum)....fair play?
2
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 14:43 - May 18 with 2528 viewsR_from_afar

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 10:22 - May 18 by terryb

They have certainly changed the rules, but we are charged with breaking the rules that were in place at that time. Exactly the same as Leicester are.

Does nobody think that if the FL didn't think they had a good chance of winning, they would have accepted our offer to pay £8 million as a fine? At least, I think I've read that we made that offer.

Instead, they are still demanding that the full amount is paid. I can't see how this can be a gimme to Rangers.

I don't even see how the "writing off" of the loan would help. It didn't happen in the financial accounts that we are charged with & would appear to have saved us from action for the season 2015-16. It can't be used twice.


In one of my increasingly rare moments of inspiration, I have just remembered some news articles claiming that Rangers were likely to argue that the lex mitior principle should apply. That principle is commonly used in law suits and states that even if a case is historic, the current version of a law should apply.

RFA

"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."

1
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:11 - May 18 with 2457 viewsElHoop

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 14:43 - May 18 by R_from_afar

In one of my increasingly rare moments of inspiration, I have just remembered some news articles claiming that Rangers were likely to argue that the lex mitior principle should apply. That principle is commonly used in law suits and states that even if a case is historic, the current version of a law should apply.

RFA


Well it wouldn't take them very long to disagree over that would it? There must be more to it than that otherwise we'd have gone to arbitration long ago wouldn't we?
0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:39 - May 18 with 2412 viewsTacticalR


Air hostess clique

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:40 - May 18 with 2406 viewsFDC

I find it helps to consciously work on feeling pride in place of horror when looking at this...

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:52 - May 18 with 2389 viewsdanehoop

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:40 - May 18 by FDC

I find it helps to consciously work on feeling pride in place of horror when looking at this...



Except they wrote that off in a debt for equity swop.

Never knowingly understood

1
Login to get fewer ads

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:21 - May 18 with 2350 viewsFredManRave

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:40 - May 18 by FDC

I find it helps to consciously work on feeling pride in place of horror when looking at this...



Bloody Hell. Just how much are Benfica paying Taarabt_!

I've got the Power.
Poll: MOM from todays Teasing at Teesside?

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:33 - May 18 with 2321 viewsPunteR

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:40 - May 18 by FDC

I find it helps to consciously work on feeling pride in place of horror when looking at this...



Isn't Man United's debt non football related? Wasn't their debt added on when the yanks took over?

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:35 - May 18 with 2317 viewsCroydonCaptJack

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:52 - May 18 by danehoop

Except they wrote that off in a debt for equity swop.


Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!
2
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:36 - May 18 with 2312 viewskingo

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 14:43 - May 18 by R_from_afar

In one of my increasingly rare moments of inspiration, I have just remembered some news articles claiming that Rangers were likely to argue that the lex mitior principle should apply. That principle is commonly used in law suits and states that even if a case is historic, the current version of a law should apply.

RFA


Lex Mitior is definitely relevant and will be argued that the initial rule was unsound or why would they need to change it. It all depends on how much we owe under the new ruling.

RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat

1
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 17:05 - May 18 with 2235 viewsFDC

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:35 - May 18 by CroydonCaptJack

Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!


It was still accumulated in the first place though. That's an awful lot of spending for virtually fck all!

No particular axe to grind, just find those numbers eye-watering when put in that context.
0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 17:07 - May 18 with 2231 viewsFDC

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:33 - May 18 by PunteR

Isn't Man United's debt non football related? Wasn't their debt added on when the yanks took over?


I have literally no idea tbh
0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 18:31 - May 18 with 2143 viewsPinnerPaul

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:35 - May 18 by CroydonCaptJack

Please don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!


Like the sub standard last night who said we only had one more season of parachute payments left.
0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 08:11 - May 19 with 1979 viewsBlue_Castello

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:36 - May 18 by kingo

Lex Mitior is definitely relevant and will be argued that the initial rule was unsound or why would they need to change it. It all depends on how much we owe under the new ruling.


Exactly how I see it, the rules have been changed because the Football League decided they were unfair and unworkable, that gives our legal team all the ammunition they need to build a case that we should be judged by the current rules.
0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 08:22 - May 19 with 1956 viewsDorse

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:36 - May 18 by kingo

Lex Mitior is definitely relevant and will be argued that the initial rule was unsound or why would they need to change it. It all depends on how much we owe under the new ruling.


Meanwhile, in his underground lair, Lex Mitior and the Cohort of Chaos plan their next diabolical scheme.

'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'

1
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 08:56 - May 19 with 1915 viewsPlanetHonneywood

I wrote this on the dotorg in 2015. Basically, to comply with the FFP, would have required us to either drop our boxers in the transfer market and/or, rip up contracts and leave us liable for breach of contract claims. I think we'll get a spanking, because as has been pointed out above, we added to our debt somewhat by bringing in several players in season 2013/14, but talk of £58m is way off base.


Re: FPP fine only £8m - Post by JH » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:54 am

"...Its not clear to me whether your issue is really with the imposition of the FFP itself or, to the original formula that was to be used to calculate the fine for breaching it.

Its the latter issue which I have questioned and query the equitable nature of the formula that was to be used and which, according to the article in the Guardian, we have used in our negotiations with the Football League.

Remember, the purported fine is to be levied due to losses we sustained 'after' we were relegated from the Premiership season 2012/13. Having been relegated, we returned to the championship, with contractual commitments based on the presumption, that having survived our first season back in the premiership in 2011/12, we would do so again. Which clearly we did not.

And herein is the nub of the point, our assumption of second-season survival was reasonable and having made big contractual commitments, for us to immediately comply with the FFP in season 2013/14, would necessitate a fire sale of our players at knock down prices and/or ripping up contracts. In relation to the latter, we would not have any sort of defence to a breach of contract claim. Thus, as laws of this kind must also be equitable in nature, the FFP was not. Further, as the FFP formula is itself being reconsidered at UEFA level, there is also a legal principle that QPR can seek to be considered by the new principle, if it is to our advantage.

I do not believe as some have suggested, that this is a matter of European human rights law, because we are an economic entity and there are no obvious conventions of European law breached. There is a case that has been banging around the Belgian courts, although I am not sure where its at currently, but a trip to the European Court of Justice could take years to sort and I am not sure FFP itself will be struck down. But I certainly think for the reasons previously said, compliance with the FFP for teams relegated from the Premiership after two seasons and with huge contractual commitments, is inequitable and that's where the strength of our defence lays.

We've been run rather shamboliclly and knowing a fine would come for incurring quite spectacular losses, then if it is an £8m as reported. Grab it and run...'

'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Poll: Who should do the Birmingham Frederick?

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 09:21 - May 19 with 1895 viewsTW_R

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 11:26 - May 17 by BazzaInTheLoft

My question is, how do we pin it all on Les?


What I want to know is - what does Les actually do?
0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 10:31 - May 19 with 1861 viewsTacticalR

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 16:33 - May 18 by PunteR

Isn't Man United's debt non football related? Wasn't their debt added on when the yanks took over?


The takeover was leveraged - financed through debts which are repaid through the club's income.

The Glazers were notorious for their money extraction schemes including adding spurious charges to the rents of the poorest people living in trailer parks which the Glazers took over.

Having said that I doubt if this is an issue for Manchester United as it has the highest income in world football
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

Air hostess clique

2
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 13:32 - May 19 with 1786 viewsTGRRRSSS

Being run shambolically PlanetHoneywood is certainly not illegal and punishable in the EFL handbook.

Not too worried about players and staff not being paid elsewhere but "hey it's QPR and their billionaire owners!!!"

As I said above if I was in the position of the owners I'd be having a field day in court.

The bottom line is, it's a dirty horrible pit in football that the authorities don't want to air in open court.

Remember Paul Burrel and his court case???

Not quite the same but the point is similar.

Take it to the limit raise the stakes so high........
1
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:26 - May 19 with 1696 viewsPlanetHonneywood

'...Being run shambolically PlanetHoneywood is certainly not illegal and punishable in the EFL handbook...'

Didn't actually say that.

However, the effects of being run so shambolically, is something we're potentially going to find the cost of in some form of punishment under the FFP rules.

Now as there is no precedent for this, the level of any possible fine is something we've undoubtedly been discussing with the powers that be, and I've no doubt we've pointed out that which I think is a strong argument for a lenient fine or, we'll all be heading to the Court in Lusernne.

'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk Nous sommes L’occitane Rs!
Poll: Who should do the Birmingham Frederick?

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 19:31 - May 20 with 1516 viewsDejR_vu

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 08:11 - May 19 by Blue_Castello

Exactly how I see it, the rules have been changed because the Football League decided they were unfair and unworkable, that gives our legal team all the ammunition they need to build a case that we should be judged by the current rules.


Not quite as straightforward as that. The current rules did not exist when we fell foul of the old rules. The change in the rules could be argued as acceptance of the fact that the old rules were unfair, and as such could be a supporting factor. However, the fact remains, at the relevant time we acted outside of the prevailing rules. We cannot claim that we knew they were unfair and would be changed, they were the rules at the time and we were bound by them. The stronger argument isn't that they were unfair, but that our breach was unavoidable by virtue of contractual commitments entered in to before the FFP regulations came in to effect.
[Post edited 20 May 2017 19:38]

Poll: Season tickets - who’s renewing?

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 19:49 - May 20 with 1492 viewsjohncharles

The Hubble telescope has spotted something approaching our planet. Is it a bird ? Is it a plane ?
No one can tell. Experts think it will burn itself out before it reaches Earth in approx. 2999.

Strong and stable my arse.

0
FFP Decision Incoming?! on 21:37 - May 20 with 1433 viewsJamesB1979

FFP Decision Incoming?! on 15:40 - May 18 by FDC

I find it helps to consciously work on feeling pride in place of horror when looking at this...



Oh for the love of god. Are people still printing this rubbish and most seem to be buying into it. These tables suggest that we're in financial trouble and going to end up in administration.

We have debt of c. 10m.

The huge figures quoted include money the shareholders have put in as a loan. But what does that mean in practice? Who is on the hook to pay this? The owners.....i.e. The people who own the shareholder loan. Owners can put in money either as capital or loan. In this case, could be put in as loan for a number of reasons. One reason is likely to be that otherwise they wound all have to put in the same proportions as they own the club. Other benefits will be tax and that when sold these loans get paid off first. But, and I can't emphasize this enough, capital or shareholder loan in practice means little difference to the club. If shareholders had funded as capital, figure in that table would be 10m.

it does highlight 2 things though. 1- we've spent more than we've earnt 2-our shareholders have lost a huge amount of cash. And this is why they brought in Ffp. But we all knew that.
1
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024