| Non QPR - Manchester Arena 23:48 - May 22 with 31116 views | Bakes |
Something's going down, reports of an explosion and confirmed deaths.
Bloody hell |  |
| With Faith And Courage Comes Glory |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 11:50 - May 23 with 2440 views | PlanetHonneywood |
I lived in Manc for many years and have lots of mates with daughters of the age likely to go to this gig. Thus far, all safe.
And then a mate who is a surgeon posts; just went to see a girl to assess before surgery, she still had glitter on her face. But she is strong!
On days like this and, having read the thread about the bloke working as a contractor in Mosul, you just have to have faith in the human spirit to come through all this and shine at the end of it.
I shudder to think the security levels that are going to be placed on heavily attended events like football matches. |  |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:03 - May 23 with 2396 views | paulparker |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 11:33 - May 23 by Jigsore |
your first two suggestions were way more sensible. I don't see how shutting a Mosque would do anything helpful except drive a few more towards the extremist bosom, Catholic Churches weren't closed when the IRA bombed the Conservative conference in Brighton after all. but ultimately we have to accept there's never going be a 100% way. I think generally our security services do a very good job and they foil far more of these attacks than they have any right to.
i'd expect higher security levels at large events and more police on the streets for now. But ultimately I don't think there's actually that much to be done unless you punish people who enable radical Islam like the Saudis. but we'll probably just sell them some more weapons. They don't have to export people they just have to export a dangeorus ideology that appeals to people a few sandwiches short of a picnic and give them a just cause. there's a reason a lot of bombers end up being people who converted rather than being born into it. Whatever people do just don't do a Katie Hopkins and call for a final solution... doesn't help anyone [Post edited 23 May 2017 11:35]
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im afraid to say a lot of mosques are a hotbed of extremism, shutting those that are and arresting hate preachers needs to be the way forward, we must change our laws
it cannot be right that people are radicalised by a place of worship , we cant have people popping back here after going off to Syria
its a horrible thing to say but we are at war with these people who use this religion , you cant have kids being blown up or abused anymore , we are a tolerant race of people , to tolerant , if it means stop and search then so be it , if it means those who went to Syria to fight and those who preach hate are tagged then so be it
we cant have this tip toeing around and being freighted of being called racists
cut these peoples benefits , chuck them out of their homes if need be, we have to act tough, softly, softly doesn't and hasn't worked
the Muslim community has a whole cannot control this, so this government needs to act , May needs to act , all of the words of solidarity, life goes on, and tea light candles needs to stop its action now, its little girls being blown up |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:26 - May 23 with 2330 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:03 - May 23 by paulparker |
im afraid to say a lot of mosques are a hotbed of extremism, shutting those that are and arresting hate preachers needs to be the way forward, we must change our laws
it cannot be right that people are radicalised by a place of worship , we cant have people popping back here after going off to Syria
its a horrible thing to say but we are at war with these people who use this religion , you cant have kids being blown up or abused anymore , we are a tolerant race of people , to tolerant , if it means stop and search then so be it , if it means those who went to Syria to fight and those who preach hate are tagged then so be it
we cant have this tip toeing around and being freighted of being called racists
cut these peoples benefits , chuck them out of their homes if need be, we have to act tough, softly, softly doesn't and hasn't worked
the Muslim community has a whole cannot control this, so this government needs to act , May needs to act , all of the words of solidarity, life goes on, and tea light candles needs to stop its action now, its little girls being blown up |
We can shut down all the mosques in the world, and it won't change ideology.
You can't fight ideology with physical closure or violence. It's been done and doesn't work. Doesn't work in Russia, doesn't work in China, doesn't work in Turkey, doesn't work in Central Asia.
There is no quick fix.
Educate. Educate. Educate.
It's a long term problem that can only be solved by a long term solution.
I know what a lentil eater that makes me sound like, but pragmatism is the only way of dealing with these things. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:27 - May 23 with 2319 views | onlyrinmoray |
Defence spending ....Spending trillions on trident why ? I would rather have some of that tightening border security and on intelligence services and upgrading the Police Service. Defending our country and its citizens is the priority. Not bragging we are an important nuclear nation like our big brother the USA
However I agree you cant stop every nutter |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:33 - May 23 with 2295 views | BostonR |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 08:20 - May 23 by johnhoop |
Well for a start Bazza,the fact that we allowed hundreds of people who had fought for ISIS in Iraq and Syria back into the country was total insanity as far as I am concerned. The law should have been changed to prevent it happening. And the least we can do now is to prevent any more of the fckers from returning. |
The problem is way beyond stopping them returning - they are all back in the country! I am in the US and it is being reported here that the individual concerned is known to both the US and UK security services. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:38 - May 23 with 2266 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:33 - May 23 by BostonR |
The problem is way beyond stopping them returning - they are all back in the country! I am in the US and it is being reported here that the individual concerned is known to both the US and UK security services. |
They have already said they have identified him here. |  |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:39 - May 23 with 2264 views | paulparker |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:26 - May 23 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We can shut down all the mosques in the world, and it won't change ideology.
You can't fight ideology with physical closure or violence. It's been done and doesn't work. Doesn't work in Russia, doesn't work in China, doesn't work in Turkey, doesn't work in Central Asia.
There is no quick fix.
Educate. Educate. Educate.
It's a long term problem that can only be solved by a long term solution.
I know what a lentil eater that makes me sound like, but pragmatism is the only way of dealing with these things. |
Baz we have tried the turn the other cheek , you can only keep turning that cheek before you get bruised, well yesterday is the day we got bruised
you cannot educate these people its folly , we have heard it before , we have heard we will beat them by acting normal, well acting normal is having little girls blown to pieces
whilst we stand back and do nothing
how long term do you want to go, what 10 years to the 7/7 bombings
its kids mate, my child your child every other persons child , you cannot blow up kids if say a country like Nigeria suddenly came along and dropped a bomb on a school do you think we wouldn't take military action , we would so we have to take action now its the same thing
im not in the Katie Hopkins camp but im certainly not in the owen jones lets light a candle and sing a song camp either | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:48 - May 23 with 2220 views | Brightonhoop |
Uefa have confirmed the Utd v Ajax game will go ahead tomorrow night in Stockholm. |  | | |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:49 - May 23 with 2215 views | daveB |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:39 - May 23 by paulparker |
Baz we have tried the turn the other cheek , you can only keep turning that cheek before you get bruised, well yesterday is the day we got bruised
you cannot educate these people its folly , we have heard it before , we have heard we will beat them by acting normal, well acting normal is having little girls blown to pieces
whilst we stand back and do nothing
how long term do you want to go, what 10 years to the 7/7 bombings
its kids mate, my child your child every other persons child , you cannot blow up kids if say a country like Nigeria suddenly came along and dropped a bomb on a school do you think we wouldn't take military action , we would so we have to take action now its the same thing
im not in the Katie Hopkins camp but im certainly not in the owen jones lets light a candle and sing a song camp either |
I'm not sure shutting mosques is the answer and it just helps with the radicalization as they will say look the west won't let you pray etc.
I won't pretend to have a clue what the answer is though, not as if it's war where you can say there they are lets go and fight them, they are like bloody rats all over the shop |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:49 - May 23 with 2215 views | runningman75 |
From what I read there was no bag checks for people going into the Manchester Arena. We need to expect security checks to be more of a way of life now. I go to London theatres and get there earlier now due to bag checks.
I have been in Israel and had my bag searched on entering the train station. I met a friend in Tel Aviv who had lost a friend in a bus bombing there. We now need to learn how to deal with terrorism and be aware of the threat. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:01 - May 23 with 2171 views | Northernr |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:49 - May 23 by runningman75 |
From what I read there was no bag checks for people going into the Manchester Arena. We need to expect security checks to be more of a way of life now. I go to London theatres and get there earlier now due to bag checks.
I have been in Israel and had my bag searched on entering the train station. I met a friend in Tel Aviv who had lost a friend in a bus bombing there. We now need to learn how to deal with terrorism and be aware of the threat. |
I'd be really surprised if that was true (the no bag checks thing). Whenever I've been to arenas here and in the US in recent years it's an absolute pain in the ars to get in, full on metal detectors and the whole works. When I went to see the Capitals play in January I had my lap top in my bag because I'd been working during the day and they made me take it out, plug it in, turn it on and open a Word document to prove it worked before they'd let me in. So if people are being waved into MEN unchecked that's amazing and frankly unbelieveable.
That said, it wouldn't have stopped last night. This was a suicide bomber at the end of the concert when they throw the doors open and everybody's leaving. Weak point. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:01 - May 23 with 2169 views | Brightonhoop |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:49 - May 23 by runningman75 |
From what I read there was no bag checks for people going into the Manchester Arena. We need to expect security checks to be more of a way of life now. I go to London theatres and get there earlier now due to bag checks.
I have been in Israel and had my bag searched on entering the train station. I met a friend in Tel Aviv who had lost a friend in a bus bombing there. We now need to learn how to deal with terrorism and be aware of the threat. |
We're a long way behind the curve legally too.
It just seems absurd that the laws of open borders and trade within Europe have been exploited by terrorists, and a legal discourse leading to new thinking and Law preventing fighters returning to the EU and UK has not occured. Intelligence is currently key clearly, but if those Jihadis were then isolated in detention the services could focus far more on the home growns and those radicalising them in the UK, wherever and online. Crazy that they can return. | | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:01 - May 23 with 2166 views | LythamR |
"how long can this go on for, have we all ready forgotten west minister ?? 7/7 ??
when do you say enough is enough , does anyone feel the likes of corbyn, may, farron can lead us out of this, does anyone trust the authorities anymore to protect us"
Its not possible for the authorities to protect us 100% from this sort of terrorism. I think they probably do a very good job with the resources made available by the british government.
If they were not doing a good job there would be many more of these incidents but eventually some are going to succeed.
Of course now in Manchester like in london recently their will be masses of police on the streets, high visibility to reassure communities but it wont be long before memos start flying about budgets and overtime etc, just like they will have been doing in the days prior to these incidents.
Still weve got out trident submarines and aircraft carriers to protect us. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:02 - May 23 with 2165 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:39 - May 23 by paulparker |
Baz we have tried the turn the other cheek , you can only keep turning that cheek before you get bruised, well yesterday is the day we got bruised
you cannot educate these people its folly , we have heard it before , we have heard we will beat them by acting normal, well acting normal is having little girls blown to pieces
whilst we stand back and do nothing
how long term do you want to go, what 10 years to the 7/7 bombings
its kids mate, my child your child every other persons child , you cannot blow up kids if say a country like Nigeria suddenly came along and dropped a bomb on a school do you think we wouldn't take military action , we would so we have to take action now its the same thing
im not in the Katie Hopkins camp but im certainly not in the owen jones lets light a candle and sing a song camp either |
It's funny you mention Nigeria as they have just secured he releas of 82 hostages through negotiation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/82-chibok-girls-freed-in-nigeria-after-year
This comes after years of trying to bomb them to fvck.
Mate, I'm not against punishing individuals who spread hate I'm just saying it doesn't stop radicalisation.
This isn't campfire diplomacy it's pragmatic action extolled by people far more submersed in it than you or me. | | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:07 - May 23 with 2146 views | Lblock |
Blair's legacy rolls on.......
So terribly sad. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:12 - May 23 with 2122 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
They were checking bags but I'm not sure how well
But this was at the end with people ready to leave and no doubt if you have ever left an event it's the more vulnerable time and the clear reason why this **** picked it | |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:16 - May 23 with 2102 views | Brightonhoop |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:07 - May 23 by Lblock |
Blair's legacy rolls on.......
So terribly sad. |
Indeed, but May selling arms to the Saudis knowing they then go and bomb the fck out civilians in Yemen continues the legacy that will ensure in the decades ahead more and more terrorists will come from there to attack us.
The cycle of violence is just grotesque and our politicians seem incapable of understanding or disregarding the facts civilians are dying elsewhere from which we profit.
What a world we've made. | | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:17 - May 23 with 2087 views | daveB |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:49 - May 23 by runningman75 |
From what I read there was no bag checks for people going into the Manchester Arena. We need to expect security checks to be more of a way of life now. I go to London theatres and get there earlier now due to bag checks.
I have been in Israel and had my bag searched on entering the train station. I met a friend in Tel Aviv who had lost a friend in a bus bombing there. We now need to learn how to deal with terrorism and be aware of the threat. |
I'd be amazed if they didn't have bag checks, we had them when we went to see Marvel live with my son but really doesn't matter if they had bag checks or not, the person who did this wasn't at the concert, he walked in at the end when the concert had finished | | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:22 - May 23 with 2074 views | Jeff |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:49 - May 23 by runningman75 |
From what I read there was no bag checks for people going into the Manchester Arena. We need to expect security checks to be more of a way of life now. I go to London theatres and get there earlier now due to bag checks.
I have been in Israel and had my bag searched on entering the train station. I met a friend in Tel Aviv who had lost a friend in a bus bombing there. We now need to learn how to deal with terrorism and be aware of the threat. |
on a slightly tangential note to this, flew home changing via Istanbul yesterday, and the security there was huge - was fully checked at least 3 times before boarding the plane, military / police presence was everywhere.
Additionally, the laptop ban - people are either not aware, or more likely, ignoring it / trying to chance/blag it - On a plane of 200 passengers, they had to 'confiscate' at least 50 laptops from people at the Gate before the flight... |  |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:30 - May 23 with 2029 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Saffie Roussos, 8 named as has died
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:40 - May 23 with 1992 views | Juzzie |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 13:01 - May 23 by LythamR |
"how long can this go on for, have we all ready forgotten west minister ?? 7/7 ??
when do you say enough is enough , does anyone feel the likes of corbyn, may, farron can lead us out of this, does anyone trust the authorities anymore to protect us"
Its not possible for the authorities to protect us 100% from this sort of terrorism. I think they probably do a very good job with the resources made available by the british government.
If they were not doing a good job there would be many more of these incidents but eventually some are going to succeed.
Of course now in Manchester like in london recently their will be masses of police on the streets, high visibility to reassure communities but it wont be long before memos start flying about budgets and overtime etc, just like they will have been doing in the days prior to these incidents.
Still weve got out trident submarines and aircraft carriers to protect us. |
I think the authorities do a very good job under a lot of difficult circumstances. As said, we cannot stop them all.
In July 2015 there was a raid on a house in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan that housed ISIS operatives. It did not make the news in the UK and I only heard about it when I saw posts appear on Facebook from people I know out there.
From a news report;
"Such was the intensity of the firepower being used that fires broke out within an hour. Eventually the flames spread across the neighborhood, destroying four houses and leaving six families homeless.
The attack came from all sides, and civilians in the area were not given advance notice. Police neglected to cordon off the area so at least an hour after the start of the raid residents themselves had to turn back unsuspecting motorists intent on passing through the area."
It's a miracle no member of the public was hurt and having spent two weeks out there it comes to me as no surprise there was no attempt to protect the public, it seemed very much a gung-ho approach and quite indiscriminate.
That wouldn't happen here, thankfully.
edit: I also heard that the owners of the houses that were destroyed were offered no compensation by the government. Unless they had insurance, which they probably didn't as people hardly even insure their cars [not a legal requirement], then they were pretty much fked.
[Post edited 23 May 2017 13:48]
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 14:10 - May 23 with 1881 views | TheChef |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 12:48 - May 23 by Brightonhoop |
Uefa have confirmed the Utd v Ajax game will go ahead tomorrow night in Stockholm. |
Why wouldn't it go ahead?
Can you imagine this country living through the Blitz if we had social media, 24 hour rolling news, etc? We wouldn't last two seconds without dissolving into simpering wrecks wearing black armbands and holding candlelit vigils every two seconds.
Stiff upper lip my ar$e. |  |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 14:10 - May 23 with 1874 views | loftboy |
Any one who is under surveillance from the security forces should be interned, sod their human rights they don't have any. |  |
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| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 14:15 - May 23 with 1861 views | Northernr |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 14:10 - May 23 by TheChef |
Why wouldn't it go ahead?
Can you imagine this country living through the Blitz if we had social media, 24 hour rolling news, etc? We wouldn't last two seconds without dissolving into simpering wrecks wearing black armbands and holding candlelit vigils every two seconds.
Stiff upper lip my ar$e. |
I wonder what minute we'll have the applause in?  | | | |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 14:20 - May 23 with 1834 views | paulparker |
| Non QPR - Manchester Arena on 14:10 - May 23 by TheChef |
Why wouldn't it go ahead?
Can you imagine this country living through the Blitz if we had social media, 24 hour rolling news, etc? We wouldn't last two seconds without dissolving into simpering wrecks wearing black armbands and holding candlelit vigils every two seconds.
Stiff upper lip my ar$e. |
just seen a clip of Jason manford crying and saying don't give in to hate
seriously these "stars" with their self promotion of caring makes me puke
tell that to the little kids and their parents who are dead or have had body parts blown away | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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