| Latimer Road 02:31 - Jun 14 with 95297 views | stowmarketrange |
A big fire in a tower block in Latimer Road just been reported on 5live.Eyewitness says there are people trapped on the upper floors.
I hope everyone gets out safely. |  | | |  |
| Latimer Road on 17:36 - Jun 15 with 2901 views | stowmarketrange |
| Latimer Road on 17:09 - Jun 15 by smegma |
I'm fine Brian. My two colleagues are going to need loads of help. Luckily TFL have their own counsellors and psychiatrists. |
My late brother had someone throw themselves under his tube train in the early 80's.I think things were a little bit different in those days and I'm not sure he was ever offered any counselling back then. | | | |
| Latimer Road on 19:30 - Jun 15 with 2759 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Latimer Road on 17:09 - Jun 15 by smegma |
I'm fine Brian. My two colleagues are going to need loads of help. Luckily TFL have their own counsellors and psychiatrists. |
Glad you're ok. Take care. |  |
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| Latimer Road on 20:27 - Jun 15 with 2631 views | colinallcars |
| Latimer Road on 17:33 - Jun 15 by JamesB1979 |
And who will be the ones getting thrown bricks at and attacked at any riot? Yep, same poor sods who have to run with a batton towards knife wielding terroists.....the police. |
Agreed. Unfortunately there are some that would manipulate situations like this for their own ends. I remember that in the days after 7/7 tube and bus bombings there was a large increase in crime as so many officers were deployed into central London leaving outer areas underpoliced. Bloody charming. |  | | |
| Latimer Road on 20:38 - Jun 15 with 2595 views | karl |
| Latimer Road on 10:30 - Jun 15 by smegma |
The longest day of my life but it's minuscule in comparison to what those families are going through. I played on the building site that became Lancaster West Estate in the late 60s early 70s. . I lived 100 yards from the building for most of my childhood. My bedroom looked out onto the flats. Working at Holland Park station (nearest station opened) I had to deal with loads of distraught people looking to find one of the five assistance centres. We also had to deal with the numerous volunteers looking to help out. Then news filtered through that a work colleague had lost his sister in law and five kids under 10 years old. Everyone openly wept for him.Then I had to send another colleague home when his missus text to say her uncle is missing. Turns out he's the one reported missing on TV as he couldn't escape from the 20th floor as he was disabled. His wife and daughter had to leave him behind to escape. Then I got told my mate Eddie Daffarn lived on the 16th floor. When I saw him being interviewed on ITV at 7pm I wept for joy. He's even in last nights Standard on page 5 telling how he was lucky to escape when a fireman found him in the darkness and dragged him to the stairs. I've also been given a list of blokes I knew growing up but haven't seen for over 20 years that are on the missing list. It numbers over a dozen but could rise. [Post edited 15 Jun 2017 10:31]
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That brought a chill to me, good luck mate and i hope things can somehow improve.
What an absolute tragedy and i'll bore those i've said this to before, when you make something like housing a business only orientated operation then basic human needs are neglected. Safety, affordability etc are not on the list it seems |  | | |
| Latimer Road on 21:33 - Jun 15 with 2459 views | BklynRanger |
Heavy stuff. Smegma, all the best to you man.
I did a couple of cack handed hours earlier carrying boxes of donations at Hammersmith Town Hall.
Just in terms of what I saw was coming in - they definitely need nappies and, to a lesser extent toiletries.
Most of the the other categories, especially clothes, were well catered for - clothes, toys, bedding. A massively touching response.
There was a bloke down there about 7.30 in a QPR shirt donating. I nearly yelled 'You R's' but it obviously wasn't the time. |  | | |
| Latimer Road on 22:11 - Jun 15 with 2369 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I can not think of another disaster like this that comes down to government and corporate negligence since Aberfan |  |
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| Latimer Road on 22:18 - Jun 15 with 2343 views | PunteR |
| Latimer Road on 22:11 - Jun 15 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
I can not think of another disaster like this that comes down to government and corporate negligence since Aberfan |
Yeh we get it 2t2b.. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Latimer Road on 22:20 - Jun 15 with 2341 views | karl |
| Latimer Road on 21:33 - Jun 15 by BklynRanger |
Heavy stuff. Smegma, all the best to you man.
I did a couple of cack handed hours earlier carrying boxes of donations at Hammersmith Town Hall.
Just in terms of what I saw was coming in - they definitely need nappies and, to a lesser extent toiletries.
Most of the the other categories, especially clothes, were well catered for - clothes, toys, bedding. A massively touching response.
There was a bloke down there about 7.30 in a QPR shirt donating. I nearly yelled 'You R's' but it obviously wasn't the time. |
There's a haulage company here organising a collection and delivery for next week, good to know Brooklyn, will get my donation in asap. It's obviously important that its useful items so thanks for that. | | | |
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| Latimer Road on 22:25 - Jun 15 with 2314 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Latimer Road on 22:18 - Jun 15 by PunteR |
Yeh we get it 2t2b.. |
I've pretty much left it today while others have had their say and shown their anger and commented on that.
If you think I'm just angry and not upset, you are very wrong, I've cried a few times
Don't just look to dig me out, it's a far observation. | |
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| Latimer Road on 22:48 - Jun 15 with 2242 views | DannytheR |
Tomorrow's Times are running a story that installing the fire resistant version of the cladding would have cost approx 5k more for the entire tower.
Fck's sake. This can't go on. |  | | |
| Latimer Road on 22:50 - Jun 15 with 2235 views | PunteR |
| Latimer Road on 22:25 - Jun 15 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
I've pretty much left it today while others have had their say and shown their anger and commented on that.
If you think I'm just angry and not upset, you are very wrong, I've cried a few times
Don't just look to dig me out, it's a far observation. |
Apologies.
Im not looking for an argument tonight..
I dont think your just angry btw. im sure your upset and shed a few tears . | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Latimer Road on 22:53 - Jun 15 with 2220 views | BklynRanger |
| Latimer Road on 22:20 - Jun 15 by karl |
There's a haulage company here organising a collection and delivery for next week, good to know Brooklyn, will get my donation in asap. It's obviously important that its useful items so thanks for that. |
I'll ask tomorrow Karl - will add to this and pm you. I can't keep track of Facebook anymore but if you're in touch with Ewan (formerly Ganj) I know he's been right in the middle of it in terms of helping. [Post edited 15 Jun 2017 22:54]
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| Latimer Road on 22:53 - Jun 15 with 2215 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Latimer Road on 22:50 - Jun 15 by PunteR |
Apologies.
Im not looking for an argument tonight..
I dont think your just angry btw. im sure your upset and shed a few tears . |
It's ok.. we are all sensitive atm | |
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| Latimer Road on 23:01 - Jun 15 with 2179 views | ted_hendrix |
| Latimer Road on 22:53 - Jun 15 by BklynRanger |
I'll ask tomorrow Karl - will add to this and pm you. I can't keep track of Facebook anymore but if you're in touch with Ewan (formerly Ganj) I know he's been right in the middle of it in terms of helping. [Post edited 15 Jun 2017 22:54]
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That sounds like Ewan, the blokes got a heart of gold. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Latimer Road on 23:07 - Jun 15 with 2155 views | zicoshoops |
Let's have this right.
Interesting listening to the Lad talking about the Lifts not working.
Four year after the building opened, the Lifts were always breaking down even then.
Grenfell Tower was a shitehole 39 years ago when I lived in it.
I'm sure that everyone from the Leader of the Council down, are all saying the right things now, and no doubt someone way down the ladder will be hung out to dry, but............
This Block was built by The Council.
A 'Jerry built' shitehole.
It was in the late 70's.
Christ knows what it was like before the sad event.
Condolences to all of the families and friends of the lost
And RIP to all of those who lost their lives.
I hope this doesn't get whitewashed, because this is a disgrace.
This is in the court of Kensington and Chelsea Council. |  | | |
| Latimer Road on 23:12 - Jun 15 with 2133 views | karl |
| Latimer Road on 22:53 - Jun 15 by BklynRanger |
I'll ask tomorrow Karl - will add to this and pm you. I can't keep track of Facebook anymore but if you're in touch with Ewan (formerly Ganj) I know he's been right in the middle of it in terms of helping. [Post edited 15 Jun 2017 22:54]
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That doesn't surprise me, I've sent him a message. Shamefully haven't been in touch for over a year.
Thanks Brooklyn, good luck and well done with your efforts so far | | | |
| Latimer Road on 23:18 - Jun 15 with 2089 views | BklynRanger |
| Latimer Road on 23:12 - Jun 15 by karl |
That doesn't surprise me, I've sent him a message. Shamefully haven't been in touch for over a year.
Thanks Brooklyn, good luck and well done with your efforts so far |
Good. Cheers mate. It's nothing at all to thank me about. | | | |
| Latimer Road on 00:07 - Jun 16 with 1986 views | Lblock |
| Latimer Road on 22:48 - Jun 15 by DannytheR |
Tomorrow's Times are running a story that installing the fire resistant version of the cladding would have cost approx 5k more for the entire tower.
Fck's sake. This can't go on. |
There are very few materials totally inert to fire, which is I think where you are coming from
It's a difficult one to get your head around and I don't profess to be any form of expert. I was totally confused when I was told timber isn't a hugely combustible product. Fact is, in its pure form, wood can be very difficult to light but when you do then by Christ you all know what happens; intense heat and it burns deep and long.
So the cladding could quite easily have been plywood with a Class 0 spread of flame rating but once it was lit to the extent it was then a deadly chain reaction occurs - more on that in a bit.
So there are products brilliant for stopping this - point in case being this block. The building still stands and is good old fashioned concrete clad steel and masonry. Fact is these are very much out of vogue due to costs, building time and the green lobby. So modern day methods are typically composites and lightweight metals
Aluminium has a high temperature combustible rate, about 300oC I think, but there are far better products out there OR methods to mitigate a wild spread as happened here
So for a fire you need ignition/combustion + fuel + oxygen
I'm going to make a leap here and say that a fridge alone cannot be the source of this - on its own. Wherever and however this started it must have had "assistance" or some form of accelerant. I'm not saying it's sinister - matey could've been a newspaper horder, he may have been servicing his motorbike in the kitchen or may have been decorating. Nonetheless at the seat of the fire there was quick tremendous heat which has caused a furnace
Now those I haven't bored to tears and are still with me I'm getting to the end. The current obsession with environmental standards means we end up with stupid levels of insulation and this needs to breathe (which defeats the object) to avoid sweating etc. So we use air voids and due to space constraints the support system needs to be high performance lightweight and economic; step forward aluminium
Once insulation and plastic and aluminium are alight and generating ever increasing heat you'll have a molten situation. With air (i.e oxygen) rushing around in a wind tunnel you now have the nightmare scenario and without a robust fire break the whole lot is going up as the fire voraciously feeds itself
So we need to look at if U-values and thermal performance is most important or cost efficient buildings or how they look or how they perform life safety wise....you cant go back to asbestos times!!
It's a mess but let's see what the experts state first |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Latimer Road on 00:08 - Jun 16 with 1986 views | Northernr |
Lawyer on Newsnight just pointed out that it's either a public enquiry (with a government appointed judge) or inquests (with a jury). By calling a public enquiry so quickly, they've already ruled out people having an inquest with a jury and unlawful killing or narrative verdicts.
It's going to go off. |  | | |
| Latimer Road on 00:14 - Jun 16 with 1969 views | DannytheR |
| Latimer Road on 00:07 - Jun 16 by Lblock |
There are very few materials totally inert to fire, which is I think where you are coming from
It's a difficult one to get your head around and I don't profess to be any form of expert. I was totally confused when I was told timber isn't a hugely combustible product. Fact is, in its pure form, wood can be very difficult to light but when you do then by Christ you all know what happens; intense heat and it burns deep and long.
So the cladding could quite easily have been plywood with a Class 0 spread of flame rating but once it was lit to the extent it was then a deadly chain reaction occurs - more on that in a bit.
So there are products brilliant for stopping this - point in case being this block. The building still stands and is good old fashioned concrete clad steel and masonry. Fact is these are very much out of vogue due to costs, building time and the green lobby. So modern day methods are typically composites and lightweight metals
Aluminium has a high temperature combustible rate, about 300oC I think, but there are far better products out there OR methods to mitigate a wild spread as happened here
So for a fire you need ignition/combustion + fuel + oxygen
I'm going to make a leap here and say that a fridge alone cannot be the source of this - on its own. Wherever and however this started it must have had "assistance" or some form of accelerant. I'm not saying it's sinister - matey could've been a newspaper horder, he may have been servicing his motorbike in the kitchen or may have been decorating. Nonetheless at the seat of the fire there was quick tremendous heat which has caused a furnace
Now those I haven't bored to tears and are still with me I'm getting to the end. The current obsession with environmental standards means we end up with stupid levels of insulation and this needs to breathe (which defeats the object) to avoid sweating etc. So we use air voids and due to space constraints the support system needs to be high performance lightweight and economic; step forward aluminium
Once insulation and plastic and aluminium are alight and generating ever increasing heat you'll have a molten situation. With air (i.e oxygen) rushing around in a wind tunnel you now have the nightmare scenario and without a robust fire break the whole lot is going up as the fire voraciously feeds itself
So we need to look at if U-values and thermal performance is most important or cost efficient buildings or how they look or how they perform life safety wise....you cant go back to asbestos times!!
It's a mess but let's see what the experts state first |
Happy to bow to your expertise on it - what the Times says is (only an excerpt but the gist is obvious):
"Grenfell Tower refurbishers would have needed less than £5,000 to upgrade the building’s external panels to a fire-resistant version thought not to have been used, The Times can reveal.
Hundreds of aluminium panels, known as Reynobond, were installed on the 230ft west London property in a £8.6 million refurbishment. Witnesses described the building’s cladding, made up of the panels and an insulating underlayer, as going up like a “matchstick”.
Reynobond offers three types of panel: a standard one with a polyethylene core (PE) and two with fire resistant or “non combustible” cores. Grenfell Tower had reportedly been fitted with the cheaper PE version" | | | |
| Latimer Road on 00:21 - Jun 16 with 1946 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Latimer Road on 22:48 - Jun 15 by DannytheR |
Tomorrow's Times are running a story that installing the fire resistant version of the cladding would have cost approx 5k more for the entire tower.
Fck's sake. This can't go on. |
Needs to be lots of questions asked of KCBC - and Nicholas Paget-Brown in particular. Watched him interviewed yesterday and he didn't look at all remorseful. In fact he was all to quick to point the finger at 'the management company', KCTMO. Why does one of the richest boroughs in the UK need to 'outsource' the management of their public housing? Did you see the KCTMO Chief Executive, Robert Black, being interviewed? "I've been here since 3:30 this morning..." My heart bleeds for you mate. This had DISASTER written all over it for years:
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/
It's a f.ucking disgrace and Paget-Brown and Black need to be held accountable for all those horrific and totally unnecessary deaths. I sincerely hope the newly elected labour MP for Kensington and Chelsea is going to haul this lot over the coals. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Latimer Road on 00:50 - Jun 16 with 1881 views | PunteR |
| Latimer Road on 00:07 - Jun 16 by Lblock |
There are very few materials totally inert to fire, which is I think where you are coming from
It's a difficult one to get your head around and I don't profess to be any form of expert. I was totally confused when I was told timber isn't a hugely combustible product. Fact is, in its pure form, wood can be very difficult to light but when you do then by Christ you all know what happens; intense heat and it burns deep and long.
So the cladding could quite easily have been plywood with a Class 0 spread of flame rating but once it was lit to the extent it was then a deadly chain reaction occurs - more on that in a bit.
So there are products brilliant for stopping this - point in case being this block. The building still stands and is good old fashioned concrete clad steel and masonry. Fact is these are very much out of vogue due to costs, building time and the green lobby. So modern day methods are typically composites and lightweight metals
Aluminium has a high temperature combustible rate, about 300oC I think, but there are far better products out there OR methods to mitigate a wild spread as happened here
So for a fire you need ignition/combustion + fuel + oxygen
I'm going to make a leap here and say that a fridge alone cannot be the source of this - on its own. Wherever and however this started it must have had "assistance" or some form of accelerant. I'm not saying it's sinister - matey could've been a newspaper horder, he may have been servicing his motorbike in the kitchen or may have been decorating. Nonetheless at the seat of the fire there was quick tremendous heat which has caused a furnace
Now those I haven't bored to tears and are still with me I'm getting to the end. The current obsession with environmental standards means we end up with stupid levels of insulation and this needs to breathe (which defeats the object) to avoid sweating etc. So we use air voids and due to space constraints the support system needs to be high performance lightweight and economic; step forward aluminium
Once insulation and plastic and aluminium are alight and generating ever increasing heat you'll have a molten situation. With air (i.e oxygen) rushing around in a wind tunnel you now have the nightmare scenario and without a robust fire break the whole lot is going up as the fire voraciously feeds itself
So we need to look at if U-values and thermal performance is most important or cost efficient buildings or how they look or how they perform life safety wise....you cant go back to asbestos times!!
It's a mess but let's see what the experts state first |
Excellent informative post this.. ^
"So we need to look at if U-values and thermal performance is most important or cost efficient buildings or how they look or how they perform life safety wise....you cant go back to asbestos times!!"
It does seem the council went down the cosmetic route to fit in with the rest of London's gentrification.
If the cladding wasnt fitted this wouldnt have happened. Poor design, possibly badly fitted. Lots of faults.. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Latimer Road on 01:11 - Jun 16 with 1855 views | PunteR |
| Latimer Road on 00:07 - Jun 16 by Lblock |
There are very few materials totally inert to fire, which is I think where you are coming from
It's a difficult one to get your head around and I don't profess to be any form of expert. I was totally confused when I was told timber isn't a hugely combustible product. Fact is, in its pure form, wood can be very difficult to light but when you do then by Christ you all know what happens; intense heat and it burns deep and long.
So the cladding could quite easily have been plywood with a Class 0 spread of flame rating but once it was lit to the extent it was then a deadly chain reaction occurs - more on that in a bit.
So there are products brilliant for stopping this - point in case being this block. The building still stands and is good old fashioned concrete clad steel and masonry. Fact is these are very much out of vogue due to costs, building time and the green lobby. So modern day methods are typically composites and lightweight metals
Aluminium has a high temperature combustible rate, about 300oC I think, but there are far better products out there OR methods to mitigate a wild spread as happened here
So for a fire you need ignition/combustion + fuel + oxygen
I'm going to make a leap here and say that a fridge alone cannot be the source of this - on its own. Wherever and however this started it must have had "assistance" or some form of accelerant. I'm not saying it's sinister - matey could've been a newspaper horder, he may have been servicing his motorbike in the kitchen or may have been decorating. Nonetheless at the seat of the fire there was quick tremendous heat which has caused a furnace
Now those I haven't bored to tears and are still with me I'm getting to the end. The current obsession with environmental standards means we end up with stupid levels of insulation and this needs to breathe (which defeats the object) to avoid sweating etc. So we use air voids and due to space constraints the support system needs to be high performance lightweight and economic; step forward aluminium
Once insulation and plastic and aluminium are alight and generating ever increasing heat you'll have a molten situation. With air (i.e oxygen) rushing around in a wind tunnel you now have the nightmare scenario and without a robust fire break the whole lot is going up as the fire voraciously feeds itself
So we need to look at if U-values and thermal performance is most important or cost efficient buildings or how they look or how they perform life safety wise....you cant go back to asbestos times!!
It's a mess but let's see what the experts state first |
Similar point that a mate posted on facebook .- "All cladding poses a risk, but then so do so many other things in the building (curtains, wooden furniture, a book collection,...). Point is that the fire should not have transferred via the facade this quickly. All building materials have undergone tests to determine their fireproofing class, and different building elements have different class requirements. It's not necessarily cheap versions that are not fire retardant, some expensive insulation materials (sheep wool, impregnated recycled paper fibres,...) also end up in the lower classes that might be just ok for the legal minimum requirement but is obviously. But i guess it's a nice journalistic angle to write the 'They used cheap inferior materials' story." | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Latimer Road on 02:11 - Jun 16 with 1815 views | Boston |
| Latimer Road on 00:07 - Jun 16 by Lblock |
There are very few materials totally inert to fire, which is I think where you are coming from
It's a difficult one to get your head around and I don't profess to be any form of expert. I was totally confused when I was told timber isn't a hugely combustible product. Fact is, in its pure form, wood can be very difficult to light but when you do then by Christ you all know what happens; intense heat and it burns deep and long.
So the cladding could quite easily have been plywood with a Class 0 spread of flame rating but once it was lit to the extent it was then a deadly chain reaction occurs - more on that in a bit.
So there are products brilliant for stopping this - point in case being this block. The building still stands and is good old fashioned concrete clad steel and masonry. Fact is these are very much out of vogue due to costs, building time and the green lobby. So modern day methods are typically composites and lightweight metals
Aluminium has a high temperature combustible rate, about 300oC I think, but there are far better products out there OR methods to mitigate a wild spread as happened here
So for a fire you need ignition/combustion + fuel + oxygen
I'm going to make a leap here and say that a fridge alone cannot be the source of this - on its own. Wherever and however this started it must have had "assistance" or some form of accelerant. I'm not saying it's sinister - matey could've been a newspaper horder, he may have been servicing his motorbike in the kitchen or may have been decorating. Nonetheless at the seat of the fire there was quick tremendous heat which has caused a furnace
Now those I haven't bored to tears and are still with me I'm getting to the end. The current obsession with environmental standards means we end up with stupid levels of insulation and this needs to breathe (which defeats the object) to avoid sweating etc. So we use air voids and due to space constraints the support system needs to be high performance lightweight and economic; step forward aluminium
Once insulation and plastic and aluminium are alight and generating ever increasing heat you'll have a molten situation. With air (i.e oxygen) rushing around in a wind tunnel you now have the nightmare scenario and without a robust fire break the whole lot is going up as the fire voraciously feeds itself
So we need to look at if U-values and thermal performance is most important or cost efficient buildings or how they look or how they perform life safety wise....you cant go back to asbestos times!!
It's a mess but let's see what the experts state first |
Fishy, maybe but certainly an extremely important question. How did a faulty fridge fire spread to the suspect cladding so quickly? I've witnessed a number of fires, suffered third burns, some of the incidents were very close to disaster and I believe you need an accelerant for spreading a flame so quickly.
And, wood is not a highly combustible material in its natural form. Walk through woodland after a forest fire, most of the trees survive, its the undergrowth that goes up. | |
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| Latimer Road on 02:51 - Jun 16 with 1804 views | Boston |
Y'know, after much thinking about this tragedy, I would recommend removing all local government officials from anything to do with the construction of housing, from the Mayor down. They are the weak link in the chain. | |
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