| Summer Transfer Rumours 16:26 - May 9 with 396479 views | derbyhoop |
As they seem to have started already, this should be an ongoing thread until August
Seny Dieng - Reims who are mid table in Ligue 1 reportedly interested
Conor Masterson - Gillingham, where he spent the 2nd half of the season; are confident of signing him, but Exeter are also interested |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:32 - Jun 4 with 4696 views | SimonD |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 14:00 - Jun 3 by QPR_Jim |
Simon wrote that article when Viera was manager of Crystal Palace and Eze was glued to the bench, so I think it's fair to say that the England cap was miles away. He was certainly further away (in march 2023) from getting a cap than he was when he got injured when he was on the cusp of a call up. |
Absolutely my thinking Jim. Someone who couldn't get into Palace's starting eleven, was not going to get a game for England. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:32 - Jun 4 with 4693 views | Gloucs_R |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:45 - Jun 4 by derbyhoop |
IF Palace sell him on?
For a profit?
We may be entitled to some money if he gets an England cap. I haven't got access to the details but I'd be surprised if it were > £1m |
No. It's 20% of any fee.
Something to do with Newcastle offering more so Palace agreed to this. |  |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:37 - Jun 4 with 4661 views | SimonD |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:45 - Jun 3 by Hunterhoop |
It’s at least 6m just to meet FFP, not 5m, as we went around the houses and SimonD proved. And that is IF we get £4m for Eze playing for England, which is conjecture. It’s a 10m improvement we need to see this season. Hopefully the TV money will help. Either way I doubt any wiggle room will be spent. It’ll be banked for the future rolling 3 year periods.
It’s doable but it involves selling several players. I don’t think Clive is wrong, he’s just using a little hyperbole with his words to make sure the message lands so expectations are managed (which is what the Board should be doing).
We can still be positive, but the positivity should be grounded in reality.
I think we’ll see some investment in the squad the following season to this next one. Some big contracts expire, and if we’ve made FFP this season, we’ll see the 24m loss of Warburton’s last season drop out, which will give us space. This coming season is the toughest one. Hoping we get good money for Chair/Willock. |
Hunter, you've said twice in this thread that the board should be making us aware of the situation. My view is in doing so they obviously confirm to all other clubs that we are desperate for sales and any offer for our players will reflect this. Avoiding that, to me, is more important than painting us the full picture. Why do you think otherwise? | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:25 - Jun 4 with 4492 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:37 - Jun 4 by SimonD |
Hunter, you've said twice in this thread that the board should be making us aware of the situation. My view is in doing so they obviously confirm to all other clubs that we are desperate for sales and any offer for our players will reflect this. Avoiding that, to me, is more important than painting us the full picture. Why do you think otherwise? |
I reckon the other clubs all know our financial situation….it isn’t hard to work out. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:34 - Jun 4 with 4464 views | QPRConor2000 |
Given we lose 2m a month, we need to cut our cloth from somewhere.
If Eze does get sold this summer, which could well happen then that would change the game.
Most of this squads contract expire next year, we have options to extend for 12 months with Sinclair and Dunne, so I expect us to be busy this summer.
think there is a chance we could be looking at 7 or even 8 signings this summer, with a fair few being sold on. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 12:36]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:37 - Jun 4 with 4455 views | sprocket |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:34 - Jun 4 by QPRConor2000 |
Given we lose 2m a month, we need to cut our cloth from somewhere.
If Eze does get sold this summer, which could well happen then that would change the game.
Most of this squads contract expire next year, we have options to extend for 12 months with Sinclair and Dunne, so I expect us to be busy this summer.
think there is a chance we could be looking at 7 or even 8 signings this summer, with a fair few being sold on. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 12:36]
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7 or 8? and the rest. We are looking at 10-15 IMO | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:46 - Jun 4 with 4408 views | QPRConor2000 |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:37 - Jun 4 by sprocket |
7 or 8? and the rest. We are looking at 10-15 IMO |
let me rephrase that - at least 7 or 8, possibly more. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:12 - Jun 4 with 4335 views | SimonD |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 12:25 - Jun 4 by Northolt_Rs |
I reckon the other clubs all know our financial situation….it isn’t hard to work out. |
They won’t know for sure. They won’t know our actual disallowable costs for every season concerned nor out additional covid costs we’ve deducted. I’ve estimated these in my numbers. We may already have a deal or two in place, they won’t know any add-ons that are coming due (these may not be restricted to just Eze). I don’t see the benefit from confirming our desperation for revenue. | | | |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:32 - Jun 4 with 4247 views | traininvain |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:32 - Jun 4 by SimonD |
Absolutely my thinking Jim. Someone who couldn't get into Palace's starting eleven, was not going to get a game for England. |
Eze’s has been close an England call up in the past. See below from the BBC story re his call up.
The 24-year-old, who is also eligible to play for Nigeria, was expected to be included in England's provisional 33-man squad for Euro 2020 two years ago but suffered an Achilles injury the same day as the squad announcement.
"We've liked him for a long time," said Southgate. "He was very unfortunate just before the Euros. We were going to call him into a prep camp and he got an injury.
"He has finished the season very strongly, he can play in a couple of positions across that front line. He has high quality and bursts of speed to go past players with those dribbling skills."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65696252.amp |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 14:51 - Jun 4 with 4061 views | DejR_vu |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:32 - Jun 4 by SimonD |
Absolutely my thinking Jim. Someone who couldn't get into Palace's starting eleven, was not going to get a game for England. |
Yeah, but Antti knows more than anyone else | |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:01 - Jun 4 with 4030 views | QPR_Jim |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:32 - Jun 4 by traininvain |
Eze’s has been close an England call up in the past. See below from the BBC story re his call up.
The 24-year-old, who is also eligible to play for Nigeria, was expected to be included in England's provisional 33-man squad for Euro 2020 two years ago but suffered an Achilles injury the same day as the squad announcement.
"We've liked him for a long time," said Southgate. "He was very unfortunate just before the Euros. We were going to call him into a prep camp and he got an injury.
"He has finished the season very strongly, he can play in a couple of positions across that front line. He has high quality and bursts of speed to go past players with those dribbling skills."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65696252.amp |
I was aware of that but for a time it looked like Eze had missed his opportunity. He came back from injury and Viera was manager, didn't hit the same highs under him and found himself sidelined. So it didn't seem to be imminent and you start to think of stories like Simon Barker where he missed his shot at an England cap due to injury and even now the Charlie Austin scenario of being called up but not used (although it would be madness to do that given he could go to play for Nigeria).
I have every confidence in Eze, think he'll play and do well, might even score and trigger more cash for us (speculation) but I can see why when writing that article it looked unlikely to happen. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:19 - Jun 4 with 3958 views | Sakura |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:02 - Jun 3 by Northernr |
I'm determined not to get into this with you. You have your very set viewpoint and won't be swayed so there's little point. You're accusing others of operating without figures while you present facts, you were presented with the figures by Simon Dorset, you admitted you hadn't even read it and then dismissed it anyway. We'll only find out whether you're right or not in time so again little point in trading blow for blow for months on end.
But I will clarify when you, as ever, misrepresent what I've said so on that...
1 - I'm not talking about the £4m Eze add ons. Though, incidentally, all of your calculations are based around these already being paid, which we don't know. There might be a payment for Palace qualifying for Europe which they haven't done, a payment for them finishing in the top half which they haven't done, a payment for an England cap which he hasn't got but might be about to. There's a lot of ifs, buts, unknowns and maybes which you're just taking as a guaranteed payment and saying "we can all agree on it", well no we can't actually.
But, anyway, I'm talking about the season where we declared a £4m loss, because of the Eze sale, winding out of the 3 year reporting period before the Warburton excess season does. So for a while we'll have the £24m loss on the books, without the good £4m loss season to negate it. This is where and why it gets tight, until the £24m loss rolls out itself, and without another significant sale which again we haven't had yet. Hunter has explained well why this next 18 months becomes really difficult because of that. Eze sale gave us loads of headroom, but that's rolling out. Warburton excess season chewed into a lot of headroom, that stays on a year longer. = Tight.
2 - Surely me saying "those players might well have an extra year option in their deal", based on every other contract Hoos and Ferdinand have done since they've been running the show, is me taking a positive viewpoint based on evidence, not the other way around? If they have got a year option that's a good, positive thing that I'm suggesting, and it's based on every other contract this exec team have done. Might be wrong, I'll try and find out next time I'm in shouting distance, but it's me being optimistic despite your tired narrative that I'm some sort of doom monger who just enjoys revelling around in the idea that the football club I love is in for some tricky times. |
Simon D’s figures were based on the published accounts which I had read. So I think your overstating any issue there as that’s literally what he based his article on.
As for the £4m loss rolling out. This was exactly what was being discussed and the point that both Simon D and I agreed on is that we need probably around £10m in savings to get there.
I said in earlier post I said it was £6m of savings Simon D said £10m. That was actually because I was counting the £4m of Eze add ons to have likely arrived already with England cap being the last part of that (not guaranteed but very likely now). I also added in the World Cup cash which Simon D didn’t so believe its 5.5m savings then further chunks likely can be reasonable be assumed to have come off that (As I already explained my thoughts around)
Simon D view on the Eze add ons is now says that maybe we need to get Eze to 100 appearances. If so that will happen by October/November so again seems reasonable to assume it will be triggered this coming season if not already done so.
Agree with you that there are a lot of’ ifs and maybes but its telling that you come down always on the side of the most possible negative interpretation of the possibilities. That add ons for Eze exist is known so its not some crazy out there hoping and against hope statement to get the £10m down to £6m of savings.
What you are now debating is how they might be triggered. I think it is far more reasonable to assume its due to appearances, goals and the reported England cap.
Where as you suggest things that even if Eze has an excellent Palace career may not be triggered which would be awful negotiating by the club if so. You say it “might be a payment for Palace qualifying for Europe which they haven't done”. That seems bizarre considering that they have only ever once qualified for Europe and that was via the Intertoto cup where they were knocked out in the third round. Would seem a less likely trigger than what I am suggesting.
As for the contract extension options or Dykes and Dickie, will find out pretty soon I imagine if you are right there. Hoping you are!! As it helps us in two major ways. On amortisation and it also strengthens our negotiating position. So here’s hoping you are right on that point!!!! | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:22 - Jun 4 with 3948 views | Sakura |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 13:18 - Jun 3 by SimonD |
According to Wikipedia, Eze has made 85 league appearances for Palace and scored 15 goals. I seriously doubt that, along with his potential England debut, is going to realise all £4m of the transfer add-ons. I’d expect an England cap to trigger some payment, and maybe 100 appearances to trigger some more, but would not expect those two combined to be more than half.
This was not an oversight in my article as has been suggested because it is all pure conjecture and an England cap looked miles away at that time. |
Simon, to be fair my original post responding to your article I did say “he was understandably more pessimistic at that time about a sell on fee then now seems possible”
I was more talking about overlooking the possibility of add ons. But yeah fair enough even those easy for you to overlook while Vieira was their manager.
Not having a go. Sorry if it came across that way. Enjoyed and appreciated your article | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:23 - Jun 4 with 3943 views | Sakura |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 22:43 - Jun 3 by derbyhoop |
What on earth makes you think we stand to gain £4m from Eze add ons. If its half that, I'd be surprised. |
This is an example of what makes me think we stand to gain £4m in add ons
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11706/12057091/eberechi-eze-crystal-pala
“Deal is £16m up front with £4m in potential add-ons; QPR have 20 per cent sell-on clause built into agreement”
Can you answer the same question in reverse? What on earth makes you think we DON’T stand to gain £4m from Eze add on? Why do you think it wont be even half that is that based on anything more than a pessimistic attitude?
Probability surely is weighted towards my viewpoint rather than yours based on the evidence. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 15:24]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:35 - Jun 4 with 3913 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:23 - Jun 4 by Sakura |
This is an example of what makes me think we stand to gain £4m in add ons
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11706/12057091/eberechi-eze-crystal-pala
“Deal is £16m up front with £4m in potential add-ons; QPR have 20 per cent sell-on clause built into agreement”
Can you answer the same question in reverse? What on earth makes you think we DON’T stand to gain £4m from Eze add on? Why do you think it wont be even half that is that based on anything more than a pessimistic attitude?
Probability surely is weighted towards my viewpoint rather than yours based on the evidence. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 15:24]
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…and because you are always right of course! | |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 18:10 - Jun 4 with 3645 views | QPR_Jim |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:23 - Jun 4 by Sakura |
This is an example of what makes me think we stand to gain £4m in add ons
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11706/12057091/eberechi-eze-crystal-pala
“Deal is £16m up front with £4m in potential add-ons; QPR have 20 per cent sell-on clause built into agreement”
Can you answer the same question in reverse? What on earth makes you think we DON’T stand to gain £4m from Eze add on? Why do you think it wont be even half that is that based on anything more than a pessimistic attitude?
Probability surely is weighted towards my viewpoint rather than yours based on the evidence. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 15:24]
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Technically it does say add-ons plural rather than a single add on, so why assume we're going to get the full £4m this summer just because he's been called up to the England squad.
It's reasonable to expect Crystal Palace to split that £4m up across multiple clauses to avoid getting hit by the full fee in one hit. It's also reasonable for us to want the money spread when we sold Eze, so if England appointed a manager who overlooked Eze there would be other ways of getting a proportion of the add-ons. | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 22:22 - Jun 4 with 3249 views | Hunterhoop |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 11:37 - Jun 4 by SimonD |
Hunter, you've said twice in this thread that the board should be making us aware of the situation. My view is in doing so they obviously confirm to all other clubs that we are desperate for sales and any offer for our players will reflect this. Avoiding that, to me, is more important than painting us the full picture. Why do you think otherwise? |
I haven’t said what you think I’ve said and are insinuating.
I think the Board (really Hoos and Ferdinand) need to explain what the vision is and how we’re going to try to achieve it. That includes a broad summary of how we’re attacking this coming season and what our financial situation is.
Their biggest failing in recent years is that they’ve not sold a vision to the fanbase or explained (and adhered to) our core strategies to achieve them.
There is, and has been since we backed Warburton 24 months ago, no clarity on what type of club we’re trying to be, what sort of team we’re trying to be, and what our objective is. Austin, Johansen, Wallace extension, Martin, Balogun, Adomah extension. Loans of Gray, Hendrick, Lowe. Loans of Laird, Ireogbunam, Roberts.
There is no consistent strategy here.
There was, prior to 24 months ago, and I felt there was clarity of what we were trying to be and how.
The situation we find ourselves in now is different to those before. You and I know that this next season is very hard with the Eze year dropping out of the 3 year rolling period. We have a newish manager who we know is all passion, blood and thunder, high press, but not a possession man. We will likely lose some of our better players this summer. Some fans may think we should be using any funds raised from sales to buy players.
I think the Board/Hoos/Ferdinand need to come out and say what the vision is, how we’re going to try to achieve it (with Ainsworth at the helm) and, in that journey, what that means for next year.
I’m not suggesting they tell all and sundry exactly how much cost we need to remove. Nor do I think it matters too much. All other clubs can see our past accounts, as you know. They can work it out for themselves. They’ll work it out on the open market anyway. It doesn’t matter. Other clubs will know where we are financially already.
What does matter, given the position we find ourselves in, is to have everyone connected with the club pulling in the same direction. Board, Hoos, Ferdinand, Ainsworth, coaches, players, and fans.
You never get everyone pulling in the same direction unless everyone is clear on the vision, strategies and tactics.
So, yeah, I think the Board need to come and explain things. What should we expect next year? How will this help us on our path to achieving the vision. Position this next season in a broader scale. Get people on the bus. Help them understand the broader picture.
If they don’t, people will fill the vacuum with their own ideas. Then everyone is pulling in different directions. At that point you go nowhere fast. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 22:32 - Jun 4 with 3191 views | dmm |
Good post Hunterhoop. You identify the one thing we can afford that could get us through next season. Vision, and one that, as you say, everyone gets behind. |  | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 22:48 - Jun 4 with 3142 views | derbyhoop |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 15:23 - Jun 4 by Sakura |
This is an example of what makes me think we stand to gain £4m in add ons
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11706/12057091/eberechi-eze-crystal-pala
“Deal is £16m up front with £4m in potential add-ons; QPR have 20 per cent sell-on clause built into agreement”
Can you answer the same question in reverse? What on earth makes you think we DON’T stand to gain £4m from Eze add on? Why do you think it wont be even half that is that based on anything more than a pessimistic attitude?
Probability surely is weighted towards my viewpoint rather than yours based on the evidence. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 15:24]
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We dont know what would trigger £4m of extras. An England cap might trigger 1 extra payment, but it wont be 4m worth.
Sell on revenue only happens if Palace are prepared to sell. That seems unlikely unless 1 of the big money teams decides to splash a lot of cash.
My brother was at Wycombe, when they did a deal with a PL club for a player. The deal had numerous add ons. None were ever activated. Some of the add ONS in these sort of deals are a bit like Lord Lucan riding the winner of the Grand National before jetting down to Puthey to cox the winner if the Boat Race. All on the same day !!! [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 22:55]
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| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:00 - Jun 5 with 2815 views | Sakura |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 18:10 - Jun 4 by QPR_Jim |
Technically it does say add-ons plural rather than a single add on, so why assume we're going to get the full £4m this summer just because he's been called up to the England squad.
It's reasonable to expect Crystal Palace to split that £4m up across multiple clauses to avoid getting hit by the full fee in one hit. It's also reasonable for us to want the money spread when we sold Eze, so if England appointed a manager who overlooked Eze there would be other ways of getting a proportion of the add-ons. |
I have said in pretty much every post I've made on this thread that the other parts are most likely triggered by appearances and goals in addition to the England cap.
He's played 85 times. Just finished the season as comfortably their top goal scorer. So only the biggest pessimist would think we haven't triggered those or very worst case won't have by the end of this season
It's quite funny to see the mental gymnastics Derby is going through to try and pretend it isn't likely the £4m in add ons will be met if not already
Strange he's being secret about the name of that ex-Wycombe player that went straight into a Prem teams first team and had a career as comparably successful as Eze?!
I can't think of who that would be...
Those suggesting that Eze hasn't had a good enough Palace career to trigger those add ons just doesn't feel credible and I think is evidence of my point that there is a chunk of the fan base who are over the top with their negativity | | | |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:57 - Jun 5 with 2676 views | sparkey |
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:59 - Jun 5 with 2657 views | QPR_John |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:57 - Jun 5 by sparkey |
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Watch him come back next season and play like he did when he first joined glide out of defence and score a screamer. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 10:00]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:00 - Jun 5 with 2654 views | dannyblue |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 09:57 - Jun 5 by sparkey |
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Up to £1m sounds like a fire sale.
Not saying I wouldn't take it mind, and surprised anyone's paying after last season.
Hoepfully Rob rebuilds his career, and we can get a more effective replacement for that money or less.
I've really enjoyed some of his moments. Subtle passing when pushing up as the right-side centreback, really good crossing from deep which we didn't use enough, and of course those long shots. But they're all pretty much a fading memory. And coloured by how he was so simply out manouevred by Mitrovic and the multiple horrors of the last 18 months or so. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 10:03]
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| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:15 - Jun 5 with 2567 views | terryb |
| Summer Transfer Rumours on 10:02 - Jun 5 by Northernr |
Just 700k up front  |
That would be close to the figure I would expect, but thought he might just trigger £1 million.
IMO Dieng, Dunne & Willock would be similar with Field & Dykes being low 7 figures. Chair hopefully would reach £2.5 to £3 million. | | | |
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