| Watch out Heywood 23:58 - Sep 26 with 4421 views | BrighouseDale |
UKIP is coming- http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29381909
"Referring to two forthcoming by-elections, where UKIP candidates will challenge previously Conservative and Labour seats, Mr Farage said: "We've now got the Labour Party as worried in Heywood and Middleton as we've got the Conservatives in Clacton." |  |
| I am the resurrection and I am the light. |
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| Watch out Heywood on 01:50 - Sep 27 with 2847 views | KenBoon |
People power and all that. But Middleton, Heywood and Castleton? had a good MP who cared about his constituents. It feels to me that voting for UKIP is voting to support a bigger machine based far from the constituency. |  | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 08:30 - Sep 27 with 2768 views | libertinedreamer |
| Watch out Heywood on 01:50 - Sep 27 by KenBoon |
People power and all that. But Middleton, Heywood and Castleton? had a good MP who cared about his constituents. It feels to me that voting for UKIP is voting to support a bigger machine based far from the constituency. |
A bigger party machine than the labour party??? Really? |  | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 11:42 - Sep 27 with 2625 views | 49thseason |
Compared with anodyne performance from Milliband at the Labour conference, Farage was a breath of fresh air in his opening comments at the start of the UKIP conference. The guy has humour, a sense of perspective and speaks human.
According to the MEN, Labour in Heywood is worried that they might lose to UKIP and given their refusal to discuss the Rochdale and Rotherham issues, their shocking dereliction of duty over the deficit and the impossible to implement "Mansion Tax" they really don't have much to offer the people of the constituency.
Maybe this time the "I vote Labour because my father and my grandfather did" brigade will have a look around and wonder if a change is not long overdue. |  | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 11:53 - Sep 27 with 2616 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Watch out Heywood on 11:42 - Sep 27 by 49thseason |
Compared with anodyne performance from Milliband at the Labour conference, Farage was a breath of fresh air in his opening comments at the start of the UKIP conference. The guy has humour, a sense of perspective and speaks human.
According to the MEN, Labour in Heywood is worried that they might lose to UKIP and given their refusal to discuss the Rochdale and Rotherham issues, their shocking dereliction of duty over the deficit and the impossible to implement "Mansion Tax" they really don't have much to offer the people of the constituency.
Maybe this time the "I vote Labour because my father and my grandfather did" brigade will have a look around and wonder if a change is not long overdue. |
Totally agree with your comments and your take on Farage.........just what this country need a right good kick up the ar*se and change from the drippy policy of Tories and Labour who invited all the dross of the world to set up here.
Get the Borders closed and reduce this stupid international donations to places like India who have their own ample resources (Nuclear capable) but decline to distribute it fairly.
Perhaps then Drake Street Rochdale might look a little bit less like downtown Bierut! | | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 13:41 - Sep 27 with 2531 views | D_Alien |
| Watch out Heywood on 11:53 - Sep 27 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Totally agree with your comments and your take on Farage.........just what this country need a right good kick up the ar*se and change from the drippy policy of Tories and Labour who invited all the dross of the world to set up here.
Get the Borders closed and reduce this stupid international donations to places like India who have their own ample resources (Nuclear capable) but decline to distribute it fairly.
Perhaps then Drake Street Rochdale might look a little bit less like downtown Bierut! |
Nuclear capable?
Haven't you heard about the Indian space probe currently orbiting Mars?
What planet are we on donating taxpayers money to them? |  |
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| Watch out Heywood on 14:26 - Sep 27 with 2465 views | nordenblue |
| Watch out Heywood on 11:53 - Sep 27 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Totally agree with your comments and your take on Farage.........just what this country need a right good kick up the ar*se and change from the drippy policy of Tories and Labour who invited all the dross of the world to set up here.
Get the Borders closed and reduce this stupid international donations to places like India who have their own ample resources (Nuclear capable) but decline to distribute it fairly.
Perhaps then Drake Street Rochdale might look a little bit less like downtown Bierut! |
Wait till Boony reads this he'll be spitting his horlicks all over his bingo card! | | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 15:03 - Sep 27 with 2434 views | KenBoon |
| Watch out Heywood on 14:26 - Sep 27 by nordenblue |
Wait till Boony reads this he'll be spitting his horlicks all over his bingo card! |
Not at all, NB. People can vote for whoever they want. I wouldn't vote for UKIP for many reasons, but then I don't know who to vote for because Labour & Torys are basically the same thing. Lib Dem are a joke and the Green Party don't knit enough yoghurt for my taste.
As for UKIP. I'll listen to them when they play more than one record. I'd like to see them seriously focus on important things for everyone, like jobs, quality of life, crime, etc. Leaving the EU wouldn't automatically fix all that.
Thanks and Good Night. | | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 15:55 - Sep 27 with 2374 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 15:03 - Sep 27 by KenBoon |
Not at all, NB. People can vote for whoever they want. I wouldn't vote for UKIP for many reasons, but then I don't know who to vote for because Labour & Torys are basically the same thing. Lib Dem are a joke and the Green Party don't knit enough yoghurt for my taste.
As for UKIP. I'll listen to them when they play more than one record. I'd like to see them seriously focus on important things for everyone, like jobs, quality of life, crime, etc. Leaving the EU wouldn't automatically fix all that.
Thanks and Good Night. |
Have you seen the Green Party policies, Ken? They are worth reading up on their website-you MIGHT be pleasantly surprised.
It's worth reading up on ALL the policies of all of these parties. Labour have sold out the working classes, the Tories have never been for the working classes, the Libs have have proven to be as untrustworthy as the Labour and Tories and the UKIP are living in cloud cuckoo land if they believe they could afford pay for all of their tax cutting by cutting down on foreign aid (which needs a real shake up) and leaving Europe, which is a VERY long way off.
Saying all of this, I do believe that UKIP will win the by-election in H and M but Labour will win the seat back in the General Election. Tories will be third, Greens might just pip the Libs. |  |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:09 - Sep 27 with 2349 views | KenBoon |
| Watch out Heywood on 15:55 - Sep 27 by 1mark1 |
Have you seen the Green Party policies, Ken? They are worth reading up on their website-you MIGHT be pleasantly surprised.
It's worth reading up on ALL the policies of all of these parties. Labour have sold out the working classes, the Tories have never been for the working classes, the Libs have have proven to be as untrustworthy as the Labour and Tories and the UKIP are living in cloud cuckoo land if they believe they could afford pay for all of their tax cutting by cutting down on foreign aid (which needs a real shake up) and leaving Europe, which is a VERY long way off.
Saying all of this, I do believe that UKIP will win the by-election in H and M but Labour will win the seat back in the General Election. Tories will be third, Greens might just pip the Libs. |
I heard a Green Party MEP on the Radio during the European elections. She spoke very well. Made lots of sensible points and, well, spoke too much sense. She almost seemed too sensible to be a Politician. | | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:11 - Sep 27 with 2345 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:09 - Sep 27 by KenBoon |
I heard a Green Party MEP on the Radio during the European elections. She spoke very well. Made lots of sensible points and, well, spoke too much sense. She almost seemed too sensible to be a Politician. |
Good point there Ken. When the vast majority of politicians speak shite, when one does not, it's hard to believe them. :) | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:12 - Sep 27 with 2342 views | D_Alien |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:09 - Sep 27 by KenBoon |
I heard a Green Party MEP on the Radio during the European elections. She spoke very well. Made lots of sensible points and, well, spoke too much sense. She almost seemed too sensible to be a Politician. |
Yeah. Would they know what to do with the Armed Forces? | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:20 - Sep 27 with 2328 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:12 - Sep 27 by D_Alien |
Yeah. Would they know what to do with the Armed Forces? |
Maybe use them as a defence force for THIS country . | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:22 - Sep 27 with 2320 views | D_Alien |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:20 - Sep 27 by 1mark1 |
Maybe use them as a defence force for THIS country . |
Isn't that what we're doing?
(Not expecting you to agree - just pointing out that defence doesn't mean sitting in barracks waiting for someone to invade) | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:26 - Sep 27 with 2303 views | KenBoon |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:12 - Sep 27 by D_Alien |
Yeah. Would they know what to do with the Armed Forces? |
No idea. But could they cut it back any more than the current coalition currently are? I would imagine they're against Trident.
If they knock on my door i'll ask them. | | | |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:31 - Sep 27 with 2286 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:22 - Sep 27 by D_Alien |
Isn't that what we're doing?
(Not expecting you to agree - just pointing out that defence doesn't mean sitting in barracks waiting for someone to invade) |
I accept that sometimes attack can be the best way of defending, but the way I see it a very large amount of work our armed forces are involved in is in stuff that in my and many people's opinions we should not be involved in, like in the Middle East etc.
Do we still need to have one of the largest militaries in the world?
Anyway, the Dale have scored, and I don't want to fall out over politics, but it would be worth thinking about what we as a country do spend our money on , in defence and overseas aids, and how we spend those monies. MAYBE spending more in some areas of aid could mean we need less military. [Post edited 27 Sep 2014 16:35]
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:34 - Sep 27 with 2276 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:26 - Sep 27 by KenBoon |
No idea. But could they cut it back any more than the current coalition currently are? I would imagine they're against Trident.
If they knock on my door i'll ask them. |
Indeed, Greens are against Trident, and I really support that policy, that would save BILLIONS of pounds. | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:34 - Sep 27 with 2271 views | D_Alien |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:31 - Sep 27 by 1mark1 |
I accept that sometimes attack can be the best way of defending, but the way I see it a very large amount of work our armed forces are involved in is in stuff that in my and many people's opinions we should not be involved in, like in the Middle East etc.
Do we still need to have one of the largest militaries in the world?
Anyway, the Dale have scored, and I don't want to fall out over politics, but it would be worth thinking about what we as a country do spend our money on , in defence and overseas aids, and how we spend those monies. MAYBE spending more in some areas of aid could mean we need less military. [Post edited 27 Sep 2014 16:35]
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No falling out here, it's just a debate.
For what it's worth though, our ability to maintain a military capability which stretches further than the end of the English Channel has a indefinable but very real effect on our ability to export goods and win contracts from countries who see that we're still in business on the world stage (albeit greatly diminished) - and that means more jobs for the UK. | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:41 - Sep 27 with 2244 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:34 - Sep 27 by D_Alien |
No falling out here, it's just a debate.
For what it's worth though, our ability to maintain a military capability which stretches further than the end of the English Channel has a indefinable but very real effect on our ability to export goods and win contracts from countries who see that we're still in business on the world stage (albeit greatly diminished) - and that means more jobs for the UK. |
Good debate, too.
I agree that there can be a positive effect in having a world wide force, but the actual amounts the invasion Iraq cost, is terrible, as far as money, lives and trouble it's brought.
If as a country we cut by half our armed forces we would still be in the top 20 of world powers militarily, and cutting the amount spent on Trident, we could spend the budget much better. | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:46 - Sep 27 with 2233 views | D_Alien |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:41 - Sep 27 by 1mark1 |
Good debate, too.
I agree that there can be a positive effect in having a world wide force, but the actual amounts the invasion Iraq cost, is terrible, as far as money, lives and trouble it's brought.
If as a country we cut by half our armed forces we would still be in the top 20 of world powers militarily, and cutting the amount spent on Trident, we could spend the budget much better. |
I'd argue that having Trident means we don't need to have a huge conventional military capability. Most of what happens comes down to intelligence-gathering, at which we're world class e.g. the SAS identifying the targets for precision strikes by the RAF
(This doesn't half help ease the tension of the last few minutes when you're winning away with ten men!) | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:57 - Sep 27 with 2199 views | TomRAFC |
Jim Dobbin was well loved by his constituency. I abhor what the labour party has become but I recently ended up spending a couple of days in the company of Liz McInnes before I had the faintest idea who she was. Very well spoken and of a similar ilk to Dobbin. Would probably do a good job even if most of her fellow party members are a shower of shite.
A vote for UKIP is a vote for a party purely looking to grow and not one in the interests of the local community. Farage is an excellent speaker I don't think anyone can deny him that. It's just that his prospective candidates are rife with unvetted fascist imbeciles. | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 19:39 - Sep 27 with 2081 views | ArthurDaley |
What is the point of voting for a party that has a leader in the early stages of Alzheimer's
What about immigration, millipede, oh I forgot.
What about the deficit millipede, oh I forgot.
About the Indian space rocket. It only cost about 750 million £, we gave them a billion £
in aid, so we got some change. What a bargain. |  |
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| Watch out Heywood on 16:28 - Sep 28 with 1872 views | R17ALE |
| Watch out Heywood on 15:55 - Sep 27 by 1mark1 |
Have you seen the Green Party policies, Ken? They are worth reading up on their website-you MIGHT be pleasantly surprised.
It's worth reading up on ALL the policies of all of these parties. Labour have sold out the working classes, the Tories have never been for the working classes, the Libs have have proven to be as untrustworthy as the Labour and Tories and the UKIP are living in cloud cuckoo land if they believe they could afford pay for all of their tax cutting by cutting down on foreign aid (which needs a real shake up) and leaving Europe, which is a VERY long way off.
Saying all of this, I do believe that UKIP will win the by-election in H and M but Labour will win the seat back in the General Election. Tories will be third, Greens might just pip the Libs. |
Having been at the game, I missed all of this. It's good to see you posting again 1mark1, as you're (I think) one of those left of centre who can engage in sensible debate without getting catty.
When you say Labour have sold out the working classes, which Labour era do you put that at the door of?
Also, and you know I'm not a fan of the Blair/Brown era, do you think their actions over Europe, gave birth to what we know today as ukip?
And finally, and I know this isn't a simple yes or no answer, do you think Britain could have avoided a lot of grief had they chosen not to side with America and invade Iraq back in the Barrow* era?
*Or was it Parkin? [Post edited 28 Sep 2014 16:30]
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| Watch out Heywood on 19:58 - Sep 30 with 1684 views | 1mark1 |
| Watch out Heywood on 16:28 - Sep 28 by R17ALE |
Having been at the game, I missed all of this. It's good to see you posting again 1mark1, as you're (I think) one of those left of centre who can engage in sensible debate without getting catty.
When you say Labour have sold out the working classes, which Labour era do you put that at the door of?
Also, and you know I'm not a fan of the Blair/Brown era, do you think their actions over Europe, gave birth to what we know today as ukip?
And finally, and I know this isn't a simple yes or no answer, do you think Britain could have avoided a lot of grief had they chosen not to side with America and invade Iraq back in the Barrow* era?
*Or was it Parkin? [Post edited 28 Sep 2014 16:30]
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Sorry for the late reply, got confused with there being another similar thread on this topic.
Thanks for the compliment re sensible debate. The following of course is my thoughts from a left wing perspective, I regard myself as a Green Socialist nowadays, so I know you won't agree with much I say, but that's ok.
Labour since about 1976 started the selling out, when Callaghan took over from Harold Wilson, who I regard as the 2nd best ever PM after Clement Attlee. Things got worse with the hopeless Kinnock who sold out the miners when they needed the backing of the LP and Trade Union movement. For a while John Smith gave some hope and I would love to have seen Michael Foot given a chance, but he was shit on by the right wing of the Labour movement.
Of course Blair was the one that managed to become Prime minister, but ANY leader would have won for Labour-it was time for a change. He could and should have been a Tory. If John Smith had lived, Labour would still had won in 1997 and I believe he would have been an excellent Labour leader and leader of the country, even though he was regarded as a moderate. He embraced all wings of the LP, including Benn and Skinner.
Re Blair and Brown and Europe. No, Thatcher started the Europe thing that UKIP and many in the Tory ranks now oppose. She signed the treaties-Masstrict I believe and despite Daily Mail rantings that she fought Europe, she is the one that agreed the budgets followed by later on, Major and Blair. Reason being the budgets were actually based on the economic strengths,etc of the EU countries.
Steve Parkin should never have taken us in to Iraq, and the mess is there to see now. Bush, Blair, Cheyney should be all in a prison somewhere as I believe they are war criminals. So yes I was definitely like the majority of the population against the invasion of Iraq.
People like Ghadiffi in Libya and Hussain in Iraq, though not very nice people, kept the real mad crazy idiots of extreme Muslims at bay, and it was the CIA that trained up Bin Laden's , Saudi Arabia funded them. | |
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| Watch out Heywood on 22:28 - Sep 30 with 1611 views | R17ALE |
| Watch out Heywood on 19:58 - Sep 30 by 1mark1 |
Sorry for the late reply, got confused with there being another similar thread on this topic.
Thanks for the compliment re sensible debate. The following of course is my thoughts from a left wing perspective, I regard myself as a Green Socialist nowadays, so I know you won't agree with much I say, but that's ok.
Labour since about 1976 started the selling out, when Callaghan took over from Harold Wilson, who I regard as the 2nd best ever PM after Clement Attlee. Things got worse with the hopeless Kinnock who sold out the miners when they needed the backing of the LP and Trade Union movement. For a while John Smith gave some hope and I would love to have seen Michael Foot given a chance, but he was shit on by the right wing of the Labour movement.
Of course Blair was the one that managed to become Prime minister, but ANY leader would have won for Labour-it was time for a change. He could and should have been a Tory. If John Smith had lived, Labour would still had won in 1997 and I believe he would have been an excellent Labour leader and leader of the country, even though he was regarded as a moderate. He embraced all wings of the LP, including Benn and Skinner.
Re Blair and Brown and Europe. No, Thatcher started the Europe thing that UKIP and many in the Tory ranks now oppose. She signed the treaties-Masstrict I believe and despite Daily Mail rantings that she fought Europe, she is the one that agreed the budgets followed by later on, Major and Blair. Reason being the budgets were actually based on the economic strengths,etc of the EU countries.
Steve Parkin should never have taken us in to Iraq, and the mess is there to see now. Bush, Blair, Cheyney should be all in a prison somewhere as I believe they are war criminals. So yes I was definitely like the majority of the population against the invasion of Iraq.
People like Ghadiffi in Libya and Hussain in Iraq, though not very nice people, kept the real mad crazy idiots of extreme Muslims at bay, and it was the CIA that trained up Bin Laden's , Saudi Arabia funded them. |
Cheers for the reply 1mark1. I had (wrongly) pigeon holed you in the Labour camp that refuses to engage in debate, but you've come good, with an excellent and interesting reply!
Funny you mention John Smith, I always quite liked him even though he was on t'other side.
I'm not sure who Cheyney is: Is he the ginger one off corrie? But, I fully agree with you on your overall view of the East.
I imagine, like me, you're appalled at the amount of money Blair is earning as a consultant to countries in that neck of the woods. He's since made himself a multi-millionaire out of wrong doings whilst in our office it seems to me.
Ramsey MacDonald would be spinning in his grave! [Post edited 30 Sep 2014 22:29]
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| Watch out Heywood on 22:57 - Sep 30 with 1566 views | YadHoDale |
| Watch out Heywood on 19:58 - Sep 30 by 1mark1 |
Sorry for the late reply, got confused with there being another similar thread on this topic.
Thanks for the compliment re sensible debate. The following of course is my thoughts from a left wing perspective, I regard myself as a Green Socialist nowadays, so I know you won't agree with much I say, but that's ok.
Labour since about 1976 started the selling out, when Callaghan took over from Harold Wilson, who I regard as the 2nd best ever PM after Clement Attlee. Things got worse with the hopeless Kinnock who sold out the miners when they needed the backing of the LP and Trade Union movement. For a while John Smith gave some hope and I would love to have seen Michael Foot given a chance, but he was shit on by the right wing of the Labour movement.
Of course Blair was the one that managed to become Prime minister, but ANY leader would have won for Labour-it was time for a change. He could and should have been a Tory. If John Smith had lived, Labour would still had won in 1997 and I believe he would have been an excellent Labour leader and leader of the country, even though he was regarded as a moderate. He embraced all wings of the LP, including Benn and Skinner.
Re Blair and Brown and Europe. No, Thatcher started the Europe thing that UKIP and many in the Tory ranks now oppose. She signed the treaties-Masstrict I believe and despite Daily Mail rantings that she fought Europe, she is the one that agreed the budgets followed by later on, Major and Blair. Reason being the budgets were actually based on the economic strengths,etc of the EU countries.
Steve Parkin should never have taken us in to Iraq, and the mess is there to see now. Bush, Blair, Cheyney should be all in a prison somewhere as I believe they are war criminals. So yes I was definitely like the majority of the population against the invasion of Iraq.
People like Ghadiffi in Libya and Hussain in Iraq, though not very nice people, kept the real mad crazy idiots of extreme Muslims at bay, and it was the CIA that trained up Bin Laden's , Saudi Arabia funded them. |
Agree with most of this - though I preferred Callaghan to Wilson.
And you hit the nail on the head regarding the culpability of Saudi Arabia for the majority of the woes of the middle east.
I have a certain sympathy for the anti-EC stance of UKIP, in that the EC is fundamentally a capitalist organisation. However their extreme right wing social policies make them insupportable.
Of course if Ned Moribund grew a pair and promised that a Labour government would hold a referendum on the EU, he'd piss the next election. In the meantime, I'll be voting Green... |  | | |
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