| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care 01:45 - Nov 22 with 17808 views | Daley_Lama |
Hi all
There have been two accidents at this junction the last two nights, both at approx 22:00
I perceive the following as the reason for both accidents, said without seeing either but asking about the cause of both.
If you are heading from Littleborough and wish to turn right onto Whitworth Road, there is a new filter lane but no filter light.
When the traffic from John St and Whitworth Road have had their turn, it is St Mary's Gates turn.
Traffic heading from Asda to Littleborough get a green light first.
15 seconds later traffic heading from Littleborough to Asda get a green light.
There is no filter light for the right turn onto Whitworth Road. They simply see a green light.
The lights heading from Asda to Littleborough however are still fully on green.
With no filter light cars heading from Littleborough turning onto Whitworth Road naturally do green for go and if a car is coming the other way - accident.
I don't think this presents much of an issue at day time as the weight of traffic along St Mary's gate means cars don't simply proceed
At 22:00 the traffic flow is different. There's little initial queueing traffic and cars are simply travelling at 40 with a green light ploughing into a car turning across them with a perceived green light.
If nothing else, please advise those you know to proceed with care. It's a BIG accident waiting to happen, the one I saw tonight had police, ambulance and fire engines but from what I saw nothing terminal.
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 21:02 - Nov 23 with 2693 views | dingdangblue |
I travelled the other way tonight and turned right at the lights onto John st - there is a right filter going that way!! Completely barmy if its not the same coming from the other direction. |  |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 21:26 - Nov 23 with 2668 views | rochdaleriddler |
I would argue very strongly that the council does not have enough money for vital services, however whilst cutting such services, our elected members prove they are not up to the job, and agree schemes such as these, and that's without boring everyone about the overpriced 1 riverside.Anyone with an ounce of sense would not have sanctioned these road works or paid for these consultants. Senior officers here and at Linkforlife are out of control, commanding vast salaries, and no councillors able to do their jobs properly [Post edited 23 Nov 2015 21:30]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:13 - Nov 23 with 2576 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 21:26 - Nov 23 by rochdaleriddler |
I would argue very strongly that the council does not have enough money for vital services, however whilst cutting such services, our elected members prove they are not up to the job, and agree schemes such as these, and that's without boring everyone about the overpriced 1 riverside.Anyone with an ounce of sense would not have sanctioned these road works or paid for these consultants. Senior officers here and at Linkforlife are out of control, commanding vast salaries, and no councillors able to do their jobs properly [Post edited 23 Nov 2015 21:30]
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The thing is, the very councillors who campaign under a banner of anti-austerity then proceed to find the money - within a budget they claim is "cut to the bone" - to finance these schemes.
Can they be trusted with public money? No. Should they be believed when they say they can't find more money for social care and other services which directly affect the well-being of the citizens they're supposed to serve. No.
You seem to have some insight into financial matters concerning local government. Would you care to put a ballpark figure on the amount of money you consider could've been saved through the schemes referred to? The roadworks, the consultancies, the "numerous other" PR staff employed to do... what? The over-priced council offices? Whatever the figure is, it'd go one heck of a way to meeting the so-called deficit in spending on social care.
[Post edited 23 Nov 2015 23:16]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:24 - Nov 23 with 2555 views | SuddenLad |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 21:02 - Nov 23 by dingdangblue |
I travelled the other way tonight and turned right at the lights onto John st - there is a right filter going that way!! Completely barmy if its not the same coming from the other direction. |
Two accidents at the Whitworth Road junction outside the Tanners Arms within the last half hour. Police/Ambulance in attendance. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:37 - Nov 23 with 2542 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:24 - Nov 23 by SuddenLad |
Two accidents at the Whitworth Road junction outside the Tanners Arms within the last half hour. Police/Ambulance in attendance. |
I really hope there isn't a fatality. If there is, members of our local government could be facing a charge of manslaughter. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:01 - Nov 24 with 2512 views | Daley_Lama |
Just been past, no signs of Ambulances or Fire Engines, battered up cars once more.
Ok, I don't want this to happen again. Can anybody with contacts on here please post so that I can shout tomorrow please
In particular I would like the following if anybody can provide. Equally, if anybody has the right contacts can they PM me in the morning so I can get through to people who can change things.
1 The company who is responsible for the timings on the lights
2. The councillor(s) who is responsible for this.
I'm not into blame but it needs sorting and it needs sorting tomorrow day time, it's an absolute shambles. [Post edited 24 Nov 2015 1:06]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 07:07 - Nov 24 with 2460 views | aleanddale |
Good effort Lama.
Let us all know if you get a response please.
In the meantime take care at that junction everyone!! |  | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 08:46 - Nov 24 with 2424 views | Clivert |
Another smash there around 8.00am this morning. A Tiger Taxi with it's front end all mangled, I didn't see the state of the other vechicle involved.
With two ambulances at the scene as well as plenty of Police surley the somebody from the emergency services has realised that something is wrong with the amount of times that they are attending accidents at that particular junction? |  | | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 09:14 - Nov 24 with 2403 views | Daley_Lama |
Spoken to the traffic light management company.
A job has already been raised and he will push to have it resolved. The gent said could not change things there and then.
I specifically asked if he could make the change to the lights to not let traffic proceed from Yorkshire Street until traffic from St Mary's has a red light and he said no, it is to do with sensors and requires to re-cut the road.
I don't know how traffic lights work but that sound like a lot of baloney.
He did promise to push for the job but he might promise the next person to do the same about another set of lights.
If anybody wants to follow this up (ie bug the hell out of them) then the direct number is 0161 2441511. Lots of people complaining about a single set of lights might help things move on.
I'm off to find a councillor to shout at now. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:42 - Nov 24 with 2341 views | DaleiLama |
Is the Observer aware of this? They ought to run with the story and raise its profile?
What about NW tonight too?
How many accidents does it take for someone to get their finger out?
This has gone beyond disgrace proportions now. |  |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 13:06 - Nov 24 with 2244 views | Daley_Lama |
Mailed the Ob with chapter and verse
Spoken to Rochdale Council transport dept and asked them to escalate. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 13:31 - Nov 24 with 2212 views | dingdangblue |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 13:06 - Nov 24 by Daley_Lama |
Mailed the Ob with chapter and verse
Spoken to Rochdale Council transport dept and asked them to escalate. |
Its a story on Rochdale Online facebook page now. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 14:43 - Nov 24 with 2156 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:13 - Nov 23 by D_Alien |
The thing is, the very councillors who campaign under a banner of anti-austerity then proceed to find the money - within a budget they claim is "cut to the bone" - to finance these schemes.
Can they be trusted with public money? No. Should they be believed when they say they can't find more money for social care and other services which directly affect the well-being of the citizens they're supposed to serve. No.
You seem to have some insight into financial matters concerning local government. Would you care to put a ballpark figure on the amount of money you consider could've been saved through the schemes referred to? The roadworks, the consultancies, the "numerous other" PR staff employed to do... what? The over-priced council offices? Whatever the figure is, it'd go one heck of a way to meeting the so-called deficit in spending on social care.
[Post edited 23 Nov 2015 23:16]
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i have no great insight, just what I observed when I worked there, I am not anti council, there are some good people there, one example I can give is that when Impact were given the contract to maintain the swimming baths, it was nearly ten times the cost of it being run in house.. Riverside building cost twice as much as its worth.Meanwhile the number of staff employed to do the actual work such as street cleaning,home caring etc has been cut to the bone | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 14:55 - Nov 24 with 2139 views | SuddenLad |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 14:43 - Nov 24 by rochdaleriddler |
i have no great insight, just what I observed when I worked there, I am not anti council, there are some good people there, one example I can give is that when Impact were given the contract to maintain the swimming baths, it was nearly ten times the cost of it being run in house.. Riverside building cost twice as much as its worth.Meanwhile the number of staff employed to do the actual work such as street cleaning,home caring etc has been cut to the bone |
I seem to remember reading that RMBC paid £6 million for the 'prime' land on which No.1 Riverside was built, but a subsequent 'independent' assessment and evaluation' reported that the commercial value 'did not exceed £300,000'
It's that kind of shocking and unnecessary expenditure that is often hidden from view when the council discuss cuts to budgets etc. and the roundly condemn the Government for causing the problems.
We all know where the cuts are made and where the axe falls, but the Council are far less 'open' about the shocking waste and unnecessary spending that takes place. [Post edited 24 Nov 2015 17:51]
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 15:09 - Nov 24 with 2031 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 14:55 - Nov 24 by SuddenLad |
I seem to remember reading that RMBC paid £6 million for the 'prime' land on which No.1 Riverside was built, but a subsequent 'independent' assessment and evaluation' reported that the commercial value 'did not exceed £300,000'
It's that kind of shocking and unnecessary expenditure that is often hidden from view when the council discuss cuts to budgets etc. and the roundly condemn the Government for causing the problems.
We all know where the cuts are made and where the axe falls, but the Council are far less 'open' about the shocking waste and unnecessary spending that takes place. [Post edited 24 Nov 2015 17:51]
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agreed, it bought businesses on Baillie st for a huge amount to shut them down, Baillies bar was one | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 17:23 - Nov 24 with 1958 views | howy10 |
I know, let's build a roundabout! Oops. |  | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 17:39 - Nov 24 with 1938 views | Daley_Lama |
"A concerned resident" 
http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/99424/concerns-ra
“The changes to the Townhead junction are designed to improve traffic flow and early indications suggest this is working. The vast majority of drivers are negotiating the new road layout safely but unfortunately, a small number of drivers have ignored the new traffic signals, putting themselves and other road users in danger. Drivers should never make manoeuvres without being certain it is safe to do so.”
Absolute tripe.
If early suggestions are that traffic flow has been improved by having 5 accidents closing part/all of the junction, then he can only be comparing it with when the junction was totally closed.
" a small number of drivers have ignored the new traffic signals"
There is no signal, hence why people are being driven into. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 18:16 - Nov 24 with 1884 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 17:39 - Nov 24 by Daley_Lama |
"A concerned resident"
http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/99424/concerns-ra
“The changes to the Townhead junction are designed to improve traffic flow and early indications suggest this is working. The vast majority of drivers are negotiating the new road layout safely but unfortunately, a small number of drivers have ignored the new traffic signals, putting themselves and other road users in danger. Drivers should never make manoeuvres without being certain it is safe to do so.”
Absolute tripe.
If early suggestions are that traffic flow has been improved by having 5 accidents closing part/all of the junction, then he can only be comparing it with when the junction was totally closed.
" a small number of drivers have ignored the new traffic signals"
There is no signal, hence why people are being driven into. |
At least we have a name now. Steve Reay, Head of Highways at Rochdale Borough Council.
And he's put it online that there were traffic signals which are "being ignored". As you rightly point out DL, there is no "signal to be ignored". There's a green light, and whilst in most circumstances drivers are familiar with not turning right without a filter light, there's a filter light in the opposite direction which shows the Highways people consider there's a risk, which THEY have ignored in the direction in which the accidents are happening. A good barrister would make mincemeat of Steve Reay during an inquest. I hope it doesn't come to that, but someone needs to tell him.
Cheers DL [Post edited 24 Nov 2015 18:18]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 19:00 - Nov 24 with 1833 views | DaleView |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 20:54 - Nov 22 by 1mark1 |
You would have to back through Rochdale On Line or Observer, or RMBC planning committees to work that one out, and if it was done by full Council or by Rochdale Township. If Rochdale Township, more than likely Lib Dems, as until the last 3 or 4 years Labour never had control of Rochdale Township.
Either way, any perceived bad running of the local authority since 1974 is NOT just down to Lab, but also Libs and Tories. Or to be positive, any good stuff has been down to all three parties. |
The road junction problem is not political, it's about incompetent traffic management. And that's not just in Rochdale, it's all over the country.
Maybe the politicians should take a more positive "common sense" stand but that might be asking a lot of them. I don't think that they are that interested. They follow the advice of the ( so called) experts and then hide behind them. The Sudden Roundabouts fiasco was just about the most stupid arrangement that could have been thought up. I attended one of the public meeting displays and suggested that traffic signals was a better and cheaper option. The response that I got from the expert was "there is no room for traffic signals constarined by the width of the road" Have these guys never seen American highways where most of the traffic signals are situated above the road? Short-sighted and out of their depth are these so-called traffic engineers. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 19:15 - Nov 24 with 1815 views | 1mark1 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 19:00 - Nov 24 by DaleView |
The road junction problem is not political, it's about incompetent traffic management. And that's not just in Rochdale, it's all over the country.
Maybe the politicians should take a more positive "common sense" stand but that might be asking a lot of them. I don't think that they are that interested. They follow the advice of the ( so called) experts and then hide behind them. The Sudden Roundabouts fiasco was just about the most stupid arrangement that could have been thought up. I attended one of the public meeting displays and suggested that traffic signals was a better and cheaper option. The response that I got from the expert was "there is no room for traffic signals constarined by the width of the road" Have these guys never seen American highways where most of the traffic signals are situated above the road? Short-sighted and out of their depth are these so-called traffic engineers. |
It's political in the sense that elected politicians from all of the political parties that have been elected, have failed to hold the employed officers of RMBC to account for previous cockups, that have been made. |  |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 21:59 - Nov 26 with 1604 views | roccydaleian |
Just been told there's been yet another smash at Townhead tonight.  |  | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:01 - Nov 26 with 1599 views | SuddenLad |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 21:59 - Nov 26 by roccydaleian |
Just been told there's been yet another smash at Townhead tonight. |
Yep. Vehicle overturned and on its' side.
Yet another bump earlier today about 2.00pm.  | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:29 - Nov 26 with 1560 views | deeplishblue |
At least it's near the infirmary |  |
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