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Hillsborough verdict of unlawful killing is what families and friends have waited 25 yrs for... The finger now points at the police but after just watching a report about the verdict and interviews the finger of blame also points at the FA....
Hillsborough was unfit to hold such a high profile game at the time so why did the FA deem it ok to hold such a game!....
So i my eyes dont just point the finger at the Police point it at the FA aswell......
My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds
What made Hillsborough unfit to host a football match,there was many many games held there before this happened without similar consequences and many after? There are still lots of grey areas for me from what I've read on the story
What made Hillsborough unfit to host a football match,there was many many games held there before this happened without similar consequences and many after? There are still lots of grey areas for me from what I've read on the story
What made Hillsborough unfit to host a football match,there was many many games held there before this happened without similar consequences and many after? There are still lots of grey areas for me from what I've read on the story
Spurs v Wolves 1981 at Hillsborough could easily have been a disaster due to serious overcrowding at Leppings Lane. That said, in 1988 Liverpool played Forest at the same ground without any problems.
Interesting views from Forest fans about the 89 game at the link below. Some of them were there that day.
Spurs v Wolves 1981 at Hillsborough could easily have been a disaster due to serious overcrowding at Leppings Lane. That said, in 1988 Liverpool played Forest at the same ground without any problems.
Interesting views from Forest fans about the 89 game at the link below. Some of them were there that day.
The thing that stands out for me is the subsequent changing of written statements / police notebooks in the aftermath, often by junior policemen/women under duress from their so-called superiors. That is truly criminal, and prosecutions should follow. Many of those in charge retired on fat pensions. They should also be revised, but they won't be.
Spurs v Wolves 1981 at Hillsborough could easily have been a disaster due to serious overcrowding at Leppings Lane. That said, in 1988 Liverpool played Forest at the same ground without any problems.
Interesting views from Forest fans about the 89 game at the link below. Some of them were there that day.
I wen't to the 88 game to tick "FA cup semi final" off my bucket list. Can't say it struck me as particularly dangerous ground at the time as i walked in
I wonder how many of these health & safety experts give their opinion with the benefit of hindsight? Not saying they are wrong but was the level of safety at Hillsborough the same as every other similar ground at that time? It may have been unsafe compared to today's standards because todays standards were triggered by that event
Glad I went in 88 because I had a ticket to the disastrous game ( which I actually passed on o a doctor who ended up on the pitch helping people). As I had ticked off attending an FA cup semi I went to watch the Dale instead ( I think we were at home to Bradford)
I wen't to the 88 game to tick "FA cup semi final" off my bucket list. Can't say it struck me as particularly dangerous ground at the time as i walked in
I wonder how many of these health & safety experts give their opinion with the benefit of hindsight? Not saying they are wrong but was the level of safety at Hillsborough the same as every other similar ground at that time? It may have been unsafe compared to today's standards because todays standards were triggered by that event
Glad I went in 88 because I had a ticket to the disastrous game ( which I actually passed on o a doctor who ended up on the pitch helping people). As I had ticked off attending an FA cup semi I went to watch the Dale instead ( I think we were at home to Bradford)
Shocking by the police on the day and the cover up subsequently.
Pleased for the 96 dead (rip ) and the families. It's been nearly 3 decades for this to get sorted the whole scenario is a sorry mess.
The only bit I would question was the no blaim at all ( Liverpool fans ).. The forest fans mention this on their forum.
Thousands turned up with forged tickets or no ticket at all. If only ticket holders had gained entry I am pretty sure that the day would have passed without the same horrendous consequence.
Shocking by the police on the day and the cover up subsequently.
Pleased for the 96 dead (rip ) and the families. It's been nearly 3 decades for this to get sorted the whole scenario is a sorry mess.
The only bit I would question was the no blaim at all ( Liverpool fans ).. The forest fans mention this on their forum.
Thousands turned up with forged tickets or no ticket at all. If only ticket holders had gained entry I am pretty sure that the day would have passed without the same horrendous consequence.
Now for the inevitable prosecutions.
Agree on your 2nd point and find it difficult to understand also.
"Fans had not contributed to the danger unfolding at the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesday's ground on 15 April 1989, the inquests concluded earlier."
The CCTV footage at the time showed the exit gates opening and Liverpool fans in huge numbers rushing in. Large numbers were still queuing/left outside...far more in number than the Leppings Lane could hold/sell tickets for. The verdict is saying this did not contribute to the crush???
Agree on your 2nd point and find it difficult to understand also.
"Fans had not contributed to the danger unfolding at the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesday's ground on 15 April 1989, the inquests concluded earlier."
The CCTV footage at the time showed the exit gates opening and Liverpool fans in huge numbers rushing in. Large numbers were still queuing/left outside...far more in number than the Leppings Lane could hold/sell tickets for. The verdict is saying this did not contribute to the crush???
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 9:49]
That's exactly what the verdict says.
There is a media storm around this subject and the police were woeful in pre planning - pre game - morning of the match - hour leading up to kick off - post match cover up....
No Safety certificate in place and a woefully inadequate ground the FA are equally culpable. The Police - FA and to some extent SW should hang there heads in shame.
The not so easy to read and will never be mentioned in any media outlet is that all the authorities were expecting 25000 and 27000 turned up... 2000 extra in an already packed end of the ground. What happened next was awful and the thousands that travelled without tickets and stormed an incorrectly opened gate have been exonerated.
The jury made the decision there was NO Blaim at all with the Liverpool fans... a popular decision but one that will be discussed for years to come I suspect.
Summat doesn't sit right but 96 died and I guess this is better left as it was a sorry mess left right and centre.
There is a media storm around this subject and the police were woeful in pre planning - pre game - morning of the match - hour leading up to kick off - post match cover up....
No Safety certificate in place and a woefully inadequate ground the FA are equally culpable. The Police - FA and to some extent SW should hang there heads in shame.
The not so easy to read and will never be mentioned in any media outlet is that all the authorities were expecting 25000 and 27000 turned up... 2000 extra in an already packed end of the ground. What happened next was awful and the thousands that travelled without tickets and stormed an incorrectly opened gate have been exonerated.
The jury made the decision there was NO Blaim at all with the Liverpool fans... a popular decision but one that will be discussed for years to come I suspect.
Summat doesn't sit right but 96 died and I guess this is better left as it was a sorry mess left right and centre.
Happen that's why it was a majority verdict.
I for one wouldn't want two years taken out of my life (with all due respect to those who died) to sit on a jury where the chances are that the majority would be swayed by the culpability shown by the police into delivering exactly that verdict. It wouldn't have been easy to sit in that jury room and dissent from that, but one or more brave souls did.
Agree on your 2nd point and find it difficult to understand also.
"Fans had not contributed to the danger unfolding at the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesday's ground on 15 April 1989, the inquests concluded earlier."
The CCTV footage at the time showed the exit gates opening and Liverpool fans in huge numbers rushing in. Large numbers were still queuing/left outside...far more in number than the Leppings Lane could hold/sell tickets for. The verdict is saying this did not contribute to the crush???
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 9:49]
Yes, the inquest findings are absolutely correct - the fact that some fans without tickets get in (we'll never know how many or if any cos of the Police incompetence & corruption) doesn't mean people should die. The fact that sort of thing has, does & always will happen is why we have the Police. Their job is to prevent illegality & protect the innocent. Their basic job on our behalf was & is to set in place systems to identify and control illegal entrance to the ground in a way which ensures the safety of all. That 96 died and their families & friends had lives for ever blighted is devastating; as too the deaths @ Valley Parade & Ibrox, BUT the biggest crime is the deliberate smear by the Police, Thatcher, The Sun & the rest of the establishment of the fans who died, of any Liverpool fan, of any football fan. That attempt to blame, condemn and deny fuels all abuse of power (and all power abuses). Let Hillsborough be the warning to all of us - always question & challenge the claims of powerful people when they say - 'it's all their fault!'
It wasn't the football supporters who perverted the course of justice, it was the establishment. We can debate all we want about whether who was responsible for the deaths, and whether you or I agree with that aspect of the verdict. But there is no debate about the cover up.
I think the 'fans not to blame' decision is so up to date. I've been to Dale games where I've seen plenty of people in a mess from drinking too much but I don't think I could say that the Dale fans were hammered. I've seen aggression and fighting at football grounds but I'm not sure I could say the fans were hooligans. At what point does a minority become enough to be labelled 'the fans'? I have no idea of the answer to that one and I guess that is why that particular decision was split. I'm sure some that exonerated the fans accept that a minority of fans were drunk and poorly behaved. Very tough call but, as previously said by others, the real problem was the cover up afterwards, that was totally unacceptable.
It wasn't the football supporters who perverted the course of justice, it was the establishment. We can debate all we want about whether who was responsible for the deaths, and whether you or I agree with that aspect of the verdict. But there is no debate about the cover up.
Agree on your 2nd point and find it difficult to understand also.
"Fans had not contributed to the danger unfolding at the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesday's ground on 15 April 1989, the inquests concluded earlier."
The CCTV footage at the time showed the exit gates opening and Liverpool fans in huge numbers rushing in. Large numbers were still queuing/left outside...far more in number than the Leppings Lane could hold/sell tickets for. The verdict is saying this did not contribute to the crush???
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 9:49]
Could be interpretation
By Fans do they mean the ones that were crushed - In this case clearly not to blame as they were in early and near the front
or do they mean the 2,000 extra fans who rushed in after the gates were opened who i would have assumed did contribute, albeit not intentionally, to the crush
or do they mean all the fans in which case its a bit vague TBH
However as pointed out what is clear is a 27 year cover up - disgrace
By Fans do they mean the ones that were crushed - In this case clearly not to blame as they were in early and near the front
or do they mean the 2,000 extra fans who rushed in after the gates were opened who i would have assumed did contribute, albeit not intentionally, to the crush
or do they mean all the fans in which case its a bit vague TBH
However as pointed out what is clear is a 27 year cover up - disgrace
Not all the deceased were in early at the front, 30 were part of the rush once the gate was opened.
Yes, the inquest findings are absolutely correct - the fact that some fans without tickets get in (we'll never know how many or if any cos of the Police incompetence & corruption) doesn't mean people should die. The fact that sort of thing has, does & always will happen is why we have the Police. Their job is to prevent illegality & protect the innocent. Their basic job on our behalf was & is to set in place systems to identify and control illegal entrance to the ground in a way which ensures the safety of all. That 96 died and their families & friends had lives for ever blighted is devastating; as too the deaths @ Valley Parade & Ibrox, BUT the biggest crime is the deliberate smear by the Police, Thatcher, The Sun & the rest of the establishment of the fans who died, of any Liverpool fan, of any football fan. That attempt to blame, condemn and deny fuels all abuse of power (and all power abuses). Let Hillsborough be the warning to all of us - always question & challenge the claims of powerful people when they say - 'it's all their fault!'
Regarding the corruption. Many years ago, before the all seating stadiums I was drinking in my local on Cup Final evening. A guy came in about 10.00 who'd just been to the game ( it could have been the Utd v Southampton game in the 1970's ).
We were chatting about the game.
I said " How did you get a ticket ? " . He said " The same way I always do, in fact I've got a ticket for next years final ! "
I said " You can't have " .
He said " I have, have a look " . With that he showed me a £10 note ( probably worth about £50 or so now ).
He then said. " I just walk up to a certain turnstile, put that down and the guy lets me through ".
Hindsight and changed standards of safety are both wonderful things.I am sure that the decision of the Police to open the gates seemed the right one at the time.However the statements and finger pointing since are nothing short of shameful
Another thought as to whether people in Authority were quick to point their fingers towards the Liverpool fans was the fact that this tragedy occurred soon in relative terms after Liverpool fans were deemed responsible for the events at the European Cup Final in Belgium which resulted in many deaths there
The gates were opened as an act of desperation following zero crowd control measures being taken in the lead up to the game leading to a crush developing right outside the turnstiles, whereas in previous years the crowd had been managed a lot better by a different copper than Dukinfield, who had no experience in it.
The gates were opened as an act of desperation following zero crowd control measures being taken in the lead up to the game leading to a crush developing right outside the turnstiles, whereas in previous years the crowd had been managed a lot better by a different copper than Dukinfield, who had no experience in it.
Bang on Rod. That's all there is to it as to what happened on the day. A guy not knowing what to do.
The lying and slurring of fans, a city, a class (us?) by the South Yorkshire police desperate to sidestep and all those quick to rally around according to their own prejudices, esp. The Sun. The refusal to admit the simple facts of what happened. The hiding behind position over all these years. That's what cuts.
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