Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Burnley Game Observations
Wednesday, 8th Nov 2017 09:57

After three days I plucked up the courage to watch the highlights of the Burnley game and I noticed several things that no one seems to be commenting on.

The defeat to Burnley sparked the usual comments about the usual players and an understandable reaction from the Saints fans, but now having watched the highlights, it's made me think that most of the uproar is based moe on prejudice towards certain players than what went on in the match.

1. Nathan Redmond

He had just about our best chance with a decent run and shot that produced a great save., he also created at least one good chance, playing in Ryan Bertrand in the second half for a decent shot on goal.

But no one mentioned that anywhere or the fact that most of our chances do seem to involve him somewhere along the line yet all I hear from fans is that he did nothing in the game on Saturday or at all all season.

Against Burnley at least, perhaps he did not have a good game, but he was the one player who did have a decent shot on goal that needed saving and he did move the ball quickly when we attacked to create for others, yet no one has given him credit for this, perhaps he is not the best player, but from the chances created he was our most effective, praise whoever you want, but Redmond did more than anyone else in terms of contribution, it might have only been one decent chance and a couple of potential assists but that was more than anyone else.

Our two central defenders.

They kept going walkabout too often in the final quarter of the game, once Burnley had two attackers on they were all at sea and neither took charge of the situation.

Yoshida was totally at fault for the goal a complete lapse in concentration, this is not me being anti Yoshida, having now watched it several times, Vokes was left completely unmarked with a free header, Yoshida suddenly found that Vokes had pulled off him a yard and now had a free header.

This was not the first occasion, minutes earlier, Vokes had played a one two and then run off of Yoshida who then trotted back leaving Vokes to be played in down our left and get a shot in at Forsters near post, again total lack of awareness and Van Dijk was not exactly holding the line behind Yoshida so neither came out of this little incident cobvered in glory

Fraser Forster

To blame Forster for the goal was harsh, the header was a free header from fairly close range, he could pick his spot and he buried in in the corner, it was also headed down which makes it doubly hard to save as it bounced up about 2 yards from the line.

Was Forster slow to react ? to be fair to him the ball was almost past him a split second after it left Vokes head, you see a lot of keepers rooted to the spot for goals like this, Forster reacted and got near it leading some to think he should have saved it, reality was he had no chance, even if he had dived before Vokes had headed it.

Up to this point Forster had done well and commanded the box, he didn't have a lot to do, but he did it as you would expect. He had a right to expect his central defenders not to allow a free header from this range.

Attacking Play

We got into great wide positions and put in decent crosses on quite a few occasions, yet they rarely resulted in an attempt on target as no one got on the end of them, the crosses were just where you would want them but no one attacks them, possibly because there is only Gabbiadini in the box and it is certainly not his game

This reinforces my point that our build up play is not set up for who we play up front, if we are going to play down the line and cross the ball then we need a big striker who can attack the ball, this is not Gabbiadini's game, he needs balls played into channels or feed off another striker.

We cannot move the ball quickly, our build up passing is laboured from the back through midfield and this means that the opposition can regroup, get behind the ball and not get caught on the back foot.

Burnley won the game because they switched to two up front, it confused our defence who struggled to pick up two players, we did nothing like this, we kept doing the same things till the final ten minutes when we broought on Long for the usual free for all where no one can quite work out who is playing where.

I can totally understand the frustrations of Saints supporters, I am just as livid myself, but I am looking at what was the root cause and not just blaming the usual scapegoats, we should be winning and losing as a team and we are not doing that, the players know that the formation and tactics are not getting the best out of them, they know they are square pegs in round holes and they know they should be being played to their strengths but are not.

This brings the manager into question, the selections on Saturday were strange, having brought in Hoedt for a man of the match performance at Brighton he dropped him for no apparent reason, Yoshida may well have been upset at being dropped at the Amex and could claim that he did not deserve to be dropped, I would not argue with that, but he would not argue that Hoedt having put in the performance should have stayed in the team. Especially since the pattern of the game was obvious well before kick off and Hoedt is a great build up player.

Pellegrino seems unable to make hard decsions, he will play his star names like Van Dijk, Lemina and Gabbiadini whatever their form, in the rest of the team it is baffling, he seems unable to change tactics, although I will say the nature of the squad means he has little choice in how he should be playing, but he just doesn't seem to see it that way.

He seems to just hope that one day it will all click, but the reality is it won't and the more we continue the worse it will get as the players get fed up doing their jobs but seeing their hard work go to waste.

The commentary on the hghlights I watched said just as much, they questioned why we played wingers but only one small forward up front, they pointed out that we had no one in the box, they poined out that our build up was too slow and laboured and they questioned why we did not play a passing player like Ward Prowse in a game like this or put a second forward alongside Gabbiadini to get on the end of the crosses.

These were all the points I raised ahead of the game in the previews, now if i can see it, if the pundits can see it, then why can't the manager !

Photo: Action Images



Please report offensive, libellous or inappropriate posts by using the links provided.



Keesie66 added 10:11 - Nov 8
Nice post..... to be 100% right I do believe Hoedt was carrying an injury as he has also withdrawn from the Dutch squad this week (or was this just a convenient excuse as he was on the bench and you wouldnt put an unfit player on the bench right instead of for example Jack Stephens).... too much funny, unclear business going on but whatever that is it is clear MP has no clear plan with regards to how to get the team playing differently..... definitely is a huge miss not having a target nr.9, our goalscoring rate slowly deteriorated after Pelle left and has never recovered .....
3

LordDZLucan added 10:48 - Nov 8
A better article than some of your recent efforts, Nick, as it was more balanced. But let me make this point. It is entirely probable that the opposition is going to get at least one very good chance in a game and score. Therefore we shouldn’t start over analysing the perceived shortcomings of the defence and the goalkeeper when a goal goes in. It is to be expected. Our problem is at the other end and at present can be summed up in one word…………..Gabbiadini. He is not a bad player…far from it. He is just playing in the wrong position. He is not a Number 9 and that was all too evident when he glanced a gilt-edged opportunity wide with his quiff in the 2nd half. That header was more straightforward than the one that Sam Vokes scored with. I would like to see Gabbiadini play wide right off a proper Number 9.
7

saintmark1976 added 11:19 - Nov 8
It is your site Nick and like the rest of us you are entitled to your opinion. However,can I suggest that instead of picking over one defeat in isolation you try and take a more global view.

What is clearly evident to the vast majority of fans is as follows:-

Forster has lost it completely.

Our central defenders now are no beter than the previous Yoshida/Stephens combination.

Redmond is at best a Championship player.

Tadic is a diving "sand dancer" with no end product.

J W P is a consistent under performing easy option side ways ball passer with the very rare good corner or free kick.

In my opinion until the management deal with the problems above we will continue our drift downward with every chance of playing in the Championship next season.












6

BaselSaint added 11:19 - Nov 8
You reminded of one important point that a commentator mentioned during the game, that our build up play is laboured and slow and there is no good outcome but once or twice it was fast and it made chances straight away.
10

SanMarco added 11:39 - Nov 8
"This reinforces my point that our build up play is not set up for who we play up front". Of course - it is a structural problem created by the transfer committee. Neither CP nor MP have had the resources to do much about it. Unless we believe they are both poor managers who should never have been appointed - and isn't it the same person who IS the transfer committee who appoints the manager(s)?

We need to get to January and sell players not fit for purpose and bring in some that are. A target man who can head the ball (a bit like Pelle) and a quick attacking MF/forward with an eye for goal (a bit like Mane) would be top of my list. We should judge the transfer committee just like they (he) judges managers - no past glories but how are we are doing NOW. All the MP out chanters ought to wonder why be brought no attacking players in during the summer - CP was sacked due to the goal drought and now it is "MP out" due to exactly the same problem. The fact that Lemina and Hoedt are good signings in irrelevant if we can't score goals.
8

NewburySaint added 13:26 - Nov 8
You write "This brings the manager into question".
Following on which also means the appointment of this Manager should be questioned.
They knew what type of Manager they were employing, nay they have found a Manager to match the blueprint of how the club want to play but our Executive Borad still seem to stubborn to realise that the way they want us to play is no longer a winning way of football.

But then we're not allowed to criticise our Executive Board are we because they are never wrong?!
9

BoondockSaint added 13:50 - Nov 8
"Watched the highlights"? That couldn't have taken you long!

Maybe the reason JWP wasn't put on for his passing is because he mostly passes sideways or backwards and Forster is having enough trouble with opposition passes as it is!

Nick, you need to look at who is bringing in these players and training them.
Pellegrino has been handed the same sow's ear as Puel.

Our glaring problem is not scoring since Pelle and Mane left, and Les and the board have not brought in enough attacking players and refused to hire a manager known for attacking play, and just in case the players get in their head to go forward on their own, the Grim Reaper Eric Black is brought in.

This is the new "Southampton Way"-play for a draw and hope for 40 points.
8

landerwal added 13:57 - Nov 8
Possession is the name of our game. The Burnley game was now standard fare. Whenever Forster had the ball he would keep it in his hands so long that Burnley were back in their own half and chatting amongst themselves about the weather. But that did not matter, now pass the ball between the back four for a bit then maybe back to Forster so he didn't feel left out then maybe, just maybe, start moving forward, but backwards if possession might be lost just like last season. Nothing have changed since Puel left. Why? Surely if a new manager comes in tactics change, but they haven't, which makes one think that perhaps the way the team are playing in the Premiership is dictated from the top. Pellegrino prefers three at the back, but only played that formation against Wolves in the League Cup. A free hand for once? Why play in our uninspiring way scraping one nil wins or a point when three were there begging? Maybe the answer is money. Last season an 8th place earns us in the region of £125million, as opposed to about £80 million in 2015/16 with a 6th place. Better to play the way we do and survive with the huge rewards that entails than play an attacking game which might result in the unthinkable, relegation!! Puel was sacked last season supposedly for his negative tactics or was it because he refused to play as dictated by others. There again, we could just play the way we do because we are crap.
9

TimSaint added 14:46 - Nov 8
My post on the forum part of this site, for those that don't read that area of this site....

- Redmond is supposed to be a creative player. He should be shooting at least 5 times a game, putting in at least a similar number of crosses and playing in his full back a similar number of times too. (Tadic also, may I add). He just does not seem to be the player he was last season, has become predictable and reluctant to take his man on, instead opting for a step over and a backward or sideways pass. If he was doing a good job this season, he would have been picked for the (heavily depleted) England squad again this week.

- VvD seemed more up for it than in previous games, but Yoshi's (and Cedric's) game was littered with unforced errors - especially early on. I don't know why Hoedt was dropped, but Yoshi should have done much better with the goal.

- FF was equally to blame for the goal as Yoshi. He had one shot to save all game and was caught out. It wasn't the most powerful of headers, yet he was flat footed and got beaten by a weak header, just like at Brighton.

- With two thirds of the possession, to only create a dozen chances is scandalous, especially with all the so called creative players we had on the pitch. We should have been peppering their goal. Burnley were there for damage limitation for the first 75 mins - as are many teams are that come to St Marys, so with the expected dominance of possession, we should have 2 up top and put in many more crosses.
- We are limited with one striker. Gab makes many great runs, but half the time he is not seen by the person with the ball and the with the other half, the ball is with someone not capable of finding him. He therefore gets frustrated, drops back to touch the ball and is then out of position for the rest of that move. He then gets subbed for not contributing and it is always a like for like sub with Long or Austin, when he should be having someone to play along side him.
12

wessexman added 16:22 - Nov 8
Begs the obvious question....how long can this continue before he is sacked? But...but...then what? Who is available? The new manager will still have to soldier on with this squad until January.
6

aceofthebase added 16:51 - Nov 8
Nick I wish you had examined the Brighton game in such detail and you would have seen a non-existant challenge by Cedric against Murray which cost us a goal and which you could have harped on about for the rest of the season. However, your needle is stuck into Yoshida.
5

steve73 added 18:35 - Nov 8
I don't think he should be fired just yet. Imagine waking up and hearing this on the radio: 'Mauricio Pellegrino has been relieved of his duties and Eric Black has been placed in charge as caretaker manager. Les Reed says 'Eric has plenty of experience in the role so there is no need to rush in the search for a replacement'.

Things could always be worse.
3

saintpp added 20:03 - Nov 8
As you say there is a prejudice against certain players.
After the brighton match i saw comments on how shit redmond was well he was only on the pitch 15 minutes! Fans forget he was equal top scorer along with austin last season.
Mentioning austin what manager would continually leave the previous season equal top scorer on the bench?
Another one is 'Boufal does nothing'
Yeah right what apart from the assist at newcastle the pass for long to get a penalty the winner v west brom and earned the free kick for Jwp.
Makes me wonder if fans actually watch the games or just repeat whats being said by the nearest moaner.
I study replays of every one of our games the whole 90 minutes and it hasnt been fun this year but think some other posters should do they same with an open mind before they slag players off.
Timsaint mentioned that Vokes header was weak ...it was placed right inside the post with good force gordon banks wouldnt have got that and as Nick says some keepers wouldnt even have mived .The fact he got near it makes it look like he should have saved it..dont think some posters know how big a goal mouth is.
Moaners gotta moan and haters gotta hate.
-1

PezzaSaint added 21:14 - Nov 8
Nick, sorry, but think your wrong about the Vokes header. Yes, it was well placed, but had modest power and FF took to long to move. For me he was to flat footed, just like at Brighton for Murray's header. He stands on his heels rather than the balls of his feet and being such a big man doesn't help his nimbleness. He is an excellent instinctive shot stopper, I remember fondly a 0-0 with Arsenal away when he was awesome, but he gets beaten to often from distance where often he has simply been rooted to the spot.
4

skiptonsaint added 22:32 - Nov 8
I agree that as Austin was our top scorer he should come back in the team and is prob the closest we have to a player who can play with his back to goal like Pelle did at least until Jan. He just looks a bit slower and less effective in the short time we have seen him this season. Then try Gabs behind on the wing cutting in. It is about the only attacking combo left to try
1

A_Saint_in_Stoke added 13:26 - Nov 9
I completely agree with all your points Nick, as produced by my posts since the w/e.

I AM SO BLOODY FRUSTRATED ( Like many fans on here ) I as well as you and thousands of our fans KNEW how Burnley would be set up and play - Plus the team selection AND the selections of the substitutes ....... It just Beggers belief - If you pardon MP * although he should be getting a grip by now ) what the f'ing hell is 2'nd in command Eric Black is advising? SERIOUSLY with so many things that were SO WRONG A football inquiry would conker that a Far East betting group were setting up Saints to lose. I can't see with MP attitude that things will change - that is WHY I suggested bringing in " An advisor " to come in to help & advise MP ..... and sack Black.

I do agree with you that although we are weak in the " striking department " we already have a decent set of players - we just need the correct person in charge to the play them in their own comfortable positions WITH THE ENFACISE OF BEING ULTRA POSITIVE ... and come away from the ultra-negative tactics - of seeing our beloved teams players " running around like headless chickens " totally de-motivated - and haven't got a clue what their roles are in Saints set up, and produce what is being asked of them.
0

SaintBrock added 14:13 - Nov 9
"Yoshida was totally at fault for the goal a complete lapse in concentration, this is not me being anti Yoshida, having now watched it several times"

It won't be long before you get a knock at your front door from a 6'6" Japanese central defender seeking clarification of your comments.
0

TimSaint added 14:43 - Nov 9
SaintBrock - Yoshi is 6'2'' If he was 6'6'', he may have won that header !! :o)

Thing is though, was his header error any worse than FF's effort at saving the only on target shot he had to face all afternoon, or perhaps Redmond's shot that was well saved, but perhaps put too close to the keeper, or maybe Gabbi's great headed chance that he put well wide ?

Things aren't going too well for us all over the pitch at the moment, but this will change with hard work. The thing is, there doesn't appear to be much effort on show at the moment and rumour has it that since the pressing tactic has been dropped, so has the level of fitness.
1


You need to login in order to post your comments

Blogs 31 bloggers

Knees-up Mother Brown #22 by wessex_exile
Knees-up Mother Brown #18 by wessex_exile

Southampton Polls

About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024