| The Road to World War 08:45 - Mar 16 with 9963 views | Lord_Bony |
Starts at midnight tonight.
Take my word for it,just watch what happens in The Ukraine this week.
It s about to get nasty. |  |
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| The Road to World War on 13:10 - Mar 18 with 855 views | Catullus |
| The Road to World War on 12:50 - Mar 18 by Shaky |
The relevance is that Maciej's dukedom was confiscated by the Soviets after WWII. As such the very notion of Ukraine is a thoroughly modern construct.
A bit like Yugoslavia, and look what happened there. |
It's interesting, but it's not relevant and it won't change anything.
In the vast scheme of things, every country is a modern construct. democracy, communism, fascism, they are all modern constructs.
Have you given up trying to prove your point then? |  |
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| The Road to World War on 13:13 - Mar 18 with 846 views | Shaky |
My point was that you were talking rubbish.
QED. |  |
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| The Road to World War on 13:16 - Mar 18 with 843 views | Catullus |
| The Road to World War on 13:13 - Mar 18 by Shaky |
My point was that you were talking rubbish.
QED. |
Any point in particular, or all of it?
And that being the case, can you post a relevant reason why it's rubbish. And don't try the near 70 year old dukedom argument. | |
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| The Road to World War on 13:23 - Mar 18 with 837 views | Shaky |
Can I disprove that "The EU and the U.S working to undermine Russia by destabilising former Soviet satellite states."?
No.
Can you disprove that the Queen is a lizard from the planet X who feasts on the blood of humans after every garden party at Buck Palace? | |
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| The Road to World War on 14:13 - Mar 18 with 810 views | Lord_Bony |
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| The Road to World War on 16:00 - Mar 18 with 783 views | Lohengrin |
Is there anybody else seeing the direct historical parallel between the Crimean Referendum of 2014 and the Sudetenland Plebiscite of 1938? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The Road to World War on 16:13 - Mar 18 with 771 views | Lord_Bony |
| The Road to World War on 16:00 - Mar 18 by Lohengrin |
Is there anybody else seeing the direct historical parallel between the Crimean Referendum of 2014 and the Sudetenland Plebiscite of 1938? |
Yes granted there are a lot of similarities.
What you reckon we should do mate? | |
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| The Road to World War on 16:14 - Mar 18 with 768 views | Shaky |
Ukraine PM: Crimea conflict enters military stage
18 Mar 2014 - 16:13
KIEV, March 18 (Reuters) — Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk said on Tuesday that the conflict in its Crimea peninsula, now under Russian control, had entered a military phase and accused Russia of commiting a "war crime" by firing on Ukrainian servicemen.
"The conflict is moving from a political one to a military one because of Russian soldiers," he told a meeting at Ukraine's defence ministry. "Today, Russian soldiers began shooting at Ukrainian servicemen and this is a war crime without any expiry under a statute of limitations." Yatseniuk said he had ordered Ukraine's defence minister to call a meeting with his counterparts from Britain, France, and Russia — signatories to a 1994 treaty guaranteeing Ukraine's borders to "prevent an escalation of the conflict".
Earlier, a military spokesman said a Ukrainian officer was wounded in a shooting at a military facility on the outskirts of the Crimean capital Simferopol, but it was unclear who was behind the incident.
(Reporting by Natallya Zinets, Writing by Ron Popeski)
Keywords: UKRAINE CRISIS/PREMIER | |
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| The Road to World War on 16:15 - Mar 18 with 763 views | Shaky |
| The Road to World War on 16:00 - Mar 18 by Lohengrin |
Is there anybody else seeing the direct historical parallel between the Crimean Referendum of 2014 and the Sudetenland Plebiscite of 1938? |
In spite of my foregoing post, I believe the parallel is that nobody is going to go to war over Crimea either. | |
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| The Road to World War on 16:15 - Mar 18 with 762 views | Lord_Bony |
It's a powder keg waiting to blow alright. | |
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| The Road to World War on 16:22 - Mar 18 with 744 views | Shaky |
| The Road to World War on 16:15 - Mar 18 by Lord_Bony |
It's a powder keg waiting to blow alright. |
Vive la diffrence:
********************
UPDATE 3-Russian deputy PM doubts France's reliability as arms supplier
18 Mar 2014 - 16:19
France may suspend naval contracts in next sanction phase
Suspending Mistral contract a tough political decision
France backtracks on comments Russia suspended from G8
(Adds French government source on Mistral, spokesman on G8)
By Vladimir Soldatkin and John Irish
MOSCOW/PARIS, March 18 (Reuters) — Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin criticised France on Tuesday for saying it may cancel a 1.2 billion euro ($1.67 billion) helicopter-carrier contract with Moscow over the Ukraine crisis, and France seemed to back down on the issue.
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius raised the possibility on Monday of scrapping the deal depending on further sanctions against Moscow over its seizure of Ukraine's Crimea region, but later said he was only considering delaying it.
"France is starting to undermine confidence in it as a reliable provider in the very sensitive sector of military and technical cooperation," Rogozin, who oversees Russia's defence industry, said on Twitter.
French officials have shied away from discussing whether the 2011 contract for two Mistral helicopter carriers with an option for two more with Russia could be suspended, a potentially politically awkward sacrifice, to show French resolve.
Fabius had said that if Putin pressed ahead, France would "consider cancelling the sales", but on Tuesday he said, "What's being considered is the suspension of these contracts." "On the one hand we understand that we can't deliver military hardware given (Russia's) behaviour, but on the other hand there is the reality of jobs and the economy," he told Europe 1 radio.
The long-discussed purchase was Moscow's first major foreign arms purchase in the two decades since the fall of the Soviet Union and the carriers can hold up to 16 helicopters, such as Russia's Ka-50/52s.
Russia's Mistral purchase would give it access to advanced technology, alarming some of France's NATO allies, especially in the aftermath of Russia's 2008 war with Georgia.
Former President Nicolas Sarkozy had hailed the signing of the Mistral contract as evidence the Cold War was over. The contract has created about 1,000 jobs in France.
The first carrier, the Vladivostok, is due to be delivered by the last quarter of 2014. The second one, named Sebastopol after Crimea's crucial seaport and illustrating its importance to Moscow, is supposed to be delivered by 2016.
Fabius insisted that no decision had been made and that it would only happen in a third round of European Union sanctions.
"It can only be envisaged in the framework of general sanctions. It cannot just simply be France," he said.
French officials privately looked to play down the possible suspension saying the idea was to avoid this at all costs.
"We are in the second phase (of sanctions) and we want to stay in that phase because our objective is a political solution," one government source said.
France's foreign ministry also backed down on comments made earlier by Fabius saying Russia had been suspended from the G8.
"We are suspending our work and our participation in the G8 as has already been announced," spokesman Romain Nadal told reporters, referring to the scheduled G8 Summit in Sochi in June. "That's what the minister meant." [ID:nL1N0M000R] ($1 = 0.7180 euros)
(Editing by Louise Ireland) ((timothy.heritage@thomsonreuters.com)(+74957751242)(Reuters Messaging: timothy.heritage.thomsonreuters.com@reuters.net)
Keywords: UKRAINE CRISIS/RUSSIA FRANCE | |
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| The Road to World War on 16:25 - Mar 18 with 739 views | Lohengrin |
| The Road to World War on 16:15 - Mar 18 by Shaky |
In spite of my foregoing post, I believe the parallel is that nobody is going to go to war over Crimea either. |
I think war of sorts is absolutely inevitable there. A Balkanesque conflict that will see the Ukranians and ethnic Russians (not that you'd be able to tell either apart, mind you) divide along what will become the new border. Eastern Ukraine will be ceded to Russia because that's what the population will demand, likewise Crimea.
I think this chain of events has already been set in motion and nothing on earth can now prevent it happening.
Just to reiterate what I have said on previous threads I can see the validity of both sides arguments there. I can view it dispassionately as an outsider looking in who is entirely confident it is none of his business to interfere. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The Road to World War on 16:29 - Mar 18 with 731 views | Shaky |
| The Road to World War on 16:25 - Mar 18 by Lohengrin |
I think war of sorts is absolutely inevitable there. A Balkanesque conflict that will see the Ukranians and ethnic Russians (not that you'd be able to tell either apart, mind you) divide along what will become the new border. Eastern Ukraine will be ceded to Russia because that's what the population will demand, likewise Crimea.
I think this chain of events has already been set in motion and nothing on earth can now prevent it happening.
Just to reiterate what I have said on previous threads I can see the validity of both sides arguments there. I can view it dispassionately as an outsider looking in who is entirely confident it is none of his business to interfere. |
I think it is highly likely there is going to be a separation of the Ukraine, not least because it makes ethnic/traditional sense.
I just don't believe there is a willingness to go to war about it, from any side. | |
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| The Road to World War on 17:03 - Mar 18 with 709 views | Lord_Bony |
The problem we have is that of an escalation or flashpoint.
Remember there is a huge build up of Russian forces to the east carrying out exercises as there is Nato forces in Poland doing the same. Then of course you have the Ukrainian army on full alert including an estimated one million reservists called up on standby ready to go at a moments notice.
On top of this we still have lunatics in the White House ,Nato and the UN calling for military action against the Russians...
It would nt take a lot for that lot to get going as history has proven.... | |
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| The Road to World War on 17:56 - Mar 18 with 669 views | max936 |
| The Road to World War on 17:03 - Mar 18 by Lord_Bony |
The problem we have is that of an escalation or flashpoint.
Remember there is a huge build up of Russian forces to the east carrying out exercises as there is Nato forces in Poland doing the same. Then of course you have the Ukrainian army on full alert including an estimated one million reservists called up on standby ready to go at a moments notice.
On top of this we still have lunatics in the White House ,Nato and the UN calling for military action against the Russians...
It would nt take a lot for that lot to get going as history has proven.... |
LB, the question for me, is, should I go ahead and buy a new Mountain Bike or should I keep to cash to help with building a nuke proof shelter. 
Are you a Military man? cause you seem to be gagging for us to be at War, you're a bigger War monger'er than George Bush ever was mun.  |  |
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| The Road to World War on 19:30 - Mar 18 with 622 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Road to World War on 05:19 - Mar 18 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Democracy ruled in Crimea and America didn't like it .
Oh the irony .
Russia rule the world and there's f&@k all anybody can do about it.
Thank god it's not America . |
It's hugely naive to think that the referendum was in any way democratic". There were Russian troops on the ground, the ballot boxes were transparent, the questions on the ballot paper allowed no one to vote for the status quo to remain and most non-Russian ethnicity Crimeans (admittedly a minority) boycotted it.
Democracy my arse. |  |
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| The Road to World War on 19:36 - Mar 18 with 609 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| The Road to World War on 19:30 - Mar 18 by exiledclaseboy |
It's hugely naive to think that the referendum was in any way democratic". There were Russian troops on the ground, the ballot boxes were transparent, the questions on the ballot paper allowed no one to vote for the status quo to remain and most non-Russian ethnicity Crimeans (admittedly a minority) boycotted it.
Democracy my arse. |
Did you vote ? |  |
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| The Road to World War on 19:37 - Mar 18 with 602 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Road to World War on 19:36 - Mar 18 by oh_tommy_tommy |
Did you vote ? |
Ok, I'll play along. No. I wasn't eligible. | |
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| The Road to World War on 19:42 - Mar 18 with 591 views | Catullus |
| The Road to World War on 19:30 - Mar 18 by exiledclaseboy |
It's hugely naive to think that the referendum was in any way democratic". There were Russian troops on the ground, the ballot boxes were transparent, the questions on the ballot paper allowed no one to vote for the status quo to remain and most non-Russian ethnicity Crimeans (admittedly a minority) boycotted it.
Democracy my arse. |
Yes ECB, and as someone said earlier the EU missed a trick by not offering a full vote with independent monitoring. Though who the Russians would accept as neutral is is debatable.
One thing about the ballot though, western tv crews were there. And when they said the non Russians were boycotting it my first thought was it's a hands down victory for Putin.
Also, if only the pro Russians voted, there was no need to use bullyboy tactics. The only people turning up were agreeing with Putin anyway.
And no one has claimed the pro western/Ukrainian voters were coerced or forced to stay away.
Whatever you call it, it's more democratic than our EU membership. We can't get a vote of any sort on that. And I fully expect Cameron to dishonour his promise on that by making some BS statement about renegotiated terms that we can all see right through.
But we have our own problems, apparently the Queen is a lizard who feasts on human flesh, how did I miss that? | |
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| The Road to World War on 19:47 - Mar 18 with 582 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Road to World War on 19:42 - Mar 18 by Catullus |
Yes ECB, and as someone said earlier the EU missed a trick by not offering a full vote with independent monitoring. Though who the Russians would accept as neutral is is debatable.
One thing about the ballot though, western tv crews were there. And when they said the non Russians were boycotting it my first thought was it's a hands down victory for Putin.
Also, if only the pro Russians voted, there was no need to use bullyboy tactics. The only people turning up were agreeing with Putin anyway.
And no one has claimed the pro western/Ukrainian voters were coerced or forced to stay away.
Whatever you call it, it's more democratic than our EU membership. We can't get a vote of any sort on that. And I fully expect Cameron to dishonour his promise on that by making some BS statement about renegotiated terms that we can all see right through.
But we have our own problems, apparently the Queen is a lizard who feasts on human flesh, how did I miss that? |
I've never pretended that the EU is democratic, although elections to the European Parliament are far more democratic than elections to the Westminster equivalent. I'm just pointing out what I heard and read from several commentators in various news sources since Sunday to counter the "Democracy rules" in Russia nonsense. I've never claimed half the things you've managed to attribute to me there. And why you felt the need to make a comparison with the EU is beyond me. | |
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| The Road to World War on 19:52 - Mar 18 with 571 views | Catullus |
| The Road to World War on 19:47 - Mar 18 by exiledclaseboy |
I've never pretended that the EU is democratic, although elections to the European Parliament are far more democratic than elections to the Westminster equivalent. I'm just pointing out what I heard and read from several commentators in various news sources since Sunday to counter the "Democracy rules" in Russia nonsense. I've never claimed half the things you've managed to attribute to me there. And why you felt the need to make a comparison with the EU is beyond me. |
I didn't actually attribute anything to you, did I?
And the Eu comparison was made because they keep on saying the Crimean ballot is illegal and undemocratic when they are hardly a beacon of democratic virtue themselves. | |
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| The Road to World War on 19:55 - Mar 18 with 563 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Road to World War on 19:52 - Mar 18 by Catullus |
I didn't actually attribute anything to you, did I?
And the Eu comparison was made because they keep on saying the Crimean ballot is illegal and undemocratic when they are hardly a beacon of democratic virtue themselves. |
Every EU country has ostensibly democratic elections where the electorate could, if they so wished, vote for parties that are pledged to take that country out of the EU. Is that not true? | |
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| The Road to World War on 20:00 - Mar 18 with 556 views | Catullus |
| The Road to World War on 19:55 - Mar 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Every EU country has ostensibly democratic elections where the electorate could, if they so wished, vote for parties that are pledged to take that country out of the EU. Is that not true? |
If there is a party that has that on it's manifesto, yes. Also assuming a party stands by it's manifesto, which is never guaranteed.
But the only parties in the UK with a chance of getting into power are all pro EU.
UKIP only have the hope of making enough seats to be viable for a Tory led coalition. And it's doubtful if the Tories will let them in anyway.
Didn't NuLabour give a referenda promise and then say the rules to trigger it hadn't been met?
PS, I didn't actually attribute anything to you, did I? | |
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| The Road to World War on 20:06 - Mar 18 with 547 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Road to World War on 20:00 - Mar 18 by Catullus |
If there is a party that has that on it's manifesto, yes. Also assuming a party stands by it's manifesto, which is never guaranteed.
But the only parties in the UK with a chance of getting into power are all pro EU.
UKIP only have the hope of making enough seats to be viable for a Tory led coalition. And it's doubtful if the Tories will let them in anyway.
Didn't NuLabour give a referenda promise and then say the rules to trigger it hadn't been met?
PS, I didn't actually attribute anything to you, did I? |
If enough people felt strongly enough about the EU to vote for UKIP they'd win enough seats to form a government and fulfil their pledge to withdraw the UK from the EU. If anti-EU sentiment that's regularly shown in polls was translated into votes then UKIP would win those seats, as the only party pledged to withdraw. But enough people won't vote for them, thankfully, because people are generally dumb.
Yes, I believe Labour did promise a referendum and then backed out. The Tories also promised a "referendum lock" and then framed the legislation in such a way as to make in meaningless. Politicians of all parties are mealy mouthed b*stards. In the unlikely event that the Tories win an outright majority next May, let's see how their firm pledge to hold an in/out referendum in 2017 pans out. I'm willing to bet it won't happen. | |
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| The Road to World War on 20:14 - Mar 18 with 539 views | Catullus |
I'm not sure if UKIP can currently fund enough people to stand?
And I agree entirely about politicians. | |
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