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Murder or manslaughter? 18:38 - Jul 29 with 1814 viewsDarran

How is that decided then?
A baby clearly beaten around the bonce and it's not murder?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/alfie-sullocks-killer-michael-pearc

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Murder or manslaughter? on 10:47 - Jul 30 with 524 viewsLe_Swans

9 years, about 50 years short to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28554523
[Post edited 30 Jul 2014 10:47]
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Murder or manslaughter? on 12:39 - Jul 30 with 503 viewsHighjack

Partial Defences to Murder
Partial defences, are different to complete defences, such as self-defence, as they bear all the ingredients of murder but if successfully argued, reduce the offence to an act of" voluntary manslaughter" not murder.

There are three partial defences to murder: diminished responsibility, loss of control and killing in pursuance of a suicide pact.

In addition there is a so called 'concealed' partial defence, created by legislation in the act of infanticide, see below in this guidance.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/#murder

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 12:43 - Jul 30 with 499 viewsHighjack

The case of R v Gore [2007] EWCA Crim 2789 has established that there is no requirement that all the ingredients of murder have to be proved before a defendant could be convicted of infanticide. The case has confirmed that the intention of parliament was to create a new offence of infanticide which covered situations much wider than offences that would otherwise be murder. Consequently, the mens rea for infanticide does not require any intention to kill or cause serious bodily harm. Therefore cases of manslaughter (see above) would fall within the elements of the offence.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 13:45 - Jul 30 with 481 viewsBrynmill_Jack

Murder or manslaughter? on 12:43 - Jul 30 by Highjack

The case of R v Gore [2007] EWCA Crim 2789 has established that there is no requirement that all the ingredients of murder have to be proved before a defendant could be convicted of infanticide. The case has confirmed that the intention of parliament was to create a new offence of infanticide which covered situations much wider than offences that would otherwise be murder. Consequently, the mens rea for infanticide does not require any intention to kill or cause serious bodily harm. Therefore cases of manslaughter (see above) would fall within the elements of the offence.


You should work for the CPS

Each time I go to Bedd - au........................

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Murder or manslaughter? on 13:47 - Jul 30 with 479 viewsHighjack

Murder or manslaughter? on 13:45 - Jul 30 by Brynmill_Jack

You should work for the CPS


Yes, I wrote that out and then checked it for accuracy and by sheer coincidence it was all written word for word on their website.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 13:55 - Jul 30 with 473 viewsBrynmill_Jack

Murder or manslaughter? on 13:47 - Jul 30 by Highjack

Yes, I wrote that out and then checked it for accuracy and by sheer coincidence it was all written word for word on their website.


Wow. I wonder why it didn't occur for them to use that tactic in prosecuting this case?
P.S. Is my thickness annoying you?

Each time I go to Bedd - au........................

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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:03 - Jul 30 with 468 viewsperchrockjack

He s probably too smart and/or paid a lot more.

In simple mans terms, if you tawat a baby that hard that many times with a blunt object it could be said you give a shite whether he lives or not, therefore..murder

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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:23 - Jul 30 with 456 viewsHighjack

Murder or manslaughter? on 14:03 - Jul 30 by perchrockjack

He s probably too smart and/or paid a lot more.

In simple mans terms, if you tawat a baby that hard that many times with a blunt object it could be said you give a shite whether he lives or not, therefore..murder


The law is a lot more complicated than that unfortunately.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:33 - Jul 30 with 452 viewsperchrockjack

Laws are made deliberately complicated so that the Legal Profession can sustain itself.
If it were simple then solicitors and barristers would have less work.
Simple but brilliant.

I remember vividly studying some arcane stuff for my Inspectors exam many years ago and wondered when I could use the knowledge attained with regard to badgers and captive foxes. Funnily enough, it did come in handy.

Always made me laugh or cry to hear them discuss what exactly was "reasonable"-which to me is purely subjective.

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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:37 - Jul 30 with 448 viewsHighjack

They are made complicated to ensure there are no loopholes and everyone gets a fair trial, but every now and again there are precedents set by unique cases that open loopholes and these precedents make the law even more complicated.

I'd be far more comfortable in a system where the law is complicated and long winded rather than open and shut simplistic. This way the law protects the not guilty as well as the guilty.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:40 - Jul 30 with 444 viewsCatullus

Murder or manslaughter? on 14:33 - Jul 30 by perchrockjack

Laws are made deliberately complicated so that the Legal Profession can sustain itself.
If it were simple then solicitors and barristers would have less work.
Simple but brilliant.

I remember vividly studying some arcane stuff for my Inspectors exam many years ago and wondered when I could use the knowledge attained with regard to badgers and captive foxes. Funnily enough, it did come in handy.

Always made me laugh or cry to hear them discuss what exactly was "reasonable"-which to me is purely subjective.


Yeah, same as politics. many a politician doesn't undertsand legislation he or she allegedly drew up!!
It's long past time the laws were simplified.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:42 - Jul 30 with 439 viewsperchrockjack

Well we ll agree to disagree on that.
I cant see how days of arguing over single words will help anyone.

Laws are passed by politicians having been called to the Bar themselves.

Loopholes are there by matters being made complicated but you present a good argument. Frankly, you seem to make a good advocate for someone in shuite.

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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:52 - Jul 30 with 432 viewsHighjack

Murder or manslaughter? on 14:40 - Jul 30 by Catullus

Yeah, same as politics. many a politician doesn't undertsand legislation he or she allegedly drew up!!
It's long past time the laws were simplified.


Disagree, If someone has been accused of a crime and is to defend themselves in front of a jury you want it to be as rigorous as possible to ensure the correct result. It shouldn't matter how long a trial takes if it reaches the right conclusion. Particularly in the modern age with forensics being as important as they are.

I just feel that a more simplistic process would result in more innocent people getting done, under the current process the prosecution have to prove a large number of things to get a conviction, but if they can then there's a very good chance the defendant did it.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 14:55 - Jul 30 with 432 viewsCatullus

Murder or manslaughter? on 14:37 - Jul 30 by Highjack

They are made complicated to ensure there are no loopholes and everyone gets a fair trial, but every now and again there are precedents set by unique cases that open loopholes and these precedents make the law even more complicated.

I'd be far more comfortable in a system where the law is complicated and long winded rather than open and shut simplistic. This way the law protects the not guilty as well as the guilty.


No, they are complicated so that us ordinary souls can't understand them. In my world, simple is better.
The more complicated something is, the more chance for something to go wrong. And given all the scumbags who get off because they got a good lawyer, and innocent people who have been banged up, I rest my case.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Murder or manslaughter? on 15:21 - Jul 30 with 418 viewsDavillin

Murder or manslaughter? on 08:49 - Jul 30 by Brynmill_Jack

A child could try to run away or shout for help. As this involved a baby who could do neither. Perhaps there's a case for a change in the law that any violent acts committed against babies which lead to their deaths should be a full on murder charge. Because even if the perpetrator doesn't mean to kill the infant the mere fact that beating a defenceless baby isn't going to exactly enrich their lives?

Not having a go at you Dav just think that the law isn't covering all bases and justice hasn't been done today.


I understand, thanks.

I agree with you about making the death of an infant by violent act a murder charge. First degree murder might be a bit of a stretch, but there are lesser murder charges in a variety of forms, so there's no reason a new sub-charge can't work for this, too. And I don't mean manslaughter, but murder.

[I don't doubt that that is the law in some form in at least a few states over here, but I haven't researched it.]

I don't care. I'm old. I don't have to.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 15:26 - Jul 30 with 413 viewsHighjack

I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that Manslaughter can potentially carry a life sentence dependent on the judge, so although officially it's a lesser charge than murder it can be judged just as serious in law in this country.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 23:34 - Jul 30 with 383 viewscybil22

Murder or manslaughter? on 15:26 - Jul 30 by Highjack

I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that Manslaughter can potentially carry a life sentence dependent on the judge, so although officially it's a lesser charge than murder it can be judged just as serious in law in this country.


I read on the BBC earlier that his father is a magistrate, explains it all really!
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Murder or manslaughter? on 00:13 - Jul 31 with 371 viewsJackoBoostardo

Murder or manslaughter? on 15:26 - Jul 30 by Highjack

I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that Manslaughter can potentially carry a life sentence dependent on the judge, so although officially it's a lesser charge than murder it can be judged just as serious in law in this country.


Even if that was the case - a life sentence in the UK is normally considered to be 25 years. The sentence is then cut by half - so we're looking at 12.5 years. Still not enough!!!

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Murder or manslaughter? on 00:35 - Jul 31 with 372 viewscybil22

Murder or manslaughter? on 00:13 - Jul 31 by JackoBoostardo

Even if that was the case - a life sentence in the UK is normally considered to be 25 years. The sentence is then cut by half - so we're looking at 12.5 years. Still not enough!!!


If what i read was true about his father, its who you know? totally wrong, that poor child
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Murder or manslaughter? on 00:39 - Jul 31 with 368 viewsHighjack

Murder or manslaughter? on 00:13 - Jul 31 by JackoBoostardo

Even if that was the case - a life sentence in the UK is normally considered to be 25 years. The sentence is then cut by half - so we're looking at 12.5 years. Still not enough!!!


Why is it cut by half?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Murder or manslaughter? on 09:55 - Jul 31 with 342 viewsperchrockjack

What should and is discussed by a jury are the facts. Any questions as regards the legal side are dealt with in camera.

The facts are what decides the case.

The arcane aspects of Statute and Common Law are what barristers make their money on and its considerable. The LAW is quite deliberately made complex to avoid it being the simple matter it should be.

Theft Act 1968 is a great way of spending some free time but take 6 months to fully take it in

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Murder or manslaughter? on 11:06 - Jul 31 with 330 viewsUxbridge

Murder or manslaughter? on 10:47 - Jul 30 by Le_Swans

9 years, about 50 years short to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28554523
[Post edited 30 Jul 2014 10:47]


Out in 4.5 years. Bloody hell.

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Murder or manslaughter? on 11:13 - Jul 31 with 323 viewsperchrockjack

Indeed and minus the time already spent in custody on remand so take another 6 months off and you have 3 and half.ot that much really and he ll be free again to inseminate another feckless slag .Its a real issue we have.

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Murder or manslaughter? on 12:15 - Jul 31 with 311 viewsorion3016

Murder or manslaughter? on 11:06 - Jul 31 by Uxbridge

Out in 4.5 years. Bloody hell.


And the good ol British taxpayer will have to fund his new life and identity as they'll protect him and move him elsewhere away from s wales

Be over there now after

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Murder or manslaughter? on 20:00 - Jul 31 with 276 viewsexiledclaseboy

Murder or manslaughter? on 12:15 - Jul 31 by orion3016

And the good ol British taxpayer will have to fund his new life and identity as they'll protect him and move him elsewhere away from s wales


No they won't. That's only ever happened a handful of times.

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