| What's "wrong" with Christianity? 20:17 - Aug 3 with 29886 views | Davillin |
What's "wrong" with Christianity?
N.B. In my opinion, it's not what's "wrong" with Christianity, but rather what's wrong with certain dismissive analyses of Christianity.
Everything that's "wrong" with Christianity is not about Christ and his teaching, but is about matters tangential to his teaching.
First and foremost, the Old Testament. Eliminate all of it and all of the hate-filled attacks on the thousands of sometimes imaginary and sometimes at least partly imaginary, and this would be a quieter place, and a quieter message board.
Second, eliminate all of the mythical elements like angels singing on high, and three wise men, and immaculate conception, and virgin birth, etc, etc, etc.
Third, eliminate all of the happy horsesh!t that goes on within the formalized churches -- especially the Catholic Church -- everything from fanciful non-Biblical embellishments and sometimes exceedingly silly rules and dogma, to long-past historical peccadilloes and worse, long-past political, economic, and military outrages.
Fourth, eliminate all of the excesses in wealth, ostentatious wealth, and pseudo regal trappings.
Fifth, do not be put off by Christ's speaking of Heaven and Hell, and the Father, but remember that these are images fully understood by his unsophisticated audience as images of one kind or another, and are not granite-hard reality.
Not one of the things I describe above has anything significant to do with either Christ or his teachings. When you ignore or eliminate all of those things, you will have the freedom to get to the heart of his teaching.
Although you can be richly rewarded by searching through the New Testament, reading all of the red typeface (which is a standard indication of the words of Christ), you really need go no further than the Sermon on the Mount, where, in essence, he gives an explication of The Ten Commandments, which alone give anyone who wants it a guide to a moral life.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-5_7/
The "pixies and fairies" so beloved of those who wish to denigrate either the Bible, religion itself, or just Christianity, were put in there as a means of explaining astoundingly complex concepts to people who were completely ill-equipped to understand them without these "teaching aids."
Anyone who is, or pretends to be, intelligent and well-read, should know to move immediately beyond these images and get to the heart of the teaching.
I not only admit, but trumpet aloud, the fact that it is far too easy to be dismissive based on tangentials, and difficult to get past them to the meaning, and moreover sometimes difficult beyond some persons' intellectual capacity.
In my opinion, it's better simply to not get involved in these discussions than to try to fight against the closed mind, and especially the mind that is closed because of non-essential and inconsequential side issues.
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| What's on 16:39 - Aug 9 with 1137 views | JackoBoostardo |
| What's on 16:35 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
Well that's subjective.You can only accept fact that you yourself know to be a fact. If someone else is telling you that it is a fact then that requires faith to accept that. My point is that, in differing degrees, everyone has take another human beings word for it. |
no, no, no..
It isn't faith to accept it. It's realisation (if you want to understand the subject matter) that science IS providing answers.
Science has allowed us to produce and harness electricity, radio waves, TV, Satellites, space travel, concrete, computers, mobile phones.... the list goes on.
Religion has allowed us to produce and harness...........???
It isn't faith - it's trust. And I think the fact that you're typing on the by-product of science shows you at least a small insight in to there being people who DO know what they're doing!
Think of a football team practicing set play tactics. Do you tell the team to just rely on faith and forget about tactics, or would you continue to practice, fail, practice and fail until you find the right formula that works? [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 16:44]
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| What's on 16:52 - Aug 9 with 1145 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 16:35 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
Well that's subjective.You can only accept fact that you yourself know to be a fact. If someone else is telling you that it is a fact then that requires faith to accept that. My point is that, in differing degrees, everyone has take another human beings word for it. |
No a fact is a fact whether you know it is a fact or not. Facts do not depend on an individual's knowledge and facts continue to be facts whether you believe in a fact or not. |  |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 16:54 - Aug 9 with 1113 views | JackoBoostardo |
| What's on 16:52 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
No a fact is a fact whether you know it is a fact or not. Facts do not depend on an individual's knowledge and facts continue to be facts whether you believe in a fact or not. |
Absolutely!
Paint your room yellow, and you are told it's blue and you may believe this - but it doesn't change the fact the colour IS yellow!
This is the story of religion. | |
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| What's on 17:18 - Aug 9 with 1123 views | exiledclaseboy |
| What's on 16:54 - Aug 9 by JackoBoostardo |
Absolutely!
Paint your room yellow, and you are told it's blue and you may believe this - but it doesn't change the fact the colour IS yellow!
This is the story of religion. |
How do you know it's yellow? Because when you were small someone told you that the colour you perceive is yellow is yellow. And now you accept it unquestioningly, on faith.
Same thing. |  |
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| What's on 17:36 - Aug 9 with 1118 views | Davillin |
| What's on 17:18 - Aug 9 by exiledclaseboy |
How do you know it's yellow? Because when you were small someone told you that the colour you perceive is yellow is yellow. And now you accept it unquestioningly, on faith.
Same thing. |
This is true with one reservation..
For every colour, I see a slightly different colour in each eye. My guess is everyone does.
The only "true" definition of a colour is in a colour frequency chart. The problem is that we don't have one in our brain to help our eyes, and even the chart is subject to what we have been taught.
So ECB is right in that we accept the colour we perceive as the true colour, but it might or might not be. And it is almost certainly different from what many others perceive.
"Faith–belief or trust
"That does not question
"Or ask for proof–
"Is a slim and timeless bond."
© 2008 | |
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| What's on 17:46 - Aug 9 with 1102 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 17:18 - Aug 9 by exiledclaseboy |
How do you know it's yellow? Because when you were small someone told you that the colour you perceive is yellow is yellow. And now you accept it unquestioningly, on faith.
Same thing. |
But we can measure the wavelength of the yellow and have a definite value for yellow that isn't dependent on a subjective understanding of 'yellow'. | |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 17:47 - Aug 9 with 1074 views | JackoBoostardo |
| What's on 17:18 - Aug 9 by exiledclaseboy |
How do you know it's yellow? Because when you were small someone told you that the colour you perceive is yellow is yellow. And now you accept it unquestioningly, on faith.
Same thing. |
No. That would be through using your eyes and brain.
How do you perceive a colour? Or how do you recognise colour?
This is because all of our eyes and brains are wired the same. With the exception of colour blindness, because we are as a whole the same species then it's based on a generally accepted perception from the majority.
And no, this isn't the result of faith - it's natural fact. We have evolved from a species that had no sense of light, to being one that can detect up to 10 million different colours within the light spectrum - and we're all the same! This has been learned as a result of progress and discovery to the point where what started off a basic concept of "mass acceptance of a colour" can now be measured accurately along with the vast variations in between. [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 17:49]
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| What's on 17:51 - Aug 9 with 1103 views | exiledclaseboy |
| What's on 17:46 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
But we can measure the wavelength of the yellow and have a definite value for yellow that isn't dependent on a subjective understanding of 'yellow'. |
Can we now. And I was only being slightly facetious as well.  | |
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| What's on 18:02 - Aug 9 with 1084 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 17:51 - Aug 9 by exiledclaseboy |
Can we now. And I was only being slightly facetious as well. |
We don't have to... unless you really want to. | |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 18:28 - Aug 9 with 1075 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 16:52 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
No a fact is a fact whether you know it is a fact or not. Facts do not depend on an individual's knowledge and facts continue to be facts whether you believe in a fact or not. |
Yes but how do you know which things are facts and which things are not? [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 18:29]
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| What's on 18:30 - Aug 9 with 1072 views | exiledclaseboy |
| What's on 18:28 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
Yes but how do you know which things are facts and which things are not? [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 18:29]
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Are you suggesting that fact can be subjective and are interchangeable with opinions?
The very notion... | |
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| What's on 18:31 - Aug 9 with 1070 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 18:30 - Aug 9 by exiledclaseboy |
Are you suggesting that fact can be subjective and are interchangeable with opinions?
The very notion... |
Its not my style to make statements. I try and let other people do that. (Emphasis on try) [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 18:34]
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| What's on 18:35 - Aug 9 with 1050 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 18:28 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
Yes but how do you know which things are facts and which things are not? [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 18:29]
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"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, nobody is entitled to their own facts"
Does gravity cease to be a fact because a tribe in the Amazon has no knowledge of it? | |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 18:39 - Aug 9 with 1051 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 18:34 - Aug 9 by exiledclaseboy |
Yes, I know, that's why I asked you a question. I was trying (unsuccessfully as it turned out) to goad you into making a statement. |
Its a shame questioning someones opinion is often perceived as having the opposite opinion. | | | |
| What's on 18:43 - Aug 9 with 1032 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 18:35 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, nobody is entitled to their own facts"
Does gravity cease to be a fact because a tribe in the Amazon has no knowledge of it? |
Umm. Did I suggest that it did?
We have believed things to be true which have subsequently been proved wrong. So fact can turn out to not be a fact at all.
The atom was so named because it was thought to be indivisible. So the status of a fact, true or false, may change over time. [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 18:48]
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| What's on 19:03 - Aug 9 with 996 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 18:43 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
Umm. Did I suggest that it did?
We have believed things to be true which have subsequently been proved wrong. So fact can turn out to not be a fact at all.
The atom was so named because it was thought to be indivisible. So the status of a fact, true or false, may change over time. [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 18:48]
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"Well that's subjective.You can only accept fact that you yourself know to be a fact. If someone else is telling you that it is a fact then that requires faith to accept that. My point is that, in differing degrees, everyone has take another human beings word for it."
I'd say that implies it.
And was it ever a fact that the atom was indivisible? | |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 19:19 - Aug 9 with 987 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 19:03 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
"Well that's subjective.You can only accept fact that you yourself know to be a fact. If someone else is telling you that it is a fact then that requires faith to accept that. My point is that, in differing degrees, everyone has take another human beings word for it."
I'd say that implies it.
And was it ever a fact that the atom was indivisible? |
No but we believed it to be so. So the facts that we hold to be true today may not be facts at all. And those things that we believe to be fallacies may actually be facts. [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 19:21]
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| What's on 19:29 - Aug 9 with 976 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 19:19 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
No but we believed it to be so. So the facts that we hold to be true today may not be facts at all. And those things that we believe to be fallacies may actually be facts. [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 19:21]
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"We believed it to be so" =/= it was a fact.
We believed it to be so until further testing and experimentation proved the fact that the atom was divisible.
You see there was a belief or hypothesis, it was tested, the fact was established. | |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 19:33 - Aug 9 with 975 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 19:29 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
"We believed it to be so" =/= it was a fact.
We believed it to be so until further testing and experimentation proved the fact that the atom was divisible.
You see there was a belief or hypothesis, it was tested, the fact was established. |
So therefore facts may not be facts. Its now a semantic argument. | | | |
| What's on 19:36 - Aug 9 with 972 views | Cottsy |
| What's on 19:33 - Aug 9 by Drizzle |
So therefore facts may not be facts. Its now a semantic argument. |
How did you get to that conclusion from what I wrote? [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 19:37]
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| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| What's on 19:57 - Aug 9 with 945 views | Drizzle |
| What's on 19:36 - Aug 9 by Cottsy |
How did you get to that conclusion from what I wrote? [Post edited 9 Aug 2014 19:37]
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Excuse my frivolous use of the word therefore. | | | |
| What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 08:26 - Aug 10 with 890 views | exiledclaseboy |
I'm fairly sure that some things that used to be considered as "facts" are no longer thought to be such. | |
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| What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 09:20 - Aug 10 with 879 views | Lord_Bony |
The truth is out there... |  |
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| What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 11:09 - Aug 10 with 860 views | Cottsy |
| What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 08:26 - Aug 10 by exiledclaseboy |
I'm fairly sure that some things that used to be considered as "facts" are no longer thought to be such. |
Facts or widely held beliefs? | |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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