| JJS 10:46 - Aug 24 with 4909 views | SS2013 |
Not seen a thread about him, so apologies if I've missed it.
What was going on yesterday ? Tired ? Overworked ?
It was interesting that MOTD showed 3 nice passes from him, but I think that's the worst performance I've seen from him as of yet.
Hopefully things can only get better. |  |
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| JJS on 08:12 - Aug 25 with 894 views | SwansNZ |
| JJS on 07:42 - Aug 25 by Dr_Winston |
True, but you can be consistently decent and occasionally brilliant. |
True, but if he was, Liverpool probably would not have sold him to us.
I like Jonjo, just because he tries things that often don't come off, people say he doesn't suit our style of play - the pass the ball around the back for 50 passes style? How about, trying to create a goal style - I like players who do that.
I thought he looked quite good in the first half, but was sh1te In the second. |  |
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| JJS on 08:13 - Aug 25 with 894 views | Daggyjack |
| JJS on 19:36 - Aug 24 by DafyddHuw |
We could have. Take him off, move Amat to DM and bring Bartley/Fernandez on. Wouldn't have done worse than leave Shelvey on. The guy's a liability. Still don't understand why we bought him - £5M, same as Napoli paid for JdG. No comparison in the quality of the two players. |
£5 million for JJS is a great deal for SCFC.
The lad is only 22 and whilst sometimes his decision making is poor (Liverpool at home last season for example), at least he has the balls to look for a pass and ping a 40 yard pass.
He will continue to improve I think and it's pretty poor to criticise the guy when he has already added a lot to the squad in the year that he has been with us. |  | | |
| JJS on 08:26 - Aug 25 with 885 views | Highjack |
Sadly there's always one escape goat in our roster. |  |
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| JJS on 08:35 - Aug 25 with 862 views | Neath_Jack |
I think Dav has a problem with men with shiny bald heads. He has had a downer on Shelvey since it was announced that we were signing him and thus painted himself into the big corner that many posters on here seem to do. |  |
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| JJS on 08:55 - Aug 25 with 861 views | Dr_Winston |
| JJS on 08:12 - Aug 25 by SwansNZ |
True, but if he was, Liverpool probably would not have sold him to us.
I like Jonjo, just because he tries things that often don't come off, people say he doesn't suit our style of play - the pass the ball around the back for 50 passes style? How about, trying to create a goal style - I like players who do that.
I thought he looked quite good in the first half, but was sh1te In the second. |
No doubt.
I like Shelvey, but he's at a critical stage now as a player. He may be only 22, but age won't be an excuse forever. He needs to start harnessing the talent he undoubtedly has on a more consistent basis. He could play at whatever level he wants to if he can. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| JJS on 09:00 - Aug 25 with 852 views | The_Doorman |
The talent is there...its his mental capacity which is a worry. Indisciplined in the last two games, giving away silly free kicks and kicking the ball away. Needs a kick up the ringer off Ash. |  | | |
| JJS on 09:41 - Aug 25 with 804 views | grabsplatter |
Being realistic if you look at the transfer fees being paid for young English players £5 million for JJS is good value.
He's been a regular starter & he's got plenty of talent but he's also got a bit to learn.
He needs to be fitter & go on an anger management course - he's going to get a few red cards if he carries on as he is!
On the plus side he's a goal threat & sees passes others in our team don't - a work in progress but worth persevering with. |  | | |
| JJS on 12:41 - Aug 25 with 737 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| JJS on 23:17 - Aug 24 by Davillin |
Let me see. You insult me by calling a respectful post "garbage," and then you suggest that I apologize?
Aprés vous, garçon.
p.s. This is a football board where people post their opinions. When those opinions are not the same of yours, your insulting the poster is disrespectful and does not constitute rational discourse.
p.s.2 Sorry there are no numbers to prove my points, which are, for the most part, different from the numbers you give, and I can't be arsed to do the work to find them. It'd be a waste of my time anyway, as your mind's made up. |
Your post may have been respectful, but it was still garbage, in fact biased garbage, the figures are not mine as the Link shows and as a "Stats" man you should be respectful of them not me.
The Apology I asked for was not to me but to Jonjo Shelvey who you have maligned.
But as you say it is just your "opinion" and you obviously won't change your mind , despite being proved wrong by the data. |  | | |
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| JJS on 12:54 - Aug 25 with 727 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| JJS on 00:40 - Aug 25 by KulusBeatFactory |
from this and subsequent posts it seems u too lack the requisite intelligence to play in the system |
"Intelligence"?
You offer absolutely nothing to the discussion but one liners. | | | |
| JJS on 14:11 - Aug 25 with 704 views | C_jack |
I remain convinced that a place in the '2' is a complete detriment to his talents. At the moment it's probably Leon dependant, but I really don't think we need the '2' in the majority of home games. Get JJS further up the pitch, linking with Siggy more and we'll see the far better player, more often, IMO. |  |
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| JJS on 14:34 - Aug 25 with 664 views | Neath_Jack |
| JJS on 12:41 - Aug 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
Your post may have been respectful, but it was still garbage, in fact biased garbage, the figures are not mine as the Link shows and as a "Stats" man you should be respectful of them not me.
The Apology I asked for was not to me but to Jonjo Shelvey who you have maligned.
But as you say it is just your "opinion" and you obviously won't change your mind , despite being proved wrong by the data. |
He doesn't deal with facts very well, when they go against his point. He has a long history of it. | |
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| JJS on 14:59 - Aug 25 with 657 views | JackSomething |
| JJS on 23:17 - Aug 24 by Davillin |
Let me see. You insult me by calling a respectful post "garbage," and then you suggest that I apologize?
Aprés vous, garçon.
p.s. This is a football board where people post their opinions. When those opinions are not the same of yours, your insulting the poster is disrespectful and does not constitute rational discourse.
p.s.2 Sorry there are no numbers to prove my points, which are, for the most part, different from the numbers you give, and I can't be arsed to do the work to find them. It'd be a waste of my time anyway, as your mind's made up. |
I have to say Dav, your last sentence is a shocker.
You've refused to give Shelvey any credit since we signed him. I remember you slating his debut, a game we won 5-0! You even refused to give him any credit for the wonder goal against Aston Villa, so forgive me for thinking you're a lost cause when it comes to judging Shelvey.
For me, he's inconsistent and Saturday was one of his worst games, but he's worth persevering with. With Pablo gone, it's only really him and Gylfi in midfield who have shown the ability to play penetrating passes that create chances. He does need to become more consistent though, this is a big season for him. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| JJS on 15:05 - Aug 25 with 649 views | Davillin |
| JJS on 12:41 - Aug 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
Your post may have been respectful, but it was still garbage, in fact biased garbage, the figures are not mine as the Link shows and as a "Stats" man you should be respectful of them not me.
The Apology I asked for was not to me but to Jonjo Shelvey who you have maligned.
But as you say it is just your "opinion" and you obviously won't change your mind , despite being proved wrong by the data. |
Humph. I always thought of you as one of the respectful and reasonable posters on here. Now I'm considering re-thinking that.
On what rational basis do you say that my opinion is "biased"? For the life of me, I cannot understand what you see as bias regarding this player. Because I consider what I see in game after game more important than your stats regarding how many games he has played and his pass completion rate (which is not something to write home to mother about)? Come on!
One of the problems with this discussion [and previous ones regarding this player] is that for the most part, the bias is clearly for him in spite of the reality on the pitch.
I suppose you'll say the other posters on this thread who believe he's not up to it are also biased -- again without justification. |  |
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| JJS on 15:06 - Aug 25 with 642 views | Dr_Winston |
| JJS on 14:59 - Aug 25 by JackSomething |
I have to say Dav, your last sentence is a shocker.
You've refused to give Shelvey any credit since we signed him. I remember you slating his debut, a game we won 5-0! You even refused to give him any credit for the wonder goal against Aston Villa, so forgive me for thinking you're a lost cause when it comes to judging Shelvey.
For me, he's inconsistent and Saturday was one of his worst games, but he's worth persevering with. With Pablo gone, it's only really him and Gylfi in midfield who have shown the ability to play penetrating passes that create chances. He does need to become more consistent though, this is a big season for him. |
Problem is that the "numbers" don't really work when it comes to a player like Shelvey. Stats will only get you so far. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| JJS on 15:10 - Aug 25 with 633 views | Davillin |
| JJS on 08:26 - Aug 25 by Highjack |
Sadly there's always one escape goat in our roster. |
Absolutely no-one has made him a scapegoat. No-one.
Tried to have a rational discussion of his value and playing style, yes. But scapegoat, no.
If you don't like my definition of "scapegoat," please find a better one and post it. A "scapegoat" is someone who is unfairly given sole blame for some bad result, and not the others who do, or might, share the responsibility. | |
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| JJS on 15:16 - Aug 25 with 630 views | airedale |
Regarding Shelvey's iffy temperament, I had a chuckle to myself (I'm allowed at my age) thinking about how Brendan has offloaded Shelvey and Gnasher, and just as he's beginning to feel more relaxed about his Roster (Brendan has started using Americano now, like Offence e.g.), Ian Ayres gets on the phone to tell him he's been down the Bargain Shop and bought Batty Telly for 16 big ones. |  | | |
| JJS on 15:38 - Aug 25 with 608 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| JJS on 15:05 - Aug 25 by Davillin |
Humph. I always thought of you as one of the respectful and reasonable posters on here. Now I'm considering re-thinking that.
On what rational basis do you say that my opinion is "biased"? For the life of me, I cannot understand what you see as bias regarding this player. Because I consider what I see in game after game more important than your stats regarding how many games he has played and his pass completion rate (which is not something to write home to mother about)? Come on!
One of the problems with this discussion [and previous ones regarding this player] is that for the most part, the bias is clearly for him in spite of the reality on the pitch.
I suppose you'll say the other posters on this thread who believe he's not up to it are also biased -- again without justification. |
May quote you?
"In my opinion, he has never had one good game for the Swans, let alone a "very good game," because, although he makes one or two "critical passes," he too frequently wastes possession with very low-percentage long-range shots [which invariably relinquish possession], passes the ball where no teammate can get on the end of it, passes directly to opponents".
So 1 pass in 5 goes astray and you class that as "frequently wastes possession" or " [which invariably relinquish possession]"
1 in 5 is frequently?
Would you like to name a Player who's passing you are satisfied with, so that I can make a comparison?
Canas, or Chico perhaps?
It won't take me long as you see I already have from the data on a previous post? | | | |
| JJS on 15:41 - Aug 25 with 610 views | Davillin |
| JJS on 15:16 - Aug 25 by airedale |
Regarding Shelvey's iffy temperament, I had a chuckle to myself (I'm allowed at my age) thinking about how Brendan has offloaded Shelvey and Gnasher, and just as he's beginning to feel more relaxed about his Roster (Brendan has started using Americano now, like Offence e.g.), Ian Ayres gets on the phone to tell him he's been down the Bargain Shop and bought Batty Telly for 16 big ones. |
Respectfully, can you please tell me the real name of "Batty Telly."
I assume he also has an "iffy temperament" [thank someone for the precious gift of karma] and would like to see why.
Thanks. | |
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| JJS on 20:28 - Aug 25 with 547 views | Starsky |
| JJS on 15:41 - Aug 25 by Davillin |
Respectfully, can you please tell me the real name of "Batty Telly."
I assume he also has an "iffy temperament" [thank someone for the precious gift of karma] and would like to see why.
Thanks. |
Balloteli.
When I disagree with you, such as on this thread... In my head it sounds like a debate between Captain Kirk & Mr Spock. |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| JJS on 22:15 - Aug 25 with 517 views | Davillin |
| JJS on 20:28 - Aug 25 by Starsky |
Balloteli.
When I disagree with you, such as on this thread... In my head it sounds like a debate between Captain Kirk & Mr Spock. |
Well, if I missed "belly telly" for Balotelli, I must be playing the Kirk role.
Thanks. | |
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| JJS on 22:25 - Aug 25 with 503 views | Davillin |
| JJS on 15:38 - Aug 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
May quote you?
"In my opinion, he has never had one good game for the Swans, let alone a "very good game," because, although he makes one or two "critical passes," he too frequently wastes possession with very low-percentage long-range shots [which invariably relinquish possession], passes the ball where no teammate can get on the end of it, passes directly to opponents".
So 1 pass in 5 goes astray and you class that as "frequently wastes possession" or " [which invariably relinquish possession]"
1 in 5 is frequently?
Would you like to name a Player who's passing you are satisfied with, so that I can make a comparison?
Canas, or Chico perhaps?
It won't take me long as you see I already have from the data on a previous post? |
I do not continue debates when the other side is locked in.
I'll say only two things more.
1. One pass out of five going astray is abominably, abysmally, bad in a team built on possession.
On that stat alone, he'd never start another game for me.
You made my point.
2. You misquoted me. I said that his long shots that miss the target "invariably relinquish possession" not his every pass. Again, I print my "signature" in big black letters, with emphasis:
"I have said many times on here that I enjoy contention in discourse. I do not, however, appreciate insults, foul language as a substitute for reason, and intentional misrepresentation of what I write."
[p.s. You'd have been better off staying with "80%."] [Post edited 25 Aug 2014 22:45]
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| JJS on 22:40 - Aug 25 with 488 views | londonlisa2001 |
| JJS on 22:25 - Aug 25 by Davillin |
I do not continue debates when the other side is locked in.
I'll say only two things more.
1. One pass out of five going astray is abominably, abysmally, bad in a team built on possession.
On that stat alone, he'd never start another game for me.
You made my point.
2. You misquoted me. I said that his long shots that miss the target "invariably relinquish possession" not his every pass. Again, I print my "signature" in big black letters, with emphasis:
"I have said many times on here that I enjoy contention in discourse. I do not, however, appreciate insults, foul language as a substitute for reason, and intentional misrepresentation of what I write."
[p.s. You'd have been better off staying with "80%."] [Post edited 25 Aug 2014 22:45]
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I think Jonjo is a very interesting player.
He has undoubted talent in my mind - some lovely passes again on Saturday which suggests that his awareness of space and movement is very very good (although overall I thought he had a poor game).
In fact, this is where I believe his issue comes from - I believe that his awareness is better than most players, certainly in the current team and as good as and probably better than most players in this league. Pablo also had that awareness but it's actually pretty rare even at a top level.
BUT - at this point in time, his technique is not as good as his ability to spot that pass and therefore he doesn't always execute it well and it looks very very wasteful. But he's only 22 and I think, and obviously it's just my opinion, that his technique, and concentration to execute that technique consistently may well come in time, with training and some work with the sports psychologists perhaps. If he can develop that technique and consistency, and strengthen his mind so his head stops going down, then I think he could become a very special player indeed. Because that awareness, on the pitch, at a fast pace - that is the bit that they can't coach - that is the bit that's really rare and separates most players from the great players.
I wouldn't play him for 90 mins every game, not at the moment, but I think he could develop to become an important player for us for years and years to come. | | | |
| JJS on 22:54 - Aug 25 with 455 views | C_jack |
| JJS on 22:40 - Aug 25 by londonlisa2001 |
I think Jonjo is a very interesting player.
He has undoubted talent in my mind - some lovely passes again on Saturday which suggests that his awareness of space and movement is very very good (although overall I thought he had a poor game).
In fact, this is where I believe his issue comes from - I believe that his awareness is better than most players, certainly in the current team and as good as and probably better than most players in this league. Pablo also had that awareness but it's actually pretty rare even at a top level.
BUT - at this point in time, his technique is not as good as his ability to spot that pass and therefore he doesn't always execute it well and it looks very very wasteful. But he's only 22 and I think, and obviously it's just my opinion, that his technique, and concentration to execute that technique consistently may well come in time, with training and some work with the sports psychologists perhaps. If he can develop that technique and consistency, and strengthen his mind so his head stops going down, then I think he could become a very special player indeed. Because that awareness, on the pitch, at a fast pace - that is the bit that they can't coach - that is the bit that's really rare and separates most players from the great players.
I wouldn't play him for 90 mins every game, not at the moment, but I think he could develop to become an important player for us for years and years to come. |
His age always surprises me, even when I hear it over again. For me, it's no doubt that such an early introduction into the game results in his inconsistent nature. Skill and physique will always balance out, eventually.
I think I remember him playing against us for Charlton in the Championship? must have been 6 years ago. | |
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| JJS on 23:01 - Aug 25 with 444 views | Davillin |
| JJS on 22:40 - Aug 25 by londonlisa2001 |
I think Jonjo is a very interesting player.
He has undoubted talent in my mind - some lovely passes again on Saturday which suggests that his awareness of space and movement is very very good (although overall I thought he had a poor game).
In fact, this is where I believe his issue comes from - I believe that his awareness is better than most players, certainly in the current team and as good as and probably better than most players in this league. Pablo also had that awareness but it's actually pretty rare even at a top level.
BUT - at this point in time, his technique is not as good as his ability to spot that pass and therefore he doesn't always execute it well and it looks very very wasteful. But he's only 22 and I think, and obviously it's just my opinion, that his technique, and concentration to execute that technique consistently may well come in time, with training and some work with the sports psychologists perhaps. If he can develop that technique and consistency, and strengthen his mind so his head stops going down, then I think he could become a very special player indeed. Because that awareness, on the pitch, at a fast pace - that is the bit that they can't coach - that is the bit that's really rare and separates most players from the great players.
I wouldn't play him for 90 mins every game, not at the moment, but I think he could develop to become an important player for us for years and years to come. |
I know where you're coming from. Thanks for your usual rational and clear observations.
Let me make a reference to some of your verbs, conditional phrases, and reservations, with a comment:
"at this point in time," "may well come in time," "If he can develop that technique . . . and strengthened his mind," "he could become a very special player," "Because that awareness, on the pitch, at a fast pace -- that is the bit that they can't coach."
I agree with them all. And I agree that they should keep him from playing "for 90 minutes every game." My reaction is that I would not start him, and that in essence, he would not play for me with these characteristics [I would have used the word "weaknesses" or "deficiencies" there, but the backlash to either word would have been fierce.] | |
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| JJS on 23:11 - Aug 25 with 436 views | londonlisa2001 |
| JJS on 22:54 - Aug 25 by C_jack |
His age always surprises me, even when I hear it over again. For me, it's no doubt that such an early introduction into the game results in his inconsistent nature. Skill and physique will always balance out, eventually.
I think I remember him playing against us for Charlton in the Championship? must have been 6 years ago. |
I believe he made his debut at 16 so that would fit.
He's so big for his age - filled out big I mean - most 22 year olds even if quite tall are quite scrawny and he's not at all (in fact could do with being a little more scrawny if anything).
I like him - much more than I thought I would when he signed. He seems like a really nice guy and there's something really quite endearing about him getting so irritated with himself. It's then that his age shows through. | | | |
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