| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? 23:42 - Oct 16 with 39946 views | jackrabbit |
You'd think so from all the pompous pontification dominating the airwaves in the last few days. Pompous-Prat-in-Chief, Nick Clegg piled in with his fourpennorth today and in true Cleggy style managed to sway me right over onto the side of Evans. I had not given it much thought or had an opinion before - I wasn't that aware of Evans either as a footballer or a person - but I decided to read about the case.
From what I understand he went bed pissed wth a pissed-up 19 year old and sex took place - there was no physical violence. I wasn't there so i don't know the precise details. There was another person involved but he got off relatively mildly - Evans received a hefty jail term.
Now having served his fairly hefty sentence, he is being threatened with denial of his right to earn a living by continuing his career.
Now rape is a foul and terrible crime. However I have problem with some of these situations being described as 'rape'. Without being crass, when does 'persuasive and persistent seduction' carry over into 'rape'? I always thought it was when it was accompanied by force or violence to get your way. I am so glad I'm an old fart and was young when I was young in the 60s and 70s.
Since time immemorial women (and men) have woken up, taken one look at the head on the pillow next to them and instantly regretted the night before. Usually it has been logged under 'big mistake - not to be repeated' and then the person has just gone away and carried on with life. Je ne regrette rien. There was a song about it. Now all too often there is the cry of 'RAPE!' And the inevitable court case. As I say I'm talking generally and not specifically about the Evans case, but I am uneasy about the vilification that's taking place and I certainly see no reason why he should not return to his day job, - playing football.
Let all those who have not had a pissed-up one-night stand with a pissed-up bird, cast the first stone.
I'm now going to brace myself for the abuse! |  | | |  |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:47 - Oct 19 with 2439 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:05 - Oct 19 by swanny |
are some blokes on here on a wind up, or have they really not evolved from cromagnon man |
I'm trying to be controversial in everyway.. The fact is nobody knows the proper facts of the case.. He's done his time.. But his girlfriend has serious, serious issues.. I don't think he should play football again.. But he does at least deserve a chance to earn a living.. He has a home.. He has expensive cars.. His bank balance is already stocked up.. I wouldn't mind to be Evans now.. In all honesty.. I would take a conviction if I had a home.. A few expensive cars and a decent bank balance.. He should count himself fortunate.. And shut up. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:58 - Oct 19 with 2410 views | jackonicko |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:47 - Oct 19 by skippyjack |
I'm trying to be controversial in everyway.. The fact is nobody knows the proper facts of the case.. He's done his time.. But his girlfriend has serious, serious issues.. I don't think he should play football again.. But he does at least deserve a chance to earn a living.. He has a home.. He has expensive cars.. His bank balance is already stocked up.. I wouldn't mind to be Evans now.. In all honesty.. I would take a conviction if I had a home.. A few expensive cars and a decent bank balance.. He should count himself fortunate.. And shut up. |
You wouldn't mind being Ched Evans right now? Really? I mean, really?
i never answered your poll, but on the basis of that post alone I should go and find it and vote no. You are an extremely odd individual. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:03 - Oct 19 with 2402 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:41 - Oct 19 by raynor94 |
Shut up skippy you arse, do you deliberately try to be dull? |
Sometimes.. Especially when a person treats me like a dummy.. Talks to me like a dummy.. And speak to me like a kid.. If you had an adult conversation with me.. I'd act an adult.. If you had an on the fence conversation with me.. I'd act on the fence.. If you decide to talk to me like a kid.. I'll talk to you like a kid.. It's your choice really.. Not mine.. Mostly I get talked to like a kid.. It all depends see Raynor.. I'm not as critical of people as you are though.. | |
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The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:13 - Oct 19 with 2384 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:58 - Oct 19 by jackonicko |
You wouldn't mind being Ched Evans right now? Really? I mean, really?
i never answered your poll, but on the basis of that post alone I should go and find it and vote no. You are an extremely odd individual. |
Why not?... He's a millionaire with a home and a few nice cars.. And probably a good few quid.. I'm a bloke who can't get a job.. Gets insulted on a message board.. And earn the square root of zilch.. My only way into any meaningful employment is possibly voluntary for at least 6 months.. Even then I might not...
Odd, different.. It's all opinion.. It's all meaningless.. You've never met me.. You don't know me.. I find your comments rather rude and odd.. Can you see why I talk like a kid to some people? | |
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The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:22 - Oct 19 with 2373 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:39 - Oct 19 by Shaky |
I'll grant you this Lisa, your ability to come up with impressive sounding verbiage like "consent transparently not established" is not in dispute.
I have no idea what that means in English or in law but I have found the following outlining the statutory test for whether consent is present:
****************************
the complainant is to be taken not to have consented
(a)any person was, at the time of the relevant act or immediately before it began, using violence against the complainant or causing the complainant to fear that immediate violence would be used against him;
(b)any person was, at the time of the relevant act or immediately before it began, causing the complainant to fear that violence was being used, or that immediate violence would be used, against another person;
(c)the complainant was, and the defendant was not, unlawfully detained at the time of the relevant act;
(d)the complainant was asleep or otherwise unconscious at the time of the relevant act;
(e)because of the complainant’s physical disability, the complainant would not have been able at the time of the relevant act to communicate to the defendant whether the complainant consented;
(f)any person had administered to or caused to be taken by the complainant, without the complainant’s consent, a substance which, having regard to when it was administered or taken, was capable of causing or enabling the complainant to be stupefied or overpowered at the time of the relevant act.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/75
****************************
Now bearing in mind that there is not a shred of evidence for your original proprietary Lisa fact that the girl was unconscious, which one of these other factors transparently applies?
And kindly note there none of the tests mention anything about alleged perpetrators gaining access to a hotel room by deception or generally being a shit. That is what is known as circumstantial evidence, and is typically treated with a considerable degree of scepticism by courts generally seeking to establish facts about crimes. |
sorry Shaky. Was there a particular word you didn't understand? I could try to find a simpler one instead if you prefer?
And I think you should send that little cutting to the judge and to the Court of Appeal. Just in case that their many years of legal training and experience hasn't included what you managed to find on google.
What part of 'he was found guilty' are you finding difficult? And, rather more worryingly, why are you so concerned that he should have been found not guilty? |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:29 - Oct 19 with 2357 views | raynor94 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:03 - Oct 19 by skippyjack |
Sometimes.. Especially when a person treats me like a dummy.. Talks to me like a dummy.. And speak to me like a kid.. If you had an adult conversation with me.. I'd act an adult.. If you had an on the fence conversation with me.. I'd act on the fence.. If you decide to talk to me like a kid.. I'll talk to you like a kid.. It's your choice really.. Not mine.. Mostly I get talked to like a kid.. It all depends see Raynor.. I'm not as critical of people as you are though.. |
Ok fair enough, but are you deliberately trying to be obtuse? it's a very emotive subject and you are being your normal arse of yourself, apologies if I'm reading you wrong but I have a feeling I'm not |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:49 - Oct 19 with 2332 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:29 - Oct 19 by raynor94 |
Ok fair enough, but are you deliberately trying to be obtuse? it's a very emotive subject and you are being your normal arse of yourself, apologies if I'm reading you wrong but I have a feeling I'm not |
I've tried to be as controversial as possible with everything.. Some of it might be wrong.. Some of it might be correct.. It just makes people think more.. I've gone from giving him a rollicking to giving him a bit of sympathy.. I've gone from why he shouldn't be able to play and food banks.. From giving reasons on why he might be innocent.. But his girlfriend has real issues.. It's just a message board Raynor.. Just like twitter, Facebook, Kik, dating websites, WhatsApp, Skype, chatrooms..full of opinions.. I'm not a troll or wum.. I'm highly controversial.. That's why people probably won't employ me.. The question is.. Would you want me on your side or not.. I'm like the balotelli of posters.. Could be unplayable.. Could be lazy.. Could be controversial.. Could be a hero.. I can see you now.. If only he actually was consistenly focussed.. He'd be one of the best.. | |
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The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:56 - Oct 19 with 2320 views | LeonisGod |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:47 - Oct 19 by skippyjack |
I'm trying to be controversial in everyway.. The fact is nobody knows the proper facts of the case.. He's done his time.. But his girlfriend has serious, serious issues.. I don't think he should play football again.. But he does at least deserve a chance to earn a living.. He has a home.. He has expensive cars.. His bank balance is already stocked up.. I wouldn't mind to be Evans now.. In all honesty.. I would take a conviction if I had a home.. A few expensive cars and a decent bank balance.. He should count himself fortunate.. And shut up. |
You'd be happy being a convicted rapist as long as you had some expensive cars and a big house?  |  | | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 06:53 - Oct 20 with 2220 views | epaul |
New low for this site all the rapist apologists, never thought this site would stoop so low, sorry not site but some posters. I'll repeat, what I said about 8 pages ago, live with someone very close to you who has been raped and see the carnage it brings to the individual and those close to them
Evans is a convicted rapist end of no excuses, this thread makes me want to f*cking puke |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:08 - Oct 20 with 2175 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 06:53 - Oct 20 by epaul |
New low for this site all the rapist apologists, never thought this site would stoop so low, sorry not site but some posters. I'll repeat, what I said about 8 pages ago, live with someone very close to you who has been raped and see the carnage it brings to the individual and those close to them
Evans is a convicted rapist end of no excuses, this thread makes me want to f*cking puke |
Rapist apologist my arse, don't be such a f*cking drama queen.
Here are the available reported facts regarding whether sex was consensual:
1) The girl says she remembers nothing. Whether or not that is true she has nothing whatsoever to say on the matter.
2) In evidence both of the accused said she agreed to sex.
3) That's it.
[4] Except it turns out that one of the peeping Toms was Evans' brother; I'm sure most of us can agree if we are going to commit the crime of rape we would all like as much of our nearest family to be present as possible, right?
Some considerable time later a bunch of people got together and determined that even if she had said yes on the night she couldn't possibly have meant it because she must have been too drunk. Beyond any reasonable doubt, Paul, a standard you would have imagined would require a remarkable feat of collective clairvoyance to meet, in the absence of any f*cking first hand evidence whatsoever.
"convicted rapist end of no excuses" you say. Never heard of miscarriages of justice, convictions overturned on appeal, that sort of thing?
Of course you bloody have. Now Perch is what I would consider a moral simpleton. He inhabits the world of an eighteenth century romantic novel, where women are delicate flowers by divine decree incapable of any kind of wrongdoing, moral or otherwise.
You on the other hand have a demonstrated ability to question authority and exercise critical judgement. Except in this case. And I am sorry to say that I can see no other reason for that that your abject failure to separate your knee-jerk emotional response from your critical faculties in this case.
I expected better of you Paul. Welcome to your witchhunt. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:47 - Oct 20 with 2105 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:08 - Oct 20 by Shaky |
Rapist apologist my arse, don't be such a f*cking drama queen.
Here are the available reported facts regarding whether sex was consensual:
1) The girl says she remembers nothing. Whether or not that is true she has nothing whatsoever to say on the matter.
2) In evidence both of the accused said she agreed to sex.
3) That's it.
[4] Except it turns out that one of the peeping Toms was Evans' brother; I'm sure most of us can agree if we are going to commit the crime of rape we would all like as much of our nearest family to be present as possible, right?
Some considerable time later a bunch of people got together and determined that even if she had said yes on the night she couldn't possibly have meant it because she must have been too drunk. Beyond any reasonable doubt, Paul, a standard you would have imagined would require a remarkable feat of collective clairvoyance to meet, in the absence of any f*cking first hand evidence whatsoever.
"convicted rapist end of no excuses" you say. Never heard of miscarriages of justice, convictions overturned on appeal, that sort of thing?
Of course you bloody have. Now Perch is what I would consider a moral simpleton. He inhabits the world of an eighteenth century romantic novel, where women are delicate flowers by divine decree incapable of any kind of wrongdoing, moral or otherwise.
You on the other hand have a demonstrated ability to question authority and exercise critical judgement. Except in this case. And I am sorry to say that I can see no other reason for that that your abject failure to separate your knee-jerk emotional response from your critical faculties in this case.
I expected better of you Paul. Welcome to your witchhunt. |
actually you raise a very good point.
Why on earth have his brother and mate not been prosecuted for filming outside the hotel window, again without the woman's consent. Pretty certain that is also against the law.
I' not responding to any of the rest of it - you've managed to display fairly clearly what you are. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 18:52 - Oct 20 with 2027 views | Aquinas |
The name is all over twitter.. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:09 - Oct 20 with 2010 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 18:52 - Oct 20 by Aquinas |
The name is all over twitter.. |
I think everyone knows that. Still illegal to post it though (here and even on twitter).
The woman has had to be given a new identity and moved anyway. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:19 - Oct 20 with 2006 views | coolair |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 09:20 - Oct 17 by lifelong |
With Lisa 100% on this.
In life there are certain things you do where you simply cannot go back to the way things were before.
I would suggest that committing the horrific crime of rape would come into that category.
I wonder how those of us with daughters would feel if they went on a night out, had too much to drink and somehow got separated from their friends and ended up in this situation? |
Then I suggest that you never let you daughter travel to places like Magaluf, Benidorm, Ibiza and other places.'
After living for years in Magaluf I have seen hundreds of drunken british girls almost crawling the streets looking for somebody hot to shag.
The hunt the next free drink with kisses and suggestions that make Evans case look like a walk in the park sunday morning. Just this summer some girl performed I think it was 20 BJs in public streets in Magaluf
I bet you at least 50 girls will experience sex or a we could call it rape without remembering anything the next morning. That being on the beach, In the discos, in their hotel room or someplace else. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:01 - Oct 20 with 1979 views | coolair |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:09 - Oct 17 by skippyjack |
No.. I believe in a fair society.. Some minimum wage worker has worked 6 years flat out.. He's on the food banks.. Struggling to live... Hasn't committed any wrong doing.
Ched Evans = Rapist, Cushy Jail time.. Lovely meal.. Gets let out.. Into his lovely 'mortgage' free home.. And you're saying it's alright for him to continue earning his wage and lifestyle.. C_Jack are you one of us? Or a sheep?.. It isn't jealousy.. Its human dignity.. What a moron you are. |
So you think everything should be taken away from him and given to you poor uneducated friend in the food bank?
He didn't steal money so his mortgage free house he has earned before his crime. Also his girlfriends family have a lot of money so he will never end in your food line.
You had your chance in school to get clever. You could have educated yourself and earned a good wages today but you just sit here and cry about what others make.
And by the way What do you think Mr. Evans makes a week on his new contract My guess is not a lot. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:22 - Oct 20 with 1957 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 00:16 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001 |
I can only imagine that the accounts that the OP has read of that night are the ones published by his family.
Again I repeat that his supporters have done a phenomenal job at persuading everyone that it was all a bit of a p*ssed up lark.
What actually happened - Evans let himself in to a hotel room that was not his (after persuading the desk clerk or similar to give him a key even though he had no right to it - it wasn't his room - it was his mate's room, who the girl did have sex with and who was acquitted of any wrong doing). He then had sex with a woman that was unconscious and therefore could not possible give consent and filmed it.
That is rape. Full stop. It didn't need to be violent did it - she was unconscious and couldn't resist.
And by the way - persistent seduction (by which I assume you mean failing to accept it when the woman (sorry, 'bird') says no) is rape when the woman says no. It's not that difficult to understand surely. And by saying you're glad you were young in the 60s and 70s - I do hope that you don't mean 'when women were told to shut up and get on with it' if they tried to report rape. |
So Lisa, you have noting further to say to me, but I'm not quite done with you.
I should say here that I had never heard anything at all about this case before delving into this discussion mid thread on Saturday. I am not really interested in celeb tittle tattle and gossip, but I do take a keen amateur interest in mob or crowd psychology, which I sensed was what was manifesting here.
FWIW, my interest in this stems from the fact that the underlying psychology of the mob is invariably wrong or irrational, and if I can detect this in an investment context I can profit by taking a contrary position.
So now going back to the earlier pages of this thread gives me a unique opportunity to study the psychology our very own little Planet Swans Ched Evans lynch mob.
One recurring theme that pops up in the sheep-like expressions of moral outrage is the notion that the girl was raped while unconscious. And certainly that would be damning if true, and indeed meets the statutory test of non-consensual sex I set out a page or so ago.
But of course it isn't true, there is not one shred of evidence to say the girl was unconscious, nor that it was even suggested at any stage of proceedings.
Yet it all came from your stated claim above: "What actually happened - Evans . . .had sex with a woman that was unconscious and therefore could not possible give consent"
The giveaway here is your use of the actually, as in one of your actual facts that reliably turn out to be total fabrications.
My question to you is was this a lie you made up on the spot, or was it something you were merely regurgitating from elsewhere? | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:28 - Oct 20 with 1934 views | lifelong |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 19:19 - Oct 20 by coolair |
Then I suggest that you never let you daughter travel to places like Magaluf, Benidorm, Ibiza and other places.'
After living for years in Magaluf I have seen hundreds of drunken british girls almost crawling the streets looking for somebody hot to shag.
The hunt the next free drink with kisses and suggestions that make Evans case look like a walk in the park sunday morning. Just this summer some girl performed I think it was 20 BJs in public streets in Magaluf
I bet you at least 50 girls will experience sex or a we could call it rape without remembering anything the next morning. That being on the beach, In the discos, in their hotel room or someplace else. |
I've no doubt quite a lot of drunken girls are raped in the holiday destinations you mention. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:38 - Oct 20 with 1920 views | jackonicko |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:22 - Oct 20 by Shaky |
So Lisa, you have noting further to say to me, but I'm not quite done with you.
I should say here that I had never heard anything at all about this case before delving into this discussion mid thread on Saturday. I am not really interested in celeb tittle tattle and gossip, but I do take a keen amateur interest in mob or crowd psychology, which I sensed was what was manifesting here.
FWIW, my interest in this stems from the fact that the underlying psychology of the mob is invariably wrong or irrational, and if I can detect this in an investment context I can profit by taking a contrary position.
So now going back to the earlier pages of this thread gives me a unique opportunity to study the psychology our very own little Planet Swans Ched Evans lynch mob.
One recurring theme that pops up in the sheep-like expressions of moral outrage is the notion that the girl was raped while unconscious. And certainly that would be damning if true, and indeed meets the statutory test of non-consensual sex I set out a page or so ago.
But of course it isn't true, there is not one shred of evidence to say the girl was unconscious, nor that it was even suggested at any stage of proceedings.
Yet it all came from your stated claim above: "What actually happened - Evans . . .had sex with a woman that was unconscious and therefore could not possible give consent"
The giveaway here is your use of the actually, as in one of your actual facts that reliably turn out to be total fabrications.
My question to you is was this a lie you made up on the spot, or was it something you were merely regurgitating from elsewhere? |
shaky - there appears to be a gap in your googling. See the below from the Judge's summing up in the actual case. If you think the judge is wrong, I'm sure Ched Evans legal team will be availing themselves of your services.
"A complainant consents if, and only if, she has the freedom and capacity to make a choice, and she exercised that choice to agree to sexual intercourse.
There are two ways in which drink and/or drugs can affect an individual who is intoxicated. First, it can remove inhibitions. A person may do things when intoxicated which she would not do, or be less likely to do if sober. Secondly, she may consume so much alcohol and/or drugs that it affects her state of awareness. So you need to reach a conclusion upon what was the complainant's state of intoxication, such as you may find it to be. Was she just disinhibited, or had what she had taken removed her capacity to exercise a choice?
A woman clearly does not have the capacity to make a choice if she is completely unconscious through the effects of drink and drugs, but there are various stages of consciousness, from being wide awake to dim awareness of reality. In a state of dim and drunken awareness you may, or may not, be in a condition to make choices. So you will need to consider the evidence of the complainant's state and decide these two questions: was she in a condition in which she was capable of making any choice one way or another? If you are sure that she was not, then she did not consent. If, on the other hand, you conclude that she chose to agree to sexual intercourse, or may have done, then you must find the defendants not guilty."
I put the key sentence in bold for you. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:46 - Oct 20 with 1908 views | Shaky |
I am fully aware of that passage.
There is no doubt as to the meaning of the term unconscious.
What the judge is speculating on is various intermediate stages of consciousness leading up to that well understood state.
But clearly nowhere is it suggested that the girl was unconscious, except - as far as I am aware - originally by Lisa. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:52 - Oct 20 with 1896 views | VetchitBack |
Fair doors good showing Shaky.
I think some are getting caught up in thinking such as ;
"Rape is bad" (it very much is)
"Young footballers are often arseholes" (they very much are)
"Young footballers who spit roast girls whilst filming it are trebly arseholes"
...therefore guilty.
I don't see how rape can be proved?
I actually think this case has done more harm than good to rape victims. I don't think this should be compared to other cases of predatory brutality and evil in a semantic sense. |  |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 21:26 - Oct 20 with 1854 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:01 - Oct 20 by coolair |
So you think everything should be taken away from him and given to you poor uneducated friend in the food bank?
He didn't steal money so his mortgage free house he has earned before his crime. Also his girlfriends family have a lot of money so he will never end in your food line.
You had your chance in school to get clever. You could have educated yourself and earned a good wages today but you just sit here and cry about what others make.
And by the way What do you think Mr. Evans makes a week on his new contract My guess is not a lot. |
Go and get a proper education you dunce.. so many inaccuracies.. it's laughable.. making fun of people eating from food banks.. you are such a dignified human... I didn't say he stole anything.. and I know he earned it.. if she has money or not.. she needs help.. a professional shrink would agree with me.. so many digs about education.. I've never said I haven't got education.. I've never said I never worked.. I'm not crying about anything.. I couldn't give two f*cks.. I'm pointing out the clear unfairness of the system.. normal bloke on minimum wage no crimes = hard living.. convicted rapist = easy living.. even If he doesn't play again.. now if you can't understand this simple concept.. I'd suggest you get a better education.. as we're all in this together and equality is supposedly equal.. but I sense you have the attitude of the 'above' people factor.. a controlling type persona.. almost like an illness you can't quite shake off.. it's alright, I understand. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 22:05 - Oct 20 with 1811 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:52 - Oct 20 by VetchitBack |
Fair doors good showing Shaky.
I think some are getting caught up in thinking such as ;
"Rape is bad" (it very much is)
"Young footballers are often arseholes" (they very much are)
"Young footballers who spit roast girls whilst filming it are trebly arseholes"
...therefore guilty.
I don't see how rape can be proved?
I actually think this case has done more harm than good to rape victims. I don't think this should be compared to other cases of predatory brutality and evil in a semantic sense. |
"I don't see how rape can be proved?"
Just one minor flaw in your amazing logic - it does not need to be proved
IT ALREADY HAS BEEN - BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT
To those with access to the evidence - and given appropriate guidance by an experienced judge on the relevant points of law.
If there is no case to answer why are they manipulating the evidence on his website
for e.g. by changing the text "I have got a bird" - which sounds to me like a potential procurement exercise
To "I am with a girl"
In a section that is said to contain agreed fact - not at all divisive
Why are they both claiming to have asked the girl if it was ok if Ched joined in when according to them only one of them did. Umm now let me think
etc. etc. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 22:37 - Oct 20 with 1777 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 20:46 - Oct 20 by Shaky |
I am fully aware of that passage.
There is no doubt as to the meaning of the term unconscious.
What the judge is speculating on is various intermediate stages of consciousness leading up to that well understood state.
But clearly nowhere is it suggested that the girl was unconscious, except - as far as I am aware - originally by Lisa. |
and yet you don't understand it.
I did not say she was in a coma or even asleep, I said that she was unconscious - I realise that this is confusing you, but when you say after reading the summing up that there is no doubt as to the meaning of the term unconscious, you have patently failed to understand what the judge was saying.
He said categorically that it is not a matter of being 'completely unconscious' (he actually used the word 'completely' to make it easier to understand) but that there are stages of intoxication which when reached will remove the capacity to exercise a choice (what is commonly known if you like as a 'conscious decision)'.
the dictionary definition of unconscious btw (Collins) is as follows:
'lacking normal sensory awareness of the environment; insensible'.
The jury, after hearing all of the evidence, decided that this state had, indeed, been reached, in other words that she was unable to exercise a choice, or lacked normal sensory awareness (in other words, she was not conscious). The reason I know that is not because i 'made it up' or 'lied' but because that's what the jury found.
And as for the other silly twerp on this thread talking about Magaluf etc - there is a difference between consensual drunk sex and sex without consent (i.e. rape).
Can we please all stop pretending that she met Evans when plastered, and went back with him. That's what happened with his mate (who was found not guilty). She didn't meet Evans at all beforehand. The first encounter (by which time according to the court's verdict she was not aware, or unconscious if you prefer ), was when he let himself in to someone else's bedroom. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 07:30 - Oct 21 with 1689 views | Shaky |
At this stage I have nothing to add to my existing comments, Lisa. For anybody reading your latest contribution with a modicum of care your bullshit should speak for itself.
The question is will anybody do that? No doubt that's a tough call for the many, many gentlemen who swallowed your earlier lies hook, line, and sinker. This despite most of them being considerably higher up the evolutionary scale than say raynor, and having been repeatedly presented with overwhelming factual evidence of your tendency to shamelessly tell porkies in the past.
One definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again expecting different outcomes, and I'm certainly not holding my breath. But try to remember guys, you make your own bed so take great care before promiscuously lying with this little intellectual slapper again.
Oh and also beware of Jackanoclue, who is the brains - if we can call it that - behind defining LyingLisa's latest line of bullshit, and more generally always seems to be instantly on call to give her a pointer or helping hand to try to dig her out of the little holes she invariably creates for herself. I don't know what little games of secret spies you are playing, but the truth is couldn't give a shit. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 08:42 - Oct 21 with 1650 views | JackSomething |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 07:30 - Oct 21 by Shaky |
At this stage I have nothing to add to my existing comments, Lisa. For anybody reading your latest contribution with a modicum of care your bullshit should speak for itself.
The question is will anybody do that? No doubt that's a tough call for the many, many gentlemen who swallowed your earlier lies hook, line, and sinker. This despite most of them being considerably higher up the evolutionary scale than say raynor, and having been repeatedly presented with overwhelming factual evidence of your tendency to shamelessly tell porkies in the past.
One definition of madness is doing the same thing again and again expecting different outcomes, and I'm certainly not holding my breath. But try to remember guys, you make your own bed so take great care before promiscuously lying with this little intellectual slapper again.
Oh and also beware of Jackanoclue, who is the brains - if we can call it that - behind defining LyingLisa's latest line of bullshit, and more generally always seems to be instantly on call to give her a pointer or helping hand to try to dig her out of the little holes she invariably creates for herself. I don't know what little games of secret spies you are playing, but the truth is couldn't give a shit. |
It really winds you up how often those two have destroyed you on various issues, doesn't it? It's mildly amusing. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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