| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? 23:42 - Oct 16 with 40372 views | jackrabbit |
You'd think so from all the pompous pontification dominating the airwaves in the last few days. Pompous-Prat-in-Chief, Nick Clegg piled in with his fourpennorth today and in true Cleggy style managed to sway me right over onto the side of Evans. I had not given it much thought or had an opinion before - I wasn't that aware of Evans either as a footballer or a person - but I decided to read about the case.
From what I understand he went bed pissed wth a pissed-up 19 year old and sex took place - there was no physical violence. I wasn't there so i don't know the precise details. There was another person involved but he got off relatively mildly - Evans received a hefty jail term.
Now having served his fairly hefty sentence, he is being threatened with denial of his right to earn a living by continuing his career.
Now rape is a foul and terrible crime. However I have problem with some of these situations being described as 'rape'. Without being crass, when does 'persuasive and persistent seduction' carry over into 'rape'? I always thought it was when it was accompanied by force or violence to get your way. I am so glad I'm an old fart and was young when I was young in the 60s and 70s.
Since time immemorial women (and men) have woken up, taken one look at the head on the pillow next to them and instantly regretted the night before. Usually it has been logged under 'big mistake - not to be repeated' and then the person has just gone away and carried on with life. Je ne regrette rien. There was a song about it. Now all too often there is the cry of 'RAPE!' And the inevitable court case. As I say I'm talking generally and not specifically about the Evans case, but I am uneasy about the vilification that's taking place and I certainly see no reason why he should not return to his day job, - playing football.
Let all those who have not had a pissed-up one-night stand with a pissed-up bird, cast the first stone.
I'm now going to brace myself for the abuse! |  | | |  |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:14 - Oct 17 with 2333 views | Uxbridge |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:50 - Oct 17 by skippyjack |
I question your attitude.. I'm pointing out the reality of it all in one sweep.. is that skill? |
Enjoy your pint. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:20 - Oct 17 with 2321 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 02:37 - Oct 17 by Lohengrin |
You may not want to hear this, Lisa, but not every woman out there has the morals of Edith Cavell. |
no, of course they don't, but the whole point is that even silly, p*ssed up tarts (if that's what you want to call them) have the right to say 'No'. And if they do, it's then rape.
What if a bloke is out and gets very drunk and on the way home gets assaulted and robbed at knifepoint? It's still just as much of a crime as if he was completely sober and walking home from work. You don't hear judges up and down the country saying 'ah, but if he was sober he'd have his wits about him and it would be less likely to happen' - it would be less likely, but doesn't change the crime. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:20 - Oct 17 with 2319 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:14 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge |
Enjoy your pint. |
It's lemonade.. (he thought I was on about beer).. I don't drink.. I think I'll have a beer after this shenanigans.. as it goes.. I've heard alcoholics are on 350 a week these days on benefits.. it's a career option Ux.. thanks for the advice. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:25 - Oct 17 with 2307 views | Uxbridge |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:20 - Oct 17 by skippyjack |
It's lemonade.. (he thought I was on about beer).. I don't drink.. I think I'll have a beer after this shenanigans.. as it goes.. I've heard alcoholics are on 350 a week these days on benefits.. it's a career option Ux.. thanks for the advice. |
No worries, it sounds a career path you at least have the right skills for  | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:36 - Oct 17 with 2280 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:25 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge |
No worries, it sounds a career path you at least have the right skills for |
I've always wondered.. I think I'll go and study about the human body.. get pissed everyday while I'm studying.. qualify.. leave without a job to go into.. and become an alcoholic.. while also having the knowledge of liver regeneration and vitamin supplements to keep my brain active.. to keep me going.. then I'll get the nhs to pay for my transplant to keep me going.. I could survive for at least 50 years | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
| |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:36 - Oct 17 with 2229 views | acejack3065 |
Would he be allowed to resume a career in teaching?
Would he be allowed to resume a career in the police?
Would he even be allowed to resume his studies in a University?
Why on earth should he be allowed to resume his well paid career just because he's served his time?
Like it or not, footballers are role models to young people so they have to accept that they are held to high account over their personal lives. There is no room for discussion on the fact that he raped a woman and was found guilty by his peers. Therefore he has to live with the consequences of that. Anyone who thinks they can justify his behaviour or lessen his crime need to just stop typing before they dig themselves deeper. That goes double for the people who think its sensible to take a swipe at a rape victim. How sexist does your frame of mind actually have to be for that thought to even enter your mind.
I don't believe that this is the case that we need to be drawing a precedent for because there have been some nasty pieces of work that have put their boots back on after serving time. This case does however need to remind those in control of football clubs that they need to be holding their players to a higher standard of behaviour because as I have said before, footballers are role models.
He isn't the worst person in football, Luke McCormick shouldn't be playing football, let alone captaining Plymouth Argyle. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:44 - Oct 17 with 2217 views | jackb |
He might be getting less flak if he showed some understanding of what he did, some scrap of remorse, but no - just acting hard done by and using his money and 'influence' as a celebrity! - famous for being a rapist - sad!! |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:54 - Oct 17 with 2204 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:36 - Oct 17 by acejack3065 |
Would he be allowed to resume a career in teaching?
Would he be allowed to resume a career in the police?
Would he even be allowed to resume his studies in a University?
Why on earth should he be allowed to resume his well paid career just because he's served his time?
Like it or not, footballers are role models to young people so they have to accept that they are held to high account over their personal lives. There is no room for discussion on the fact that he raped a woman and was found guilty by his peers. Therefore he has to live with the consequences of that. Anyone who thinks they can justify his behaviour or lessen his crime need to just stop typing before they dig themselves deeper. That goes double for the people who think its sensible to take a swipe at a rape victim. How sexist does your frame of mind actually have to be for that thought to even enter your mind.
I don't believe that this is the case that we need to be drawing a precedent for because there have been some nasty pieces of work that have put their boots back on after serving time. This case does however need to remind those in control of football clubs that they need to be holding their players to a higher standard of behaviour because as I have said before, footballers are role models.
He isn't the worst person in football, Luke McCormick shouldn't be playing football, let alone captaining Plymouth Argyle. |
Role Model's? Dear God.. they dive, cheat, moan, give the ref stick.. shag prostitutes.. Rape, Kill, waste money on junk.. sniff drugs like a Cuban... and all get away with it.. instead of being a bastion of goodwill.. like visit 'disabled' people's homes.. Hospitals everyday.. old people's homes.. kids who are homeless or live in one bed hostels.. orphans homes.. soldiers who have lost legs in combat.. trying to rehabilitate their lives.. immigrants who flee and try to escape 'real' poverty.. learn a lot more about life like.. because their 'intense' 'physical' 3 hour work out is apparently 'mentally' challenging.. if they visit these places and take it all in.. they wouldn't have to worry about 'mentally'.. it can also be a team bonding exercise.. the old school managers like Clough.. Fergie.. Shankly.. Paisley.. Ramsey.. Busby.. all had understanding.. it's about instilling this understanding.. Monk needs to work out his players.. and see a different side to them.. the most important thing on these expeditions.. is watching if they take it all in.. if they're not.. get some advice from an old head. [Post edited 17 Oct 2014 12:54]
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| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:01 - Oct 17 with 2182 views | epaul |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:44 - Oct 17 by jackb |
He might be getting less flak if he showed some understanding of what he did, some scrap of remorse, but no - just acting hard done by and using his money and 'influence' as a celebrity! - famous for being a rapist - sad!! |
Apparently he is releasing a video statement on his website in a few days time |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:05 - Oct 17 with 2178 views | LeonisGod |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 00:50 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001 |
what part of 'he broke into a hotel room that wasn't his' do people not understand?
This isn't about 2 people going back to a room pissed up - she did that with his mate which is why his mate wasn't done for anything (and neither should he have been).
A woman saying yes to one bloke is not saying yes to his mate who lets himself into that mate's room - it does not happen up and down the country every weekend. It's not that complicated a case and yet everyone seems to be struggling with the facts (thankfully the people on the jury were able to understand). |
How do you know she said no? How do you know she was unconscious? Neither of these claims were made at the trial according to anything published (I believe).
These was a good summary about this provided on another forum. I'll see if I can find it... |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:10 - Oct 17 with 2168 views | LeonisGod |
... here it is. Not my words, but I largely agree with the view here that is is far from a clear case.
"It was an incredibly thought-provoking trial for a general public largely unexposed to the somewhat variegated complexion of rape cases in this country. The complainant had no recollection of any of the events of the final few hours preceding her attack, nor could she remember anything of the events that took place inside the hotel room. She contacted the police to report her drink had been spiked and her handbag+mobile lost/stolen. On interviewing Clayton McDonald and Ched Evans (tracked through hotel CCTV, credit cards and booking references) the police had at that stage no charges to level and were very much still searching for clues, with no forensic evidence of any sexual act being found on the complainant. Thus it was in light of their accounts of engaging in consensual sex that charges could be and were brought against them. On account of the woman's complete memory loss, CCTV evidence and that of the hotel staff necessarily became paramount.
The prosecution produced footage of the heavily drunk complainant struggling to retain her balance and falling over outside a kebab shop. Yet she was notably able to also pay with the correct money using change from her purse and spurn the advances of another male, while holding conversations with other customers and consuming some of their meals. The defence countered with the footage outside and at the Premier Inn reception, in which the complainant was shown to be able to walk unaided, remember that she had left her pizza box outside, hurry back on her own to reclaim it one-handed before returning to Clayton's side, and to send what was later shown to be a coherent, correctly spelt and capitalised text message to a friend.
The hotel porter testified to her saying to Clayton at reception “you are not going to leave me are you”, before they retired to a room pre-booked under Ched Evans' name. The porter also testified to the complainant being conspicuously very drunk, although in control of her actions. The toxicology reports found no evidence that her drinks had been spiked, but traces of cannabis, cocaine and blood alcohol levels 2.5 times above the drinking drive limit. The expert evidence refuted the complainant's contention the drugs were only the lingering residue of a one-off experimentation a week or so prior to the night in question, but also cast doubt that they would have had a discernible effect on the complainant's intoxication level over the course of the event.
The CCTV footage being the last time the complainant was seen before entering the hotel room with Clayton, it is altogether unsurprising that he was found not guilty of rape. Ched arrived 10 minutes afterwards and secured himself a key under false pretences, knowing the hotel rules on occupancy numbers and aware that Clayton was probably already engaged with the complainant (Clayton having texted him of the situation on his journey to the hotel room with the girl).
The account of the two men was one of Ched entering the room without the complainant's prior knowledge of his impending arrival, whereby he watched the two for a period with their conscious approval before receiving permission from the complainant to join in. They then both recount a graphic description of the activities that unfolded and depict a woman both heavily involved and enjoying herself. The porter testifies to having followed after Ched to the room (suspicious of the occupancy numbers) and eavesdropped for a short period while all three were inside. He claimed to hear both female and male voices obviously engaged in sexual activity.
Shortly after this Clayton returned to the main foyer and asked the night porter to ‘keep an eye out’ for the girl in the room, before exiting the hotel. Ched left shortly afterwards by the fire door, citing that it was closer and that he was embarrassed to walk past reception not long after fabricating a yarn in order to gain a spare key. There was also the added unease that he had just cheated on his girlfriend. Ched described the complainant's reaction to his departure as one of huffing in disgust.
The prosecution referred to the calculated, planned nature of Evans' arrival at the hotel, something that was contended by the taxi driver who drove him there. He reported to the trip being a last minute diversion from the initial destination that was St Asaph police station, where one of Ched's friends was residing for an incident earlier in the evening. The taxi driver also testified to Ched asking him to 'just wait a couple of minutes before he returned' on entering the hotel, something the defence pointed to as an obvious indication that Ched hadn't initially planned to involve himself in the bedroom activities unfolding but only have a quick peek at who Clayton had brought back.
Ched Evans was found guilty of rape. It was a verdict that, upon the full release of the evidence, I cannot deny that I felt uncomfortable with. That he acted with social propriety is indisputable, but that there exists a distinction between this and rape needs no elaboration. When the complainant entered the hotel room she had no knowledge that Ched would be intruding on her and Clayton, albeit the only reason we know this is because the two defendants chose to divulge such information. It is thus far from beyond the realms of possibility that the complainant found herself in a frightening position, one in which she could not say no. The evidence from the eavesdropping porter certainly doesn't support such a picture, but neither does it wholly dismiss it.
Finding Ched guilty on account that she was adjudged too intoxicated, however, when considering the short window of time between the CCTV footage and Ched's arrival, coupled with Clayton's not guilty verdict... it's difficult to reconcile, in my conscience at least. I of course appreciate the highly controversial, although also entirely factual, nature of the content in this post, especially considering he was found guilty or a truly heinous crime that often leaves its victims with lifelong psychological scarring. I do sincerely apologise for any offence or distress thus caused; I am not an apologist of rape or sexual exploitation in any guise. Moreover I do not mean to conjecture from the above that Ched is innocent of the crime for which he has been condemned; that he is the victim of a genuine miscarriage of justice. It is just the inherent inconclusiveness and extreme dearth of any positive evidence present that begs the question 'what was it that convinced the jury as to their verdict?'
Attempting to place oneself in the complainant's shoes (and in these very particular circumstances I would contend it is almost possible to), honestly I could not have watched those tapes of my last known movements and proceeded with the indictments. The thought of destroying the life of a potentially innocent individual would be a cross I simply could not bear." | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:10 - Oct 17 with 2168 views | Uxbridge |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:01 - Oct 17 by epaul |
Apparently he is releasing a video statement on his website in a few days time |
He's a blogger as well? Oh lord. That should be a lifetime ban right there, along with all the other self-publicisers.
He really needs to shut up and keep his head down. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:10 - Oct 17 with 2167 views | Lohengrin |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 12:44 - Oct 17 by jackb |
He might be getting less flak if he showed some understanding of what he did, some scrap of remorse, but no - just acting hard done by and using his money and 'influence' as a celebrity! - famous for being a rapist - sad!! |
He's convinced of his innocence and he's standing his ground. Being convicted by a court is absolutely no guarantee of the truth behind an allegation, we've seen that time and again. Why should he pretend to be remorseful just for a quiet life? That would be rank cowardice, nobody with a backbone would countenance that. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:26 - Oct 17 with 2129 views | Le_Swans |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:10 - Oct 17 by LeonisGod |
... here it is. Not my words, but I largely agree with the view here that is is far from a clear case.
"It was an incredibly thought-provoking trial for a general public largely unexposed to the somewhat variegated complexion of rape cases in this country. The complainant had no recollection of any of the events of the final few hours preceding her attack, nor could she remember anything of the events that took place inside the hotel room. She contacted the police to report her drink had been spiked and her handbag+mobile lost/stolen. On interviewing Clayton McDonald and Ched Evans (tracked through hotel CCTV, credit cards and booking references) the police had at that stage no charges to level and were very much still searching for clues, with no forensic evidence of any sexual act being found on the complainant. Thus it was in light of their accounts of engaging in consensual sex that charges could be and were brought against them. On account of the woman's complete memory loss, CCTV evidence and that of the hotel staff necessarily became paramount.
The prosecution produced footage of the heavily drunk complainant struggling to retain her balance and falling over outside a kebab shop. Yet she was notably able to also pay with the correct money using change from her purse and spurn the advances of another male, while holding conversations with other customers and consuming some of their meals. The defence countered with the footage outside and at the Premier Inn reception, in which the complainant was shown to be able to walk unaided, remember that she had left her pizza box outside, hurry back on her own to reclaim it one-handed before returning to Clayton's side, and to send what was later shown to be a coherent, correctly spelt and capitalised text message to a friend.
The hotel porter testified to her saying to Clayton at reception “you are not going to leave me are you”, before they retired to a room pre-booked under Ched Evans' name. The porter also testified to the complainant being conspicuously very drunk, although in control of her actions. The toxicology reports found no evidence that her drinks had been spiked, but traces of cannabis, cocaine and blood alcohol levels 2.5 times above the drinking drive limit. The expert evidence refuted the complainant's contention the drugs were only the lingering residue of a one-off experimentation a week or so prior to the night in question, but also cast doubt that they would have had a discernible effect on the complainant's intoxication level over the course of the event.
The CCTV footage being the last time the complainant was seen before entering the hotel room with Clayton, it is altogether unsurprising that he was found not guilty of rape. Ched arrived 10 minutes afterwards and secured himself a key under false pretences, knowing the hotel rules on occupancy numbers and aware that Clayton was probably already engaged with the complainant (Clayton having texted him of the situation on his journey to the hotel room with the girl).
The account of the two men was one of Ched entering the room without the complainant's prior knowledge of his impending arrival, whereby he watched the two for a period with their conscious approval before receiving permission from the complainant to join in. They then both recount a graphic description of the activities that unfolded and depict a woman both heavily involved and enjoying herself. The porter testifies to having followed after Ched to the room (suspicious of the occupancy numbers) and eavesdropped for a short period while all three were inside. He claimed to hear both female and male voices obviously engaged in sexual activity.
Shortly after this Clayton returned to the main foyer and asked the night porter to ‘keep an eye out’ for the girl in the room, before exiting the hotel. Ched left shortly afterwards by the fire door, citing that it was closer and that he was embarrassed to walk past reception not long after fabricating a yarn in order to gain a spare key. There was also the added unease that he had just cheated on his girlfriend. Ched described the complainant's reaction to his departure as one of huffing in disgust.
The prosecution referred to the calculated, planned nature of Evans' arrival at the hotel, something that was contended by the taxi driver who drove him there. He reported to the trip being a last minute diversion from the initial destination that was St Asaph police station, where one of Ched's friends was residing for an incident earlier in the evening. The taxi driver also testified to Ched asking him to 'just wait a couple of minutes before he returned' on entering the hotel, something the defence pointed to as an obvious indication that Ched hadn't initially planned to involve himself in the bedroom activities unfolding but only have a quick peek at who Clayton had brought back.
Ched Evans was found guilty of rape. It was a verdict that, upon the full release of the evidence, I cannot deny that I felt uncomfortable with. That he acted with social propriety is indisputable, but that there exists a distinction between this and rape needs no elaboration. When the complainant entered the hotel room she had no knowledge that Ched would be intruding on her and Clayton, albeit the only reason we know this is because the two defendants chose to divulge such information. It is thus far from beyond the realms of possibility that the complainant found herself in a frightening position, one in which she could not say no. The evidence from the eavesdropping porter certainly doesn't support such a picture, but neither does it wholly dismiss it.
Finding Ched guilty on account that she was adjudged too intoxicated, however, when considering the short window of time between the CCTV footage and Ched's arrival, coupled with Clayton's not guilty verdict... it's difficult to reconcile, in my conscience at least. I of course appreciate the highly controversial, although also entirely factual, nature of the content in this post, especially considering he was found guilty or a truly heinous crime that often leaves its victims with lifelong psychological scarring. I do sincerely apologise for any offence or distress thus caused; I am not an apologist of rape or sexual exploitation in any guise. Moreover I do not mean to conjecture from the above that Ched is innocent of the crime for which he has been condemned; that he is the victim of a genuine miscarriage of justice. It is just the inherent inconclusiveness and extreme dearth of any positive evidence present that begs the question 'what was it that convinced the jury as to their verdict?'
Attempting to place oneself in the complainant's shoes (and in these very particular circumstances I would contend it is almost possible to), honestly I could not have watched those tapes of my last known movements and proceeded with the indictments. The thought of destroying the life of a potentially innocent individual would be a cross I simply could not bear." |
So what about the two men that were outside the window filming this? Did she consent to that also? | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:32 - Oct 17 with 2113 views | dickythorpe |
The sad fact is that many rapists who have served time are walking our streets, yet we are totally unaware of who they are.
For Ched to resume his career as a pro footballer is irresponsible by the FA.
If he does, it wont be long before some other "incident" occurs with him. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:38 - Oct 17 with 2100 views | JackSomething |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:10 - Oct 17 by Lohengrin |
He's convinced of his innocence and he's standing his ground. Being convicted by a court is absolutely no guarantee of the truth behind an allegation, we've seen that time and again. Why should he pretend to be remorseful just for a quiet life? That would be rank cowardice, nobody with a backbone would countenance that. |
Alternatively, he may full well be guilty, yet he's been advised by his 'people' that his best chance of getting a contract with a club is to cynically claim innocence and defend his actions.
Either scenario is plausible as very few people know the truth of what happened that night.
Some people choose to believe that as he was convicted in a court of law, he's guilty. It also doesn't help that even was he not guilty of rape, the whole situation sounds like the kind of murky area most of us would steer clear of.
Others choose to believe that because she was a woman who was out partying and had consented to sex with one man, she's fair game for another man to 'have a go' and for other men to record the event. Hopefully this sort of misogyny will continue to decline as older generations pass away. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:50 - Oct 17 with 2076 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:26 - Oct 17 by Le_Swans |
So what about the two men that were outside the window filming this? Did she consent to that also? |
Indeed surprising for an ad hoc visit that the two with him knew where the room window was and decided to video his quick peek.
"Ched hadn't initially planned to involve himself in the bedroom activities unfolding but only have a quick peek at who Clayton had brought back." |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:03 - Oct 17 with 2048 views | C_jack |
If you take the word 'professional footballer' out of it, or substitute it for any other occupation, then nobody gives a s**t.
As it goes, majority of people are jealous of the money and subsequent lifestyle that comes with such an occupation, and are so bitter that they will do anything to deny him his right to carry on working his 'trade'.
Reality. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:16 - Oct 17 with 2023 views | JackSomething |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:03 - Oct 17 by C_jack |
If you take the word 'professional footballer' out of it, or substitute it for any other occupation, then nobody gives a s**t.
As it goes, majority of people are jealous of the money and subsequent lifestyle that comes with such an occupation, and are so bitter that they will do anything to deny him his right to carry on working his 'trade'.
Reality. |
Yeah, I love all rapists me, unless they're footballers of course.
I've no doubt that some people meet your description. Trying to pin that on everyone is pathetic though and says more about you than anyone else. | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:19 - Oct 17 with 2003 views | C_jack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:16 - Oct 17 by JackSomething |
Yeah, I love all rapists me, unless they're footballers of course.
I've no doubt that some people meet your description. Trying to pin that on everyone is pathetic though and says more about you than anyone else. |
Where did I pin that on everyone then? Have a go at reading it again. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:20 - Oct 17 with 1997 views | Le_Swans |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:03 - Oct 17 by C_jack |
If you take the word 'professional footballer' out of it, or substitute it for any other occupation, then nobody gives a s**t.
As it goes, majority of people are jealous of the money and subsequent lifestyle that comes with such an occupation, and are so bitter that they will do anything to deny him his right to carry on working his 'trade'.
Reality. |
Most other occupations wouldn't allow him to work for them. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:23 - Oct 17 with 1994 views | C_jack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:20 - Oct 17 by Le_Swans |
Most other occupations wouldn't allow him to work for them. |
Oh ok so no convicted rapist has ever got back into work?
They must all just sit at home bored, watching the tele for the rest of their life. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:28 - Oct 17 with 1976 views | Le_Swans |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:23 - Oct 17 by C_jack |
Oh ok so no convicted rapist has ever got back into work?
They must all just sit at home bored, watching the tele for the rest of their life. |
Umm, I said most. Any decent company that warrants a DBS check before starting I'd imagine would turn him down. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:29 - Oct 17 with 1972 views | monmouth |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 13:10 - Oct 17 by LeonisGod |
... here it is. Not my words, but I largely agree with the view here that is is far from a clear case.
"It was an incredibly thought-provoking trial for a general public largely unexposed to the somewhat variegated complexion of rape cases in this country. The complainant had no recollection of any of the events of the final few hours preceding her attack, nor could she remember anything of the events that took place inside the hotel room. She contacted the police to report her drink had been spiked and her handbag+mobile lost/stolen. On interviewing Clayton McDonald and Ched Evans (tracked through hotel CCTV, credit cards and booking references) the police had at that stage no charges to level and were very much still searching for clues, with no forensic evidence of any sexual act being found on the complainant. Thus it was in light of their accounts of engaging in consensual sex that charges could be and were brought against them. On account of the woman's complete memory loss, CCTV evidence and that of the hotel staff necessarily became paramount.
The prosecution produced footage of the heavily drunk complainant struggling to retain her balance and falling over outside a kebab shop. Yet she was notably able to also pay with the correct money using change from her purse and spurn the advances of another male, while holding conversations with other customers and consuming some of their meals. The defence countered with the footage outside and at the Premier Inn reception, in which the complainant was shown to be able to walk unaided, remember that she had left her pizza box outside, hurry back on her own to reclaim it one-handed before returning to Clayton's side, and to send what was later shown to be a coherent, correctly spelt and capitalised text message to a friend.
The hotel porter testified to her saying to Clayton at reception “you are not going to leave me are you”, before they retired to a room pre-booked under Ched Evans' name. The porter also testified to the complainant being conspicuously very drunk, although in control of her actions. The toxicology reports found no evidence that her drinks had been spiked, but traces of cannabis, cocaine and blood alcohol levels 2.5 times above the drinking drive limit. The expert evidence refuted the complainant's contention the drugs were only the lingering residue of a one-off experimentation a week or so prior to the night in question, but also cast doubt that they would have had a discernible effect on the complainant's intoxication level over the course of the event.
The CCTV footage being the last time the complainant was seen before entering the hotel room with Clayton, it is altogether unsurprising that he was found not guilty of rape. Ched arrived 10 minutes afterwards and secured himself a key under false pretences, knowing the hotel rules on occupancy numbers and aware that Clayton was probably already engaged with the complainant (Clayton having texted him of the situation on his journey to the hotel room with the girl).
The account of the two men was one of Ched entering the room without the complainant's prior knowledge of his impending arrival, whereby he watched the two for a period with their conscious approval before receiving permission from the complainant to join in. They then both recount a graphic description of the activities that unfolded and depict a woman both heavily involved and enjoying herself. The porter testifies to having followed after Ched to the room (suspicious of the occupancy numbers) and eavesdropped for a short period while all three were inside. He claimed to hear both female and male voices obviously engaged in sexual activity.
Shortly after this Clayton returned to the main foyer and asked the night porter to ‘keep an eye out’ for the girl in the room, before exiting the hotel. Ched left shortly afterwards by the fire door, citing that it was closer and that he was embarrassed to walk past reception not long after fabricating a yarn in order to gain a spare key. There was also the added unease that he had just cheated on his girlfriend. Ched described the complainant's reaction to his departure as one of huffing in disgust.
The prosecution referred to the calculated, planned nature of Evans' arrival at the hotel, something that was contended by the taxi driver who drove him there. He reported to the trip being a last minute diversion from the initial destination that was St Asaph police station, where one of Ched's friends was residing for an incident earlier in the evening. The taxi driver also testified to Ched asking him to 'just wait a couple of minutes before he returned' on entering the hotel, something the defence pointed to as an obvious indication that Ched hadn't initially planned to involve himself in the bedroom activities unfolding but only have a quick peek at who Clayton had brought back.
Ched Evans was found guilty of rape. It was a verdict that, upon the full release of the evidence, I cannot deny that I felt uncomfortable with. That he acted with social propriety is indisputable, but that there exists a distinction between this and rape needs no elaboration. When the complainant entered the hotel room she had no knowledge that Ched would be intruding on her and Clayton, albeit the only reason we know this is because the two defendants chose to divulge such information. It is thus far from beyond the realms of possibility that the complainant found herself in a frightening position, one in which she could not say no. The evidence from the eavesdropping porter certainly doesn't support such a picture, but neither does it wholly dismiss it.
Finding Ched guilty on account that she was adjudged too intoxicated, however, when considering the short window of time between the CCTV footage and Ched's arrival, coupled with Clayton's not guilty verdict... it's difficult to reconcile, in my conscience at least. I of course appreciate the highly controversial, although also entirely factual, nature of the content in this post, especially considering he was found guilty or a truly heinous crime that often leaves its victims with lifelong psychological scarring. I do sincerely apologise for any offence or distress thus caused; I am not an apologist of rape or sexual exploitation in any guise. Moreover I do not mean to conjecture from the above that Ched is innocent of the crime for which he has been condemned; that he is the victim of a genuine miscarriage of justice. It is just the inherent inconclusiveness and extreme dearth of any positive evidence present that begs the question 'what was it that convinced the jury as to their verdict?'
Attempting to place oneself in the complainant's shoes (and in these very particular circumstances I would contend it is almost possible to), honestly I could not have watched those tapes of my last known movements and proceeded with the indictments. The thought of destroying the life of a potentially innocent individual would be a cross I simply could not bear." |
That is so clearly biased that anyone could give it any credence is laughable. Do you seriously think any jury would have convicted if that was a true and fair summary of the case?
Ched secured himself a key under false pretences because he wouldn't break the hotel occupancy rules FFS. He left through the fire exit because he was too embarrassed to walk past reception. Did his dog eat his homework too? |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:32 - Oct 17 with 1969 views | C_jack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 14:28 - Oct 17 by Le_Swans |
Umm, I said most. Any decent company that warrants a DBS check before starting I'd imagine would turn him down. |
Evans (and others) are automatically put on the sex offenders register which bars them from working in health, social care etc.
Criminals (and rapists) get out of jail every day, most of them will get some sort of job and return to society. | |
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