| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? 23:42 - Oct 16 with 40352 views | jackrabbit |
You'd think so from all the pompous pontification dominating the airwaves in the last few days. Pompous-Prat-in-Chief, Nick Clegg piled in with his fourpennorth today and in true Cleggy style managed to sway me right over onto the side of Evans. I had not given it much thought or had an opinion before - I wasn't that aware of Evans either as a footballer or a person - but I decided to read about the case.
From what I understand he went bed pissed wth a pissed-up 19 year old and sex took place - there was no physical violence. I wasn't there so i don't know the precise details. There was another person involved but he got off relatively mildly - Evans received a hefty jail term.
Now having served his fairly hefty sentence, he is being threatened with denial of his right to earn a living by continuing his career.
Now rape is a foul and terrible crime. However I have problem with some of these situations being described as 'rape'. Without being crass, when does 'persuasive and persistent seduction' carry over into 'rape'? I always thought it was when it was accompanied by force or violence to get your way. I am so glad I'm an old fart and was young when I was young in the 60s and 70s.
Since time immemorial women (and men) have woken up, taken one look at the head on the pillow next to them and instantly regretted the night before. Usually it has been logged under 'big mistake - not to be repeated' and then the person has just gone away and carried on with life. Je ne regrette rien. There was a song about it. Now all too often there is the cry of 'RAPE!' And the inevitable court case. As I say I'm talking generally and not specifically about the Evans case, but I am uneasy about the vilification that's taking place and I certainly see no reason why he should not return to his day job, - playing football.
Let all those who have not had a pissed-up one-night stand with a pissed-up bird, cast the first stone.
I'm now going to brace myself for the abuse! |  | | |  |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? (n/t) on 23:13 - Oct 17 with 1800 views | jackrabbit |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? (n/t) on 23:08 - Oct 17 by jackrabbit |
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"And by the way - persistent seduction (by which I assume you mean failing to accept it when the woman (sorry, 'bird') says no) is rape when the woman says no. It's not that difficult to understand surely. And by saying you're glad you were young in the 60s and 70s - I do hope that you don't mean 'when women were told to shut up and get on with it' if they tried to report rape."
My generation has nothing to learn from the current generation about respect and treatment of the opposite sex. It was a great time to be single - whether boy or girl - and yes, seduction was a normal part of any relationship and women were grown up enough to handle it. Women didn't go around permanently masquerading as victims. As somebody wrote on another board:
"This is what makes me feel uncomfortable about the whole thing. I've had a few too many beers and woken up next to a girl who's name I can't remember. Does that make me a rapist?"
Thank God I was never asked to produce a signature of consent to sex. Yes there is a natural interaction between the sexes called seduction. If she didn't want it she'd bloody well let you know and no mistake. It never turned into RAPE. But the sexual jousting of 'courting couples' (that dates me) has been the stuff of life since Adam and Eve. Long may it last and it will. Besides being the stuff of life it's also been the stuff of comedy.
'Oh no! - we'd better not - I want to be a virgin when I get married. Besides, it always makes me sore'.
By the way London Lisa,
Let all those who have not had a pissed-up one-night stand with a pissed-up BLOKE cast the first stone. Of course, you may be exempt - you probably are. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? (n/t) on 23:14 - Oct 17 with 1798 views | monmouth |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? (n/t) on 23:08 - Oct 17 by jackrabbit |
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Your finest post yet. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 23:18 - Oct 17 with 1791 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 22:09 - Oct 17 by Chief |
I wasn't there, so I don't know, but from what i've read, it sounds like Evans has been stitched up.
http://www.chedevans.com/
he was a silly boy yes, and shouldn't have put himself in this position, but from where I'm standing, it stinks. |
That's life chief.. As someone said to me earlier on.. I suggest learning some human skills.. Instead of moaning about how unfair he's been treated.. Nobody except one person.. Gave a f*ck.. When I simply asked for a job.. F*ck him.. Like everyone f*cks me. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 23:22 - Oct 17 with 1776 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 22:14 - Oct 17 by Chief |
and banning him from football? what else is he going to do? apply for Tesco? what if they have a petition to stop him from working there too? will people hound him into unemployment? craziness.
if he cant go back to professional football, will be he allowed to play football recreationally? to what standard? its a minefield. |
I was unemployed.. Who gives a f*ck about me?.. Lazy, Scrounger, Unskilled.. Let him rot in unemployment.. See how it feels.. That'll learn him. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? (n/t) on 23:39 - Oct 17 with 1752 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? (n/t) on 23:13 - Oct 17 by jackrabbit |
"And by the way - persistent seduction (by which I assume you mean failing to accept it when the woman (sorry, 'bird') says no) is rape when the woman says no. It's not that difficult to understand surely. And by saying you're glad you were young in the 60s and 70s - I do hope that you don't mean 'when women were told to shut up and get on with it' if they tried to report rape."
My generation has nothing to learn from the current generation about respect and treatment of the opposite sex. It was a great time to be single - whether boy or girl - and yes, seduction was a normal part of any relationship and women were grown up enough to handle it. Women didn't go around permanently masquerading as victims. As somebody wrote on another board:
"This is what makes me feel uncomfortable about the whole thing. I've had a few too many beers and woken up next to a girl who's name I can't remember. Does that make me a rapist?"
Thank God I was never asked to produce a signature of consent to sex. Yes there is a natural interaction between the sexes called seduction. If she didn't want it she'd bloody well let you know and no mistake. It never turned into RAPE. But the sexual jousting of 'courting couples' (that dates me) has been the stuff of life since Adam and Eve. Long may it last and it will. Besides being the stuff of life it's also been the stuff of comedy.
'Oh no! - we'd better not - I want to be a virgin when I get married. Besides, it always makes me sore'.
By the way London Lisa,
Let all those who have not had a pissed-up one-night stand with a pissed-up BLOKE cast the first stone. Of course, you may be exempt - you probably are. |
women who are raped are not 'masquerading as victims' - I cannot believe that you genuinely don't know the difference between consensual sex and rape.
And I never needed the bloke to be pissed to be interested to be honest. You obviously found pissed up women to be a great help to your seduction technique ! |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 00:05 - Oct 18 with 1735 views | acejack3065 |
This thread is genuinely embarrassing.
We have people pretending that footballers aren't role models for kids and that Ched Evans is only a rapist by the virtue of 12 people on a jury.
He raped a woman.FACT.
If he was a teacher, doctor or any other profession he wouldn't regain his previous employment. FACT.
There is a glaring omission here. People are only opposing his impending employment in football because of the almost shameless ease that his path back into football is being paved for him.
What next for Ched Evans? The same that happens to the other released rapists, murderers and paedos. A low key, low wage, low respect, reintegration back into society. F*ck him, the dirty rapist. |  | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 00:37 - Oct 18 with 1708 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 00:05 - Oct 18 by acejack3065 |
This thread is genuinely embarrassing.
We have people pretending that footballers aren't role models for kids and that Ched Evans is only a rapist by the virtue of 12 people on a jury.
He raped a woman.FACT.
If he was a teacher, doctor or any other profession he wouldn't regain his previous employment. FACT.
There is a glaring omission here. People are only opposing his impending employment in football because of the almost shameless ease that his path back into football is being paved for him.
What next for Ched Evans? The same that happens to the other released rapists, murderers and paedos. A low key, low wage, low respect, reintegration back into society. F*ck him, the dirty rapist. |
It isn't embarrassing.. some people's professions could be questioned on here.. they should genuinely watch what they're saying on here.. somebody is always watching.. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 09:43 - Oct 18 with 1634 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 22:20 - Oct 17 by Chief |
there's a lot of talk about him having sex with an unconscious girl, wheres this come from?
the girl says she cant remember what happened so she does have a clue whether she was awake or not. |
Unconscious and awake are not necessarily mutually exclusive, although as far as I can ascertain the only female sound the concerned listening night porter could hear from the room was in the nature of grunts which even a sleeping person may make.
Both said the girl was asked if Ched could join in and reported that she said "yeah" (supposedly while the first one was still having sex with her) however there is contradiction as to which one supposedly asked her - as both said they did.
This is the whole thrust of the case that she was not deemed fit to consent in the state she was witnessed to be in, in the case where someone let themselves into the bedroom, (unknown to her and uninvited) whilst she was naked on the bed having just been / still being engaged in sex with someone who she at least went up to the room with.
She was quite consistent that she had no recollection of what went on.
Does that mean anyone who turns up can have a go regardless of her state. Or because she is not a 15 year old virgin she is fair game. |  | | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:02 - Oct 18 with 1619 views | Chief |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 09:43 - Oct 18 by Spratty |
Unconscious and awake are not necessarily mutually exclusive, although as far as I can ascertain the only female sound the concerned listening night porter could hear from the room was in the nature of grunts which even a sleeping person may make.
Both said the girl was asked if Ched could join in and reported that she said "yeah" (supposedly while the first one was still having sex with her) however there is contradiction as to which one supposedly asked her - as both said they did.
This is the whole thrust of the case that she was not deemed fit to consent in the state she was witnessed to be in, in the case where someone let themselves into the bedroom, (unknown to her and uninvited) whilst she was naked on the bed having just been / still being engaged in sex with someone who she at least went up to the room with.
She was quite consistent that she had no recollection of what went on.
Does that mean anyone who turns up can have a go regardless of her state. Or because she is not a 15 year old virgin she is fair game. |
Intoxicated consent is still consent my friend. Look at the 'Bree' case. How a jury convicted Evans and how is was sent down for 2 years is crazy. How come McDonald got off? She was able to consent to him? But then after having no further alcohol, she wasn't able to consent to Evans? Too many unanswered questions to convict (based on what I've heard)(if further evidence comes to light, I'll hold my hand up and say I was wrong). The judge had a made and the jury were swayed by Evans's questionable but not illegal acts that night |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:08 - Oct 18 with 1615 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:02 - Oct 18 by Chief |
Intoxicated consent is still consent my friend. Look at the 'Bree' case. How a jury convicted Evans and how is was sent down for 2 years is crazy. How come McDonald got off? She was able to consent to him? But then after having no further alcohol, she wasn't able to consent to Evans? Too many unanswered questions to convict (based on what I've heard)(if further evidence comes to light, I'll hold my hand up and say I was wrong). The judge had a made and the jury were swayed by Evans's questionable but not illegal acts that night |
Doesn't matter.. he's got to stop moaning life's unfair.. and learn some valuable skills.. law is law.. the system is the system.. f*ck him. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:12 - Oct 18 with 1610 views | monmouth |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:02 - Oct 18 by Chief |
Intoxicated consent is still consent my friend. Look at the 'Bree' case. How a jury convicted Evans and how is was sent down for 2 years is crazy. How come McDonald got off? She was able to consent to him? But then after having no further alcohol, she wasn't able to consent to Evans? Too many unanswered questions to convict (based on what I've heard)(if further evidence comes to light, I'll hold my hand up and say I was wrong). The judge had a made and the jury were swayed by Evans's questionable but not illegal acts that night |
Were you on the jury then mate? You seem to know exactly what happened and what they did and why. If you weren't, all your comments are just pointless conjecture and hot air. Evans is a convicted rapist, that is the only fact you can be sure of. All the apologists in the world, projecting their own behavioural standards onto the circumstances, can't change that. . | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:15 - Oct 18 with 1599 views | Chief |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:08 - Oct 18 by skippyjack |
Doesn't matter.. he's got to stop moaning life's unfair.. and learn some valuable skills.. law is law.. the system is the system.. f*ck him. |
Well this is it, no one can give him his two years back now. He's still a wealthy man so he'll be fine, but lets no let our own misfortunes shade the thoughts we have on others | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:16 - Oct 18 with 1597 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 09:43 - Oct 18 by Spratty |
Unconscious and awake are not necessarily mutually exclusive, although as far as I can ascertain the only female sound the concerned listening night porter could hear from the room was in the nature of grunts which even a sleeping person may make.
Both said the girl was asked if Ched could join in and reported that she said "yeah" (supposedly while the first one was still having sex with her) however there is contradiction as to which one supposedly asked her - as both said they did.
This is the whole thrust of the case that she was not deemed fit to consent in the state she was witnessed to be in, in the case where someone let themselves into the bedroom, (unknown to her and uninvited) whilst she was naked on the bed having just been / still being engaged in sex with someone who she at least went up to the room with.
She was quite consistent that she had no recollection of what went on.
Does that mean anyone who turns up can have a go regardless of her state. Or because she is not a 15 year old virgin she is fair game. |
"She was quite consistent that she had no recollection of what went on.
Does that mean anyone who turns up can have a go regardless of her state. Or because she is not a 15 year old virgin she is fair game."
No, what it means is that the repeated assertion in this thread that it is a fact she was raped is not verifiable and therefore objectively not true.
As a corollary the charge that his failure to show remorse is a damning indictment is typical manufactured petit bourgeois outrage, given that he has consistently maintained his innocence.
BTW, speaking of positions consistently maintained, I find the assertion that the girl remembers nothing highly implausible given she appears to have only had a couple of hours hard binge drinking time.
As I see it the issue is this; could a tanked up and charlied up girl your pick up at 3:30am outside a kebab shop and persuade to come back to some hotel room, be additionally predisposed to a bit of two's up?
Certainly not outside the realms of possibility, I'd say. |  |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:28 - Oct 18 with 1574 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:02 - Oct 18 by Chief |
Intoxicated consent is still consent my friend. Look at the 'Bree' case. How a jury convicted Evans and how is was sent down for 2 years is crazy. How come McDonald got off? She was able to consent to him? But then after having no further alcohol, she wasn't able to consent to Evans? Too many unanswered questions to convict (based on what I've heard)(if further evidence comes to light, I'll hold my hand up and say I was wrong). The judge had a made and the jury were swayed by Evans's questionable but not illegal acts that night |
Only in certain circumstances primarily when still deemed fit to make that decision
As I have said before:
To take a very drunken girl back to your hotel room on a one to one to have sex with them is highly questionable.
To let yourself into a room where you know this has occurred and have sex with that girl is another matter altogether, as it seems the jury concluded. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:29 - Oct 18 with 1571 views | skippyjack |
As I've said a thousand times.. law is law.. life is unfortunate.. f*ck him.. like people f*ck me.. simple really.. I see no sympathy towards me (a non criminal).. so why sympathise with him?.. I'm really scratching my head.. and professions will be looked at after this thread.. keep your heads down if I were you. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:30 - Oct 18 with 1567 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:16 - Oct 18 by Shaky |
"She was quite consistent that she had no recollection of what went on.
Does that mean anyone who turns up can have a go regardless of her state. Or because she is not a 15 year old virgin she is fair game."
No, what it means is that the repeated assertion in this thread that it is a fact she was raped is not verifiable and therefore objectively not true.
As a corollary the charge that his failure to show remorse is a damning indictment is typical manufactured petit bourgeois outrage, given that he has consistently maintained his innocence.
BTW, speaking of positions consistently maintained, I find the assertion that the girl remembers nothing highly implausible given she appears to have only had a couple of hours hard binge drinking time.
As I see it the issue is this; could a tanked up and charlied up girl your pick up at 3:30am outside a kebab shop and persuade to come back to some hotel room, be additionally predisposed to a bit of two's up?
Certainly not outside the realms of possibility, I'd say. |
So you concede it is objectively not true that he did not rape her | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:35 - Oct 18 with 1558 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 22:31 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001 |
if you look at OJSimpson.com that probably gives an unbiased view of what happened to him as well.
Laughable. |
Indeed the last place you would look for totally impartial information.
Shame she has not the resources to set up a similar glitzy website with her version of events.
Instead it seems given the social media hate campaign against her and the fact her identity was repeatedly exposed (that will teach women to complain of rape) she has had to go into hiding and be given a new identity. And they say footballers are not idolised. Meanwhile Ched is at home in the bosom of his family.
Why was the hotel room booked if no one actually stayed in it?
An example from the website of their slick manipulation - why do they put:
On the way to the Premier Inn Clayton sent a message to Ched saying words to the effect of
‘I am with a girl'
when they know full well that the text actually said ‘I’ve got a bird’
Why did they put their version in quotes when it was not a quote
And all under the heading of: Key and Undisputed Facts - tut tut
Perhaps on the victims website she could equally and maybe even more accurately interpreted this as words to the effect of "I have procured a p1ssed up bird for us  - see you soon"
Why does the website not mention his previous experience of threesomes etc. etc. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:36 - Oct 18 with 1556 views | Shaky |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:30 - Oct 18 by Spratty |
So you concede it is objectively not true that he did not rape her |
No. I state as a fact that it is incorrect to claim it is a fact that rape occurred. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:38 - Oct 18 with 1545 views | controversial_jack |
Visit a knocking shop instead. Just pay up and no hassle - apparently! | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:40 - Oct 18 with 1538 views | Lohengrin |
Spratty - She has got the resources to do whatever she likes, she did "win big" after all. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:44 - Oct 18 with 1527 views | skippyjack |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:40 - Oct 18 by Lohengrin |
Spratty - She has got the resources to do whatever she likes, she did "win big" after all. |
Doesn't matter lohengrin.. laws are laws.. as corrupt as this system is.. you've got to obey the laws.. he's a convicted rapist.. therefore should be thrown in With the 'boys'.. life's tough mate.. no fairness in life.. rapist for me. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:53 - Oct 18 with 1519 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:40 - Oct 18 by Lohengrin |
Spratty - She has got the resources to do whatever she likes, she did "win big" after all. |
I would welcome a source if you are making that as a serious claim - or is it just a comment similar to the slick misrepresenting website?
It is reported.....
"To the best of our knowledge she did not receive any compensation.
Neither did she profit from the trial by, say, seeking to sell her story to a newspaper. She never did ‘win big’. Or even attempt to" | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:16 - Oct 18 with 1492 views | Spratty |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:36 - Oct 18 by Shaky |
No. I state as a fact that it is incorrect to claim it is a fact that rape occurred. |
Tell it to the Judge and appeal court - I think the term convicted rapist has been mostly used.
"a fact she was raped is not verifiable and therefore objectively not true."
Following your statement of logic and the natural laws of logic you are indeed stating it is objectively not true that he did not rape her. So the claims of his website are false.
We could get into what constitutes reality, true and false, guilty and innocent. Or we could look at the actual meaning of the word rape in narrow and broad definition.
As I stated I think she has been consistent in her claim of not remembering anything after the kebab shop. Therefore the whole judgement depended on other evidence. | | | |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:21 - Oct 18 with 1479 views | Chief |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:28 - Oct 18 by Spratty |
Only in certain circumstances primarily when still deemed fit to make that decision
As I have said before:
To take a very drunken girl back to your hotel room on a one to one to have sex with them is highly questionable.
To let yourself into a room where you know this has occurred and have sex with that girl is another matter altogether, as it seems the jury concluded. |
lets be honest, she seems like a bit of a girl, we know that from the fact she liked the white powder (it was in her blood stream from nights before) and the weed.
Finishing work at half 12, then hitting the town alone an hour later? then being smashed pissed by half 3 and hanging round kebab shops alone, she must have been chucking them back.
theres no doubt Evans let himself into the room and had sex with her. no doubt about that. its not a nice or honourable thing to do. but its not illegal. | |
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| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 11:28 - Oct 18 with 1465 views | Lohengrin |
| Ched Evans - is he the evil incarnate? on 10:53 - Oct 18 by Spratty |
I would welcome a source if you are making that as a serious claim - or is it just a comment similar to the slick misrepresenting website?
It is reported.....
"To the best of our knowledge she did not receive any compensation.
Neither did she profit from the trial by, say, seeking to sell her story to a newspaper. She never did ‘win big’. Or even attempt to" |
I don't have a clue as to what money she's had but here are some of her comments.
Edit: Link deleted. [Post edited 18 Oct 2014 12:10]
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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