| legal action 17:51 - Oct 20 with 4451 views | patchboy |
stoke are considering taking legal action against monk and hartson. |  | | |  |
| legal action on 19:51 - Oct 20 with 1315 views | Dan_Swan |
| legal action on 19:50 - Oct 20 by ScoobyWho |
I thought there had to be a point in law or a breach of some form of legislation for there to be legal redress ? |
If you are referring to my post there are laws in football, not rules. [Post edited 20 Oct 2014 19:53]
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| Still following Dr's orders! |
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| legal action on 19:56 - Oct 20 with 1298 views | ScoobyWho |
| legal action on 19:51 - Oct 20 by Dan_Swan |
If you are referring to my post there are laws in football, not rules. [Post edited 20 Oct 2014 19:53]
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I'm not sure what your reply means Dan. But my original post remains. For legal redress in a civil court to be successful there has to be a breach of whatever law Stoke deem broken. I assume.
With me ? |  |
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| legal action on 20:01 - Oct 20 with 1286 views | Dan_Swan |
| legal action on 19:56 - Oct 20 by ScoobyWho |
I'm not sure what your reply means Dan. But my original post remains. For legal redress in a civil court to be successful there has to be a breach of whatever law Stoke deem broken. I assume.
With me ? |
They will see the comments as defamatory I suppose and in turn damaging to the club and player.
Monk said it's not slanderous saying someone cheated but I think differently.
I thought you were responding to my point with regards to nthe legalities of things on the pitch. Misunderstanding sorry. | |
| Still following Dr's orders! |
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| legal action on 20:03 - Oct 20 with 1280 views | Joe_bradshaw |
Presumably Stoke are suggesting defamation of character by calling Moses a cheat.
It's just posturing of course. |  |
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| legal action on 20:03 - Oct 20 with 1280 views | ScoobyWho |
| legal action on 20:01 - Oct 20 by Dan_Swan |
They will see the comments as defamatory I suppose and in turn damaging to the club and player.
Monk said it's not slanderous saying someone cheated but I think differently.
I thought you were responding to my point with regards to nthe legalities of things on the pitch. Misunderstanding sorry. |
No just coincidental.
;-) | |
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| legal action on 20:13 - Oct 20 with 1259 views | LeonisGod |
| legal action on 19:48 - Oct 20 by Dan_Swan |
I'm not disputing the legalities of anything, grabbing a shirt is a foul yes, but how can the said shirt pull result in losing the use of your legs? |
Indeed the two aren't mutually exclusive. Rangel had a little pull (and it was little by standards you normally see - a foul? Probably, yes). but the ref wouldn't have seen that. You couldn't see it in the TV replays from that side and it wasn't enough in any way to affect Moses' movement.
At the same time, Moses was throwing himself to the ground. I'm fairly sure he was simulating a trip looking back at the replays, but only he knows that. And I'm fairly sure it was given on the pretences of a trip.
But I'm seriously over analysing now. He dived. It's that simple. |  | | |
| legal action on 20:48 - Oct 20 with 1193 views | longlostjack |
| legal action on 19:33 - Oct 20 by JackFish |
I think the problem is, and we've seen it ourselves, is that quite often referees don't give the foul unless you go down. Look at the Hull goal at Arsenal on the weekend, a clear foul but because Flamini stayed on his feet the ref ignored it and Hull scored. When players are not being given decisions unless they go to ground it's no surprise that the amount of diving increases. |
This |  |
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| legal action on 21:02 - Oct 20 with 1162 views | airedale |
I know that sometimes players have to go to ground when they are fouled, but what grates is simulation when they haven't been fouled. |  | | |
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| legal action on 21:15 - Oct 20 with 1141 views | JethroJack |
| legal action on 18:02 - Oct 20 by Private_Partz |
Have you seen the pictures Jethro? We would be done up like a kipper. If this is the case then an apology is in order. Unfortunately it will detract from Monk's very good case that we have been having raw deals from refs.
Monk was mistaken and it could be argued that Angel has actually told porkies on the official site. |
Yes I have and Moses dived before Angel tugged his shirt and anyway tugging would not have caused him to collapse like he'd been shot by a sniper in the stand! The way he fell would have required a hard shove in the lower back, which didn't happen. Straight out of the Suarez School of Simulation, I'd give him 9/10 for style & 0/10 for content. |  | | |
| legal action on 22:13 - Oct 20 with 1084 views | Slugster664 |
| legal action on 18:12 - Oct 20 by _ |
You can't go calling fellow pro's cheats!! Even when someone has blatantly dived you almost never, if at all ever, hear managers or players using that word.
We should have issued an apology by now and man'd up about it all. |
And this is why it is happening in the game regularly. People pussy-foot around afraid of upsetting bellends in high places, well done Gary Monk. It's called moral courage btw. |  |
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| legal action on 22:22 - Oct 20 with 1064 views | MrSwerve |
Get video refs in and instant red cards for simulation. |  |
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| legal action on 22:36 - Oct 20 with 1042 views | ScoobyWho |
| legal action on 20:13 - Oct 20 by LeonisGod |
Indeed the two aren't mutually exclusive. Rangel had a little pull (and it was little by standards you normally see - a foul? Probably, yes). but the ref wouldn't have seen that. You couldn't see it in the TV replays from that side and it wasn't enough in any way to affect Moses' movement.
At the same time, Moses was throwing himself to the ground. I'm fairly sure he was simulating a trip looking back at the replays, but only he knows that. And I'm fairly sure it was given on the pretences of a trip.
But I'm seriously over analysing now. He dived. It's that simple. |
I agree, and have seen many views on the interweb tonight that Rangel was grabbing at him seconds after Moses had already started diving - he was grabbing at him to to drag him back up.
Over analysing is what courts do, if legal action is referred, in precise detail as I see it, your doing nothing different. | |
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| legal action on 22:40 - Oct 20 with 1034 views | Private_Partz |
| legal action on 21:15 - Oct 20 by JethroJack |
Yes I have and Moses dived before Angel tugged his shirt and anyway tugging would not have caused him to collapse like he'd been shot by a sniper in the stand! The way he fell would have required a hard shove in the lower back, which didn't happen. Straight out of the Suarez School of Simulation, I'd give him 9/10 for style & 0/10 for content. |
I cannot not argue with most of that and had Rangel not tugged his shirt then there would not have been any doubt in the matter. The fact he was hanging on to his shirt has left the whole issue open to doubt for those outside who want to criticise the club. There is no doubt who is a cheat when no contact is made. There was contact on this occasion. In my opinion Gary should have checked the facts before calling the player a cheat.
I say that he went down easily after Rangel had grabbed his shirt. If he was on his way down already then surely it would have been pointless grabbing him unless he was trying to stop him falling which is very unlikely.
Gary has made some very good points about the raw deal we are having from refs but I feel this has detracted from the argument rather than helping it. He has also left himself open to a fine or a touch line ban which cannot be good for the team.
I am not saying he should not have said anything but he could have made his point in a more savvy manner and not left himself open to punishment from the FA who are now on his case. |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
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| legal action on 23:01 - Oct 20 with 1005 views | JJJack |
| legal action on 22:40 - Oct 20 by Private_Partz |
I cannot not argue with most of that and had Rangel not tugged his shirt then there would not have been any doubt in the matter. The fact he was hanging on to his shirt has left the whole issue open to doubt for those outside who want to criticise the club. There is no doubt who is a cheat when no contact is made. There was contact on this occasion. In my opinion Gary should have checked the facts before calling the player a cheat.
I say that he went down easily after Rangel had grabbed his shirt. If he was on his way down already then surely it would have been pointless grabbing him unless he was trying to stop him falling which is very unlikely.
Gary has made some very good points about the raw deal we are having from refs but I feel this has detracted from the argument rather than helping it. He has also left himself open to a fine or a touch line ban which cannot be good for the team.
I am not saying he should not have said anything but he could have made his point in a more savvy manner and not left himself open to punishment from the FA who are now on his case. |
Great post. No chance of legal action...the Swans lawyers would have a field day over precedents.i.e., the lack of times anyone has sued yet people have made similar accusations against other players. I'd like Monk to have got his point across a little more subtly. |  | | |
| legal action on 23:07 - Oct 20 with 989 views | ScoobyWho |
| legal action on 23:01 - Oct 20 by JJJack |
Great post. No chance of legal action...the Swans lawyers would have a field day over precedents.i.e., the lack of times anyone has sued yet people have made similar accusations against other players. I'd like Monk to have got his point across a little more subtly. |
He has tried tho, and failed, he has even done a presentation mun ;-)
He is frustrated, the club obviously means a lot to him, and when he leaves it will clearly tear him apart. Thats the problem when you take a job like manager, coach etc. Only one way out. Lucky for him I think the club wont be as harsh with GM as they would with an 'outsider' he will get lots of time. [Post edited 20 Oct 2014 23:17]
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| legal action on 23:11 - Oct 20 with 981 views | JJJack |
| legal action on 23:07 - Oct 20 by ScoobyWho |
He has tried tho, and failed, he has even done a presentation mun ;-)
He is frustrated, the club obviously means a lot to him, and when he leaves it will clearly tear him apart. Thats the problem when you take a job like manager, coach etc. Only one way out. Lucky for him I think the club wont be as harsh with GM as they would with an 'outsider' he will get lots of time. [Post edited 20 Oct 2014 23:17]
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Yeah, you are right. He has to learn, and quickly. That was the 1st time I've seen him exasperated and clearly out of control in an interview but then again, Warnock, Fergie, Mourinho, Wenger, BFS etc have constantly done this but usually nowt is done. Double standards rule supreme dependant upon who you are. | | | |
| legal action on 23:18 - Oct 20 with 974 views | Spratty |
| legal action on 22:40 - Oct 20 by Private_Partz |
I cannot not argue with most of that and had Rangel not tugged his shirt then there would not have been any doubt in the matter. The fact he was hanging on to his shirt has left the whole issue open to doubt for those outside who want to criticise the club. There is no doubt who is a cheat when no contact is made. There was contact on this occasion. In my opinion Gary should have checked the facts before calling the player a cheat.
I say that he went down easily after Rangel had grabbed his shirt. If he was on his way down already then surely it would have been pointless grabbing him unless he was trying to stop him falling which is very unlikely.
Gary has made some very good points about the raw deal we are having from refs but I feel this has detracted from the argument rather than helping it. He has also left himself open to a fine or a touch line ban which cannot be good for the team.
I am not saying he should not have said anything but he could have made his point in a more savvy manner and not left himself open to punishment from the FA who are now on his case. |
Ha it would nice to think that we are so gentlemanly in our play that we would grab players shirts to stop them from falling so they can carry on to score the goal.
We just love those old style values it's the Swansea way
That is the case for the defence m'lud
Think it is indeed pretty clear to see that the shirt was grabbed and tugged down before the drop to the knees began (slo mo MOTD2 or 1st photo pretty conclusive). |  | | |
| legal action on 00:10 - Oct 21 with 926 views | jazzswan |
It all comes down to the choice of words and structure of sentence Gary used post MATCH. When asked a direct question as to what was his opinion of the award to Stoke of their penalty, his response should have been...
"In response to your question, as everyone is aware, managers are Not allowed to comment on disgusting and incompetent refereeing decisions. Further more, I am not allowed to call an opposition player a diving, cheating, bas***d who may con an incompetent referee and who should be ashamed of himself. So I am therefore unable to make a comment regarding the award of a penalty to Stoke" | | | |
| legal action on 00:16 - Oct 21 with 918 views | C_jack |
The club can be doing without this, and so easily avoidable.
You cannot call anyone a cheat, it's really that simple. |  |
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| legal action on 11:53 - Oct 21 with 836 views | Swanzay |
I see this as nothing more than Stoke just making some noise about the situation to protect their own. I very much doubt any form of legal action will transpire. |  | | |
| legal action on 12:10 - Oct 21 with 812 views | 1jack |
| legal action on 23:11 - Oct 20 by JJJack |
Yeah, you are right. He has to learn, and quickly. That was the 1st time I've seen him exasperated and clearly out of control in an interview but then again, Warnock, Fergie, Mourinho, Wenger, BFS etc have constantly done this but usually nowt is done. Double standards rule supreme dependant upon who you are. |
Nail, head, hit. |  | | |
| legal action on 12:41 - Oct 21 with 779 views | somersetsimon |
| legal action on 20:01 - Oct 20 by Dan_Swan |
They will see the comments as defamatory I suppose and in turn damaging to the club and player.
Monk said it's not slanderous saying someone cheated but I think differently.
I thought you were responding to my point with regards to nthe legalities of things on the pitch. Misunderstanding sorry. |
Wouldn't the club or the player have to show that they could suffer financially from the defamation? To be honest I don't think seeing Stoke City branded as unsportsmanlike or Victor Moses as a diving cheat is going to make any difference to their earning potential.
Incidentally, if you look at the link to the BBC story about this on Facebook, I'd 99% of people are in agreement that it was a dive, regardless of whether Rangel touched him and that Garry was right to say what he said. |  | | |
| legal action on 13:05 - Oct 21 with 750 views | swan65split |
DIVE or not a dive? somehow I do not think that the Great John Charles or former Stoke favourite Sir Stanley Mathews would go down like a sack of sh*te after being tickled do you? |  | | |
| legal action on 13:17 - Oct 21 with 733 views | Tom1912 |
I fully expect Garry Monk to get charged and receive a fine while Moses will completely get away with it.
It's fine to cheat and alter results that can potentially have multi-illion pound consequences but if you call a player a cheat after they've cheated, apparently that's widely inappropriate and crossing a line. How does that make any sense?
Monk should have known better and shown constraint because frankly, that's the way things are, but my god, what a mess football is in with regard to this problem. | | | |
| legal action on 15:34 - Oct 21 with 700 views | Dewi1jack |
| legal action on 13:05 - Oct 21 by swan65split |
DIVE or not a dive? somehow I do not think that the Great John Charles or former Stoke favourite Sir Stanley Mathews would go down like a sack of sh*te after being tickled do you? |
You're right.
But Pratley, Gomez or Chico would have.
As well as many others playing for so called bigger teams (Cole, Suarez, Welbeck, Robben, Carroll etc)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1554100-25-of-the-biggest-divers-in-world-foo
as well as those being murdered on the pitch (RVP).
FA/ UEFA/ FIFA need to have retrospective powers to ban ANYONE found to be diving to cheat the ref. 3 or 4 game ban would make the managers sort it out.
But the same rules must be applied equally to every club, from the top of the PL to the bottom of the conference.
Maybe, just maybe GM's comments may help to fuel a change.
But I won't hold my breath |  |
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