| Ched again on 14:12 - Nov 21 with 1189 views | Darran |
Ched should have had Controversial to defend him. |  |
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| Ched again on 14:17 - Nov 21 with 1179 views | controversial_jack |
| Ched again on 14:07 - Nov 21 by londonlisa2001 |
she hasn't accused anyone actually,nor was it her word against anyone else's - she said all along she had no memory, but don't let the facts get in the way. |
Seems facts don't really matter in this case |  | | |
| Ched again on 14:21 - Nov 21 with 1169 views | skippyjack |
| Ched again on 14:12 - Nov 21 by Darran |
Ched should have had Controversial to defend him. |
What is your opinion Darran.. Will this be a lesson to all the other males who have drunken sex in a hotel room?.. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched again on 14:25 - Nov 21 with 1159 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 14:17 - Nov 21 by controversial_jack |
Seems facts don't really matter in this case |
well you were the one that said she had accused someone. She didn't.
And the facts do matter, but only the ones on the Ched Evans website - even the ones that were inadmissible in the trial. The other facts, the ones that Ched evans doesn't want to mention - those facts don't matter at all.
It's like the ccty footage. The only one that is important is on his web site - that's important enough for them to have posted without permission and in direct contravention of any law in this country that means that the victim's anonymity is preserved for ever. The other cctv footage isn't important at all. | | | |
| Ched again on 14:27 - Nov 21 with 1154 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 14:21 - Nov 21 by skippyjack |
What is your opinion Darran.. Will this be a lesson to all the other males who have drunken sex in a hotel room?.. |
so that's what you think happened here? Two drunk people went back to a hotel room together did they? And one of those was Ched Evans? | | | |
| Ched again on 14:30 - Nov 21 with 1132 views | controversial_jack |
The message to all males is, do not have drunken sex, find a knocking shop, pay your money, no hassle | | | |
| Ched again on 14:35 - Nov 21 with 1125 views | skippyjack |
| Ched again on 14:27 - Nov 21 by londonlisa2001 |
so that's what you think happened here? Two drunk people went back to a hotel room together did they? And one of those was Ched Evans? |
Lisa.. what Ched has done.. happens every weekend.. have you ever watched Geordie Shore?.. youngsters these days are f*cking mad.. you walk into the police station.. ask them in the hotels.. as you've said you're 47.. this stuff happens every weekend.. are police going to start arresting other blokes.. plus the concept that.. women are f*cking mental. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Ched again on 14:36 - Nov 21 with 1119 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 14:30 - Nov 21 by controversial_jack |
The message to all males is, do not have drunken sex, find a knocking shop, pay your money, no hassle |
Really?
And I thought the message here was a woman going back to a hotel room drunk or otherwise with one male is not actually consenting to that male inviting his mates to break into the room afterwards and help themselves. | | | |
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| Ched again on 14:40 - Nov 21 with 1108 views | controversial_jack |
| Ched again on 14:36 - Nov 21 by londonlisa2001 |
Really?
And I thought the message here was a woman going back to a hotel room drunk or otherwise with one male is not actually consenting to that male inviting his mates to break into the room afterwards and help themselves. |
The message is, " do not put yourselves in the position where you can be accused of anything. males or females" | | | |
| Ched again on 14:40 - Nov 21 with 1108 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 14:35 - Nov 21 by skippyjack |
Lisa.. what Ched has done.. happens every weekend.. have you ever watched Geordie Shore?.. youngsters these days are f*cking mad.. you walk into the police station.. ask them in the hotels.. as you've said you're 47.. this stuff happens every weekend.. are police going to start arresting other blokes.. plus the concept that.. women are f*cking mental. |
no it doesn't happen every weekend.
You are confusing her going back with one bloke with a completely different bloke that she had never met letting himself into the room afterwards and having sex with her without her consent.
The facts are not that difficult to understand really, and yet so many appear to be very confused. | | | |
| Ched again on 14:58 - Nov 21 with 1088 views | controversial_jack |
| Ched again on 14:40 - Nov 21 by londonlisa2001 |
no it doesn't happen every weekend.
You are confusing her going back with one bloke with a completely different bloke that she had never met letting himself into the room afterwards and having sex with her without her consent.
The facts are not that difficult to understand really, and yet so many appear to be very confused. |
It's nothing to do with facts or the victims - I doubt there's much sympathy here for the accused or the defendant,it's political. There's a lot of pressure on the police and CPS, because rape and sexual offences do not result in a high rate of conviction, so when a nice easy case involving drunken fools arises then let's get a conviction | | | |
| Ched again on 15:06 - Nov 21 with 1074 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 14:58 - Nov 21 by controversial_jack |
It's nothing to do with facts or the victims - I doubt there's much sympathy here for the accused or the defendant,it's political. There's a lot of pressure on the police and CPS, because rape and sexual offences do not result in a high rate of conviction, so when a nice easy case involving drunken fools arises then let's get a conviction |
nice theory.
Of course, since she didn't make any allegation of rape it wouldn't have shown up as a case resulting in no conviction but again, why let facts get in the way. | | | |
| Ched again on 15:15 - Nov 21 with 1057 views | controversial_jack |
| Ched again on 15:06 - Nov 21 by londonlisa2001 |
nice theory.
Of course, since she didn't make any allegation of rape it wouldn't have shown up as a case resulting in no conviction but again, why let facts get in the way. |
It was always going to be a conviction, that's why it was processed | | | |
| Ched again on 12:46 - Nov 22 with 947 views | Kilkennyjack |
Lisa is quite correct. The victim did not consent and therefore it is rape. It really is that simple. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Ched again on 13:05 - Nov 22 with 927 views | Shaky |
| Ched again on 12:46 - Nov 22 by Kilkennyjack |
Lisa is quite correct. The victim did not consent and therefore it is rape. It really is that simple. |
And how exactly do you know that?
BTW welcome back Lisa - thought you were a gonner for a while. |  |
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| Ched again on 13:19 - Nov 22 with 900 views | Shaky |
My prediction is this; I believe the Criminal Cases Review Commission will refer the case to the Court of Appeals on the grounds of deficient jury instruction, and that the original conviction will be overturned.
As a result the blind authoritarian jingoists who think the the English legal system is so great will not only have to grapple with the fact that mistakes are made, but that additionally the more money you can throw at at defence, the better your chances of getting off. | |
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| Ched again on 13:49 - Nov 22 with 867 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 13:05 - Nov 22 by Shaky |
And how exactly do you know that?
BTW welcome back Lisa - thought you were a gonner for a while. |
thank you Shaky - no just away for a few days and the internet doesn't come very high up on my list of priorities when I'm away, particularly if there is no game. | | | |
| Ched again on 13:59 - Nov 22 with 859 views | controversial_jack |
| Ched again on 13:19 - Nov 22 by Shaky |
My prediction is this; I believe the Criminal Cases Review Commission will refer the case to the Court of Appeals on the grounds of deficient jury instruction, and that the original conviction will be overturned.
As a result the blind authoritarian jingoists who think the the English legal system is so great will not only have to grapple with the fact that mistakes are made, but that additionally the more money you can throw at at defence, the better your chances of getting off. |
"The doors of justice are open to all, so are the Savoy's." | | | |
| Ched again on 14:03 - Nov 22 with 853 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 13:19 - Nov 22 by Shaky |
My prediction is this; I believe the Criminal Cases Review Commission will refer the case to the Court of Appeals on the grounds of deficient jury instruction, and that the original conviction will be overturned.
As a result the blind authoritarian jingoists who think the the English legal system is so great will not only have to grapple with the fact that mistakes are made, but that additionally the more money you can throw at at defence, the better your chances of getting off. |
if your legal eagle ways are leading you to assume that they'll try something based on specific instructions or otherwise to the jury about 'drunken consent' you should know that the last failed appeal was partially based around that and was turned down by the court of appeal.
Indeed, they have already raised the following on appeal, so couldn't do so again:
(1) Inconsistent verdicts
(2) Lack of specific direction on drunken consent and on the affect of memory loss on valid consent
(3) Fresh evidence around the loss of memory issue, from both a witness and an expert
(4) Whether to apply a lurking doubt principle
In order for deficient jury instruction to be used it would have to be something else.
By the way - your last point - the more money you can throw at defence the better your chances of getting off is without doubt true, here and in most other countries I would think if not all. | | | |
| Ched again on 14:11 - Nov 22 with 840 views | Shaky |
| Ched again on 14:03 - Nov 22 by londonlisa2001 |
if your legal eagle ways are leading you to assume that they'll try something based on specific instructions or otherwise to the jury about 'drunken consent' you should know that the last failed appeal was partially based around that and was turned down by the court of appeal.
Indeed, they have already raised the following on appeal, so couldn't do so again:
(1) Inconsistent verdicts
(2) Lack of specific direction on drunken consent and on the affect of memory loss on valid consent
(3) Fresh evidence around the loss of memory issue, from both a witness and an expert
(4) Whether to apply a lurking doubt principle
In order for deficient jury instruction to be used it would have to be something else.
By the way - your last point - the more money you can throw at defence the better your chances of getting off is without doubt true, here and in most other countries I would think if not all. |
What I have in mind has nothing to do with consent.
As for equal justice for all, that is not true.
Controversial was right when he said the UK had an adversarial legal system, where the judge in effect acts like a sort of umpire between competing teams of lawyers. Here the odds are stacked in favour of the best team,
However, in the alternative inquisitorial systems used in many countries, the judge acts like an examiner trying to get to the bottom of the case and establish facts. I doubt few would seriously dispute this results in a considerably more level playing field. | |
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| Ched again on 14:23 - Nov 22 with 822 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ched again on 14:11 - Nov 22 by Shaky |
What I have in mind has nothing to do with consent.
As for equal justice for all, that is not true.
Controversial was right when he said the UK had an adversarial legal system, where the judge in effect acts like a sort of umpire between competing teams of lawyers. Here the odds are stacked in favour of the best team,
However, in the alternative inquisitorial systems used in many countries, the judge acts like an examiner trying to get to the bottom of the case and establish facts. I doubt few would seriously dispute this results in a considerably more level playing field. |
where did I say it was true? I said the reverse.
And as for jury instruction we'll see. But it has already been said that the judge was highly experienced and was very careful in summing up and jury instruction so it'll be interesting to see them try to say his instruction was flawed in some way. They've already tried a number of attacks and none of them has made it past first post as yet. | | | |
| Ched again on 14:26 - Nov 22 with 808 views | Shaky |
| Ched again on 14:23 - Nov 22 by londonlisa2001 |
where did I say it was true? I said the reverse.
And as for jury instruction we'll see. But it has already been said that the judge was highly experienced and was very careful in summing up and jury instruction so it'll be interesting to see them try to say his instruction was flawed in some way. They've already tried a number of attacks and none of them has made it past first post as yet. |
I do believe an adjudication by the chief independent invigilator is now warranted.  | |
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| Ched again on 20:30 - Nov 22 with 736 views | ItchySphincter |
| Ched again on 13:19 - Nov 22 by Shaky |
My prediction is this; I believe the Criminal Cases Review Commission will refer the case to the Court of Appeals on the grounds of deficient jury instruction, and that the original conviction will be overturned.
As a result the blind authoritarian jingoists who think the the English legal system is so great will not only have to grapple with the fact that mistakes are made, but that additionally the more money you can throw at at defence, the better your chances of getting off. |
That could happen but those of us who have faith in the system will probably find it easier to accept than those of you that can't accept that under current circumstances he is a convicted rapist. It really is that simple. |  |
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| Ched again on 23:20 - Nov 22 with 689 views | jackrabbit |
Who broke into the room? This conviction stinks. There'll be a lot of humble pie eaten if Evans wins his appeal as I fully expect him too.
Read JJJack on page 2 of this thread:
"I'm not going to cast moral judgement on the behaviour of any of these 3 on the night as it's clear they were drunk and not thinking straight. But if you familiarise yourself with the story, the very short timescales tend to suggest that it probably wasn't rape. For the life of me how this conviction ever occurred is beyond me....either they're both guilty (Macdonald/Evans) or neither are.
FWIW, if she had of been "comatose" then I 100% think it's rape in this instance. However the chances are that 15 to 20 mins after walking in and out of the hotel on her own, unaided, not staggering etc and after the Porter said he could hear her AFTER Evans went in the room then I find it highly unlikely she wasn't in a position to consent. The conviction i think is unsafe at best.
I don't expect everyone to suddenly have sympathy for Evans but personally I can see why he has apologised for his stupidity but NOT for the "rape" as why would someone apologise for a crime like that when they believed/knew damn well they hadn;t done it??" |  | | |
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