| Ched again on 16:38 - Nov 18 with 1419 views | acejack3065 |
| Ched again on 14:07 - Nov 18 by Highjack |
Become a D.J and present Top of the Pops? |
Well played. |  | |  |
| Ched again on 18:53 - Nov 18 with 1373 views | cockett_jack |
| Ched again on 20:55 - Nov 17 by acejack3065 |
Yes there is at least one player that I can name off the top of my head who has killed someone. Plymouths goalkeeper Luke McCormick killed two young boys in a traffic collision which was a result of him driving drunk. He should also never have played again.
Just because you've been to prison and "served your time" doesn't mean the slate is wiped clean. There are still repercussions for committing the crime and you have to adjust your life accordingly. Regardless of time served a teacher could not teach if he's a convicted sex offender, nor could a pharmacist continue to work as one if found guilty of even a minor drug offence.
People don't object to ched Evans working again. People object to the possiblity of him resuming his handsomely paid, high profile profession where he is a role model to objectionable young males. |
Well said |  | | |
| Ched again on 20:21 - Nov 18 with 1325 views | marchamjack |
At this point he is a convicted rapist. That's an unarguable fact.
Would you feel 100% comfortable with him playing for us at this time?
I'll go first...100% comfortable? Absolutely not. |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Ched again on 21:23 - Nov 18 with 1282 views | jackrabbit |
Most sensible clear-headed comment I've read on this tawdry affair - by Allison Pearson:
"....Honestly, I’d love to. Only the Ched Evans story is far more problematic than that of a priapic predator in a dark underpass. I’ve spent two grim days reading about everything the former Welsh international did in a hotel in Rhyl in 2011. I have come to three conclusions. The first is that the verdict of the jury was inconsistent and quite possibly unsafe. The second is that the football pitches of England would be half-empty this Saturday afternoon if you removed every player who has done what Evans did. (And so would many of the clubs and pubs.)
The third conclusion is probably the most troubling. We live in an era where relationships among the young have changed beyond recognition. Casual hook-ups and the exchange of sexual favours are the norm. Even “nice” girls allow themselves to be used like inflatable dolls. (If confident enough, they can use men like playthings in return.) In such a free-for-all, what is meant by “consensual sex” becomes more and more blurred.
Sensitive readers should look away now. Footballer Clayton McDonald, a friend of Ched Evans, picked up a 19-year-old girl who was drunk at 4am, and went back to a hotel room with her. McDonald texted Evans: “I’ve got a bird.” McDonald and the girl then had sex. Evans turned up, and the court was told that the girl asked him to perform oral sex on her, which he did. Evans then had sex with the girl, whom he claimed was enjoying herself. A hotel porter said there was no sound of distress or cause for alarm. A few of the footballers’ charming mates showed up and filmed through a window. The next morning, Evans departed via an emergency exit. The 19-year-old awoke to find she was naked, with, she says, no memory of what had happened to her. That evening, she reported McDonald and Evans to the police.
It goes without saying that both footballers are sleazy opportunists, not easily mistaken for Fitzwilliam Darcy. At best, they displayed an appalling lack of judgment and treated the 19-year-old with contempt. But were they rapists? The jury at Caernarfon Crown Court decided that McDonald was not, but Evans was. Was she sober and consenting when McDonald was having sex with her, but drunk and not consenting when Evans did? A witness for the defence testified that the young woman would have had slurred speech, but he would not have expected her to suffer any memory loss. After the attack, the girl is alleged to have sent tweets boasting of “when I win big”.
I told the story to beauty therapists at a local salon. “Sounds to me like she woke up, realised she’d been dogging, felt really embarrassed about herself and called the police,” said Hayley, aged 22. The other young women agreed. Hayley told me she had almost been raped herself, when she was “totally p-----”, by her boyfriend’s best mate. She had never mentioned the incident because she thought it would make her unpopular with their social group, who would regard her as a prude. It would be Hayley who was shunned by them, not the guy. Another therapist said that lots of girls from her school went to posh London clubs to try and bag themselves the ultimate prize: a footballer. I’ll spare you the lengths those girls would go to.
The judge at the trial concluded that the complainant “lacked the capacity to consent to sexual activity”. The jury found one man not guilty; the other was jailed for five years.
My informal jury at the beauty salon concluded that, if you go to a hotel room with a footballer, “you’re not going to end up playing Scrabble, are you?” Unlike the law of the land, the twentysomething therapists believe that young women like them have to take responsibility for their own behaviour and not rely on the bloke “to know whether you want it or not”.
It’s a view shared by a solicitor I know who recently had to get a terrified kid out of the local nick. The student had been accused of rape by a girl he believed he was in a loving relationship with. The solicitor warned me to tell my son and his mates to never get into a compromising situation with a girl."
Sent from my iPad |  | | |
| Ched again on 23:23 - Nov 18 with 1235 views | JJJack |
| Ched again on 21:23 - Nov 18 by jackrabbit |
Most sensible clear-headed comment I've read on this tawdry affair - by Allison Pearson:
"....Honestly, I’d love to. Only the Ched Evans story is far more problematic than that of a priapic predator in a dark underpass. I’ve spent two grim days reading about everything the former Welsh international did in a hotel in Rhyl in 2011. I have come to three conclusions. The first is that the verdict of the jury was inconsistent and quite possibly unsafe. The second is that the football pitches of England would be half-empty this Saturday afternoon if you removed every player who has done what Evans did. (And so would many of the clubs and pubs.)
The third conclusion is probably the most troubling. We live in an era where relationships among the young have changed beyond recognition. Casual hook-ups and the exchange of sexual favours are the norm. Even “nice” girls allow themselves to be used like inflatable dolls. (If confident enough, they can use men like playthings in return.) In such a free-for-all, what is meant by “consensual sex” becomes more and more blurred.
Sensitive readers should look away now. Footballer Clayton McDonald, a friend of Ched Evans, picked up a 19-year-old girl who was drunk at 4am, and went back to a hotel room with her. McDonald texted Evans: “I’ve got a bird.” McDonald and the girl then had sex. Evans turned up, and the court was told that the girl asked him to perform oral sex on her, which he did. Evans then had sex with the girl, whom he claimed was enjoying herself. A hotel porter said there was no sound of distress or cause for alarm. A few of the footballers’ charming mates showed up and filmed through a window. The next morning, Evans departed via an emergency exit. The 19-year-old awoke to find she was naked, with, she says, no memory of what had happened to her. That evening, she reported McDonald and Evans to the police.
It goes without saying that both footballers are sleazy opportunists, not easily mistaken for Fitzwilliam Darcy. At best, they displayed an appalling lack of judgment and treated the 19-year-old with contempt. But were they rapists? The jury at Caernarfon Crown Court decided that McDonald was not, but Evans was. Was she sober and consenting when McDonald was having sex with her, but drunk and not consenting when Evans did? A witness for the defence testified that the young woman would have had slurred speech, but he would not have expected her to suffer any memory loss. After the attack, the girl is alleged to have sent tweets boasting of “when I win big”.
I told the story to beauty therapists at a local salon. “Sounds to me like she woke up, realised she’d been dogging, felt really embarrassed about herself and called the police,” said Hayley, aged 22. The other young women agreed. Hayley told me she had almost been raped herself, when she was “totally p-----”, by her boyfriend’s best mate. She had never mentioned the incident because she thought it would make her unpopular with their social group, who would regard her as a prude. It would be Hayley who was shunned by them, not the guy. Another therapist said that lots of girls from her school went to posh London clubs to try and bag themselves the ultimate prize: a footballer. I’ll spare you the lengths those girls would go to.
The judge at the trial concluded that the complainant “lacked the capacity to consent to sexual activity”. The jury found one man not guilty; the other was jailed for five years.
My informal jury at the beauty salon concluded that, if you go to a hotel room with a footballer, “you’re not going to end up playing Scrabble, are you?” Unlike the law of the land, the twentysomething therapists believe that young women like them have to take responsibility for their own behaviour and not rely on the bloke “to know whether you want it or not”.
It’s a view shared by a solicitor I know who recently had to get a terrified kid out of the local nick. The student had been accused of rape by a girl he believed he was in a loving relationship with. The solicitor warned me to tell my son and his mates to never get into a compromising situation with a girl."
Sent from my iPad |
She's got a couple of things wrong from what I gather but the gist of it is also my understanding of what went on. It's mental that he got convicted with basically no evidence. Yet McDonald got off with it. A couple of additional points to the above:
* There is CCTV evidence of this girl arriving at the Hotel with MacDonald. She goes back outside alone to retrieve her pizza, bending down in huge heeled shoes , picks it up, walks back inside unaided with her head held in the air. Impossible to judge how drunk she was except it's obvious she was "functioning" well enough and logic surely dictates that as Evans arrived within 20mins of this happening that she presumably knew what she was doing??
* The porter DID hear her voice and said so in Court. Far from being "comatose", he actually said all 3 voices could be heard , laughing and as he put it "making noises of a sexual nature". So the ONLY independent witness said he saw/heard nothing to suggest there was an assault or anything amiss.
* The girl "picked up" MacDonald shortly before they arrived at the Hotel and said "I'm coming back to the Hotel with you". They'd never spoken previously.
* Evans actually left 15 to 20mins after he arrived via a fire exit. They left her on her own. i'm guessing because Evans was in a relationship at the time?? But this seems to have swayed the jury from what I can see and let's be honest it doesn't look great.
* Allegedly this girl had cried rape previously against members of a professional rugby team....but it came to nothing. It's also true that she sent messages on FB to friends during the time the 2 guys were in the room....she deleted these as did her friends and for some reason the Police have been "unable" to retrieve these messages. Strange behaviour if she was "comatose" wouldn't you say??
I'm not going to cast moral judgement on the behaviour of any of these 3 on the night as it's clear they were drunk and not thinking straight. But if you familiarise yourself with the story, the very short timescales tend to suggest that it probably wasn't rape. For the life of me how this conviction ever occurred is beyond me....either they're both guilty (Macdonald/Evans) or neither are.
FWIW, if she had of been "comatose" then I 100% think it's rape in this instance. However the chances are that 15 to 20 mins after walking in and out of the hotel on her own, unaided, not staggering etc and after the Porter said he could hear her AFTER Evans went in the room then I find it highly unlikely she wasn't in a position to consent. The conviction i think is unsafe at best.
I don't expect everyone to suddenly have sympathy for Evans but personally I can see why he has apologised for his stupidity but NOT for the "rape" as why would someone apologise for a crime like that when they believed/knew damn well they hadn;t done it?? |  | | |
| Ched again on 01:43 - Nov 19 with 1202 views | Highjack |
| Ched again on 20:21 - Nov 18 by marchamjack |
At this point he is a convicted rapist. That's an unarguable fact.
Would you feel 100% comfortable with him playing for us at this time?
I'll go first...100% comfortable? Absolutely not. |
Probably not but it's as much to do with the fact he's a rubbish 3rd division footballer and we're in the premier league as the fact he's a rapist. |  |
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| Ched again on 04:30 - Nov 19 with 1186 views | JBT95 |
| Ched again on 01:43 - Nov 19 by Highjack |
Probably not but it's as much to do with the fact he's a rubbish 3rd division footballer and we're in the premier league as the fact he's a rapist. |
Well he's not a rubbish third division player.
I hope the guy is found innocent.
With my Wales fan cap on I wonder if she is lying, then she may be keeping the final piece of the jigsaw out of the Wales squad.
Ched could be a premier league player now if he had carried on scoring the way he was going. Bear in mind he was 23 when he went to prison. [Post edited 19 Nov 2014 4:33]
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| Ched again on 08:48 - Nov 19 with 1141 views | acejack3065 |
That's an absolutely brilliant idea. Let's speculate on whether a rape victim is telling the truth because we want a rapist to fix our international striker shortage. Absolute f**king class! | | | |
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| Ched again on 09:08 - Nov 19 with 1129 views | Darran |
One of the strangest things is that Sheffield United never knobbed him off for good.
When Ijah got done in the marching powder we knobbed him off,when Marlon King got done Wigan knobbed him off.
Weird one that SU didn't/haven't and that says a lot about them IMO. |  |
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| Ched again on 10:45 - Nov 19 with 1092 views | Shaky |
I think this is a fascinating discussion.
On the one hand we have a group that generally understands the facts of the case, and have serious concerns regarding the conviction.
On the other we have another group that tends to think it knows the facts, but has generally got completely the wrong end of the stick for example erroneously believing the girl was asleep or unconscious when all of this took place. Their only quibble with the judicial process is that the sentence wasn't stiff enough, believing instead that eternal damnation should have been the appropriate punishment dished out by the court.
Where did this urban myth that the girl was unconscious come from? I can't imagine it was in the press otherwise the press complaints commission should have scotched it long ago.
Which raises the deeply interesting question whether this myth is responsible for the blood/revenge lust of the anti-Chad camp, or whether it has arisen as a cognitive device to justify the preexisting condition of rage and revenge lust.
In total seriousness, that is in my view on of the most important social questions we face today. |  |
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| Ched again on 11:08 - Nov 19 with 1076 views | LeonisGod |
| Ched again on 20:55 - Nov 17 by acejack3065 |
Yes there is at least one player that I can name off the top of my head who has killed someone. Plymouths goalkeeper Luke McCormick killed two young boys in a traffic collision which was a result of him driving drunk. He should also never have played again.
Just because you've been to prison and "served your time" doesn't mean the slate is wiped clean. There are still repercussions for committing the crime and you have to adjust your life accordingly. Regardless of time served a teacher could not teach if he's a convicted sex offender, nor could a pharmacist continue to work as one if found guilty of even a minor drug offence.
People don't object to ched Evans working again. People object to the possiblity of him resuming his handsomely paid, high profile profession where he is a role model to objectionable young males. |
Yes, that's because there are laws/rules that do not allow convicted sex offenders to work with children, etc. There are no rules/laws that prevent convicted sex offenders to work as footballers. This is just NIMBYism. All of those making a stand at SUFC have said that he has a right to return to work, but they just don't want him to work at their club. He's perfectly entitled in the eyes of the law to return to his work. |  | | |
| Ched again on 11:35 - Nov 19 with 1054 views | acejack3065 |
| Ched again on 11:08 - Nov 19 by LeonisGod |
Yes, that's because there are laws/rules that do not allow convicted sex offenders to work with children, etc. There are no rules/laws that prevent convicted sex offenders to work as footballers. This is just NIMBYism. All of those making a stand at SUFC have said that he has a right to return to work, but they just don't want him to work at their club. He's perfectly entitled in the eyes of the law to return to his work. |
He is perfectly entitled to work as a footballer. We are discussing whether football should make a moral stand against allowing a convicted rapist to return to play football.
I don't believe that he should. Our system of judicial process which has evolved over 800 years has found him guilty and until his conviction is overturned he is a convicted rapist. He has every right to appeal his conviction even though he has already lost one attempt to clear his name. If he was a decent human being he would have attempted to do this in a humble, quiet and dignified manner. Instead he has fuelled a media circus to heap pressure on an independent judicial system and has shown absolutely no consideration to his victim. His victim, for that is what she is, cannot be named for legal reasons but has been forced to leave her family in North Wales and change her name three times in a bid to get on with her life and to escape the death threats she has received since Evans was convicted two years ago.
This case has highlighted the alarming, and frankly disgusting attitudes held towards women by some football fans. Instead of discussing whether a rapist should be allowed to play and justifying that opinion, we've had people trying to bend the definition of rape to exonerate Ched Evans. If she didn't consent or was not able to consent then its rape. You can argue about that if you want but I wouldn't because if you think that if a woman is drunk then shes fair game then your're a pig.
Lets get some facts of the case? Don't even bother looking at Ched Evans own website for the truth. You wont find it there.
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans | | | |
| Ched again on 11:38 - Nov 19 with 1048 views | Catullus |
| Ched again on 16:03 - Nov 18 by controversial_jack |
Many of these cases are simply one persons word against another's. No other criminal cases would get to court without evidence |
I disagree, many cases have gone to court with little or no evidence.
Very recently I was working with a fella who had a court case pending. He had split from his girlfriend but she wouldn't leave him alone. He reported her to the police. She turned violent, hit him in front of witnesses, he again went to the police. She wasn't even questioned.
Two weeks later, she reported him to the police, she accused him of assault. There were no witnesses, just her word.
He was arrested and charged. I don't know the outcome because I don't see him anymore. But he spoke to me about it in confidence (hence no names) and he was worried.
What about all the "historic cases" where celebs have been taken in for questioning and some charged. There is no physical evidence, often little more than the persons word against the celeb.
On the other hand, there are cases with plenty of evidence that don't get to court. Like the 5 year old girl who was raped by the 12 year old boy next door.
The boy admitted it in a taped interview, yet (and despite the police claiming otherwise) no file was ever sent to the CPS. He got a youth caution which apparently isn't allowed in cases of rape.
What I'm saying is, anything can happen, and does.
On a trip to Mansfield, one of my friends was reported to the police as having a gun. He was arrested and searched.....no gun, no weapons at all. But he was detained overnight anyway.
No wonder so many people don't trust the police.
And the more I read about Ched Evans, the more I believe his conviction is unsafe. All he's guilty of is being very stupid by putting himself in that position. And no doubt, he won't be the last pro footballer to get done like this, many of them are none too bright. |  |
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| Ched again on 11:45 - Nov 19 with 1034 views | Chief |
| Ched again on 23:23 - Nov 18 by JJJack |
She's got a couple of things wrong from what I gather but the gist of it is also my understanding of what went on. It's mental that he got convicted with basically no evidence. Yet McDonald got off with it. A couple of additional points to the above:
* There is CCTV evidence of this girl arriving at the Hotel with MacDonald. She goes back outside alone to retrieve her pizza, bending down in huge heeled shoes , picks it up, walks back inside unaided with her head held in the air. Impossible to judge how drunk she was except it's obvious she was "functioning" well enough and logic surely dictates that as Evans arrived within 20mins of this happening that she presumably knew what she was doing??
* The porter DID hear her voice and said so in Court. Far from being "comatose", he actually said all 3 voices could be heard , laughing and as he put it "making noises of a sexual nature". So the ONLY independent witness said he saw/heard nothing to suggest there was an assault or anything amiss.
* The girl "picked up" MacDonald shortly before they arrived at the Hotel and said "I'm coming back to the Hotel with you". They'd never spoken previously.
* Evans actually left 15 to 20mins after he arrived via a fire exit. They left her on her own. i'm guessing because Evans was in a relationship at the time?? But this seems to have swayed the jury from what I can see and let's be honest it doesn't look great.
* Allegedly this girl had cried rape previously against members of a professional rugby team....but it came to nothing. It's also true that she sent messages on FB to friends during the time the 2 guys were in the room....she deleted these as did her friends and for some reason the Police have been "unable" to retrieve these messages. Strange behaviour if she was "comatose" wouldn't you say??
I'm not going to cast moral judgement on the behaviour of any of these 3 on the night as it's clear they were drunk and not thinking straight. But if you familiarise yourself with the story, the very short timescales tend to suggest that it probably wasn't rape. For the life of me how this conviction ever occurred is beyond me....either they're both guilty (Macdonald/Evans) or neither are.
FWIW, if she had of been "comatose" then I 100% think it's rape in this instance. However the chances are that 15 to 20 mins after walking in and out of the hotel on her own, unaided, not staggering etc and after the Porter said he could hear her AFTER Evans went in the room then I find it highly unlikely she wasn't in a position to consent. The conviction i think is unsafe at best.
I don't expect everyone to suddenly have sympathy for Evans but personally I can see why he has apologised for his stupidity but NOT for the "rape" as why would someone apologise for a crime like that when they believed/knew damn well they hadn;t done it?? |
Also performing oral sex on a comotose girl??? Strange
Spot on. Seems he's been convicted for being a dirty baastard and a professional footballer.
But these things don't amount to raping someone |  |
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| Ched again on 11:57 - Nov 19 with 1013 views | acejack3065 |
"On 29 May 2011 the complainant finished work shortly before midnight. She drank some alcohol, went home, showered and then went to a bar, where she arrived at just after 1.30am. She drank vodka and left at about 3am. She said that she could not recall leaving the bar. She had a vague recollection of being in a kebab shop and of a large pizza box. CCTV footage, which was recovered, showed her outside the bar, inside and outside a kebab shop, and eventually her arrival at the hotel where the offence with which the court is concerned took place. The CCTV footage showed that while she was inside the kebab shop she was unsteady on her feet, at one point she fell over and landed on the floor. On the other hand, outside the kebab shop she could be seen eating pizza from a large box, although she was also seen to stumble, squat, lose her balance, and walk unsteadily. Indeed, she left her handbag in the shop. Based on this evidence, the prosecution case was that she was very drunk
The night porter described her as "extremely drunk". That reinforced the Crown's case based on the evidence of witnesses and the CCTV footage before she had arrived at the hotel."
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans | | | |
| Ched again on 12:07 - Nov 19 with 1009 views | Catullus |
| Ched again on 11:57 - Nov 19 by acejack3065 |
"On 29 May 2011 the complainant finished work shortly before midnight. She drank some alcohol, went home, showered and then went to a bar, where she arrived at just after 1.30am. She drank vodka and left at about 3am. She said that she could not recall leaving the bar. She had a vague recollection of being in a kebab shop and of a large pizza box. CCTV footage, which was recovered, showed her outside the bar, inside and outside a kebab shop, and eventually her arrival at the hotel where the offence with which the court is concerned took place. The CCTV footage showed that while she was inside the kebab shop she was unsteady on her feet, at one point she fell over and landed on the floor. On the other hand, outside the kebab shop she could be seen eating pizza from a large box, although she was also seen to stumble, squat, lose her balance, and walk unsteadily. Indeed, she left her handbag in the shop. Based on this evidence, the prosecution case was that she was very drunk
The night porter described her as "extremely drunk". That reinforced the Crown's case based on the evidence of witnesses and the CCTV footage before she had arrived at the hotel."
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans |
There is a difference between extremely drunk and comatose, and yes, I have been both. | |
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| Ched again on 14:16 - Nov 19 with 949 views | Starsky |
| Ched again on 04:30 - Nov 19 by JBT95 |
Well he's not a rubbish third division player.
I hope the guy is found innocent.
With my Wales fan cap on I wonder if she is lying, then she may be keeping the final piece of the jigsaw out of the Wales squad.
Ched could be a premier league player now if he had carried on scoring the way he was going. Bear in mind he was 23 when he went to prison. [Post edited 19 Nov 2014 4:33]
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Speechless, reading this post.
Have lost all respect for you. |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Ched again on 14:26 - Nov 19 with 936 views | monmouth |
| Ched again on 14:16 - Nov 19 by Starsky |
Speechless, reading this post.
Have lost all respect for you. |
It's what I would expect as a culmination to some of the other views on this thread to be honest. In some people's heads, they are better judges and juries than actual judges and juries, and then this is an entirely logical stance, based on football fan stupidity and self interest.
This is the problem with the internet, it makes folk think they are entitled to a view and that, worse, their view has any merit. |  |
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| Ched again on 14:44 - Nov 19 with 926 views | LeonisGod |
| Ched again on 11:35 - Nov 19 by acejack3065 |
He is perfectly entitled to work as a footballer. We are discussing whether football should make a moral stand against allowing a convicted rapist to return to play football.
I don't believe that he should. Our system of judicial process which has evolved over 800 years has found him guilty and until his conviction is overturned he is a convicted rapist. He has every right to appeal his conviction even though he has already lost one attempt to clear his name. If he was a decent human being he would have attempted to do this in a humble, quiet and dignified manner. Instead he has fuelled a media circus to heap pressure on an independent judicial system and has shown absolutely no consideration to his victim. His victim, for that is what she is, cannot be named for legal reasons but has been forced to leave her family in North Wales and change her name three times in a bid to get on with her life and to escape the death threats she has received since Evans was convicted two years ago.
This case has highlighted the alarming, and frankly disgusting attitudes held towards women by some football fans. Instead of discussing whether a rapist should be allowed to play and justifying that opinion, we've had people trying to bend the definition of rape to exonerate Ched Evans. If she didn't consent or was not able to consent then its rape. You can argue about that if you want but I wouldn't because if you think that if a woman is drunk then shes fair game then your're a pig.
Lets get some facts of the case? Don't even bother looking at Ched Evans own website for the truth. You wont find it there.
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans |
They can take a moral stand, but it may well be unlawful? I'm not sure on that, but the guy has every right to return to work. You're preaching to the converted on the other points.
Of course he can appeal if he believes he is innocent.
Of course people shouldn't be forced to go into hiding and the people sending death threats are bang out of order (and should be charged)
Of course if someone doesn't consent it's rape.
The problem with this case is that nobody knows whether she consented or not. As such, the judge asked the jury to decide in their view "was she in a condition in which she was capable of making any choice one way or another?". They obviously decided she was in one instance and not in the next (and in Ched's case this was contradictory to McDonald's evidence that she asked Evans to perform sexual acts on her). That's probably why there's so much discussion about this - it's a very interesting case and insight into how the judicial process works when there's barely any evidence. | | | |
| Ched again on 14:55 - Nov 19 with 909 views | LeonisGod |
| Ched again on 11:57 - Nov 19 by acejack3065 |
"On 29 May 2011 the complainant finished work shortly before midnight. She drank some alcohol, went home, showered and then went to a bar, where she arrived at just after 1.30am. She drank vodka and left at about 3am. She said that she could not recall leaving the bar. She had a vague recollection of being in a kebab shop and of a large pizza box. CCTV footage, which was recovered, showed her outside the bar, inside and outside a kebab shop, and eventually her arrival at the hotel where the offence with which the court is concerned took place. The CCTV footage showed that while she was inside the kebab shop she was unsteady on her feet, at one point she fell over and landed on the floor. On the other hand, outside the kebab shop she could be seen eating pizza from a large box, although she was also seen to stumble, squat, lose her balance, and walk unsteadily. Indeed, she left her handbag in the shop. Based on this evidence, the prosecution case was that she was very drunk
The night porter described her as "extremely drunk". That reinforced the Crown's case based on the evidence of witnesses and the CCTV footage before she had arrived at the hotel."
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans |
And?
"The written submissions also criticised selected passages in the summing-up. There were two broad complaints. Firstly, that nowhere in the summing-up was it made clear to the jury that, even if the complainant was drunk, it did not necessarily mean that she had not consented; "a drunken consent is still a consent".
Fascinating stuff isn't it? We'll never know for sure, just like the Pistorius case. | | | |
| Ched again on 00:45 - Nov 20 with 834 views | Highjack |
The incident was also supposed to have been filmed by some scummy giggling fu ckwits outside the window so I assume that was shown in evidence, perhaps that cheds light on what really happened? | |
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| Ched again on 09:00 - Nov 20 with 798 views | ItchySphincter |
The more this drags on and the more threads that are started the more the consensus seems to be that he is innocent, which may turn out to the case. I'm just astounded that our criminal justice system is in such a poor unreliable state - if the yokels are to be believed.
The sooner this review happens and he is/isn't granted an appeal the better. If it does come to pass and his conviction upheld will the rape apologists on this board accept that he is guilty then? [Post edited 20 Nov 2014 9:01]
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| Ched again on 10:31 - Nov 20 with 761 views | icecoldjack |
| Ched again on 09:00 - Nov 20 by ItchySphincter |
The more this drags on and the more threads that are started the more the consensus seems to be that he is innocent, which may turn out to the case. I'm just astounded that our criminal justice system is in such a poor unreliable state - if the yokels are to be believed.
The sooner this review happens and he is/isn't granted an appeal the better. If it does come to pass and his conviction upheld will the rape apologists on this board accept that he is guilty then? [Post edited 20 Nov 2014 9:01]
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I think we have one of the best justice systems in the world myself, but even then they get it wrong, no system is perfect and this was probably a very close call.
Somebody above mentioned video evidence? If that was used and seen by a jury then maybe there is a whole other context that we arnt privvy too ?
Anyway, ched is a scum bag IMO so fook him. |  | | |
| Ched again on 10:46 - Nov 20 with 750 views | Morfa_Same |
In my opinion the courts can never provide justice in a case like this because their options are too black and white. Either he's innocent, completely exonerated and free to go, or he's a rapist, stigmatised for life and banged up for 5 years.
Justice is somewhere in between. It would be nice if the judge had an option to jail him for 6 months plus 2 years suspended for being an arse and taking advantage of a drunk girl. His mates should have been thrown in with him too. |  | | |
| Ched again on 10:56 - Nov 20 with 732 views | Shaky |
| Ched again on 09:00 - Nov 20 by ItchySphincter |
The more this drags on and the more threads that are started the more the consensus seems to be that he is innocent, which may turn out to the case. I'm just astounded that our criminal justice system is in such a poor unreliable state - if the yokels are to be believed.
The sooner this review happens and he is/isn't granted an appeal the better. If it does come to pass and his conviction upheld will the rape apologists on this board accept that he is guilty then? [Post edited 20 Nov 2014 9:01]
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There seems to be a great deal of confusion regarding the concept of legal appeals.
In the absence of dramatic new evidence, appeals are largely technical affairs regarding points of law. In this way the applications already made for leave to appeal have also been turned down narrowly on the points of law raised.
That is to say the appeals process has not reviewed the entire case and is not required to say for example while this objection isn't a flyer, you should instead look at points of law xyz.
I think I have an idea of the technical point of law that Evans' defence team is now pursuing. Will it change my view of his guilt or innocence? Certainly not. How could an arcane technical point of law ever do that?
There are only 3 people who could possibly know whether Evans is guilty and one of those doesn't remember a thing. That's the whole bloody point! The truly alarming thing is he was convicted beyond any reasonable doubt in the first place. | |
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