| This beheading plot..... 11:33 - Nov 21 with 4140 views | Catullus |
......that was foiled by the security forces and the police, is it s sign of things to come?
IS have said they will rain death and terror on our streets. So was this the first of many terror cells who will take to the streets and attack innocent people?
I really dread to think what might happen if this comes to pass. I said on another thread that I was worried the general population would turn against all Asians, Blacks and Muslims if this happened. We could see the rivers of blood that old Enoch Powell predicted, just not for the reasons he thought. |  |
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| This beheading plot..... on 16:32 - Nov 21 with 1241 views | Davillin |
| This beheading plot..... on 15:03 - Nov 21 by controversial_jack |
How many have been caught as a result of this surveillance? Not sure of Britain , but in the US it is zero |
No-one can say "how many have been caught as a result of this surveillance . . . in the U.S."
First, the program is "secret" and to reveal their methods and successes would seriously reduce its success.
Second, our government has always kept vital information about national security very secret, and today far more than ever.
Third, our government lies to us daily, as has been more than proven over and over again.
And all of that comes from someone who believes that the unfettered level of "surveillance" in the States is not only a violation of our Constitutional rights, but an outright abomination. |  |
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| This beheading plot..... on 16:38 - Nov 21 with 1232 views | dgt73 |
| This beheading plot..... on 16:32 - Nov 21 by Davillin |
No-one can say "how many have been caught as a result of this surveillance . . . in the U.S."
First, the program is "secret" and to reveal their methods and successes would seriously reduce its success.
Second, our government has always kept vital information about national security very secret, and today far more than ever.
Third, our government lies to us daily, as has been more than proven over and over again.
And all of that comes from someone who believes that the unfettered level of "surveillance" in the States is not only a violation of our Constitutional rights, but an outright abomination. |
Why do you think the surveillance in the U.S is gathering pace?. To protect American citizens or some other reason.? |  |
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| This beheading plot..... on 16:44 - Nov 21 with 1226 views | controversial_jack |
| This beheading plot..... on 14:48 - Nov 21 by CountyJim |
Some say our Privacy is being invaded with emails checked and profiles made of us texts screened by what is clear is British intelligence Thank God they do these things IMO
And long may it carry on to keep our Country safe I have nothing to hide have you |
If you have nothing to hide, you won't mind posting all your information on here.Where you live , your name, your phone number , the content of your emails, where you work .Send us a few home videos too while you are at it | | | |
| This beheading plot..... on 17:27 - Nov 21 with 1187 views | Shonky |
I walk to work along St Helens Road each day, past the mosque and through the side streets. Since these videos came out I have found myself drifting into uneasy reveries wherein I get dragged into some random doorway and end up on youtube minus my bonce. I mean if these guys don't care what the consequences are then they can afford to be bold. They can just start dragging people off the streets. I might start walking to work a different way. |  |
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| This beheading plot..... on 17:35 - Nov 21 with 1181 views | skippyjack |
| This beheading plot..... on 15:58 - Nov 21 by Catullus |
Oh good, a conspiracy theory.
I'd bet it's a combination of luck, skill and hard work that we've had no major terrorist attacks since 7/7, unless you count Lee Rigby's murder?
IS want to cause divisions, they want us to fight amongst ourselves, we should do our fery best to deny them anything they want.
PS, Lohengrin, just what is our birthright? |
It's nothing to do with luck, skill, hardwork.. it's about bargaining power.. Abu Hamza wants more for his people.. he's a businessman as a terrorist.. if you view the world as a business.. it's a lot clearer.. politics is about business bargaining.. it's like the IRA.. the only way to deal with it.. was by bargaining... in lust for power, control, money,
corruption.. view everything as a business..
IRA = business
Political party = business
IS = business
You take a sh*t it's business
Everything everywhere is a selfish entity.. it's human nature.. to strive towards selfish success.. Oi old heads.. was it as selfish in the 50s and 60s?.. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| This beheading plot..... on 19:35 - Nov 21 with 1123 views | Davillin |
| This beheading plot..... on 16:38 - Nov 21 by dgt73 |
Why do you think the surveillance in the U.S is gathering pace?. To protect American citizens or some other reason.? |
Although I did not say that "surveillance in the U.S. is gathering pace," you are too correct.
Why?
First answer: because they can -- in the sense of getting away with it. And, to carry over from my previous post, they lie to us endlessly about both what they're doing and why they're doing it. One witness before Congress, and under oath -- the top guy in N.S.A., the intelligence/surveillance mega-octopus -- swore that they were collecting no information about American citizens, and then was irrefutably proven to have lied -- I repeat under oath and to Congress!
Second answer: although there is an element of "protecting American citizens" in this, it is not remotely necessary to go to the outrageous extent that they have been going in order to do that.
The unbelievable size and complexity of their facilities alone are not even remotely the right size for keeping tabs on international threats, and even far too large to keep tabs on every American. Planning for future increases in population.
Third answer: there is a paranoia in some quarters of our federal government about American "militias" and others who believe that Americans' freedom is being eroded -- steadily and dramatically -- who are plotting some kind of anti-government [read "revolutionary"] action. Please do not argue with me about this because there is far too much evidence of this for me to give you a more complete answer.
Why be concerned if I "have nothing to hide," the usual response? That is the typical obfuscation used to intimidate those who object.
The real answer is because it is the most intense attack on our civil rights since 1783, part of a steady power-grab by the federal government over the past century or so, and the resulting diminution by the federal government of Americans' rights. | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 19:50 - Nov 21 with 1111 views | dgt73 |
| This beheading plot..... on 19:35 - Nov 21 by Davillin |
Although I did not say that "surveillance in the U.S. is gathering pace," you are too correct.
Why?
First answer: because they can -- in the sense of getting away with it. And, to carry over from my previous post, they lie to us endlessly about both what they're doing and why they're doing it. One witness before Congress, and under oath -- the top guy in N.S.A., the intelligence/surveillance mega-octopus -- swore that they were collecting no information about American citizens, and then was irrefutably proven to have lied -- I repeat under oath and to Congress!
Second answer: although there is an element of "protecting American citizens" in this, it is not remotely necessary to go to the outrageous extent that they have been going in order to do that.
The unbelievable size and complexity of their facilities alone are not even remotely the right size for keeping tabs on international threats, and even far too large to keep tabs on every American. Planning for future increases in population.
Third answer: there is a paranoia in some quarters of our federal government about American "militias" and others who believe that Americans' freedom is being eroded -- steadily and dramatically -- who are plotting some kind of anti-government [read "revolutionary"] action. Please do not argue with me about this because there is far too much evidence of this for me to give you a more complete answer.
Why be concerned if I "have nothing to hide," the usual response? That is the typical obfuscation used to intimidate those who object.
The real answer is because it is the most intense attack on our civil rights since 1783, part of a steady power-grab by the federal government over the past century or so, and the resulting diminution by the federal government of Americans' rights. |
Thanks for that Dav. Going back to the 3rd answer you gave regarding militias, is there any realistic chance they could cause problems for the federal government. | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 20:37 - Nov 21 with 1077 views | Jack_Meoff |
Our government doesn't give two f*cks about the populace. All these new 'anti terror' measures aren't to protect the people from these f*cking bogeymen, they're about protecting financial institutions, corporations and the politicians themselves from the people. Because, slowly, people are cottoning on.
In my humble opinion like.... |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| This beheading plot..... on 20:42 - Nov 21 with 1072 views | dgt73 |
| This beheading plot..... on 20:37 - Nov 21 by Jack_Meoff |
Our government doesn't give two f*cks about the populace. All these new 'anti terror' measures aren't to protect the people from these f*cking bogeymen, they're about protecting financial institutions, corporations and the politicians themselves from the people. Because, slowly, people are cottoning on.
In my humble opinion like.... |
Great post and 100% correct.  | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 23:11 - Nov 21 with 1024 views | Davillin |
| This beheading plot..... on 19:50 - Nov 21 by dgt73 |
Thanks for that Dav. Going back to the 3rd answer you gave regarding militias, is there any realistic chance they could cause problems for the federal government. |
[My 3rd answer was "there is a paranoia in some quarters of our federal government about American "militias" and others who believe that Americans' freedom is being eroded -- steadily and dramatically -- who are plotting some kind of anti-government [read "revolutionary"] action."
You asked whether there is any realistic chance they could cause problems for the federal government.
First part: It won't be the "militias" causing problems for the federal government. It will be the federal government who will cause them, if they continue their course of "fundamentally transforming" America as Obama said was his plan.
Second part: No-one knows the true and full extend of "militias" in the States. Some are too pubic about it, while an unknown number are super-secretive. That is precisely why the intense snooping goes on -- to catch the latter out so they can be shut down before they can get into action.
The government has its eyes and ears everywhere. Bank accounts. Credit cards for purchases of every kind. Telephone calls [they say it's just who calls whom and when -- which would be more than enough to help them to identify the secret groups, and to know who has what of a military nature, but I know from my ex-wife who worked for two major telephone companies for many years, that they have an amazing number of calls recorded going back many years]. Email. Internet activity down to the smallest items [all you have to do is read media accounts of certain persons who have been arrested, and you'll see that they know every click he made and every site he visited, etc, etc, etc.]. And more. I don't know whether they have "toilet habits" in their database, but even that wouldn't surprise me that much.
No-one can hide from them except by absolute silence.
There are laws and regulations on the books that allow the President to shut down the internet, the telephone systems, and radio and television, whenever he believes it is in the security interest of the country. Who do you think this is aimed at? Me? Hardly. And that does not include secret plans for shutting us down.
[I'm still answering your question.]
Much of the outcome will depend on whether the local and state police elect to back the government or the people. Same with the armed forces. That's still an open question. One recent veteran publicly said that at that time it was about 50-50!
Last year, when the feds brought their mini-army against that rancher in Nevada, militiamen and women flocked their, armed and equipped for serious action. One of the civilians stepped up when the two sides were lined up face to face and asked the feds whether they were willing to shoot and kill American men and women.
After a surprisingly short discussion among themselves, the feds left the area.
If that is any indication, it doesn't look good for the feds. Wide open question.
If "cause problems for the federal government" means actually defeating them, there are other serious questions which will not be answered until the shooting starts. For example, competent leadership, communications, fuel and all of the other "logistical" material required, getting heavy weapons, etc. It is my considered opinion that many of the big mouths who brag about the number of guns they have, and how much ammo, will not be remotely prepared to face death -- their own first, and others a close second.
Another question is what will veterans do? If the president continues to show his displaced dislike for the military, they might be a factor. There are about 20 million vets in the U.S., about half of whom are over 65. I wouldn't count the latter out. I know more than a few of those old-timers who could still put one in your eye -- either eye. I don't know if anyone knows how many vets are armed. I wouldn't be the least surprised if it were 99%.
Did you know that the federal government's list of "terror groups" includes all veterans, believe it or not? What do they know that I don't?
If you forced me to give you a flat-out "yes" or "no," I can't be 100% certain, because of the very important variables above, but I'd have to say that they probably would because it would turn into guerrilla warfare, Some people think it will be like our own Revolutionary War, with us in guerrilla mode.
We never do well against guerrilla war. | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 23:17 - Nov 21 with 1019 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| This beheading plot..... on 17:35 - Nov 21 by skippyjack |
It's nothing to do with luck, skill, hardwork.. it's about bargaining power.. Abu Hamza wants more for his people.. he's a businessman as a terrorist.. if you view the world as a business.. it's a lot clearer.. politics is about business bargaining.. it's like the IRA.. the only way to deal with it.. was by bargaining... in lust for power, control, money,
corruption.. view everything as a business..
IRA = business
Political party = business
IS = business
You take a sh*t it's business
Everything everywhere is a selfish entity.. it's human nature.. to strive towards selfish success.. Oi old heads.. was it as selfish in the 50s and 60s?.. |
That's absolutely spot on skip fair play . |  |
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| This beheading plot..... on 07:39 - Nov 22 with 979 views | dgt73 |
| This beheading plot..... on 23:11 - Nov 21 by Davillin |
[My 3rd answer was "there is a paranoia in some quarters of our federal government about American "militias" and others who believe that Americans' freedom is being eroded -- steadily and dramatically -- who are plotting some kind of anti-government [read "revolutionary"] action."
You asked whether there is any realistic chance they could cause problems for the federal government.
First part: It won't be the "militias" causing problems for the federal government. It will be the federal government who will cause them, if they continue their course of "fundamentally transforming" America as Obama said was his plan.
Second part: No-one knows the true and full extend of "militias" in the States. Some are too pubic about it, while an unknown number are super-secretive. That is precisely why the intense snooping goes on -- to catch the latter out so they can be shut down before they can get into action.
The government has its eyes and ears everywhere. Bank accounts. Credit cards for purchases of every kind. Telephone calls [they say it's just who calls whom and when -- which would be more than enough to help them to identify the secret groups, and to know who has what of a military nature, but I know from my ex-wife who worked for two major telephone companies for many years, that they have an amazing number of calls recorded going back many years]. Email. Internet activity down to the smallest items [all you have to do is read media accounts of certain persons who have been arrested, and you'll see that they know every click he made and every site he visited, etc, etc, etc.]. And more. I don't know whether they have "toilet habits" in their database, but even that wouldn't surprise me that much.
No-one can hide from them except by absolute silence.
There are laws and regulations on the books that allow the President to shut down the internet, the telephone systems, and radio and television, whenever he believes it is in the security interest of the country. Who do you think this is aimed at? Me? Hardly. And that does not include secret plans for shutting us down.
[I'm still answering your question.]
Much of the outcome will depend on whether the local and state police elect to back the government or the people. Same with the armed forces. That's still an open question. One recent veteran publicly said that at that time it was about 50-50!
Last year, when the feds brought their mini-army against that rancher in Nevada, militiamen and women flocked their, armed and equipped for serious action. One of the civilians stepped up when the two sides were lined up face to face and asked the feds whether they were willing to shoot and kill American men and women.
After a surprisingly short discussion among themselves, the feds left the area.
If that is any indication, it doesn't look good for the feds. Wide open question.
If "cause problems for the federal government" means actually defeating them, there are other serious questions which will not be answered until the shooting starts. For example, competent leadership, communications, fuel and all of the other "logistical" material required, getting heavy weapons, etc. It is my considered opinion that many of the big mouths who brag about the number of guns they have, and how much ammo, will not be remotely prepared to face death -- their own first, and others a close second.
Another question is what will veterans do? If the president continues to show his displaced dislike for the military, they might be a factor. There are about 20 million vets in the U.S., about half of whom are over 65. I wouldn't count the latter out. I know more than a few of those old-timers who could still put one in your eye -- either eye. I don't know if anyone knows how many vets are armed. I wouldn't be the least surprised if it were 99%.
Did you know that the federal government's list of "terror groups" includes all veterans, believe it or not? What do they know that I don't?
If you forced me to give you a flat-out "yes" or "no," I can't be 100% certain, because of the very important variables above, but I'd have to say that they probably would because it would turn into guerrilla warfare, Some people think it will be like our own Revolutionary War, with us in guerrilla mode.
We never do well against guerrilla war. |
Thanks for that. Very interesting and the problem for the fed government would be your average U.S solider, if ordered to attack his own people could well turn his M-16 on the very people issuing those orders. | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 15:57 - Nov 22 with 924 views | Catullus |
| This beheading plot..... on 23:17 - Nov 21 by oh_tommy_tommy |
That's absolutely spot on skip fair play . |
Really? IS are a business, just spreading their corporate message are they? Only interested in money are they?
And there was me thinking it was a religious thing.
Either you are far too cynical (skippy too) or I am far too naive.
I'm not arguing that business, money and power are what most of it is about. But it's not all of it, and definitely not in the case of IS. Power yes, control yes, but in the cause of Islam. | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 16:08 - Nov 22 with 917 views | Davillin |
| This beheading plot..... on 07:39 - Nov 22 by dgt73 |
Thanks for that. Very interesting and the problem for the fed government would be your average U.S solider, if ordered to attack his own people could well turn his M-16 on the very people issuing those orders. |
No. American military are required to obey every "lawful" order, and the likelihood that any significant number of officers and enlisted men would obey an order to fire at Americans is remote.
Except in most extreme situations [as did happen in Viet Nam when an officer went over the line, and was "fragged"] an American soldier would simply refuse to obey such an order.
Moreover, it is extremely unlikely that an officer would order it, by refusing a superior's "unlawful' order for him to do so.
I would expect them to defend themselves if fired upon first, although that is at least debatable. | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 16:55 - Nov 23 with 876 views | Davillin |
| This beheading plot..... on 16:08 - Nov 22 by Davillin |
No. American military are required to obey every "lawful" order, and the likelihood that any significant number of officers and enlisted men would obey an order to fire at Americans is remote.
Except in most extreme situations [as did happen in Viet Nam when an officer went over the line, and was "fragged"] an American soldier would simply refuse to obey such an order.
Moreover, it is extremely unlikely that an officer would order it, by refusing a superior's "unlawful' order for him to do so.
I would expect them to defend themselves if fired upon first, although that is at least debatable. |
More to the post above.
Every U.S. state has its own "National Guard," under the command of that state's governor, but under the President when it is "called up" for duty with the federal troops -- traditionally in foreign fights.
Previously, a state's National Guard was called up by its governor whenever needed for protection of the civilian population of that state -- floods, hurricanes, etc.
We still have a posse comitatus law here. That forbids the U.S. military from acting in the States in the capacity of law enforcement.
Recently, the federal government has mandated that the Guard of one state can be called up by the president for duty in another state when the latter is experiencing civil unrest. To the under-informed, this seems benign, but anyone with vision can see that it would be called up to support the president where neither federal troops nor the local national guard may do so. Vile.
May it never come to that! | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 17:03 - Nov 23 with 794 views | perchrockjack |
eh no, American haters and lefties look for any opportunity to hammer USA and IS IS JUST ANOTHER.
Here we have people taken off a coach and asked to recite the Qu ran ;they fail to do so adequately then are beheaded. Now some fooker out there explain how that is about oil, power or any other conspiracy dross.
Its great to pontificate when its happening thousands of miles away. If IS do this near YOU ,then it ll take on another perspective | |
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| This beheading plot..... on 17:17 - Nov 23 with 788 views | dgt73 |
| This beheading plot..... on 16:55 - Nov 23 by Davillin |
More to the post above.
Every U.S. state has its own "National Guard," under the command of that state's governor, but under the President when it is "called up" for duty with the federal troops -- traditionally in foreign fights.
Previously, a state's National Guard was called up by its governor whenever needed for protection of the civilian population of that state -- floods, hurricanes, etc.
We still have a posse comitatus law here. That forbids the U.S. military from acting in the States in the capacity of law enforcement.
Recently, the federal government has mandated that the Guard of one state can be called up by the president for duty in another state when the latter is experiencing civil unrest. To the under-informed, this seems benign, but anyone with vision can see that it would be called up to support the president where neither federal troops nor the local national guard may do so. Vile.
May it never come to that! |
It's certainly isn't benign and that looks like the federal government are expecting something to happen, why else would they do it?. Very interesting Dav, keep us informed on any other developments. [Post edited 23 Nov 2014 17:23]
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| This beheading plot..... on 21:23 - Nov 23 with 759 views | C_jack |
You're assuming that it actually happened. |  |
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| This beheading plot..... on 22:33 - Nov 23 with 727 views | Jack_Meoff |
| This beheading plot..... on 21:23 - Nov 23 by C_jack |
You're assuming that it actually happened. |
Course it happened. The mainstream media said so. | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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