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Tan's financial madness revealed. 07:22 - Dec 18 with 11873 viewsNOTRAC

A story in the Western Mail this morning reveals that all legal charges covering secured debts have been paid off by Vincent Tan, thus tightening his grip of control on the Club.
These debts included historic amounts such as the PMG debt of £8.7m,Ray Hanson's debt of £2.5m and the mystery debts of Erskine Finance(registered in Tortola in the Caribbean) and Edgedale International (registered in the Virgin Islands).
It is now estimated by the Western Mail that the total monies owed to Vincent Tan has risen to £120m and that he has introduced up to £150m in total into the Club.
The club is understood to see the debt repayments as part of the owners long standing commitment to the club.
The repayment of these secured creditors was only made public yesterday, but on further reading it transpires that all these payments were made prior to the end of the previous years accounts I.e when Cardiff were in the Premiership.
It would be almost impossible therefore for Tan to ever get his money back, unless Cardiff returned to the Premiership.
Having failed so completely after the injection of such huge amounts of money, it is very unlikely that Tan would ever go down the same road and inject further substantial monies into the Club in future.
No doubt Tan now wishes that he hadn't made those payments, as even a Cardiff City spokesman said "the amount that the club owes is something they cannot afford to repay.
There is also a warning for those believing that new investors into our Club would bring additional success.
It is now clear that even introducing amounts of £100m or more guarantees nothing ,unless the Club's structure is right.

Poll: Has the Europa Cup been worth entering this year?

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:23 - Dec 18 with 1841 viewslondonlisa2001

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:20 - Dec 18 by Shaky

Sorry Lisa, you have once again failed to establish that elusive link between your lies and reality.

Why don't you instead f*ck off and stop stalking me?


I think everyone else can read unfortunately for you.

Bad luck though - can you imagine the chances of this coming out in the press only 48 hours after you told everyone that Tan's debt was unsecured...
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:35 - Dec 18 with 1801 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:23 - Dec 18 by londonlisa2001

I think everyone else can read unfortunately for you.

Bad luck though - can you imagine the chances of this coming out in the press only 48 hours after you told everyone that Tan's debt was unsecured...


What I said was I saw no evidence they were secured.

If that has morphed in your mind into "that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured" people might start to get a better understanding of the severe psychological issues you face.

Finally if they understood the nuances of secured and secure they might realise you are totally off your rocker.

Misology -- It's a bitch
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:48 - Dec 18 with 1791 viewslondonlisa2001

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:35 - Dec 18 by Shaky

What I said was I saw no evidence they were secured.

If that has morphed in your mind into "that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured" people might start to get a better understanding of the severe psychological issues you face.

Finally if they understood the nuances of secured and secure they might realise you are totally off your rocker.


you said (since you seem to have missed it 1 minute ago)

"of the debentures listed none of those held by Tan have associated charges."

And it was all the other statements that you made about debt from shareholders being unsecured that I am referring to.

Anyway - bored now. Funny though :-)
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 16:12 - Dec 18 with 1717 viewsMillJack

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:48 - Dec 18 by londonlisa2001

you said (since you seem to have missed it 1 minute ago)

"of the debentures listed none of those held by Tan have associated charges."

And it was all the other statements that you made about debt from shareholders being unsecured that I am referring to.

Anyway - bored now. Funny though :-)


My Dad's bigger that your Dad, etc, etc.

You're only now getting bored? I think the majority of the board went past that point a long time ago.

Is there any chance you could take your squabbles into PM's? That's two threads with real potential that have been bled to death in the past couple of days.
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 16:23 - Dec 18 with 1697 viewsClinton

Surely the pertinent point is that Tan CAN actually afford to say bye-bye to the GBP 100-150 million he's lost. He is a very rich man. He does not need to try and get it back.
He can afford to continue to plough in a few million each year, as long as he keeps the right side of FFP. He might even get lucky with the next manager after Slade.
TBH he seems a fundamentally decent man, if somewhat vindictive when he finds someone with their hand in his wallet.
The only thing that might stop him is if his assets are mainly denominated in the Malaysian Ringgit. The Ringgit is suffering along with other emerging market currencies at the moment. On the other hand if he has substantial dollar assets, he'll be doing all right. He'll easily be able to continue to chuck a few million in petty cash into Legoland.

If you can fill the unforgiving minute. With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 17:45 - Dec 18 with 1618 viewsGlyn1

Calm down children and play nicely - it's the season of good will to all men (and Lisa).

One of many things that I've never understood is why any investor would buy a Championship side to gamble on promotion when there are Premier League clubs that are already up for sale - Everton, Hull and Villa are three of them and there are probably others.

Poll: Who should be our next manager? Please name them.

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 17:48 - Dec 18 with 1614 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 16:23 - Dec 18 by Clinton

Surely the pertinent point is that Tan CAN actually afford to say bye-bye to the GBP 100-150 million he's lost. He is a very rich man. He does not need to try and get it back.
He can afford to continue to plough in a few million each year, as long as he keeps the right side of FFP. He might even get lucky with the next manager after Slade.
TBH he seems a fundamentally decent man, if somewhat vindictive when he finds someone with their hand in his wallet.
The only thing that might stop him is if his assets are mainly denominated in the Malaysian Ringgit. The Ringgit is suffering along with other emerging market currencies at the moment. On the other hand if he has substantial dollar assets, he'll be doing all right. He'll easily be able to continue to chuck a few million in petty cash into Legoland.


Tan CAN afford to say bye-bye to the money - although I'd suggest it's a sizeable amount of his reported net worth.

Thing is, there aren't many "rich" people who like to write off those kind of sums - Qataris aside.

Next manager after Slade? Look at the points per game under Slade, he's done a decent job without assembling his own squad. Don't write his obituary yet.

We've a first team squad of 38. That desparately needs addressing, I see players being offloaded even if their contracts have to be bought out with a potential increase in priority for the Academy / free agents over paying transfer fees.

I don't see Tan going anytime soon, expect financial cuts to get the finances more under control with Tan having an eye on lowering debt to sell the club on.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 17:53 - Dec 18 with 1594 viewsShaky

What is the feeling in the fanbase for the chances of bouncing straight back this season, reddy?

FWIW, I feel if it doesn't happen he might be inclined to try to cut his losses over the summer.

Misology -- It's a bitch
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:19 - Dec 18 with 1565 viewsMusical_Swan

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 17:48 - Dec 18 by reddythered

Tan CAN afford to say bye-bye to the money - although I'd suggest it's a sizeable amount of his reported net worth.

Thing is, there aren't many "rich" people who like to write off those kind of sums - Qataris aside.

Next manager after Slade? Look at the points per game under Slade, he's done a decent job without assembling his own squad. Don't write his obituary yet.

We've a first team squad of 38. That desparately needs addressing, I see players being offloaded even if their contracts have to be bought out with a potential increase in priority for the Academy / free agents over paying transfer fees.

I don't see Tan going anytime soon, expect financial cuts to get the finances more under control with Tan having an eye on lowering debt to sell the club on.


Do you not think that more backlash from your lot towards Tan may persuade him to run your club into the ground though Reddy?

He seems vindictive enough to do it, and I'd be worried this #NoBlueNoRenew campaign may push him over the edge.

Huw Jenkins... Nuff said!
Poll: On the whole, are the board doing a good job with our club?

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:32 - Dec 18 with 1546 viewsTim_Harry

Looks to me as though he's sticking around for the parachute payments, while at the same time cutting costs as much as possible. Employing a lower league journeyman of a manager and cutting squad numbers seems to be the right way to about that.

Best not to throw good money after bad aiming for the Premier League dream I suppose. Better just to salvage what you can and leave a broken club behind.

Damage limitation.
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:40 - Dec 18 with 1533 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 17:53 - Dec 18 by Shaky

What is the feeling in the fanbase for the chances of bouncing straight back this season, reddy?

FWIW, I feel if it doesn't happen he might be inclined to try to cut his losses over the summer.


I'd suggest the fanbase view changes based upon results each week tbh.

Slade's points record has been decent enough, good enough to be up there. Can't see any team really dominating the league in the way a Newcastle did so can't see why we've not got as good a chance as anyone else.

The problem is, you've several "strands" of the fanbase.

- CCMB readers, mostly left leaning, more prone to navel gazing, reading the Guardian and pontificating in a waffling p***-poor WSC style.
- AAMB readers, who make UKIP look left wing, plenty of whining about foreigners along with hypocritical approaches - ie Hammam great, Tan evil despite Hammam wanting to bring Wimbledon to Cardiff and kill us off years ago. Oh, and banned by numerous multi-accounts if you don't toe the party line
- Overwhelming majority of fans who don't avidly and blindly follow message boards, just want to see football and are generally not that interested in who owns the club.

The latter group are the overwhelming majority, something the former groups ignore in the interests of feeling self-important. That's why the Trust will always fail with us because smugly championing themselves as "representing fans" rather than the reality of representing their members fails when 96% of the fanbase have zero interest in the Trust

But I digress.

How much time Tan would give the club to get back to the Prem and thus be more sellable is something nobody would seem to know. Certainly cuts are being made - tellingly, it seem the Academy appears to be immune from that from what mates involved have been saying. I fully suspect the days of the bigger fees/wages are over with Slade in to mastermind a transition to looking for more "bargains" from lower divisions.

The benefit for me by going that route is that if promotion does happen, finances should be better under control. Ditto if promotion doesn't occur as long as the team is competitive.

I suspect if we don't go back up he'd be looking to sell, sure. I'd be amazed if he wouldn't be looking for a figure that minimizes losses - ie plucking a figure out of my arse, a loss of say 20m. Changes at the club I'd believe would be made to help minimise losses when selling the club.

The problem is that we'll always have non-local owners. Those businessmen with money are either eggers who despise football or ex pats with no interest in football.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:40 - Dec 18 with 1532 viewsGowerjack

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:23 - Dec 18 by perchrockjack

good post yma.Makes one think.


Yma's posts are always good

Definate canidate for POTY in my opinion

Plastic since 1974
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:43 - Dec 18 with 1528 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:19 - Dec 18 by Musical_Swan

Do you not think that more backlash from your lot towards Tan may persuade him to run your club into the ground though Reddy?

He seems vindictive enough to do it, and I'd be worried this #NoBlueNoRenew campaign may push him over the edge.


#NoBlueRenew?

#PromoteAndYoullBeBack more like.

People spectacularly ignore one thing about STs for next season. The 5 year price freeze ends.

Those not renewing purely because of the rebrand would already have done so. Those *claiming* not to be renewing - which will be higher than those *actually* not renewing - will be more due to finances and lack of Prem football than anything else.

Run the club into the ground? People with serious money tend to view money seriously. Tan may well be spiteful, to the extent of losing 120m+? Can't see it personally.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:46 - Dec 18 with 1526 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:32 - Dec 18 by Tim_Harry

Looks to me as though he's sticking around for the parachute payments, while at the same time cutting costs as much as possible. Employing a lower league journeyman of a manager and cutting squad numbers seems to be the right way to about that.

Best not to throw good money after bad aiming for the Premier League dream I suppose. Better just to salvage what you can and leave a broken club behind.

Damage limitation.


Well, costs need to be cut. Anyone claiming otherwise is in serious denial.

As I said, 38 first teamers, many on decent wages who will never play. That's something we need to do irrespective of who owns the club.

I just suspect Tan is cutting costs with a view on best covering the scenarios of promoting and not promoting.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:48 - Dec 18 with 1522 viewsGowerjack

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:07 - Dec 18 by Shaky

Show me where I said "that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured" LyingLisa and I will never post on this board again.


Lisa

Go for it girl !


Plastic since 1974
Poll: Is ECB for tyranny?

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 19:25 - Dec 18 with 1488 viewsMusical_Swan

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:43 - Dec 18 by reddythered

#NoBlueRenew?

#PromoteAndYoullBeBack more like.

People spectacularly ignore one thing about STs for next season. The 5 year price freeze ends.

Those not renewing purely because of the rebrand would already have done so. Those *claiming* not to be renewing - which will be higher than those *actually* not renewing - will be more due to finances and lack of Prem football than anything else.

Run the club into the ground? People with serious money tend to view money seriously. Tan may well be spiteful, to the extent of losing 120m+? Can't see it personally.


Sorry, by run the club into the ground I meant strip it of all assets to recoup some of his losses before getting rid.

So is your opinion that this campaign is a load of hot air? TBH that was my opinion after reading Anus' board the other day. (He really is an embarrassment to your club btw.)

You seem level headed enough, what's your personal view regarding Tan? (Apologies in advance as I'm sure you've probably had to answer this more than once already.)

Huw Jenkins... Nuff said!
Poll: On the whole, are the board doing a good job with our club?

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 20:01 - Dec 18 with 1455 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 19:25 - Dec 18 by Musical_Swan

Sorry, by run the club into the ground I meant strip it of all assets to recoup some of his losses before getting rid.

So is your opinion that this campaign is a load of hot air? TBH that was my opinion after reading Anus' board the other day. (He really is an embarrassment to your club btw.)

You seem level headed enough, what's your personal view regarding Tan? (Apologies in advance as I'm sure you've probably had to answer this more than once already.)


Most of the campaigns are hot air.

Organise a boycott of the FA Cup game.

Yup, boycott a game against Colchester which is on the TV and would have had an 8k attendance anyway.

It's been easy to damn Tan. Media love the "evil foreigner" angle, after all. Mackay and Moody were feeding them info. Indeed, can't recall many of the media apologising and accepting Tan was right to fire Mackay after the texts emrged.

My view of Tan is he's someone who was brought into it by Tien Ghee. Saw it as an opprotunity to invest and make a profit selling club on, establishing in Prem. Knew his football knowledge was poor, so trusted the managers - they were certainly backed.

I'm guessing his eyes are now open, costs being cut accordingly which in my opinion should have been the case in the first case.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 20:13 - Dec 18 with 1429 viewsKilkennyjack

its Glasgow Rangers 2 ..... Tick tock, tick tock.....booooommmmm...!

Beware of the Risen People

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 20:53 - Dec 18 with 1396 viewsMusical_Swan

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 20:01 - Dec 18 by reddythered

Most of the campaigns are hot air.

Organise a boycott of the FA Cup game.

Yup, boycott a game against Colchester which is on the TV and would have had an 8k attendance anyway.

It's been easy to damn Tan. Media love the "evil foreigner" angle, after all. Mackay and Moody were feeding them info. Indeed, can't recall many of the media apologising and accepting Tan was right to fire Mackay after the texts emrged.

My view of Tan is he's someone who was brought into it by Tien Ghee. Saw it as an opprotunity to invest and make a profit selling club on, establishing in Prem. Knew his football knowledge was poor, so trusted the managers - they were certainly backed.

I'm guessing his eyes are now open, costs being cut accordingly which in my opinion should have been the case in the first case.


Unfortunately running a football club is essentially 'a diiferent beast' when compared to running most businesses. You're ony likely to turn a 'quick' profit at the expense of the club.

Do you think that Vinnie will look to get out soon? Or do you think he will stay and see his project through?

Huw Jenkins... Nuff said!
Poll: On the whole, are the board doing a good job with our club?

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 21:28 - Dec 18 with 1359 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 20:53 - Dec 18 by Musical_Swan

Unfortunately running a football club is essentially 'a diiferent beast' when compared to running most businesses. You're ony likely to turn a 'quick' profit at the expense of the club.

Do you think that Vinnie will look to get out soon? Or do you think he will stay and see his project through?


Yeah, I don't think he necessarily saw a quick return. Get up - stay up would probably have been as quick a return as possible in terms of sell on value imo.

I don't see Tan necessarily actively wanting to can things right now. It's all well and good wanting him out but can't sell unless there's a buyer. I'd say certainly medium term, unless a large amount of cash is waved under his nose, he'll stay. Finances would certainly need to be worked upon in that case, cut our cloth accordingly etc. Which imo should have been done a long time ago. Indeed, if the Academy can be effective then longer term that could be of benefit.

I just don't see him rage quitting because of the actions of a minority, costing himself 100m+ in the process.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 02:01 - Dec 19 with 1283 viewsJJJack

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 18:40 - Dec 18 by reddythered

I'd suggest the fanbase view changes based upon results each week tbh.

Slade's points record has been decent enough, good enough to be up there. Can't see any team really dominating the league in the way a Newcastle did so can't see why we've not got as good a chance as anyone else.

The problem is, you've several "strands" of the fanbase.

- CCMB readers, mostly left leaning, more prone to navel gazing, reading the Guardian and pontificating in a waffling p***-poor WSC style.
- AAMB readers, who make UKIP look left wing, plenty of whining about foreigners along with hypocritical approaches - ie Hammam great, Tan evil despite Hammam wanting to bring Wimbledon to Cardiff and kill us off years ago. Oh, and banned by numerous multi-accounts if you don't toe the party line
- Overwhelming majority of fans who don't avidly and blindly follow message boards, just want to see football and are generally not that interested in who owns the club.

The latter group are the overwhelming majority, something the former groups ignore in the interests of feeling self-important. That's why the Trust will always fail with us because smugly championing themselves as "representing fans" rather than the reality of representing their members fails when 96% of the fanbase have zero interest in the Trust

But I digress.

How much time Tan would give the club to get back to the Prem and thus be more sellable is something nobody would seem to know. Certainly cuts are being made - tellingly, it seem the Academy appears to be immune from that from what mates involved have been saying. I fully suspect the days of the bigger fees/wages are over with Slade in to mastermind a transition to looking for more "bargains" from lower divisions.

The benefit for me by going that route is that if promotion does happen, finances should be better under control. Ditto if promotion doesn't occur as long as the team is competitive.

I suspect if we don't go back up he'd be looking to sell, sure. I'd be amazed if he wouldn't be looking for a figure that minimizes losses - ie plucking a figure out of my arse, a loss of say 20m. Changes at the club I'd believe would be made to help minimise losses when selling the club.

The problem is that we'll always have non-local owners. Those businessmen with money are either eggers who despise football or ex pats with no interest in football.


Great post....sums up my opinions on Cardiff fans based on what I read/hear. Considering you have around the same number of supporters as us (I don't want to get into that argument as it's unprovable either way) what is noticeable is that you get a few hundred on here who post but on CCMB and AAMB there are so many more,,,,,usually spouting endless drivel and generally undermining your club whilst simultaneoulsy failing to achieve anything/add anything.
As for Tan....he's got no chance of selling CCFC in the next , say, 2yrs. No chance at all. UNLESS he he's prepared to take a HUGE hit....tens of millions. Who the hell would buy your club for more than say £30-40m even before we start talking about debt owed to Tan, hugely-inflated staff and player costs and rapidly decreasing income. Compare CCFC to Leeds or Sheff Wed.....look at the problems they've had/still have and they;re far bigger clubs.
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 09:36 - Dec 19 with 1242 viewsMusical_Swan

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 21:28 - Dec 18 by reddythered

Yeah, I don't think he necessarily saw a quick return. Get up - stay up would probably have been as quick a return as possible in terms of sell on value imo.

I don't see Tan necessarily actively wanting to can things right now. It's all well and good wanting him out but can't sell unless there's a buyer. I'd say certainly medium term, unless a large amount of cash is waved under his nose, he'll stay. Finances would certainly need to be worked upon in that case, cut our cloth accordingly etc. Which imo should have been done a long time ago. Indeed, if the Academy can be effective then longer term that could be of benefit.

I just don't see him rage quitting because of the actions of a minority, costing himself 100m+ in the process.


Cheers Reddy. It's nice to find a Cardiff fan I can actually discuss this with sensibly. I was actually quite worried for your club when Tan started spouting about the rebrand, but from my viewpoint, the reaction of the majority of the fans in accepting it with open arms just led me to say 'fck em!'

You didn't need to see the future to predict this was going to happen, and as Tans rebrand idea started growing the promise of PL football was enough to persuade the following that it was acceptable. Of course, when your PL campaign failed, the s##t hit the f(T)an.

I can't imagine what it must be like for somebody like yourself watching your club rip itself apart simply because a portion of your fans are behaving like spoilt teenagers. I wish I was as confident as you that Tan won't cut and run.

Anyway, haven't said this to a Cardiff fan in a while, but good luck!

Huw Jenkins... Nuff said!
Poll: On the whole, are the board doing a good job with our club?

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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:19 - Dec 19 with 1215 viewsacejack3065

Just join us reddy, it will all be easier if you just join us.

I have always wondered if Tan would actually just walk away from the investment if fans got nasty with him. I personally assumed that he wouldn't and that he was just posturing to give himself an easier time of it with the fans.

I'm expecting this hashtag campaign to go the way of Bluebirds Unite fairly quickly, even more so if the decent home form continues!
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 11:09 - Dec 19 with 1194 viewsScoobyDoo

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 09:36 - Dec 19 by Musical_Swan

Cheers Reddy. It's nice to find a Cardiff fan I can actually discuss this with sensibly. I was actually quite worried for your club when Tan started spouting about the rebrand, but from my viewpoint, the reaction of the majority of the fans in accepting it with open arms just led me to say 'fck em!'

You didn't need to see the future to predict this was going to happen, and as Tans rebrand idea started growing the promise of PL football was enough to persuade the following that it was acceptable. Of course, when your PL campaign failed, the s##t hit the f(T)an.

I can't imagine what it must be like for somebody like yourself watching your club rip itself apart simply because a portion of your fans are behaving like spoilt teenagers. I wish I was as confident as you that Tan won't cut and run.

Anyway, haven't said this to a Cardiff fan in a while, but good luck!


Must admit i agree with most of what Reddy has posted apart from the little snipe at the Trust, admittedly i am not a member of the Trust but have full admiration of people that are democratically trying to do something positive for the fan base, although Tan not willing to meet with elected supporters groups is frustrating to say the least.
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Tan's financial madness revealed. on 11:41 - Dec 19 with 1176 viewsacejack3065

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 11:09 - Dec 19 by ScoobyDoo

Must admit i agree with most of what Reddy has posted apart from the little snipe at the Trust, admittedly i am not a member of the Trust but have full admiration of people that are democratically trying to do something positive for the fan base, although Tan not willing to meet with elected supporters groups is frustrating to say the least.


Strong Supporters Trusts are what every football club needs but I can't help but think Tan has no reason to meet with the Cardiff Supporters Trust when at this time they lack real legitimacy.

If like-minded supporters like yourself joined the trust then it would have more clout in holding Tan to account.

I'd always supported our trust but was not a member until this year. I joined to make sure that the Trust had my full support in protecting us with the foreign investment looming!
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