Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Tan's financial madness revealed. 07:22 - Dec 18 with 11874 viewsNOTRAC

A story in the Western Mail this morning reveals that all legal charges covering secured debts have been paid off by Vincent Tan, thus tightening his grip of control on the Club.
These debts included historic amounts such as the PMG debt of £8.7m,Ray Hanson's debt of £2.5m and the mystery debts of Erskine Finance(registered in Tortola in the Caribbean) and Edgedale International (registered in the Virgin Islands).
It is now estimated by the Western Mail that the total monies owed to Vincent Tan has risen to £120m and that he has introduced up to £150m in total into the Club.
The club is understood to see the debt repayments as part of the owners long standing commitment to the club.
The repayment of these secured creditors was only made public yesterday, but on further reading it transpires that all these payments were made prior to the end of the previous years accounts I.e when Cardiff were in the Premiership.
It would be almost impossible therefore for Tan to ever get his money back, unless Cardiff returned to the Premiership.
Having failed so completely after the injection of such huge amounts of money, it is very unlikely that Tan would ever go down the same road and inject further substantial monies into the Club in future.
No doubt Tan now wishes that he hadn't made those payments, as even a Cardiff City spokesman said "the amount that the club owes is something they cannot afford to repay.
There is also a warning for those believing that new investors into our Club would bring additional success.
It is now clear that even introducing amounts of £100m or more guarantees nothing ,unless the Club's structure is right.

Poll: Has the Europa Cup been worth entering this year?

5
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:10 - Dec 18 with 5371 viewsUxbridge

Just goes to show the value of a stable set of shareholders and directors at the helm of any club. I do hope if there is any change at SCFC that those seeking to cash out ensure through proper due diligence regarding the buyers and putting protections in place so that such a scenario couldn't happen in the future under any new owners ...

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

2
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:34 - Dec 18 with 5319 viewsmonmouth

What IS he up to with that shower of sh1t? he clearly does not have a long term commitment - why would he? - and he isn't a fool, even though he sometimes acts like one, so how will he cash out? Is it all on a hope that they will make it back this season? he's gambled £150m on Russell Slade.....actually...he is probably just a fool.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:36 - Dec 18 with 5307 viewsreddythered

Club spokesman didn't make the claim, it was a Trust representative who said that.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:43 - Dec 18 with 5285 viewsUxbridge

It's never about the club repaying it though. Although, if they sink and have no realistic prospect of reaching the dizzy heights of 20th in the PL again, then he'll at least get some back by liquidating the club.

Blog: Whose money is it anyway?

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:44 - Dec 18 with 5283 viewsMillie

Can't see them getting out of it, obviously Tan would like to sell but who's going to buy the club? He'll cut his losses soon surely
0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 11:57 - Dec 18 with 5140 viewsCatullus

I said some time back that I believed Tan must have been very lucky, had a lot of help and/or inherited a lot of his wealth.
Either that or he has developed some kind of mental condition in the last few years. He clearly has no idea of how to run a football club (and there are plenty of those types about) but even worse, he is making decisions that actually seem to be steering them towards disaster!!
Other people who have ruined football clubs have feathered their own nests, but he seems to be just throwing his own money down the drain!!

How long do CCFC carry on like this and what happens if he walks away?

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:21 - Dec 18 with 5091 viewsymaohyd

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 11:57 - Dec 18 by Catullus

I said some time back that I believed Tan must have been very lucky, had a lot of help and/or inherited a lot of his wealth.
Either that or he has developed some kind of mental condition in the last few years. He clearly has no idea of how to run a football club (and there are plenty of those types about) but even worse, he is making decisions that actually seem to be steering them towards disaster!!
Other people who have ruined football clubs have feathered their own nests, but he seems to be just throwing his own money down the drain!!

How long do CCFC carry on like this and what happens if he walks away?


Indeed.

It is often the case that entrepreneurs, who have made a fortune for themselves in their respective businesses all of a sudden lose sight of the fundamental practices that enabled them to make their fortunes to start with. Perhaps even with all that wealth, a child lies inside all of us and the opportunity to own a football club prevails over all common sense.

As for the Swans, I know little of the fine details of the ownership of the club, however two points.

1. I can't see any logical reason for an investor to get involved unless they have complete control.

2. Am I right in thinking that the present shareholders would make a fortune through the sale of the club? If so, do supporters expect these shareholders not to sell, when in a years time, if the club got relegated they could kiss goodbye to a fortune?

Sorry, but I know what I would do and that would be to sell.

Blog: World Cup Performance = Transfer Speculation?

2
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:23 - Dec 18 with 5076 viewsperchrockjack

good post yma.Makes one think.

Poll: Who has left Wales and why

1
Login to get fewer ads

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:37 - Dec 18 with 5036 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 10:34 - Dec 18 by monmouth

What IS he up to with that shower of sh1t? he clearly does not have a long term commitment - why would he? - and he isn't a fool, even though he sometimes acts like one, so how will he cash out? Is it all on a hope that they will make it back this season? he's gambled £150m on Russell Slade.....actually...he is probably just a fool.


Gambled £150 million?

You're veering dangerously off message with the Team W@nk line here, sonny.

Don't you realise that gambling implies risk capital equals equity?

Instead he is a secured creditor which is completely different, because secured sounds almost the same as secure which means his debt to the club is safe as houses.

Remind me to take a look at the accounts when they come out early in the new year so we may all marvel at how precisely secure Tan's debt investment is.

Misology -- It's a bitch
Poll: Greatest PS Troll Hunter of all time

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:46 - Dec 18 with 5016 viewsCatullus

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:37 - Dec 18 by Shaky

Gambled £150 million?

You're veering dangerously off message with the Team W@nk line here, sonny.

Don't you realise that gambling implies risk capital equals equity?

Instead he is a secured creditor which is completely different, because secured sounds almost the same as secure which means his debt to the club is safe as houses.

Remind me to take a look at the accounts when they come out early in the new year so we may all marvel at how precisely secure Tan's debt investment is.


Well yes the debt is secure, his problem is he has absolutely no way of getting all his money back. Even if they come back to the Premier, it will take a long time to make financial headway, and involve further investment!
That he will get some is not in doubt, but if he cashes in with a fire sale then CCFC will plummet and more than likely end up in a CVA. That will lead to a points deduction and probably another relegation.
They are in an even worse position than Portsmouth. It's possible the club would go under entirely and have to start anew, like Rangers.
That much predicted point in time, the demise of Cardiff City, appears to be edging ever closer. Failure to be promoted this season could mean the boom has finished and bust is just around the corner.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:52 - Dec 18 with 4993 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:46 - Dec 18 by Catullus

Well yes the debt is secure, his problem is he has absolutely no way of getting all his money back. Even if they come back to the Premier, it will take a long time to make financial headway, and involve further investment!
That he will get some is not in doubt, but if he cashes in with a fire sale then CCFC will plummet and more than likely end up in a CVA. That will lead to a points deduction and probably another relegation.
They are in an even worse position than Portsmouth. It's possible the club would go under entirely and have to start anew, like Rangers.
That much predicted point in time, the demise of Cardiff City, appears to be edging ever closer. Failure to be promoted this season could mean the boom has finished and bust is just around the corner.


No Catullus, the debt is most certainly not secure, because there is nowhere near sufficient asset backing in the company to pay it off. The cash he put in has all been spunked.

And the critical fact is that if he did exercise his creditor's right to put the company into administration, he would be foreclosing on himself as the owner. In other words his only available nuclear sanction is to detonate one right above his own head.

Misology -- It's a bitch
Poll: Greatest PS Troll Hunter of all time

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:05 - Dec 18 with 4951 viewsQuakerJack

lesson learnt - no foreign investment!

Poll: Some scummer on the anus board reckons 80% of us want them to go down. so... do

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:07 - Dec 18 with 4947 viewsCatullus

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:52 - Dec 18 by Shaky

No Catullus, the debt is most certainly not secure, because there is nowhere near sufficient asset backing in the company to pay it off. The cash he put in has all been spunked.

And the critical fact is that if he did exercise his creditor's right to put the company into administration, he would be foreclosing on himself as the owner. In other words his only available nuclear sanction is to detonate one right above his own head.


The debt is secure in as much as they will have to pay it. The only question is how much can be repaid, if any at all!! Which was the point.
Cardiff's long term future looks increasingly........well, Shaky!!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Poll: Offended by what Brynmill J and Controversial J post on the Ukraine thread?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:14 - Dec 18 with 4921 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:07 - Dec 18 by Catullus

The debt is secure in as much as they will have to pay it. The only question is how much can be repaid, if any at all!! Which was the point.
Cardiff's long term future looks increasingly........well, Shaky!!


I'm sorry but you don't understand.

The club has an obligation to repay, but if they haven't got the money they can't. Therefore the debt is not secure, even though it may be technically 'secured'.

The accounts appear to come out early Jan so when they are available I'll do a quick analysis to figure out roughly how many pence in the pound might be available, although obviously the club has likely continued to hemorrhage cash since the date the accounts were made up to.

Misology -- It's a bitch
Poll: Greatest PS Troll Hunter of all time

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:37 - Dec 18 with 4873 viewssomersetsimon

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:14 - Dec 18 by Shaky

I'm sorry but you don't understand.

The club has an obligation to repay, but if they haven't got the money they can't. Therefore the debt is not secure, even though it may be technically 'secured'.

The accounts appear to come out early Jan so when they are available I'll do a quick analysis to figure out roughly how many pence in the pound might be available, although obviously the club has likely continued to hemorrhage cash since the date the accounts were made up to.


I've never really understood Tan's investment in the club. I couldn't ever see that, even with an extended stay in the PL, that they would generate enough income for him to get a return, or get to a point where they would be valued highly enough for someone else to buy the club off him.
0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:48 - Dec 18 with 4833 viewsymaohyd

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:05 - Dec 18 by QuakerJack

lesson learnt - no foreign investment!


You can't say that though!

How on earth can you blame the present board members for wanting to earn themselves a fortune?!

In an ideal world we'll carry on as we are now. However the board have invested in facilities, the club are a valuable PL concern so how people expect them not to earn millions from their good fortune is beyond me. They didn't sell as soon as we got to the Prem. They invested in the club and have made all the right moves.

They would be mad not to get out now. It's all well and gone having banners etc etc, would us as supporters turn our backs on a fortune, I certainly wouldn't.

I'm sure the board will want to sell to the right people, the Swans however, will always be a tough sell to an international investor, that may be our saving grace from ensuring that we aren't sold.

Blog: World Cup Performance = Transfer Speculation?

1
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:49 - Dec 18 with 4827 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:37 - Dec 18 by somersetsimon

I've never really understood Tan's investment in the club. I couldn't ever see that, even with an extended stay in the PL, that they would generate enough income for him to get a return, or get to a point where they would be valued highly enough for someone else to buy the club off him.


i think he underestimated how much it would take to get into the prem, and obviously then crapped out on his first throw of the dice sending them straight back down.

I believe there is room for one major internationally recognised club to emerge in Wales over the next 10 years or so, but Tan has probably now blown his chances of that being Cardiff.

Misology -- It's a bitch
Poll: Greatest PS Troll Hunter of all time

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:54 - Dec 18 with 4809 viewsperchrockjack

Impressive stuff shaky. I ve no idea how accurate you are but you make out Cardiff to be a basket case...nice

Poll: Who has left Wales and why

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:55 - Dec 18 with 4816 viewsreddythered

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:49 - Dec 18 by Shaky

i think he underestimated how much it would take to get into the prem, and obviously then crapped out on his first throw of the dice sending them straight back down.

I believe there is room for one major internationally recognised club to emerge in Wales over the next 10 years or so, but Tan has probably now blown his chances of that being Cardiff.


I suspect Tan is now having the club run on a leaner basis. 38 man first team squad? Sod that. I suspect the wage bill will be driven down a fair bit with player offers listened to.

Poll: 94th minute; Medel does Charlie Adam, causing a career ending injury. Do you..

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:03 - Dec 18 with 4793 viewslondonlisa2001

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:07 - Dec 18 by Catullus

The debt is secure in as much as they will have to pay it. The only question is how much can be repaid, if any at all!! Which was the point.
Cardiff's long term future looks increasingly........well, Shaky!!


Don't bother - he doesn't understand.

Two days ago he was saying that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured.

Even I couldn't have imagined that only 48 hours after I gave Cardiff as an example of that being the case, this would come out in the press. I even listed the debt that had charges over it - which he denied, but oh look - the papers now say that the debt had charges over it.
0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:05 - Dec 18 with 4789 viewslondonlisa2001

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 13:14 - Dec 18 by Shaky

I'm sorry but you don't understand.

The club has an obligation to repay, but if they haven't got the money they can't. Therefore the debt is not secure, even though it may be technically 'secured'.

The accounts appear to come out early Jan so when they are available I'll do a quick analysis to figure out roughly how many pence in the pound might be available, although obviously the club has likely continued to hemorrhage cash since the date the accounts were made up to.


how many pence in the pound to who though?

You understand I would imagine, that there won't be a set % ?
0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:07 - Dec 18 with 4780 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:03 - Dec 18 by londonlisa2001

Don't bother - he doesn't understand.

Two days ago he was saying that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured.

Even I couldn't have imagined that only 48 hours after I gave Cardiff as an example of that being the case, this would come out in the press. I even listed the debt that had charges over it - which he denied, but oh look - the papers now say that the debt had charges over it.


Show me where I said "that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured" LyingLisa and I will never post on this board again.

Misology -- It's a bitch
Poll: Greatest PS Troll Hunter of all time

0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:08 - Dec 18 with 4779 viewslondonlisa2001

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 12:37 - Dec 18 by Shaky

Gambled £150 million?

You're veering dangerously off message with the Team W@nk line here, sonny.

Don't you realise that gambling implies risk capital equals equity?

Instead he is a secured creditor which is completely different, because secured sounds almost the same as secure which means his debt to the club is safe as houses.

Remind me to take a look at the accounts when they come out early in the new year so we may all marvel at how precisely secure Tan's debt investment is.


who said anything about it being safe as houses?

Twisting again I see, to try to cover up your previous assertion that a shareholder couldn't provide secured debt.

zzzzzzzz
0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:18 - Dec 18 with 4744 viewslondonlisa2001

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:07 - Dec 18 by Shaky

Show me where I said "that debt from a shareholder couldn't be secured" LyingLisa and I will never post on this board again.


"it is technically incorrect to talk about this as debt. The correct term is subordinated debt or shareholders' loan. This is a critical distinction because this type of financial instrument has properties of both debt and equity, which is why is is often referred to as quasi-equity by experts like me."

"I've never heard of a shareholders loan that isn't subordinated"

"500 words of waffle and not a single mention of a shareholder loan that isn't subordinated."

"of the debentures listed none of those held by Tan have associated charges."

"However, you have to register charges, and for the debentures held by Tan no associated charges are shown. QED, surely."

"For good measure, I guess it is possible that Tan has somehow provided mortgage financing to Cardiff. But firstly I have not seen any evidence of that"

"if you mention the term shareholder loan amongst people who know what they are talking about in the context of long term financing, the default assumption is that it will be subordinated."


Bye bye...
0
Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:20 - Dec 18 with 4738 viewsShaky

Tan's financial madness revealed. on 14:18 - Dec 18 by londonlisa2001

"it is technically incorrect to talk about this as debt. The correct term is subordinated debt or shareholders' loan. This is a critical distinction because this type of financial instrument has properties of both debt and equity, which is why is is often referred to as quasi-equity by experts like me."

"I've never heard of a shareholders loan that isn't subordinated"

"500 words of waffle and not a single mention of a shareholder loan that isn't subordinated."

"of the debentures listed none of those held by Tan have associated charges."

"However, you have to register charges, and for the debentures held by Tan no associated charges are shown. QED, surely."

"For good measure, I guess it is possible that Tan has somehow provided mortgage financing to Cardiff. But firstly I have not seen any evidence of that"

"if you mention the term shareholder loan amongst people who know what they are talking about in the context of long term financing, the default assumption is that it will be subordinated."


Bye bye...


Sorry Lisa, you have once again failed to establish that elusive link between your lies and reality.

Why don't you instead f*ck off and stop stalking me?

Misology -- It's a bitch
Poll: Greatest PS Troll Hunter of all time

0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© FansNetwork 2024