| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done 13:38 - Dec 21 with 7293 views | _ |
Where are we with all this?
Over the last few months we have been drip fed very worrying and alarming news. In fact, only a relatively short period of time ago a thread started by Westx who had suggested potential American "investment" was met with complete disbelief and derision.
Most of us, apart from the odd [legitimate] gripe here and there were happy plodding on, with what we all now to a certain degree feel is our right - to be challenging the best teams in the land and world on a level footing and getting massive credit and plaudits for doing so.
We have always been the club that did things differently. In fairness, there wasn't a lot else we could have done, we didn't have the resources to splash out big and apart from the odd, relatively small, directors loan, we lived within our means.
I am not going to go trawling through the net to find Jenkins' sound bites of which they would be by the barrow full on our prudent and careful fiscal strategy. Suffice to say the Directors of SCFC were and still are very proud of what they have achieved. Even more suffice to say is that we, as fans, say and feel the same.
There is a big white elephant in the room however, at Swansea City FC, literally in Board meetings at the club, and that is us - Yep, pretty much every single one of us, because not just for the sake of the usual cliche trollied out that no club can survive without its fans, it was literally the case with us. Yes, "us", like Kevin Johns stated at Wembley three years ago.... THIS IS "OUR" DAY!!!
It was as things turned out but it's always been "our" club. For years and years we spent in the lower leagues and no matter where we were or whenever that was, if I or your good selves had to talk about the Swans with anyone we'd meet, it was always with a very matter of fact and passionate royal "we"!!
Who is "we" they may have asked and even more proudly responded with Swansea City FC the greatest team in football.... And yep, this was actually meant, even though we may have been fifteenth in Division 4 at the time.
Owners and chairmen have come and gone but still we stuck by our club. For years and years we did not have a pot to piss in and whatever money the club did get coming in nobody really could be sure if it was being accounted for totally in the best interests of the football club.
The very same Directors and Chairman who sit on our Board today would have been the very same to have questioned the motives of anyone that is in the privileged position of being the guardians of our local club.
When Petty was ousted and the never before seen events ensued with the rallying call of the Jack Army and Tesco bags full of used notes, bucket after bucket loads of hard earned coins and more than a little enterprise and endeavour, everyone swore at the time to never again be in a position like we were back then.
The football history since then is just too magical to actually believe it happened to us all. The same people among us now, the same faces I have seen over 30 years plus in varying different market towns, shitty stadiums, service stations etc, who still do and who always will, refer to us with the royal "we", well we now say it with even more vigour and belief and look, we told you all back then we were the greatest team in football and we weren't lying!!!
So let's get things very clear because I am not a fans leader and have never wanted to be one, no matter what some want to accuse me of. I am a dyed in the wool Jack and bearing in mind a home game for me was 25 miles away, I have more than earned a right to speak out in a public forum if I feel standards are slipping and we are potentially slipping back to old and dangerous ways.
Has anyone learned anything about the club in the last few weeks?
Maybe that the club is actually only 50/50 away from being sold from underneath us?
Or maybe how we have certain individuals who are more than tied into the club on a personal level when perhaps it's just not good practice to be in that conflicting of interests position?
That our Directors' businesses have been paid huge amounts for work they must have invoiced the club for?
When and how Leigh bought his shares in the club and whether that was indeed the darkest hour of the Trust and whether or not lessons were learned from it?
I will meet Leigh as he's apparently asked to meet me, not because he's singled me out as a fans leader, more probably in light of the above questions I have been asking on a public forum. A public forum on the club we all love and a chance to spread more transparency to a wider audience so we can all discuss the matters and issues we are raising.
I have no doubt Leigh Dineen is a good bloke at heart. I don't agree with what he did when he bought his shares but he has told me nothing sinister happened which of course at this moment in time I believe. I don't agree with his defensiveness when fans have legitimate concerns about the department he runs and I don't think he comes out and apologises when mistakes clearly happen and cost us.
I also feel the Trust have not really gone into battle for the fans and I also strongly believe the second largest shareholder has the weakest voice in board meetings - and yes, that's us the fans. I also don't like the idea of our current supporters director having a personal business interest in winning tenders as I don't honestly feel that is fair on him or us,
I would like our club to remain a part of us but from now, an even bigger part of us. Like I said a few days ago - look to Germany not America!
The Premier Legue money due to us every year is just as much ours as theirs.
Do not let some foreign money man come in to our club and take all this away from us.
Leigh, get ready with some honest answers and look me in the eye when doing so.
SCFC - ONE LOVE
[Post edited 21 Dec 2014 13:50]
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| The Future, The on 13:46 - Dec 21 with 2781 views | Jackfath |
I think he may be meeting you as it could be a case of "keep your friends close, your enemies closer still"
Good luck in your quest, whatever it is. [Post edited 21 Dec 2014 13:47]
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 13:49 - Dec 21 with 2774 views | Pegojack |
I for one will be interested to hear the outcome of this meeting, assuming you and he agree that it can be reported back.
While you are there Chrissy, will you please ask him for his response to my idea, posted on another of the recent mega threads, that each shareholder contributes free of charge a portion of their shares (pro rata to their holding) to the Supporters Trust, sufficient to take it's overall holding to 51%.
I expect the answer will be some variation on "feck off, you must be barmy", but it would be interesting to hear it from the horse's mouth. |  | | |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 13:51 - Dec 21 with 2757 views | _ |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 13:49 - Dec 21 by Pegojack |
I for one will be interested to hear the outcome of this meeting, assuming you and he agree that it can be reported back.
While you are there Chrissy, will you please ask him for his response to my idea, posted on another of the recent mega threads, that each shareholder contributes free of charge a portion of their shares (pro rata to their holding) to the Supporters Trust, sufficient to take it's overall holding to 51%.
I expect the answer will be some variation on "feck off, you must be barmy", but it would be interesting to hear it from the horse's mouth. |
Yes Mike definiteky. | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 14:13 - Dec 21 with 2682 views | perchrockjack |
It's better to watch his back. |  |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 14:16 - Dec 21 with 2678 views | _ |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 14:13 - Dec 21 by perchrockjack |
It's better to watch his back. |
He can watch his back and we can watch ours.
That's fair to say don't you agree? | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 15:43 - Dec 21 with 2602 views | _ |
So just to highlight this extract from the above before the meet....
"""Has anyone learned anything about the club in the last few weeks?
Maybe that the club is actually only 50/50 away from being sold from underneath us?
Or maybe how we have certain individuals who are more than tied into the club on a personal level when perhaps it's just not good practice to be in that conflicting of interests position?
That our Directors' businesses have been paid huge amounts for work they must have invoiced the club for?
When and how Leigh bought his shares in the club and whether that was indeed the darkest hour of the Trust and whether or not lessons were learned from it?""" | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 16:02 - Dec 21 with 2562 views | ScoobyWho |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 13:49 - Dec 21 by Pegojack |
I for one will be interested to hear the outcome of this meeting, assuming you and he agree that it can be reported back.
While you are there Chrissy, will you please ask him for his response to my idea, posted on another of the recent mega threads, that each shareholder contributes free of charge a portion of their shares (pro rata to their holding) to the Supporters Trust, sufficient to take it's overall holding to 51%.
I expect the answer will be some variation on "feck off, you must be barmy", but it would be interesting to hear it from the horse's mouth. |
Hasn't it already been clearly explained that no board member will meet with people individually to discuss trust matters, and there are forums for this already ? Surely this will only be a personal discussion about this persons obsession with Leigh Dineen as a board member. |  |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 16:04 - Dec 21 with 2551 views | jackonicko |
Good luck tomorrow.
Before you go, I suggest you remind yourself of this.
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/20906/the-egos-have-lande
I'm in no way saying this is the same thing, but if you follow Tony Davies on Twitter you'll see he's never quite got over the way he had the wool pulled over his eyes by Petty. All you will hear tomorrow is one person's perspective. There are many different versions of the truth :) |  | | |
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| The Future, The on 16:09 - Dec 21 with 2528 views | ScoobyWho |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 16:04 - Dec 21 by jackonicko |
Good luck tomorrow.
Before you go, I suggest you remind yourself of this.
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/20906/the-egos-have-lande
I'm in no way saying this is the same thing, but if you follow Tony Davies on Twitter you'll see he's never quite got over the way he had the wool pulled over his eyes by Petty. All you will hear tomorrow is one person's perspective. There are many different versions of the truth :) |
Are we talking about 'Jack to a King' again ?
Ps - cracking find that link. [Post edited 21 Dec 2014 16:11]
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| The Future, The on 17:08 - Dec 21 with 2427 views | NeiltheTaylor |
My alarm first went off when we found out that Mel Nurse's shares had been bought and dissolved. The Trust is telling us we will get to make a decision when the time is right on this shares transfer, but I don't remember them informng the Trust membership abut anything to do with Mel's. The "right time" was after everything had been competed and the SWEP was reporting on it.
I in fact still know nothing of any of the discussions, how the decision was made, who set the price, how the price was set, if the shares were offered to the Trust for purchase etc. etc.
This leaves me no confidence that the Trust will be able to get this one right either. Hope springs eternal though...
Good luck with getting any kind of useful answer to anything out of Dineen. [Post edited 21 Dec 2014 17:13]
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| Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:11 - Dec 21 with 2417 views | Neath_Jack |
| The Future, The on 17:08 - Dec 21 by NeiltheTaylor |
My alarm first went off when we found out that Mel Nurse's shares had been bought and dissolved. The Trust is telling us we will get to make a decision when the time is right on this shares transfer, but I don't remember them informng the Trust membership abut anything to do with Mel's. The "right time" was after everything had been competed and the SWEP was reporting on it.
I in fact still know nothing of any of the discussions, how the decision was made, who set the price, how the price was set, if the shares were offered to the Trust for purchase etc. etc.
This leaves me no confidence that the Trust will be able to get this one right either. Hope springs eternal though...
Good luck with getting any kind of useful answer to anything out of Dineen. [Post edited 21 Dec 2014 17:13]
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The Trust didn't inform anyone of this particular "investment" either. It was over this forum way before the trust made an announcement. |  |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:24 - Dec 21 with 2370 views | NOTRAC |
The Mel Nurse share sale was either a lost opportunity for the Trust ,or more likely an indication that the Trust were never going to be allowed to acquire the amount needed to seriously affect the future opportunities for the other shareholders.
Never fully explained to my mind, and well worth enquiring further into. | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:31 - Dec 21 with 2348 views | _ |
I think critical and important questions are being asked of the Trust and its influence, or lack of it, within the club and its general usefulness to the fans they represent ?
All the questions that are now coming forward would almost be impossible to ask or get right in a fans forum.
This is the best way for all fans of Swansea City to address any concerns we have and get these questions answered, no matter how sensitive they are.
The Trust hierarchy have become too close with the club to have any great influence. It's all well and good having a friendly working relationship but not where you win no battles whatsoever on behalf of your members. | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:35 - Dec 21 with 2334 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:31 - Dec 21 by _ |
I think critical and important questions are being asked of the Trust and its influence, or lack of it, within the club and its general usefulness to the fans they represent ?
All the questions that are now coming forward would almost be impossible to ask or get right in a fans forum.
This is the best way for all fans of Swansea City to address any concerns we have and get these questions answered, no matter how sensitive they are.
The Trust hierarchy have become too close with the club to have any great influence. It's all well and good having a friendly working relationship but not where you win no battles whatsoever on behalf of your members. |
"The Trust hierarchy have become too close with the club to have any great influence. It's all well and good having a friendly working relationship but not where you win no battles whatsoever on behalf of your members."
How can you know that? How can you know that the upper echelons of the Trust are too close and has little influence? This is surely just an assumption you've made? |  |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:39 - Dec 21 with 2313 views | _ |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:35 - Dec 21 by exiledclaseboy |
"The Trust hierarchy have become too close with the club to have any great influence. It's all well and good having a friendly working relationship but not where you win no battles whatsoever on behalf of your members."
How can you know that? How can you know that the upper echelons of the Trust are too close and has little influence? This is surely just an assumption you've made? |
Yes, ok, let me state that again.
That is very much my personal opinion on this. It's what I feel and you are right, I don't know this for sure, but I sure as think it to be true.
What are your personal feelings on that? | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:40 - Dec 21 with 2310 views | Uxbridge |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:35 - Dec 21 by exiledclaseboy |
"The Trust hierarchy have become too close with the club to have any great influence. It's all well and good having a friendly working relationship but not where you win no battles whatsoever on behalf of your members."
How can you know that? How can you know that the upper echelons of the Trust are too close and has little influence? This is surely just an assumption you've made? |
It's also completely and utterly wrong. Which, again, would have been quite clear to anyone attending the recent forum. I might have mentioned that before. |  |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:45 - Dec 21 with 2281 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:39 - Dec 21 by _ |
Yes, ok, let me state that again.
That is very much my personal opinion on this. It's what I feel and you are right, I don't know this for sure, but I sure as think it to be true.
What are your personal feelings on that? |
From the little I know about the work of the Trust I absolutely do not agree with you that they are too close to the club and carry very little influence. My view is that the Trust is now more important than ever and we should all be throwing our collective weight behind its efforts, which I'd imagine are being carried out behind closed doors out of necessity at this point. I believe that your current crusade has raised some very pertinent questions which do require answers but not in the manner that you've raised them.
The Trust's problem is with communication (or the lack of it) and I've said that many times. That lack of communication breeds speculation and resentment and they need to sort it out and sort it out now. | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:45 - Dec 21 with 2280 views | _ |
So has anyone got a brief timescale on when shares were bought and sold and how and who they were offered to?
Leigh has told me he had already bought shares whilst he was a Supporters Director. He said the shares were available to many and that one of the shareholders didn't buy his until 2004 which rarely gets mentioned. Leigh stated he bought his shares well before 2006.
Were any new shares bought or exchanged after Leigh bought his and before Mel sold his? Who bought Mel's shares and why? Were they available to anyone, the Trust for example? | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:46 - Dec 21 with 2278 views | jackonicko |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:40 - Dec 21 by Uxbridge |
It's also completely and utterly wrong. Which, again, would have been quite clear to anyone attending the recent forum. I might have mentioned that before. |
I must have dreamt that Londom forum too :) | | | |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:50 - Dec 21 with 2259 views | Uxbridge |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:46 - Dec 21 by jackonicko |
I must have dreamt that Londom forum too :) |
Maybe they put something in that Gower Gold. It would explain a lot ... | |
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:52 - Dec 21 with 2242 views | jackonicko |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:45 - Dec 21 by _ |
So has anyone got a brief timescale on when shares were bought and sold and how and who they were offered to?
Leigh has told me he had already bought shares whilst he was a Supporters Director. He said the shares were available to many and that one of the shareholders didn't buy his until 2004 which rarely gets mentioned. Leigh stated he bought his shares well before 2006.
Were any new shares bought or exchanged after Leigh bought his and before Mel sold his? Who bought Mel's shares and why? Were they available to anyone, the Trust for example? |
All good questions for tomorrow.
I can check his answers against mine :) | | | |
| The Future, The on 17:54 - Dec 21 with 2235 views | Shaky |
| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 17:40 - Dec 21 by Uxbridge |
It's also completely and utterly wrong. Which, again, would have been quite clear to anyone attending the recent forum. I might have mentioned that before. |
Here's a novel ideal for you: why don't you for once depart from your stock in trade inference cum innuendo and make a positive statement or two.
What is that you will no doubt be wondering?
That means completing the statement "It's also completely and utterly wrong" with "because example x/y/z".
In other words try to find some substance in yourself -- I'm waiting with bated breadth. |  |
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| The Future, The on 17:57 - Dec 21 with 2217 views | NeiltheTaylor |
It would be nice to know a timescale on the current sell off too. Obviously the "Investors" will want in before the lovely new PL lolly comes in. Are we still in initial discussions or are e final details on closing being worked on?
I don't know if Jackinoko or anyone has a basic version of the steps on this kind of deal so we can measure against it? When does the PL pay out its money anyway? summer? That'll probably be the "timeline" to closing if so. They're probably carving out who gets what from that payday right now. [Post edited 21 Dec 2014 18:04]
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| Joe_bradshaw -I thought the cryochamber was the new name for Cardiff's stadium.
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| The Future, The "Investment", The Trust & Raising Awareness-My work here is done on 18:04 - Dec 21 with 2164 views | Shaky |
| The Future, The on 17:57 - Dec 21 by NeiltheTaylor |
It would be nice to know a timescale on the current sell off too. Obviously the "Investors" will want in before the lovely new PL lolly comes in. Are we still in initial discussions or are e final details on closing being worked on?
I don't know if Jackinoko or anyone has a basic version of the steps on this kind of deal so we can measure against it? When does the PL pay out its money anyway? summer? That'll probably be the "timeline" to closing if so. They're probably carving out who gets what from that payday right now. [Post edited 21 Dec 2014 18:04]
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The clock starts when the offer is announced. The first closing date is likely to be 21 days later, with the option to extend the offer period depending on the level of acceptances received. | |
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| The Future, The on 18:05 - Dec 21 with 2159 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Future, The on 17:54 - Dec 21 by Shaky |
Here's a novel ideal for you: why don't you for once depart from your stock in trade inference cum innuendo and make a positive statement or two.
What is that you will no doubt be wondering?
That means completing the statement "It's also completely and utterly wrong" with "because example x/y/z".
In other words try to find some substance in yourself -- I'm waiting with bated breadth. |
I see the diplomacy course you attended with Warwick and T2C has started to reap its rewards Sir Shake  |  |
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