| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 10:08 - Jan 9 with 5619 views | Phil_S |
Something Spratty wrote at the end of his post was: -
"Let us do everything in our power to get the mass of Supporters registered as full members. Let the full board do everything in their power to facilitate this or let it be clearly known that they are blocking it. "
Guys, as a Trust board we number less than 20. 20,000 people will watch tomorrow's game. Even without personal matchday commitments we cannot spread this word to many.
If everyone who believes fans should be members then spread the word amongst your mates and people around you tomorrow.
I'm not sure of the stats how many people have seen the Q&A but print a copy, show some people and point them in the direction of the pod or our website to get them to join. |  | |  |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 10:21 - Jan 9 with 5607 views | johnlangy |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 22:32 - Jan 8 by sixpenses |
Least we forget…….
THIS IS NOT AN INVESTMENT — IT IS A PRIVATE SALE
- In which the multi millions £ proceeds will be pocketed by the individual shareholders
- The club will not see a penny of that money
- The buyers will expect to recoup those multi millions and many more from our club (even though it has not had a penny from the sale). It would not otherwise be worth their trouble
End Game: In order to maximise their control and thus control financial dealings it would be hard to envisage a situation where shareholders with such a history would not want to gain a controlling interest in the club (not difficult targeting individuals to sell more shares if the price is right) which would then put them in a position to dilute shares and effectively oust the Trust. In any event with such a controlling interest the Trust could become more of a puppet for the Board than it already is, given the new shareholders have no allegiance except profit.
There are a number of fronts on which we can and should fight this and this is most effectively done before any offer is made (by which time positions will be entrenched). |
I understand what you've written but have just one question. Where is the profit ?
Suppose the new shareholders DO manage to gain a controlling interest in the Club. As things stand the Club is making about £10-15 m profit each year which is reinvested (apart from divis the last few years). The way we've survived is by investing that profit wisely, partly in the team, partly in infrastructure. If they raid that profit they risk the Club being relegated and their £50 m plus investment is wasted. Perhaps they know of a way we could be more profitable either through increased gate money with an expanded stadium (which would involve a real investment over and above their share purchase) or in sponsorship. But there's a limit to how far we can go in those respects.
And they couldn't do what the Glazers did at Man U for example. As far as I understand it they (Glazers) bought Man U for around £700 m and dumped their debt on the Club, knowing that the Club's huge world wide income could service that debt. And then they just carried on removing millions from the Club in directors fees for their efforts. We are not like that. We are not in the Man U league for profit. I realise the investment would not be in the same league either but the logic is there.
So what could they do ? Genuine question. I really don't yet understand where their reasoning is. Unless they really are philanthropists
John  |  | | |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:30 - Jan 9 with 5581 views | Uxbridge |
Income goes up (TV rights), value goes up, selling price goes up. |  |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:30 - Jan 9 with 5581 views | NOTRAC |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 10:21 - Jan 9 by johnlangy |
I understand what you've written but have just one question. Where is the profit ?
Suppose the new shareholders DO manage to gain a controlling interest in the Club. As things stand the Club is making about £10-15 m profit each year which is reinvested (apart from divis the last few years). The way we've survived is by investing that profit wisely, partly in the team, partly in infrastructure. If they raid that profit they risk the Club being relegated and their £50 m plus investment is wasted. Perhaps they know of a way we could be more profitable either through increased gate money with an expanded stadium (which would involve a real investment over and above their share purchase) or in sponsorship. But there's a limit to how far we can go in those respects.
And they couldn't do what the Glazers did at Man U for example. As far as I understand it they (Glazers) bought Man U for around £700 m and dumped their debt on the Club, knowing that the Club's huge world wide income could service that debt. And then they just carried on removing millions from the Club in directors fees for their efforts. We are not like that. We are not in the Man U league for profit. I realise the investment would not be in the same league either but the logic is there.
So what could they do ? Genuine question. I really don't yet understand where their reasoning is. Unless they really are philanthropists
John |
I don't think we appreciate how fast football is developing in America.
The Premiership League is the most watched league in in the world and could expand both in America, Asia,including China and India as well as Russia.
It may well be that the league as we know it will change dramatically with matches played in those countries and even expanding to incude teams from those countries
Any entrepreneur worth his salt would like a bit of that action, and to be involved with or have control of ,one of the present twenty premiership clubs must be worth a gamble,especially one that is debt free and unlikely to be relegated in the near future.. | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:39 - Jan 9 with 5571 views | wetjack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:30 - Jan 9 by NOTRAC |
I don't think we appreciate how fast football is developing in America.
The Premiership League is the most watched league in in the world and could expand both in America, Asia,including China and India as well as Russia.
It may well be that the league as we know it will change dramatically with matches played in those countries and even expanding to incude teams from those countries
Any entrepreneur worth his salt would like a bit of that action, and to be involved with or have control of ,one of the present twenty premiership clubs must be worth a gamble,especially one that is debt free and unlikely to be relegated in the near future.. |
Sounds like Mr Morgan is waivering over his desire to sell some of the shares
And he was the one vocally saying that the Trust should sell too
tch | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 19:03 - Jan 9 with 5503 views | longlostjack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:30 - Jan 9 by NOTRAC |
I don't think we appreciate how fast football is developing in America.
The Premiership League is the most watched league in in the world and could expand both in America, Asia,including China and India as well as Russia.
It may well be that the league as we know it will change dramatically with matches played in those countries and even expanding to incude teams from those countries
Any entrepreneur worth his salt would like a bit of that action, and to be involved with or have control of ,one of the present twenty premiership clubs must be worth a gamble,especially one that is debt free and unlikely to be relegated in the near future.. |
Exciting markets indeed - and can well understand an investor wanting a bit of the action " being involved " may be OK - if money was brought into the club at a better rate than could be had on the commercial market - but would that be possible without ultimately "having control". I very much doubt it. |  |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 20:05 - Jan 9 with 5484 views | Nookiejack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 19:03 - Jan 9 by longlostjack |
Exciting markets indeed - and can well understand an investor wanting a bit of the action " being involved " may be OK - if money was brought into the club at a better rate than could be had on the commercial market - but would that be possible without ultimately "having control". I very much doubt it. |
Re: 'having control'
If I was investing £30m for 30% - it would be a necessity for me to negotiate an option agreement (in a scenario like this = private company) to take control at a later stage. Say an option to pay £30-£40m for 45% (so no-one could block me - by special resolutions (75% required) in the future) - over next few years.
Why I would require this is that as the club is a private company and not listed on a stock market - the shares are illiquid. I can't sell them next day or when I want - I have to wait until another investor comes along.
Also if I only had 30% of the shares would not have Board control to declare a dividend - so couldn't get my money out through the dividend route. My £30m would be effectively locked in - with no way of getting it out.
Hence the Yank's must be negotiating an option take control over next few years. I can't believe the Yank will be purchasing £30m worth of shares - without an exit route that the Yank can control.
Once the Yank takes control can sell assets (players, securitise season ticket sales, etc) to get Yank's money out.
Take a look at what Oyston has done at Blackpool - with the TV rights money and the parachute payments.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2611556/Blackpool-exclusive-Cl
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/blackpool/10992919/Blackpool-hav
I don't think the Yank's want to asset strip - but as soon as we have one bad season? | | | |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:18 - Jan 14 with 5079 views | Dewi1jack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 20:05 - Jan 9 by Nookiejack |
Re: 'having control'
If I was investing £30m for 30% - it would be a necessity for me to negotiate an option agreement (in a scenario like this = private company) to take control at a later stage. Say an option to pay £30-£40m for 45% (so no-one could block me - by special resolutions (75% required) in the future) - over next few years.
Why I would require this is that as the club is a private company and not listed on a stock market - the shares are illiquid. I can't sell them next day or when I want - I have to wait until another investor comes along.
Also if I only had 30% of the shares would not have Board control to declare a dividend - so couldn't get my money out through the dividend route. My £30m would be effectively locked in - with no way of getting it out.
Hence the Yank's must be negotiating an option take control over next few years. I can't believe the Yank will be purchasing £30m worth of shares - without an exit route that the Yank can control.
Once the Yank takes control can sell assets (players, securitise season ticket sales, etc) to get Yank's money out.
Take a look at what Oyston has done at Blackpool - with the TV rights money and the parachute payments.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2611556/Blackpool-exclusive-Cl
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/blackpool/10992919/Blackpool-hav
I don't think the Yank's want to asset strip - but as soon as we have one bad season? |
As far as I know, the Oystens passed the "fit and proper persons test."
So did the owners of Portsmouth, Cardiff, Leeds etc (this could end up as a very long list)
"Beware of Greeks (or in this case, Americans) bearing gifts" seems to be the watch phrase at the mo.
I fully understand if the present shareholders want to sell out, to ensure their family are provided for, for their lives.
But please, stop treating us like mugs (investment) and tell the truth. The only up front investment is in your bank account
You will find most fans would have a bit more respect for you.
And in the mean time, we need as many as possible to join the trust, in case we ever do have a bad season and need to fight back (again) |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:16 - Jan 20 with 4674 views | Lord_Bony |
I still wish I d bought the club for a pound when I had the chance...
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 22:22 - Jan 24 with 4436 views | BobJack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 11:16 - Jan 20 by Lord_Bony |
I still wish I d bought the club for a pound when I had the chance...
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Whats funny about that ? | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 16:06 - Jan 29 with 3791 views | judgejonevs |
Just signed back up |  |
| Life is too short !!!!!!!!! Swansea til I die........... |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 08:07 - Jan 30 with 3675 views | DJack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 16:06 - Jan 29 by judgejonevs |
Just signed back up |
...What the Trust or this board, you've been MIA. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 13:51 - Feb 1 with 3468 views | MoscowJack |
There's NO way that the Americans aren't interested in less than 75%-80% of ownership.....and preferably 100%....eventually. The initial money they will pay out won't go anywhere near the club so the only way the club will "benefit" will be by getting a cheap debt option.
I wouldn't plan on them being overly generous to the Trust and allowing them the same ride that the current owners do - for example, could they expect/demand that the Trust matches "investment" pro-rata and therefore squeeze the Trust out?
Let's not forget that the new PL TV rights sums will be announced this week. If, as expected, they rise 30% then that's something the Americans will be interested in.
Would our existing owners/shareholders consider this when calculating our value or is our value only based on whatever anyone out there is willing to offer?
One thing that's clear is that certain Diretors are desperate not to miss this opportunity to become extremely wealthy - the main issue (for me) is whether they care what the deal does for the safety of the future of the club.
Ps why do people on here think NOTRAC is the voice (on here) of Martin Morgan? Just curious as I haven't been able to keep up with all the threads over the past few weeks. | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 15:34 - Feb 1 with 3446 views | NOTRAC |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 13:51 - Feb 1 by MoscowJack |
There's NO way that the Americans aren't interested in less than 75%-80% of ownership.....and preferably 100%....eventually. The initial money they will pay out won't go anywhere near the club so the only way the club will "benefit" will be by getting a cheap debt option.
I wouldn't plan on them being overly generous to the Trust and allowing them the same ride that the current owners do - for example, could they expect/demand that the Trust matches "investment" pro-rata and therefore squeeze the Trust out?
Let's not forget that the new PL TV rights sums will be announced this week. If, as expected, they rise 30% then that's something the Americans will be interested in.
Would our existing owners/shareholders consider this when calculating our value or is our value only based on whatever anyone out there is willing to offer?
One thing that's clear is that certain Diretors are desperate not to miss this opportunity to become extremely wealthy - the main issue (for me) is whether they care what the deal does for the safety of the future of the club.
Ps why do people on here think NOTRAC is the voice (on here) of Martin Morgan? Just curious as I haven't been able to keep up with all the threads over the past few weeks. |
I've been wondering that for a long time,Moscow Jack. | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 15:53 - Feb 1 with 3439 views | MoscowJack |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 15:34 - Feb 1 by NOTRAC |
I've been wondering that for a long time,Moscow Jack. |
Do you have any idea why? I've seen it mentioned a few times but I haven't seen you question it. | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 18:24 - Feb 1 with 3403 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 15:53 - Feb 1 by MoscowJack |
Do you have any idea why? I've seen it mentioned a few times but I haven't seen you question it. |
Because he is. it's great fun spotting the lapdogs of certain people. | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 18:49 - Feb 1 with 3389 views | jackonicko |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 15:34 - Feb 1 by NOTRAC |
I've been wondering that for a long time,Moscow Jack. |
If it quacks like a duck...
Nailed. On. |  | | |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 21:36 - Feb 1 with 3333 views | judgejonevs |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 08:07 - Jan 30 by DJack |
...What the Trust or this board, you've been MIA. |
The trust lol, never got round to re-joining, the importance gets lost the more successful we become when in truth the opposite could be true. As for this board far too much testosterone on here presently, good debate and discussion gone out the window. | |
| Life is too short !!!!!!!!! Swansea til I die........... |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 22:33 - Feb 1 with 3305 views | Pacemaker |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 21:36 - Feb 1 by judgejonevs |
The trust lol, never got round to re-joining, the importance gets lost the more successful we become when in truth the opposite could be true. As for this board far too much testosterone on here presently, good debate and discussion gone out the window. |
If you read some of the spiteful bile on the JA site from the usual suspects it only highlights the need for people to join the trust to ensure a democratic decision if and when a vote is needed. |  |
| Life is an adventure or nothing at all. |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:50 - Feb 2 with 3197 views | tomdickharry |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 18:24 - Feb 1 by Uxbridge |
Because he is. it's great fun spotting the lapdogs of certain people. |
Where is the evidence? | | | |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:51 - Feb 2 with 3193 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:50 - Feb 2 by tomdickharry |
Where is the evidence? |
Some things are self evident Ed.
It's also quite entertaining seeing the comments some people make and then seemingly randomly timed EP articles. It almost seems like a very poorly planned campaign. | |
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| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:59 - Feb 2 with 3190 views | whiterock |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:51 - Feb 2 by Uxbridge |
Some things are self evident Ed.
It's also quite entertaining seeing the comments some people make and then seemingly randomly timed EP articles. It almost seems like a very poorly planned campaign. |
The EP regurgitated an old story and got everyone spitting feathers, come on Vincent, take a leaf out of your pal Wathans lead and at least be original. | | | |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 10:10 - Feb 2 with 3179 views | tomdickharry |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:51 - Feb 2 by Uxbridge |
Some things are self evident Ed.
It's also quite entertaining seeing the comments some people make and then seemingly randomly timed EP articles. It almost seems like a very poorly planned campaign. |
Overruled | | | |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 09:43 - Feb 10 with 2710 views | LeonisGod |
| Swans Trust Q&A on potential new Shareholders in Swansea City Football Club on 13:51 - Feb 1 by MoscowJack |
There's NO way that the Americans aren't interested in less than 75%-80% of ownership.....and preferably 100%....eventually. The initial money they will pay out won't go anywhere near the club so the only way the club will "benefit" will be by getting a cheap debt option.
I wouldn't plan on them being overly generous to the Trust and allowing them the same ride that the current owners do - for example, could they expect/demand that the Trust matches "investment" pro-rata and therefore squeeze the Trust out?
Let's not forget that the new PL TV rights sums will be announced this week. If, as expected, they rise 30% then that's something the Americans will be interested in.
Would our existing owners/shareholders consider this when calculating our value or is our value only based on whatever anyone out there is willing to offer?
One thing that's clear is that certain Diretors are desperate not to miss this opportunity to become extremely wealthy - the main issue (for me) is whether they care what the deal does for the safety of the future of the club.
Ps why do people on here think NOTRAC is the voice (on here) of Martin Morgan? Just curious as I haven't been able to keep up with all the threads over the past few weeks. |
Of course they care about securing the future of the club. How can anyone say otherwise given everything they have and still are putting into it?
I'd hate to see this place if we genuinely had an owner/board who were either rubbish at their job or selling us down the swanny. I bet nobody here would be happy with the likes of Ashley, Lerner, Tan, the Oystons, the Venkys.........the list goes on and on and on.....
Our structure is the envy of most, to the point that they even made a film about it! |  | | |
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